Awful news!
My thoughts are with the victims and their families.
|
They'd announced earlier that they were not extending the state of emergency after late July, which has been in place since the Paris attacks.
Cowardly, if it is an attack.
|
My folks, both OAPs are very late home from France. They report a very heavy police presence at the Eurostar terminal in Lille. They are frequent travelers and this is the largest police presence that they have seen.
Everyone and everything is being searched.
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 14 Jul 16 at 23:33
|
70+ dead from this. A terrible day.
We have family in the south of France (living) and used to live in Nice. I hope they were not there for Bastille celebrations. I will find out more in the morning!
|
|
I was in Nice last year I so regconise a lot of the places. A truly awful and such a simple attack it is rather worrying. I feel really sorry for the people of Nice, and I really hope some of the wonderful and helpful locals I met last year were not injured or killed by this.
|
Of course it is awful and terrible nothing could be worse to be killed and maimed for the rest of your live.
There is no answer is there.The French authorities don't know how to stop these attacks and protect the people of France.
It only needs a small minority in any society that if they want to cause harm they can.Maybe the only answer is to clear the good with the bad of terrorist attacks.Or stop military involvement by the French trying to beat a enemy they can't beat.
|
>> .The French authorities don't know how to stop these attacks
They don't know how to stop these attacks AND remain politically correct at the same time.
|
|
How can you protect against someone driving an HGV into crowds? Political correctness doesn't come into it.
|
Anyone who cites 'political correctness' has lost the argument. Always.
France has a problem with its large, urban minority of North African origin, which is less well integrated than the UK's and feels disenfranchised. This makes it (a) easier for terrorist organisations to find disaffected individuals to recruit, and (b) harder for the French intelligence services to get the information they need to counter this activity. It's a social, political and economic problem, and 'political correctness' has nothing to do with it.
Horrible incident but, as with the 9/11 hijacks, unlikely to be repeatable. Steel posts at the ends of areas of road used for public gatherings like this should be enough to keep vehicles out and prevent another attack of this type.
|
>> How can you protect against someone driving an HGV into crowds?
The driver was known to police! Could have been kept inside jail or tagged or watched further but possibly police decided not to do anything to avoid political incorrectness.
Also I find it strange that there were so many bullet holes in the windscreen yet not one in direct line of the driver's vision. How come police missed so many shots?
Last edited by: movilogo on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 10:53
|
>> >> The driver was known to police! Could have been kept inside jail or tagged or
>> watched further but possibly police decided not to do anything to avoid political incorrectness.
>>
>> >>
There are more people "Known to police" than there are police.
|
|
Assuming you have the authority, what would be your game plan to prevent these kind of attacks?
|
|
Movilogo. Because it's not like Hollywood?
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 11:06
|
I'm not sure you can keep people locked up just because they are "known to police" can you?
Constable Savage comes to mind... www.youtube.com/watch?v=teSPN8sVbFU
|
I am shocked and saddened what has happened in the French city of Nice.
Who in their right mind could do something like this.
It is purely shocking.
|
The French are the least politically correct people that I know.
They even call white people who moved from Africa "pied noir" to their faces.
They can also be very anti Semitic.
|
I can second that, zippy, having worked with them for a decade and a half and, with reference also to WillDeBeest's posting above, North Africans (including those French citizens from Algeria) were made to feel unwelcome from the start. The tin shack bidonville ghettos of those areas were replaced by the same thing in a new form in the HLM (cheap rent) "hot outer suburbs" of Paris.
|
>> I can second that, zippy, having worked with them for a decade and a half
>> and, with reference also to WillDeBeest's posting above, North Africans (including those French citizens from
>> Algeria) were made to feel unwelcome from the start. The tin shack bidonville ghettos of
>> those areas were replaced by the same thing in a new form in the HLM
>> (cheap rent) "hot outer suburbs" of Paris.
>>
>>
>>
I have seen this in action. It isn't pleasant.
I have also been in meetings in France where everyone could speak English and would insist that I struggled on in broken French - very annoying and the meetings took much longer than they would have normally because of it. The business was conducted in English when they were negotiating though!
That said, they can be a very generous people and having got off at the wrong train station in rural France a few years ago (almost identically named two stations about 10km apart in the middle of the nowhere) wearing a suit and carrying a laptop I ventured to the café opposite and asked if there were any taxis. I got the typical French laugh meaning "non" but a local jumped up and offered to drive me to my destination. I offered him a significant amount of Euro for his troubles but he refused and was happy for the conversation. I jumped out of the car and dropped the money on the seat as I hurried in to the factories entrance gate.
He certainly saved me a great deal of embarrassment as the next train was several hours later.
|
>> They even call white people who moved from Africa "pied noir" to their faces.
'Pieds noirs' are former French Algerians. Generally speaking they are a very reactionary bunch.
Algeria at one time was claimed as part of France, and the native Arab and Berber Algerians fought long and hard for independence. The great De Gaulle recognized its inevitability and gave the country independence.
The remaining pieds noirs took it badly and one of them tried to assassinate the General. Some were still around a few years ago, swearing and cursing, hating everyone and his brother.
Algeria is a very tough place. I used to enjoy going there but it would probably scare me now, unless it's changed a great deal.
|
>>Pied Noir
I was walking to a bar in a rough area of Marseille with a friend (though not quite as rough as the one depicted in The Razor's Edge). We were stopped by le flic and asked for our papers. My passport sufficed to get me out of trouble but the pied noir that I was with got a load of stick, roughly searched and very rudely spoken to. After the stop, my friend, who is a published PhD, just shrugged his shoulders and said "third time this month"!
He is white French, his family moved to Tunisa a couple of generations ago to with their French employer and after independence they moved back.
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 18:32
|
|
They probably didn't remember that it was "left-hand " drive!!
|
"Also I find it strange that there were so many bullet holes in the windscreen yet not one in direct line of the driver's vision. How come police missed so many shots?"
Pistol is a short range weapon. Driver could have been moving about in the cab. Even an early bullet hit might not incapacitate the recipitant. Even if it did they would have to make sure he was totally incapacitated. Windscreens have a certain ballistic resistance to small calibre weapons. Night time reflections on windscreen obscuring what was behind it. High stress situation - did the lorry have more than 1 occupant? Was the lorry laden with exlposives? There was a firework display going on, lots of bangs.
Next question?
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 16:38
|
>> Pistol is a short range weapon.
And very inaccurate, especially an automatic pistol fired with one hand. Clearly a trained policeman can hit an enormous truck windscreen, but nothing smaller except by accident.
They do hold a lot of rounds, those Browning-type automatics. Up to 14 I believe.
|
Someone was trying to enter the truck by the drivers door (apparently a civilian trying to wrestle control of the truck).
I guess the murderer moved over to the passenger side of the vehicle to escape?
|
Three days of mourning in France, flags at half mast and shows of solidarity everywhere else. Giving the terrorists exactly what they want.
Keep calm and carry on.
|
I don't think proportionate public displays of respect are out of order, nor do I think they are feeding the terrorists egos.
Are you hoping it might not disrupt the news so badly next time???
|
|
Terrorists feed on sensational publicity, without that they would not operate anywhere near so much. Reporting the news in a matter of fact manner without all the "My grief is greater than yours" hysteria from people who couldn't find France on the map would lessen the chances of a repeat.
|
Of course there are always individual cases of heroism and people who run away from a situation.
These attacks are happening now regulary in France.Paris, Nice, which big city next?
I understand the days of mourning in France people have died in terrible circumstances.
We look to politicians for protection they are the government.
|
>> Terrorists feed on sensational publicity, without that they would not operate anywhere near so much.
>> Reporting the news in a matter of fact manner without all the "My grief is
>> greater than yours" hysteria from people who couldn't find France on the map would lessen
>> the chances of a repeat.
>>
I don't think that they worry too much or get much from the fact our flags are at halfmast, fullmast or any mast.
|
>>I don't think that they worry too much or get much from the fact our flags are at halfmast, fullmast or any mast.
I think you are wrong. Not that flags at half mast in and of itself is significant; but all the outpourings, gestures, news reports, soul searching, speeches, ceremonies, protests, demonstrations and the rest together I am sure is exactly what they like to see, and provides encouragement for future efforts.
Both to the organisation and the individual.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 20:44
|
I think you are wrong.
fair enough, i don't think they worry too much other than the dead bodies. Perhaps with some of them, in some small way some of the time but all the flags and speeches don't really worry/please them too much.
|
I obviously don't know what really motivates such an individual, especially since they are not likely to be any version of "normal" that I recognise.
But a need to be recognised, praised, remembered, relevant, impactful, etc. etc. seems to feature in there.
So any recognition of a perpetrator is likely surely to feature in the mind of a potential perpetrator?
Insofar as the organisation is concerned, then their intention is to impact a society. To scare it, to change its way of life, to make it pay attention, to make it think about the subject.
Surely then, the public outpouring contributes to the satisfaction of that as well?
There must be a reason that terrorists always want their attacks to be so visible.
|
> Surely then, the public outpouring contributes to the satisfaction of that as well?
As above only in a small way i believe. Killing people is, on the whole, sufficient motivation for them. I don't say it's nothing but i don't believe that it's high enough up their list that if were to put out a simple news report only it would change anything.
|
|
The attention the get, and the understandable wailing and gnashing of teeth, are signs of success to them. The publicity will also act as a spur to others, who might not get involved at all if they saw less about ot on the news.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 21:26
|
85 people killed,many of them children by a madman in a Truck.
Less on the news? Do we live in the same universe.
|
"How come police missed so many shots?"
They got him.
A hundred armed Imperial Stormtroopers couldn't shoot a man running towards them in a narrow corridor if they tried. And they tried. That's poor training.
|
>>A hundred armed Imperial Stormtroopers
A reference to Star Wars and the event today/this weekend in London?
|
As a resident in France I have been quite unable, so far, to find out what 'three days of national mourning' actually means. The only town hall I noticed yesterday certainly didn't have its flag flying at half-mast.
I shall not, this time, be attending any local shows of solidarity. I think the whole situation is being handled very badly indeed by the French government and the best thing I can do is keep my head down and think very seriously about what the future might hold for my partner and I. I was already steering clear of the neighbours, who want to talk about nothing but 'Brexit'.
|
think very seriously about what
>> the future might hold for my partner and I.
I take that to mean leaving the country, it's getting that bad?
I was already steering clear of
>> the neighbours, who want to talk about nothing but 'Brexit'.
>>
They're still fascinated by it?
|
Yes to both.
I was just on the Meteo France website and a message flashed up saying 'Meteo France joins in the national mourning'.
For goodness' sake...
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Sat 16 Jul 16 at 10:41
|
Have you considered moving to Turkey MH? It's very nice here...about 75% of the hotel guests are Turkish. Lovely people to chat to, as are the locals.
I'm actually considering extending my holiday, changing my return flight and seeing more of the country. Albeit rather scorchio this time of year... The Lycian Way in Spring is now on my agenda, as is a Gulet trip for a week.
I believe they have skiing here, not quite the Trois Vallees, but more than we have in Yorkshire!
Hope everything works out for you
|
|
ISIS have claimed responsibility for the attack, according to Paris Match online. Even if they didn't I suppose it was too good a propaganda opportunity to refrain from claiming.
|
Terror Attack In Nice - Ted
