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Has anyone else had experience of Android Pay in real life?
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Wouldn't think so unless they have been to the US after September last year when it was launched.
What experiend do you have of it?
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It launched in the UK today.
Not all banks or cards supported. Barclays for example will have their own app... in fact they will use the current mobile app on Android.
You need to have a phone with NFC obviously. And a registered compatible card.
Should work wherever Apple Pay works.
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>> Has anyone else had experience of Android Pay in real life?
That tech bloke from the BBC has.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36320321
If it's as good as Apple Pay (and I can't see why it won't be) then it'll be no different to paying with a contactless credit/debit card. End of the day all you're doing is using a device that has a NFC (near field communication) chip.
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Later on, you'll be able to pay for purchases larger than £30 by authenticating the transaction, e.g. using a fingerprint.
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I was advised by MBNA, today, that it was available and would be supported by them.
They suggested I use it for routine contactless payments! What - a credit card for groceries - no way!
However, my bank do support it and, surprise, surprise - Aldi accept contactless. (unlike Sainsbury's) so I've installed the App, registered with our bank and am all set to try it out.
The only drawback I can see is that one of the Ts & Cs is that my phone has a lock screen opened by a PIN. That's a bit of a bind, having to enter a PIN each time the phone wakes up after a sleep.
I'm not sure if having the phone in a case will affect the reader's ability to connect, but we'll see.
PS. SWMBO HATES the idea : no way will she use her phone to pay; se doesn't like using her contactless debit card, either: "I don't trust it" she declares :-)
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>> The only drawback I can see is that one of the Ts & Cs is that my phone has a lock screen
>> opened by a PIN. That's a bit of a bind, having to enter a PIN each time the phone wakes up
>> after a sleep.
You don't need to unlock the phone. Hence the £30 default limit - anyone could use it to pay contactless.
Eventually, to spend more than £30, you can use your authentication method to verify larger transactions. Not sure if that means just unlock or use it when the app requests it. We can't know because it's not a payment option yet. The limit of £30 is the same as contactless cards.
Samsung Pay in the US apparently supports (on Samsung phones at least) emulating some of the magnetic card transactions. That won't come to Europe when those with Samsung phones get Samsung Pay.
P.S. The app needs to be kept running in the background. So no auto killing background processes to save some battery power.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 18 May 16 at 22:41
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>> So no auto killing background processes to save some battery power.
Can't speak for Android, but someone asked Apple whether running apps in the background had any effect on battery life. And the answer was no.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35782865
Anyway, next thing to come is a digital driving licence.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36302214
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Multi-tasking on Android and iOS used to be very different. In fact it was not that long ago that iOS simply didn't let general applications multi-task.
On Android things used to be different. But it's implementation of multi-tasking is probably closer to what we're used to on laptops and desktops. And therefore reason to close/kill unnecessary apps.
Android M(marshmallow) added a lot of improvements.
Back to Android Pay... You only need Android 4.4 or newer. But you do need NFC.
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I was quite excited about this and downloaded the app, only to find NatWest aren't supporting it yet (debit card), nor are my credit card company, Tesco bank.
I told SWMBO about it and like Roger's she isn't keen. Which is odd because she's been using contactless payment for far longer than I.
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If you open the Pay app, it requires that you set up an unlock code, within five minutes,-if you don't all card details will be removed
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Presumably you have a phone with NFC (Near Field Communication) Roger. The lack thereof would rule it out for me.
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Yes, NFC is a requirement.
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Yes - the Vodafone Smart Ultra 6 has NFC.
I was quite surprised to see that Halifax bank supported Android Pay, as generally it's not in the forefront for innovation & service, although I do like the fiver a month loyalty bung and their online banking is excellent.
Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 19 May 16 at 10:50
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Not quite sure what advantage paying by phone rather than contactless card is.
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Just shifting some of my banking to Santander where it costs a fiver a month but they have a ridiculously high interest rate on your entire balance (3%, up to £20k single or £60k joint) and pay a cashback on standing orders for certain household bills. Moneysaving dot com reckon you will easily earn the fiver a month back.
However they don't support Google Pay either... :-(
www.santander.co.uk/uk/current-accounts/123-current-account
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We've got a 123 account with Santander and have done for over a year or so. Now that interest is not automatically deducted, the month we got just over £50 interest. The cash back on the direct debits covers to monthly £5 fee.
Now I wouldn't have to pay 40% interest on this sort of amount, might start to max out another one of these in my name. Okay £50/month on £20k isn't great but it's better than you get in most savings accounts.
I also downloaded the app yesterday morning to give it a try. My Tesco card is registered on Google anyway.... but not supported. Went to add my debit card and actually should have known it wouldn't work because Barclays are doing their own things for paying with NFC on a phone.
So I'll not be trying it anytime soon.
Only advantage I can see is you can get your phone out of a shirt pocket and pay quicker than you can get a wallet out, take out the debit/credit card and tap that. And there'll be larger payments when supported by security authentication (finger print, pattern on screen or presumably a PIN).
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Also reduces the amount of stuff you need to lug around.
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Does it? You still your wallet for cash, driving licences, and numerous other things. What it would mean is that you have to take a phone with you in addition. You also. need to ensure that it is charged. I think the card system has the edge and is now well established. Multiple phone systems will not help take up.
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Cash is disappearing quite rapidly. Driving licence is to be digitised and they are looking at passports and NHS too - see www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36302214 . I now have a few "loyalty" apps on my phone which replaced physical cards (Subway, B&Q, Costa, Tastecard for example)
Many people carry their phone all the time anyway.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 19 May 16 at 14:05
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That link doesn't work (cos of the full stop). See if you can get a mod to fix it for you :)
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Shirley, some, many, most of us would know that a link with a full stop at the end wouldn't work and would know to remove same from the link?
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And we'd also know that knowing how to do something and remembering to do it are 2 different things :)
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I'm sure these things might disappear eventually but not in our lifetimes and until every card, pass, license, ands cash is abolished you will need a wallet to put them in. The main problem with having everything one your phone is what do you do when you run out of power
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>> The main problem with having everything one your phone is what do you do when you run out of power
Well you make sure you don't, by carrying around a power bank - or spare battery if you're able to get into the phone to swap it over.
Anyway, mobiles today have a far superior battery to those of old. My first Philips analogue mobile phone had a standby time of up to 22 hours, and that was only achievable with 2 batteries. An 8 hour battery, and a 14 hour battery. Note, I said standby time. Make any calls and the standby time reduced quite dramatically. My new iPhone SE still has over 40 to 50% charge left if in at the end of the day. My old iPhone 4 was usually down to 20%, or even less by the end of the working day, and would occasionally need a top up charge to make it last the whole day.
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>> Anyway, mobiles today have a far superior battery to those of old.
My Motorola G will do maybe 60 hrs if I'm really careful about using wi-fi, GPS etc. Streets ahead of the MR20 that was my first mobile 20yrs ago. It needed to charge overnight every night AND on my desk during the day.
OTOH the last 'chock-block' unsmart Sony Ericsson would last all week on a single charge.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 19 May 16 at 21:41
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My Motorola G will do maybe 60 hrs if I'm really careful about using wi-fi,
>> GPS etc. Streets ahead of the MR20 that was my first mobile 20yrs ago. It
>> needed to charge overnight every night AND on my desk during the day.
That's pretty good, my Samsung needs charging every night.
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To date my contactless debit card hasn't needed charging at all.
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You obviously don't make many calls on it.
;-)
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>> Anyway, mobiles today have a far superior battery to those of old.
They do but they don't last as long! High end smart phones chew through battery, few will do more than a day if they are actually used, unlike the old Nokia 6310i, with its 1050mAh battery that usually lasted a week.
I always take a power pack if I have a full day out and need to make sure of being communicado. My new phone has a 3430mAh battery that lasts me a day, but not two.
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Android Pay.
What a flipping waste of time!
The first time I wanted to use it I found the ****** App had removed my debit card.
Presumably as I had disabled PIN unlock screen security. (I cannot be assed to enter a PIN every time I want to use the phone.)
So I tried uploading the card again and the wretched thing wanted re-authentication details and texts to me from my bank.
Uninstalled and will stick with my contactless debit card!
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>> Presumably as I had disabled PIN unlock screen security. (I cannot be assed to enter a PIN
>> every time I want to use the phone.)
That's for security reasons and by design. It will only work if the phone is protected by a PIN, security pattern or fingerprint. To begin with transactions are limited to £30 but it will be possible to use the phone for larger payments if you authenticate the transaction.
I never had security on any of my previous Android phones for a similar reason to you. Now use the fingerprint scanner and it is seamless and quick to unlock.
You did note that it asked you to setup an unlock code within 5 minutes or cards would be removed. Presumably you setup such a code, added the card and then removed the code. Hence removing the card a short while later.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 20 May 16 at 12:11
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Well, I relented and re-installed the App, to give it a fair trial, putting up with a PIN unlock.
I set the lock screen delay to 30 minutes, the maximum, and we wandered around Morrison's, finally using the phone to painlessly pay £15.88.
On reaching home I had a message from the App confirming the purchase.
Seems OK so far.
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>> I set the lock screen delay to 30 minutes, the maximum,
Surely you'd want to have the phone lock itself sooner than that for security reasons. Should someone nick your phone, they could easily make unauthorised purchases. ok, the same could be said about your debit/credit cards if they were stolen, but phones are quite desirable items to be stolen these days. Probably more so than wallets.
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>> Surely you'd want to have the phone lock itself sooner than that for security reasons. Should
>> someone nick your phone, they could easily make unauthorised purchases.
To purchase something up to £30, the phone can remain locked. That's what I have read on reviews anyway. So lose the phone and someone can use it.
If you did lose the phone, then Android Phone Manager can remotely wipe the cards registered in the Android Pay app on the phone.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 21 May 16 at 20:38
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"remotely wipe"
That's a good point - with more and more stuff being kept on phones people need to understand what can be done if it is lost, and what they should do. I don't really know but here is a starter for 10
support.google.com/accounts/answer/6160500?hl=en
I guess Apple have something similar.
Last edited by: smokie on Sat 21 May 16 at 21:10
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Using Google's Android Phone Manager, you can lock, wipe or locate a phone for example. Or set of a loud noise (help to find it).
If you plug my current phone (Samsung Galaxy S6) into a computer with the security enabled (I use fingerprints) then it won't connect via USB using MTP protocol. You have to unlock and and agree to the connection.
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>> I guess Apple have something similar.
Yep, though iCloud. But I imagine, just like an Android phone, it relies on the phone getting a signal, whether it be a Wi-Fi or a data signal from the phone's network. Put the phone into airplane mode, or just switch it off, and no matter what you do, you ain't going to wipe the phone of your personal information. If in airplane mode, then the thief has all the time in the world to start interrogating the phone.
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But I guess it needs to be online to use stuff like payment products, even if you don't have to explicitly authorise a payment it must be doing some authentication over the air.
Or maybe not! I can think of stores where I get no signal. Maybe they'd need to sort that out before they can offer NFC payments.
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>> But I guess it needs to be online to use stuff like payment products
Apple and Android pay work a bit differently. Your card details are not exchanged with either when paying but a token is used. On iOS the token is generated on the phone itself. On Android the token is generated by Google's servers. However, Google's version has a fallback of having some tokens already stored locally for use.
Both I understand will work without a data connection.
As for putting into airplane mode and then trying to gain access. If you have a current iPhone they are encrypted as standard and have fingerprint security. Provided you use both then I'd say you'll need all the time in the world to gain access.
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>> If you have a current iPhone they are encrypted as standard and have fingerprint security.
After the 4th failed attempt at reading a finger print, the 5th attempt onwards asks for the PIN instead to unlock the phone.
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ANother feature is when you lose an iPhone and use Find My Phone to "stun" it, it deactivates the Pay option until you find it..
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Next time I pay with the phone app, I'll try first without unlocking the phone to see if that works OK.
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Another trip to Morrison's today and it's apparent that the phone needs to be "awake", i.e. the lock screen unlocked, before the process works.
As said, there's no need to fire up the App itself.
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>> As said, there's no need to fire up the App itself.
support.google.com/androidpay/answer/6224824?hl=en
You don't have to open the Android Pay app to make a purchase with your NFC phone; just follow these steps:
1. Wake up and unlock your phone.
2. Hold the back of your phone against the contactless payment terminal.
3. If prompted, choose "Credit" regardless of your type of card.
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>> 1. Wake up and unlock your phone.
If that requires entering a PIN, as suggested by Roger above, it sounds significantly less convenient than just waving a card over the terminal, assuming you can find your card of course.
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 25 May 16 at 17:36
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Yes, I still fail to see any real advantage of phone over card.
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>> If that requires entering a PIN, it sounds significantly less convenient than just waving a card over the terminal.
It does, doesn't it. With Apple pay you just double click the home button, then select what card you want to pay with (if it's not the default one you've previously told the phone to use) and confirm with a finger print or PIN code. Still, it's slightly quicker than having to rummage through your wallet.
>> Yes, I still fail to see any real advantage of phone over card.
What would you sooner have?
A wallet containing several credit/debit cards,
or
One phone containing several credit/debit cards.
Not to mention boarding passes, cinema tickets, loyalty cards, etc all on the phone instead of a bulging wallet.
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Unlocking an Android phone with a fingerprint sensor is just as quick as unlocking an iPhone with a fingerprint sensor.
Roger unfortunately opted for a cheap phone without such a sensor.
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A wallet containing several credit/debit cards,
or
One phone containing several credit/debit cards.
I'd go for the wallet. The cards come for free, they don't need charging, they can't go wrong. The wallet is still necessary for cash which is going to be with us for a long time yet and is somewhere to put all those bits of paper which are still so necessary in this digital age. Presumably you still get a paper receipt if you pay with a phone? Where do you keep that?
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 25 May 16 at 22:19
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Presumably you still get a paper receipt if you pay with a phone? Where do you keep that?
A Pocket or the bin?
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Here's a thing. According to
support.google.com/androidpay/answer/6314169?hl=en-GB
the M&S Bank credit card works with AP. But it isn't a contactless card (mine was renewed in January and I was surprised to see that it hadn't gone contactless).
So if you want to use that card contactlessly, you will need to use a phone app.
I'll give it a try, as it will also support my firstdirect debit card.
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>> I'd go for the wallet. The cards come for free, they can't go wrong.
I've had a few magnetic strips and chips play up in my time. So there you are at the till, with a queue of people behind you and the card doesn't work. You then resort to rubbing the strip/chip on a shirt sleeve, or trouser thigh. Wetting it with your finger and rubbing frantically, in the hope the next time you put it in the card reader it'll work. One of my cards isn't contactless, so I'm glad now that it is through Apple Pay.
>> Presumably you still get a paper receipt if you pay with a phone?
The choice is yours. Some places will offer you a receipt, others won't. All transactions are saved on the phone though, well it is on an iPhone. Presumably the same for Android?
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You only have to unlock the phone if paying more than £30. Range somewhat superior to that on a contactless card as I discovered to my irritation last week when my unlocked phone accidentally paid for the entire meal in Vienna when the waiter placed his credit card machine on the table next to it!
I'm quite impressed.
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>> You only have to unlock the phone if paying more than £30.
Ah ok - makes a bit more sense then.
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I have not tried it but I posted this on 18th May. The reviewers said you only need to unlock/authenticate for larger than £30 transactions. For Android Pay I'm not sure that available yet.
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I have now used Android pay for about half a dozen transactions and it has been handy & trouble free.
Today I have added a newly obtained Halifax MasterCard to it.
BTW, the Halifax Clarity MasterCard gives one a fiver a month if one spends £300 on it!
I shall take advantage of this, by using the card instead of my debit card, but of course will pay off in full to avoid interest charges.
With the £5 per month on the current account and the projected £5 a month from this I shall be getting £10 a month from my banking arrangements.
A £120 a year bung :-)
What's not to like?
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>> I have not tried it but I posted this on 18th May. The reviewers said
>> you only need to unlock/authenticate for larger than £30 transactions. For Android Pay I'm not
>> sure that available yet.
>>
It's worked for me.
However a recent software update on my phone has broken Android Pay (it gets rejected by the card machine about 60% of the time now).
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That update could have been marshmallow (v 6 of the operating system) which seems to have broken some apps on my phone (not including Pay, which I don't use).
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Exactly how does one authenticate an over £30 transaction on Android Pay? I'd like to be prepared at a checkout, rather than looking technically dumb-struck.
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Assuming a retailer supports/allows payments over £30, then you need to unlock the phone. For anything under £30 you just need to wake the phone, i.e. turn the screen on.
At least that's what I've read.
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The phone must be woken up by entering the PIN (if that is your chosen method) to use Android Pay at all.
(Disable PIN (or other) security and the Android Pay app unloads your card details.)
So what else is needed for the over £30 scenario?
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>> The phone must be woken up by entering the PIN (if that is your chosen method) to use
>> Android Pay at all.
Only needs to be woken up and screen on as far as I was aware.
>> So what else is needed for the over £30 scenario?
1) Unlock phone, 2) Somewhere supporting > £30 payments, 3) Google support for > £30 payments in UK.
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>> You only have to unlock the phone if paying more than £30. Range somewhat superior
>> to that on a contactless card as I discovered to my irritation last week when
>> my unlocked phone accidentally paid for the entire meal in Vienna when the waiter placed
>> his credit card machine on the table next to it!
>>
Next time you're in Austria, please get in touch, we'd love to have dinner with you ;-)
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As I mentioned higher up in the thread, when I tried to register a card for Android Pay none that I generally use was supported. I have an emergency card with a large limit which is never used.
Barclays has now launched their mobile pay support for Android phones with NFC. Experience so far:
1. You enable it in the mobile Barclays Banking app and it creates a new 16 digit card number for contactless payments.
2. You select in the app which of your Barclays card to link with contactless payments - so mine is a debit card.
3. You choose whether to enter a PIN for every transaction or to allow up to £30 without a PIN.
I've tried it once and it paid for the items without even waking the phone. The app is running all the time - annoyingly it shows a notification. It will allow payments up to £100 but you have to enter the PIN of the card associated with contactless payments so have to unlock to phone to do this (wise from a security point of view).
If you use it a lot in a short space of time (don't know the trigger point) then it will ask for the PIN. It does not support the fingerprint sensor.
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Android Pay. - CGNorwich
