It has been suggested that it might soon be time to change my company car. Current one ( apologies to those who know this bit ) is a Mercedes E250 CDI Sport Auto estate.
It has been utterly brilliant. In 4.5 years and over 160,000 miles it has been absolutely faultless other than a wonky dashboard light. Comfortable, nice to drive and meets all my commercial and private needs.
However, it is a wee bit steamy on bik ( benefit in kind tax )
The easy answer to the pending question would be "same again please", but I suppose a bit of pondering and seeking of opinion wouldn't come amiss.
I need ( no compromise here ) lots ( LOTS ) of loadspace. I want, something at least pleasant to drive ( 35,000 or so miles a year ) I'd like automatic and I'd prefer, but not insist on, something which has a wee bit of presence. ( no vans ) Also want to get my bikes on the roof every weekend so maybe nothing too tall.
Could I achieve my criteria and get something as bulletproof as I've had while making a noticeable bik saving?
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I would have thought a Mondeo Estate would be a good choice..........
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Wouldn't turn my nose up at a Mondeo in truth.
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Not being a company car driver I've no idea on the BIK but I'm sure a nicely specd mondy must have a lower list price than another E.
I guess it the current LEC fits the bill then a newer replacement would be just as good plus each evolution tends to have lower co2
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How many hours per month in the car?
Bik payment per hour?
Is that a reasonable cost to drive what you want for each hour with (seemingly) all your requirements satisfied.
If you saved 10% on that hourly cost and drove something less satisfying, would that be a sufficient saving for the sacrifice?
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Aye true enough, when you put it that way. Just curious to explore if I'm missing something obvious really.
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I don't think I've seen anything about a new model E-class estate so maybe it's based still on the old one - there are pluses and minuses about that of course. Discounts should be good, although BIK is still calculated on list price isn't it?
If it were me I'd be looking at not only the Mondeo (road tests say less good to drive than the previous version) but the top-of-the range Superb estate: as much room as you could need, 280 bhp petrol, 190 bhp diesel (but more torque) and 4wd. Also the new Volvo V90 - not sure when that's going to be on sale, possibly not till the autumn. You can have an XC90 now - but the height of that would mean a bike rack rather than bikes on the roof - is that a problem?
I'd imagine that the XF Sportbrake, A6 Avant and 5-series Touring would be too small, but it may be the shape of the luggage area that matters to you more than quoted capacity.
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XF and 5 Series appeal a bit more than the Audi due to RWD. Not a deal breaker but I do like the "feel" of the power to the back wheels.
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I meant to ask - does the image of what you turn up in matter to your customers (indeed do they usually see what you turn up in)? If so, the Ford and Skoda probably level-peg on a rung below the others, but above a Vauxhall estate which suggests you've come to mend the photocopier.
If RWD is preferable my bet is that you'll go for another Mercedes: as Mark implies above, the extra driving satisfaction makes the extra BIK worth it.
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>> I meant to ask - does the image of what you turn up in matter
>> to your customers (indeed do they usually see what you turn up in)?
It doesn't seem to be an issue these days - almost everone on the road seems to have an Audi. BMW or Merc - but in the 80's and 90's "sales reps" in Audis or BMWs used to draw a lot of negative customer comment, and I worked with one principal whose area manager for the Midlands had an XJ6 (so should have been lauded in the Midlands) and every customer who saw it would make a snide comment.
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XF is still the old ( steel bodied) model in estate form. The aloominum new model is a little while away yet.
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I'm pretty much at peace with not being at all bothered what anyone looking at it thinks of it but I do like to have something I enjoy driving.
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>> XF is still the old ( steel bodied) model in estate form. The aloominum new
>> model is a little while away yet.
>>
They've stopped making the XF Sportbrake.
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Superb has the E beat for passenger space but not in the boot; I've been in the back of both in Germany this week. Came home from the airport in a newish E200 Bluetec that was seriously smooth and mechanically impressive; nice alcantara interior too, less garish than the early 212s. The Superb has the space but can't match the ambiance.
The E is still the best all-round estate for my money. RWD means a better nose weight limit for the bikes on the towbar too. And it self-levels. Last night's car made me want to have another one.
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How about a Westfield?
I'm sure you could fit a trailer on the back.
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Test drive an Audi A6 Avant..... and then let me know what you think.... might well go down that route myself.
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Dodgy auto gearbox though isn't it? Or has that been cured?
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>> Dodgy auto gearbox though isn't it? Or has that been cured?
>>
Not sure it has... many people don't have a problem, although i'd have the manual.
When trading, I did sell my mum's friend an auto Passat with 130k on the clock (a gift for her son), which was a worry..... haven't heard anything yet (and I will)... and that was 2 years ago.
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Humph seems to be ignoring the Superb suggestions......
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Yeah, I noticed that Bobby. Easily the best answer. Far lower BIK rates I'd have thought, which is what he's allegedly after.
Wrong badge syndrome I expect.
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Not the badge so much. I quite like Yetis for example. No rational reason to reject the Superb at all really, other than it being ( in my eyes anyway ) an utter munter.
;-)
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Well that leaves the E and the Mondeo then.
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No but, yeah but, no but, not really but...maybe, not quite but...
;-)
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The estate car I truly lust after is the Nissan Stagea. And the SAAB 9-5 Aero.
But I suppose that's not an option in your company scheme.
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I didn't know what a Stagea was until I googled it just now. It looks to me like an estate car that has been designed by someone who once had the idea of an estate car described to them, but who can't quite remember the detail, and has never actually seen one.
;-)
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Oooo, harsh. The M35 generation I find quite handsome. The WC34 is an absolute beast, ugly in a way that really appeals to me, like old 70s/80s Yank station wagons.
You really need to do something about that looks obsession of yours.
;-)
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>> You really need to do something about that looks obsession of yours.
Aye maybe, but as I keep explaining to my son, there's not much point in dating the ugly ones when there are pretty ones available that cost much the same to run !
;-)
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there's not much point in
>> dating the ugly ones when there are pretty ones available that cost much the same
>> to run !
Blimey, in my experience the shinier ones usually offer far higher maintenance costs, both financial and emotional.
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Yeah, but who wants ugly grandchildren?
;-)
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Isn't that what 'privacy glass' is for?
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Good job for me my Grandads weren't fussed. They even ended up with a ginger one.
;-)
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Great minds, Humph:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=17282&m=385858
I passed one on the M4 on the way to Wales in February. Beige, it was, and looked just as peculiar and not-quite-right as it does in the pictures.
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Funny, isn't it? To me they look utterly "right".
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You have obviously had a a great experience with the MB, and as it is also probably the most practical (excluding vans), I expect you'll get another.
I can't find much info on the hybrid version, which I think exists - that would keep the BIK lower even under the new rules.
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/496886/TC2b.pdf
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Yes, a neighbour of mine has the Hybrid E300 version E estate as a company car. White. It's always filthy, he drives to Coventry and back most days. Puts me in mind of Runfer.
Another chap round the corner has a W211 in dark grey, always spotless but he commutes by train and it rarely gets much of an outing. I'm going to ask him what he wants for it when he inevitably trades it for a newer one in a few years. I regret slightly not asking him about his previous, silver one which he traded in.
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I suspect you are probably right Manatee, I just want to explore other ideas before I commit. I spend an unreasonable amount of time in my cars so it's important to me to make the best choice. As I mentioned earlier, the easy ( and not wrong ) answer is "same or similar again please" I know it would be a perfect match for my needs and wants but I guess I just don't want to reject other possibilities if one of them makes for an even better choice.
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Could you not at least make a shortlist by taking a typical bootful of Crocs to the relevant showrooms and trying to shove them into a Mondeo, a 520d, an A6, a Superb and - if you've lost the will to live - a Passat? Any that can swallow the load make the list and you can set about deciding which ones you actually like?
The 5 is very nice to drive but tight for passenger space if someone has to sit behind me, which presumably won't matter in your car. I wouldn't bother with the V70 because it's ten years old and brilliant only in the front seats; back and boot are badly compromised. A6 is longer than either and good for passengers; you'd have to test the boot for yourself. And the old Superb was a bit narrow to be the best load carrier (or five-seater) but the new one looks better proportioned and should be a serious contender.
I still think you'll struggle to better the E, not because it's RWD - I can't see how that matters in your pattern of use - but because it's such a well-designed estate. I think the 5 beats the E in saloon form, but the MB back end is much better thought out and is enough to reverse the standings.
The W213 is out now, although the S213 is still some way off. There are some enticing deals on the last S212s on the MB UK site, so I bet those could be improved on some more. Or you could wait for a new one. Either way, I think you'll be well satisfied.
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Here's a thing, moving from a 250 to a 220 would save about £50 a month. ( seems they're not doing the 250 in the E at the moment anyway )
I suspect I might not notice the difference 99% of the time either. The 250 has plenty of punch but realistically its not that often you get the chance to use it all.
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Stick with another E
Does the new 220 have similar performance to the old 250? As models evolve they seem to make them lighter & more frugal
I considered lots of alternatives to replacing the 330... Focus ST, MB C200, Octavia Vrs, even Golfs in GTI & R guise, but it's definitely going to be a 328 Touring.
No point in having change for the sake of it
And I prefer RWD
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The very new E220 has a new 2.0 engine with more power than the old 2.1. The 2.1 went up from 150hp to 170 with the refresh of the W211, and stayed there for the W212 E220 while its fuel efficiency improved. The E250 had the same engine with different programming (and turbos?) for about 25% more torque and 200hp+; probably useful in a 1.8t car.
I think the S213 will be offered as a 2.0 E220d and a 3.0 E350d.
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Have you thought of the Mazda6 estate? Plenty of room for the footwear, and as it's FWD, you can drive it with confidence during the worst of the winter months.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Fri 6 May 16 at 12:18
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Is it really RWD?
Clearly not!
}:---)
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 6 May 16 at 12:18
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Me no understand question...
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You wrote 'RWD', I queried, you edited to correct, so we can no longer see what I was querying.
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It's all very hard this. Might ask to keep the old one. I like the old one.
;-)
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...throughout this thread, this has been going through my head......
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk
(with a bit of Janis Joplin trying to move it on.....)
Don't you get some strange comments on Youtube ;-)
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>> It's all very hard this. Might ask to keep the old one. I like the
>> old one.
I was thinking that... buy the LEC and run it privately for weekend use; then get a Pious or something else hybrid for low BIK for the day job - doesn't matter if you have to take the seats out to get the gear in.
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Or a van I suppose, if going with that idea.
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Just for the record. I did type RWD, but edited it before I saw your query, not after. Despite what the little arrow on the left tells you.
I think edits should show hours, minutes and seconds, to avoid confusion.
;-) x 10
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I think we saw and acted simultaneously. No offence taken or, I hope, given.
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Anyway, yes the Mazda could be worth a look.
;-)
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Boot won't be big enough.
Shame we don't get Toyota Camry estates here.
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Isn't there still the Avensis for those who want big, solid and dull?
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>> Boot won't be big enough.
Estate not saloon.
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>>No offence taken or, I hope, given.
Absolutely not.
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To be clear, when I'm doing a trade show or similar, I can fill the back of the E class estate with the seats down and the largest top box it'll take. Happens often enough not to want to have to hire vans either. So loadspace very important to me. ( no I don't want an Espace ) !!!!
;-)
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S-Max? Might save you the box - and with the seats down you could fit two bikes inside.
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I've got it.
SsangYong Rhodius.
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>> SsangYong
Now that is ugly ! So ugly, it could appear on one of those documentaries featuring unnaturally ugly things.
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>> ! So ugly, it could appear on one of those documentaries
>> featuring unnaturally ugly things.
The Jeremy Kyle Show?
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S-Max. That thought hadn't escaped me actually. I did have a Mk 1 Galaxy when they were current. Quite liked it I suppose. Dunno...maybe I should check it out. Bleh, maybe...
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 6 May 16 at 13:09
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Van with windows, though.
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( no I don't want an Espace ) !!!!
>>
>> ;-)
>>
But have you seen the new Espace? Not sold here but very popular in Europe, judging by the autoroute traffic.
BiK is a problem, and the only way to really reduce it is to compromise big time on what you drive or run a private car and claim mileage allowance (assuming your employers will allow this). One of our managers has an SLK diesel (not very nice as you ask) and he is going to down-grade when it is up for replacement in November.
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Sat 7 May 16 at 14:36
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>> >> Boot won't be big enough.
>>
>> Estate not saloon.
>>
I realised that. Boot won't be big enough.
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10 of us rented two SEAT Alhambras (same shell as the Galaxy and VW versions) and fitted five in each with five suitcases each (five were female, so some large cases)
Diesel model, manual, don't know what size engine but probably the smallest.
Very Fleet of foot on Spanish motorways, very nice drive and frugal.
Despite previous comments on SEAT finishes, interior was very pleasant, and very well equipped.
Still can't cope with auto parking brake.
Also it had keyless ignition, which was very puzzling till we found it wouldn't lock unless the fob was about thirty feet away.
8o)
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Let me guess: you had to wait all day, then two buses came along at once?
};---)
I admit I've not been in a current Alhambra or Sharan but my taxi firm has a few of the older type and my heart sinks when I see one outside my house at five in the morning. Yes, there's plenty of room but it's hard, bouncy, noisy and uncomfortable by comparison with a proper car. Unless the new one is a miracle of engineering it's not going to be a soft landing for a post-Mercedes Humph.
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They were brand new, mine had 33 kilometers on the odometer, the other had 11.
Maybe the 5 pax and 5 cases improved the ride!
8o)
We were all impressed.
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What was it someone said, probably Clarkson come to think, but it was something along the lines of it being a really good idea to consider the long term benefits of a vasectomy before you need to buy a people carrier.
;-)
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tinyurl.com/anythingbutanE
...go on, you know you want to........... :-))
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If you want the space and the badge it must be a Vito estate. Or just put yourself (and us) out of your (our) misery and get another "E". :-)
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Hadn't really thought of the SUV route Tyred(etc) but that does seem quite good.
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It is quite good, and I quite like it. But it doesn't "waft".
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That could be a problem then. I like wafting. I feel I've reached that age.
And a Vito is just a posh van by the way.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 6 May 16 at 19:36
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...I suspect the EU version will be a bit more "wafty" than the 'merkin one, as it has had a lot of fettling for its new market.
You can't deny it has presence, though :-).
Some of the big SUVs might make a bit of a change from an estate.
The MB GLC is a very nice place to be,and of course, a relatively new design, but though the boot is quite large, it is a bit down on the E-class Estate.
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I was reading that there's now an X5 with a 2.0 Diesel engine. It might of course be very good but it doesn't sound like a lot of engine for what must be quite a heavy car ( you'd think anyway )
Long way up to lift the bikes too.
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....I'm actively considering a new X1 with the 2.0 190 twin-turbo diesel.
It is considered to be quite "dynamic" - I'll see when I test drive.
It ticks the boxes, (4wd, upright, lots of space for external size) and is a world away from the previous model (the engine is now E-W, rather than N-S, and the change in interior room and quality is dramatic).
One thing it does have is a bike-rack option, with factory-fit slot-in mounts at the back as a cheaper option than a tow-bar mount. Not sure if this is available on an X5.
...and, of course, I no longer have to worry about BIK :-)
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A BMW with its engine the wrong way round.? That's just a bit too weird. ;-)
Sounds nice though.
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...yes. How are the mighty fallen.
The 2 series is transverse engined (and FWD), and based on the Mini chassis.
On the X1, the reorientation has made it a really well-packaged car; similar size to an Audi Q3, but much more space inside (which was a surprise).
Not really on my radar until some serious trawling, and then a good long session inspecting a few.
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Thought you campmotorvanists just lashed a Smart to the back?
;-)
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...can't do that as I have a custom chassis-mounted double bike rack on the back (though it will do double-duty as a towbar if I buy a few extra bits from the manufacturer in Holland).
Can't say I've ever fancied a Toad, almost as bad as turning it all round and towing a shed ;-)
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If an SUV is a consideration then what about the Volvo XC90. Looks a nice place to spend time and I imagine it may be a bit more wafty than some of the more sporty SUV's
Regarding the bikes a friend has a tow bar mounted bike rack - that works well
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Even though they're only marginally taller, I used to have to use a set of folding steps to get the middle bike on and off the Qashqai.
When you have found yourself flat on your back in the mud with a bike round your neck and a pedal in your mouth a couple of times you tend not to want to do that again any time soon...
;-)
Towbar rack though, hmmmm...possibility.
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>> Long way up to lift the bikes too.
>>
A handy gadget is a square, straight legged stool. I think mine was a few quid in IKEA. Screw a piece of thick (floor) chipboard to one side and you have a stool, step, low seat, and saw horse. I keep mine in the garage as a bench stool, get a big enough car/van and keep it in the back with the bikes.
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OK - here's a possible answer.
The new E-class estate isn't with us yet, but I think the saloon is. You could test-drive a saloon, and if you like it, you won't mind waiting for another few months for the estate, as you're fond of the one you've got.
I've read several times that the new Mercedes 2.0 diesel engine is a lot more refined than the old 2.1. For the mileage you do you deserve a six-cylinder: now that's real 'wafting'. I suppose the BIK is rather steep for these.
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Actually, the ( current ) 350 works out only £25 or so a month more than my 250 ( £400 ish a month) which in turn is about £50 a month more than a 220. None of them are cheap, but as others have said if it ticks enough other boxes it might be seen as a price worth paying.
Going to the other end of the scale, if I went for a manual, small engined, basic spec Mondeo diesel estate it would be less than £150 a month, which is a significant saving.
A good website for checking all this is "comcar" where you can see exactly what a given model costs in bik tax depending on your circumstances.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 6 May 16 at 21:57
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If we take your mileage as 30,000 a year, or 2,500 a month, we can call that 50 hours in the car. So your £400 tax charge for the E250 means £8 for each hour in the car. Put that way, it sounds like rather a lot, and a pound an hour off for dropping to an E220 doesn't seem like a significant saving.
That basic Mondeo, on the other hand, saves you £5 an hour, which is a big saving, although you may not relish the idea of doing without your Mercedes comforts. Now, suppose you have some non-driving days, and a typical travel day includes four hours of driving. Doing that driving in an E250 is going to cost you, personally, £20 more than the same four hours as a Mondeo man. I wonder if you'd consider the question differently if you had to hand a £20 note to an attendant each time you walked out to the car.
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Well, I've been checking some options just now, and a dog's dangly spec Mondeo or a tip top Superb or a best one they do Mazda6 or a well trimmed SMax all work out about £150 a month cheaper than my current car and a 520d M sport auto is nearly £100 cheaper.
I calculate that by saving £150 a month I could have 10 Creme Eggs a day ( including weekends )
That's got to be good right?
;-)
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With that annual saving you could probably hire a Westfield for the weekend
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Surely you could waft in a 530d? Proper straight six methinks
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Ok, 530d M Sport touring auto - £433 a month.
I'd have to do without the Creme Eggs though...
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Nice run on the hobby horse, LL, but a six cylinder engine offers little real benefit for motorway wafting over a four, provided the four is well enough insulated - which it is in my E220 and I imagine in Humph's E250. (I've mentioned before how agricultural the same engine sounds in the C220.)
Where's Gromit to suggest a Subaru?
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Probably true ( he says grudgingly)
Best on country A & B roads where you can wind it up and enjoy that turbine like smoothness as you waltz past caravan campers in the blink of an eye
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Left field alert...
Qashqai 1.6 D manual N-connect ( OK it'd have to have the top box on a lot more )
£209 a month less than I'm shelling out now...
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I find it unlikely that you will encounter a car that brings you more satisfaction. So you are trying to work out how much you can save without upsetting yourself.
So lets try and come at it from the other side;
You are paying £400 pcm in bik, which is about £8.00 p.h. using WdBs reasonable assumptions.
You could save £150 pcm in bik reducing your £8.00 p.h. to £3.00ph.
You have lost a satisfaction level by moving from a Merc to a Mondeo (or whatever).
You have gained a satisfaction level by having £5.00 p.h. or £250 pcm to spend on something else.
Is there something else you could spend £250 on which would balance the loss in satisfaction?
For me the change from Merc to Mondeo would be too much. However, the change from new Merc to older Merc would not. So I would buy the current Merc and run it until I don't like it anymore, and then revisit the thought process you are having now. Essentially swapping lost interest for bik.
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Of course, it also depends on what percentage of your monthly disposable income is represented by £250
What are you p.a. ?
At £100k p.a. / £9k pcm gross, does it really matter?
At £50k p.a. / £4.5k pcm gross, then perhaps it does.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 7 May 16 at 01:19
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All very well, but you forgot to factor in the Creme Eggs. I expect you've forgotten about Creme Eggs, living where you do.
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 7 May 16 at 07:49
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What's with the creme eggs, you flogging them or just eat them like nobody's business?
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>> Everyone needs a hobby.
>>
I thought yours was falling off your push bike down a muddy hill?
;)
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...at 10 Creme Eggs a day, you'd soon be changing any of the cars you've suggested, as you wouldn't any longer fit.
(Though maybe the Merc would just about still do - they are built for lardy German taxi-drivers, aren't they?)......
....and Creme Eggs aren't what they used to be anyway.... ;-)
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>> I find it unlikely that you will encounter a car that brings you more satisfaction.
>> You are paying £400 pcm in bik, which is about £8.00 p.h. using WdBs reasonable
>> assumptions.
>>
>> You could save £150 pcm in bik reducing your £8.00 p.h. to £3.00ph.
I haven't done the hours calculation but sum ting wong there. 150 is 3/8 of 400, not 5/8.
Creme egg deficit will result.
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If you mean what I think you do, Manatee, then I took Humph's £150, £3ph Mondeo to be the baseline for a car that will do the job. Anything above that is gravy, so £5ph is the approximate cost to him of Mercedes gravy.
But yes, to express it the other way I think NoFM should have put the monthly saving at £250, not £150.
Of course, Humph's 2010 S212 is getting on now, and has a CO2 value in the 160s, whereas even today's E220 CDI is more like 140 and the new S213 E220d will probably be sub-130. 30g less means 6 percentage points off the BIK (I think - bit out of touch with the company car world), which could mean £2,400 for a £40,000 car. That's £80 a month off the tax bill and still plenty of gravy - or Creme Eggs
What seems clear is that running an ageing, heavy, expensive car - no matter how much he likes it - as a company motor is, and has probably been for a couple of years, the worst thing Humph could do. If he really likes the car, he should buy it and take an allowance to run it. My allowance costs me £280 a month in tax and keeps me adequately mobile. It would certainly service a personal loan to buy a six-year-old Mercedes for, say, £8,000.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Sat 7 May 16 at 12:49
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Yes of course, I didn't go back to the source!
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Sorry about my blind copying of data from a dodgy source! However, my maths to one side I think the perspective holds.
>> If he really likes the car, he should buy it and take an allowance to run it. My allowance costs me £280 a month in tax and keeps me adequately mobile.
Financially that is almost certainly the right thing to do. But the decision depends as much on the value you put on the security and comfort in a newer car that is someone else's responsibility.
I think the first decision is company car / not company car. The second decision is which car and how.
From Runfer's original note I infer that the primary consideration is the reduction of bik contribution. The easiest way to do that is not to have a company car.
Surely buying the car he has got, assuming it is otherwise satisfactory, is the way to go?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 7 May 16 at 14:28
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Aye maybe, but if for example I bought it now, in two years time it would have done 240,000 miles. While it has so far been totally reliable, it might well not continue to be so for that many miles. Some bits would be almost certain to wear out, you'd think anyway.
I do about 34,000 a year on average so I think having someone else pick up the tab is still the right answer.
Bottom line is I need something big. I want though something comfortable and pleasant to drive. The variable is how much I'm prepared to spend on the comfort and pleasure elements.
I am basically happy with things as they are, but if there was an obvious alternative which increased the Creme egg budget then I'd look at it.
There might not be in the end.
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I know nothing about company cars, BIK, etc. Having said that, if you need a big car to do your job and the BIK hurts is a pay rise to cover the BIK an option? Or you could have a sensible car for BIK and the company employs a van and driver when required?
Or of course you could have a lifestyle beyond your means. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 7 May 16 at 14:46
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Do you have to make 2 year decision?
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It doesn't hurt too much ON its not a problem, it was just to explore the theory of whether a noticeable cash saving could be made with an unnoticeable effect on the usefulness and enjoyment of the vehicle.
No Mark, any decision doesn't have to be permanent.
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I agree with your comments on the Merc for two years. Its probably viable for 1 year, but the hassle levels of two lots of decision making and transactions would put me off.
So it would seem that a company car is the most suitable.
If I may, your criteria would appear to be a spacious, comfortable, wafty, car with a ton of load space.
Unfortunately I think you've got it. Everything else seems to fail on one of those four criteria.
SUVs can be spacious and comfortable, but they're not wafty. BMWs can be comfortable and wafty, but they're not big enough I don't think. etc. etc.
So to save money, you're going to have to sacrifice a requirement. I think there's slightly more chance of hell freezing over than you compromising, so I'm going to buy some popcorn, step back and watch.
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>If I may, your criteria would appear to be a spacious, comfortable, wafty, car with a ton of load space.
He needs one of these:
tinyurl.com/jp6eb6c
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My dad had a Buick before I was born. A friend of his had bought it new and had it shipped from America but his wife disliked it and he sold it to my father. There's a photo somewhere of my parents with it looking slightly like Bonnie and Clyde.
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...should that not have been Bonnie and Forth......
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Then if you're set on staying with the company car, you should aim to change as soon as possible. The present one is simply depriving you of Creme Eggs.
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...is one of the criteria how many Creme Eggs will fit in the boot?........
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No they can be replenished daily.
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If you fill the boot with Creme Eggs, then leave the car in the sun for an hour, you'll come back to find there's room for a lot more Creme Eggs.
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Ok, thanks all, plenty of good advice and comment above, I fear anything further might become circular so I'm going to ponder it all and make some kind of decision in due course.
Hard though isn't it? Shouldn't be but it is.
Thanks again.
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...is retirement an option......? ;-)
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Cue squeals about pensions. :-)
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and recipients of same ;-)
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Given that there wont be (I assume) too many sales reps (no disrespect Humph) that will be given E Class Estates, I am wondering who exactly are the market for these cars? I see notes above about German taxis - is that what their intended use is?
Estates mean load carrying or dogs - would have thought for the price range they are in, most of the dog owner type people with money would be having Range Rovers / X3s etc?
Is there that huge a difference in the load capacity between C & E Class Estates that the C wouldn't suffice for many of the target audience?
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Tricky one that Bobby, but until I'd driven one I might have asked the same question. In truth though, it is for me anyway, more or less the perfect car. It goes well, handles well, cossets you like a cossety thing, sips fuel ( by big car standards ) is supremely comfortable and has an intangible feel good factor. Mine now has more than 160,000 miles on it and I promise you it still looks like new inside and out despite a hard working life. It has never gone wrong, never let me down and swallows loads like no other estate.
I really like it and if I never had a different car I wouldn't feel deprived.
Oh and not everyone wants to drive around sitting up in the air !
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 7 May 16 at 20:27
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Agree that it sounds like the perfect car for you but I would guess there aren't that many of "you" who need a load carrying ability and are of a "grade" that gets you this level of car?
Mondeo Estate 1630 / E Class 1855 quoted space
What space does your current E Class have (assume the knew one will be bigger than yours?)
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Dunno Bobby. Kin huge though.
;-)
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"Mercedes E-Class estate boot space
Boot space in the E-Class estate varies according to model. For example, the boot in the E220 BlueTEC, which has an additional tank for the AdBlue fuel additive, measures 600 litres with the seats upright and 1,855 litres with them lowered. This compares with 695 and 1,950 litres in the E250 CDI and E250 CGI. The bootspace in the E300 BlueTEC Hybrid falls midway between the two, at 650 and 1,905 litres"
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 7 May 16 at 20:39
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>>there aren't that many of "you"...
Not so sure about that, I know loads of people who are making a bob or two but absolutely don't sit peering at a computer screen or round a boardroom table all day. Independent retailers, sales agents etc, all needing to shift themselves and their stuff on a regular basis.
I know one guy who does what I do and runs a Porsche Cayenne, another who has a Jag XF Sportbrake, another who runs a Merc G Wagon, another with a Merc GLE, several with E classes, Audi A6s, Volvo V70s, BMW 5 series tourings, etc etc.
The fashion business is really quite physical in the main, it's not all launch parties, canopes, champagne and catwalk shows.
Although those happen too.
;-)
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If you want the biggest size of estate for practical reasons there isn't that much choice, especially at the 'quality' end. I don't know what numbers they sell, but I can see why they sell them
'Quality' subdivides into 'premium' (i.e. for people concerned with the badge) and perceived durability.
One friend+wife bought one recently - 2012 - on the durability premise, they don't care for image and also run a battered 2004 C-Max. 2012 is recent for them, their last one owned from new was on a K plate - 92/93, not 71/72, so kept for 19 years.
The 124 was durable of course, although the Mercedes service regime in those days was comprehensive and if followed religiously involved a fairly high level of preventive maintenance ISTR. All the same it had quite a lot of unplanned repairs in the last half of its life, so I'm not totally convinced by the quality argument. I like them though.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 7 May 16 at 20:33
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'Ow far do you travel from home in a day....?
www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/modelx
1/2 the tax of current jobby-company might wince at the purchase price though....!
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Notwithstanding the price, the range would be a problem.
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I think if you can get away with slightly less space than you've got more options, say a Mondeo. If you need the E-Class type space I think the only one on the market is the Superb estate but I think you said that you don't like the looks.
Another E-Class I think it is.
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Is there any financial benefit / option in just buying you existing E and taking a car allowance?
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I could Mikey, and there might be, but I absolutely need a car most days in all weathers and usually for long journeys. It already has more than 160,000 ( admittedly trouble free so far ) miles on it. Not sure I'd want to risk it being off the road for repair for any length of time at my expense of providing an alternative vehicle and indeed of unexpectedly funding any major work.
It has been totally reliable but common sense says that as the miles and years increase it will need some ( possibly major ) maintenance at some point.
No, I think it's going to be the same again or a nicely specced Mondeo estate and pocket the difference. Either would do the job admirably, I just need to decide how I want to spend my money and which route gives me the best pleasure/benefit balance.
Thanks again for all the advice everyone. It genuinely has helped me to refine my thinking.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sun 8 May 16 at 10:39
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Audi A6 and Skoda Superb are out because of DSG auto gearbox.
BMW 5 series will have run flat tyres which will compromise comfort and is the boot big enough?
Jag XF Sportbrake no longer made.
Volvo... (has that been shot down in flames and I've missed it?)
Ford Mondeo.... dash is a sea of plastic... other than that i'd agree it is a good car, but going for a specced up one the price rises noticeably.
Merc E class it is then...you only live once.
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Which of the 'bigger' cars did you favour driving when you were in't Fuzz WP?
I had a then new 5 series back around '91/'92 and liked it then but I've not driven a modern one.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sun 8 May 16 at 12:23
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>> Which of the 'bigger' cars did you favour driving when you were in't Fuzz WP?
I only ever got my mitts on a 3 and 5 series BMW (325d 2008 onwards.... 530d prior to that). For police purposes they were excellent IMO: well built, robust, looked the part, quick.
The 3 series had a sports suspension on it though.... excellent at throw it around handling but truly dreadful over speed humps and in general use it was wearing. The suspension was so hard, it wasn't really fit for purpose, as a pot hole would set off the IDR (Incident Data Recorder), so you were off the road a lot, waiting for a traffic supervisor to re-set it.
They did have a C Class Merc on trial which I took out for a punt.... but it didn't get approved for some reason.
My mate was issued a Jag XF 3.0d 'S' as his usual steed in one of the squads. He said he preferred the previous 4x4 Passat as it handled better at the very high speed stuff with 4 heavies in it.
I see they are now using VRS Skodas.
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Why does the DSG disqualify the A6 and Superb? Whatever the question marks over long-term durability, it is for a company car that has to last Humph three years, which it will.
Volvo doesn't (yet) make anything big enough for Humph - or me. The new V90 may change that.
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We ( as in my company ) have had two cars with failed DSG gearboxes a Golf and a Passat. The Golf at 16,000 miles and the Passat at 120,000. We won't be buying any other cars with DSG boxes. Not until it is beyond doubt that they have been made reliable anyway.
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>> Qashqai 1.6 D manual N-connect ( OK it'd have to have the top box on
>> a lot more )
>>
I suspect this was very "left field" as you described it.
The current X-Trail is a rather similar vehicle, but with (on paper bigger than the E-class estate) a mahoosive boot. ;-)
Not sure how the financials on one of those would stack up.
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X-Trail would be fairly cheap actually Tyred. Especially the 1.6d manual. Could I live with a manual? Maybe. Lots of motorway traffic jams to negotiate though...
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Just checked, X-Trail 1.6d manual n-tec ( enough toys ) £235 a month compared with my current car at £400 a month.
Ooooh Er now then...
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..I've always had manual on my own vehicles and never (until now) found that an issue - though not the sort of mileage you're doing.
My next car may well be an auto, however - partially because I've two knees, and insufficient cartilage for even one of them :-(
(and the left is the worst - driving a motorhome motorcaravan campervan doesn't exercise the right one much.... ;-) )
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Did you used to do something which knackered your knees? If of course that's publishable?
;-)
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...mountain biking...... ;-)
Actually, I've walked cycled and climbed for years - including carrying two kids (not both at the same time) in all those activities. The knees have had some real punishment in that time.
The left knee, however, emanates (I think) from a footballing injury (and genes, and old age).
Still managed 35 miles on the bike this morning, though :-)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Sun 8 May 16 at 20:58
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Good man !
You might actually be a genius re the X-Trail though...
Possibly very good call indeed.
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...you and I both know it'll be another E-Class (and stuff the Creme Eggs), but it's an interesting academic exercise....... ;-)
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No, genuinely, you have just set me on another thought course. Of course if it all ends badly I shall blame you...
;-)
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...that's not fair, I can't even run away.........
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Just keep that bike charged up.
;-)
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Runfer, are you seriously saying that to save a measly fiver a day you would rather spend hours sat in an X Trail rather than an E class?
You've gotta be joking
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I admit I haven't read the thread in detail - just back from holidays.
I assume it's been said there's a new, much better, and cleaner E Class? New diesel engine too I think. But the estate isn't out yet. Will be soon I should think.
Test drive the saloon.
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Nissan X-Fail? You gotta be kidding, RDH. What happened to estate cars, gentleman's express, all that blarney?
You get an X-Fail and before long you'll be wearing vests, getting tattoos and vaping. Boot full of unruly Staffies.
Good God, man.
Is there a Mondeo estate in that new fancy Vignale format?
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>> Is there a Mondeo estate in that new fancy Vignale format?
>>
If you are going to cough up for one of those, spend a bit more and have the real thing.
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I did ( quite accidentally ) get the chance to crawl about a Mondeo Vignale estate when they were first launched. They had one on display in the Trafford Centre one day when I was there.
Couldn't fault it really. Had everything possible bolted on and more. Steamy enough price though as WP alludes.
Ok then, as this has taken a turn towards a 'cool wall' debate, where does the panel place the various contenders on the CAP cool fence? Let it be a scale of 1-10 with 1 being the most uncool and 10 being Arctic...
Gentlemen, start your engines...
;-)
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My diesel Yaris = 0. It will probably morph into a Jazz, also = 0.
Do I care? Nahhh. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 9 May 16 at 10:17
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Anyway, if I went with the X-Trail suggestion, and it turned out to be the wrong decision, it wouldn't be my fault and you couldn't blame me. It'd be old Nobby No-Knees upthread you'd have to take it up with, I'd just be the poor victim of subversion.
;-)
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>>.... It'd be old Nobby No-Knees....
...whilst I may have no knees, at least I've always retained a full complement of mirrors. ;-)
Anyway, as retired campervanistas are wont, I've wafted (I'll set 'em up, you knock 'em in) in my 'van up to The Lakes to enjoy a few days good weather.
All you cruel lot can insult away behind my back as much as you wish.
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>>.... It'd be old Nobby No-Knees....
...whilst I may have no knees, at least I've always retained a full complement of mirrors. ;-)
Anyway, as retired campervanistas are wont, I've wafted (I'll set 'em up, you knock 'em in) in my 'van up to The Lakes to enjoy a few days good weather.
All you cruel lot can insult away behind my back as much as you wish.
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I am on the island of Jersey at the moment and if ever there was a place where people buy cars for status rather than travel then this must be it. The island is 7 miles by 5 and to be honest a bicycle would be the most sensible form of travel for most. You would think the place would an ideal environment for electric vehicles. The speed limit is a maximum 40mph with most roads restricted to 20mph. Green lanes are 15 mph
But no, St Helier is gridlocked every morning with expensive cars. I have seen everything from Bentleys to Range Rovers, from Lamborghinis to a Mercedes AMG Gt currently parked outside the hotel.
Me, I've been traveling around using the excellent bus service or walking.
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they probably fell they want to treat themselves or feel they have to have a car to match their status.
OT, what is jersey like, I know a few people in the family that went and were quite underwhelmed and unimpressed by the place.
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I are disappoint as well with Runfy. Not over car choice, but'cos he's been to the temple of Mammon called the Trafford Centre ! Probably due some benefit of doubt if coerced by Mrs Runf or he was there on business, flogging gladiator sandals to one of the many shoe outlets. ( Didn't they used to be called shops ?)
Nothing would get me in the place since the Model Shop closed down. Gone down in my esteem now, Runfy...get a Morris Traveller....you know it makes sense !
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>> >> Is there a Mondeo estate in that new fancy Vignale format?
>> >>
>> If you are going to cough up for one of those, spend a bit more
>> and have the real thing.
>>
Maybe the BIK is significantly cheaper than the E class, dunno. It's about that for Runfer, rather than the screen price. Although maybe the two are linked. The whole company car thing confuses the life out of me.
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That Ford Edge thing does get a very good write up on HJ...
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>> That Ford Edge thing does get a very good write up on HJ...
>>
It would be OK if you were a no knees mountain stomping boot salesman.
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I could diversify into that I suppose. And I'm sure there's a Kenny Rogers CD here somewhere.
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>> Ford Edge thing
I are disappoint.
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It wouldn't be my fault, it's the 'others' putting doubts in my mind...
;-)
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Maybe RDH, but you're the one I'll be shooting if you get one of those wretched pigs-on-stilts. Nissan, Ford, or any other marque.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 9 May 16 at 11:16
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You can't waft in an X-trail, a Qashqai or anything else breezeblock-shaped with a Nissan badge on it. A Mondeo can be a relaxed, quasi-wafty cruiser, and you'd have the added relaxing effect of all those Creme Eggs to look forward to each night.
One more thought: a Peugeot 508 estate. Looks biggish outside, if not quite E250-big (but 660-1,865 litres, according to Parkers, against 542-1,733 for a Mondeo and 695-1,950 for your E) and, with the right engine, is probably more wafty than a Mondeo. First decent-looking Peugeot for a while too.
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>>Peugeot 508 estate
Jock wants automatic. Pug 508 is fitted with the Jerky EGC (automated manual) automatic gearbox.
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Some are TC, Dog. The bigger more powerful ones. Which is what our Hibernian comrade will be after.
Also, EGCs are only jerky if driven by someone who doesn't know how to drive them.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 9 May 16 at 13:38
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>>Some are TC, Dog. The bigger more powerful ones. Which is what our Hibernian comrade will be after.
>>Also, EGCs are only jerky if driven by someone who doesn't know how to drive them.
Nice car the 508 vić , especially the estate version. An article here attempts to describe the differences between all the available autoboxes.
I have driven a car with an automated gearbox, which I would probably prefer to a CVT, but my wife wouldn't be able get on with one unfortunately, due to the fact she lacks an essential organ between her two ears.
www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/which-sort-of-automatic-gearbox-is-best/
:}
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I was thinking of the entry level manual 1.6 diesels, TBH. By the time you'd get a 2 litre automatic with all the toys, mightn't you be close enough to the list price of a E that the BIK wouldn't be all that different?
As I understand it, Runfer's employer is buying the car and hasn't been averse to spending on a good un in the past. So its the tax saving is the attraction in changing.
There would surely be some suitably smoooooooth big-engined auto in the Pug and Citroen ranges, though, if a change is on the cards. What else would France's bureaucrats and captains of industry waft about in?
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WdB: Where's Gromit to suggest a Subaru?
Away fettling the new addition to the Gromit fleet. Another Fiat...a Knaus campervan on a Ducato chassis. You (and Runfer) would love it ;-)
Anyhoo, suggesting an Outback would be too obvious, wouldn't it?!? Though maybe not, it seems they're no less juicy than Runfer's E.
What did catch my eye at 'my' dealership was the Pug 508. HJ's review says the station wagon has a 660 litre boot, or 1,865 litres with the seats down. And most of them are low enough CO2. But the hybrid is probably out: here in Ireland though, Pug are asking silly money for the diesel hybrid estate - you could have an Outback and a 107 instead...
Did I mention those Outbacks are really rather good, and reliable with it...?
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508. Yes. Good call, both of you.
Citroen C5 too.
Like them both.
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C5: Thought of them too Al, but the current one has been around since 2008 so maybe not as BIK friendly as newer models?
OTOH, there might be a deal to be done on a high spec run-out model at low cost if the boot was big enough...and a big Citroen must surely score well for wafting.
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Deals are great for private buyers, but company users in the UK are still tied to the list price, regardless of how much is actually paid for the car. So an old model with a high specific CO2, and hence a high BIK percentage, still has that percentage applied to its pre-discount list price.
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This is all very hard you know. Might have to do some actual work now to take my mind off it.
;-)
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But just before I do, HJ says those Edges are near silent at motorway speeds and have a huge loadspace and they do 48mpg...
Right, going to Denmark now...
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>> HJ says those Edges are near silent at motorway speeds
Fine if you like being transported in a baby bouncer.
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A friend has a new X Trail. Not sure of the model but it has everything on it and looks very smart in Black.
The eldest Daughter partakes in events that require her being driven all over the country so they must be knocking up considerable mileage 30K per yr at a guess
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Apparently X trails do not live long lives. They also have quite small clutches I believe.. I have been advised to avoid. In warranty of course they are splendid as is everything else!
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>Right, going to Denmark now...
I was there last week. Customer had scheduled work to begin on Monday (our Bank Holiday) for four days so I booked flight out on Sunday. On Friday they twigged that the Thursday was a Danish public holiday so they asked if I could work longer hours to get everything done by COB Wednesday. My Bank Holiday weekend completely stuffed.
Flight from LHR delayed by 1.5hrs because incoming flight was late. Boarded plane and they then had to remove and reload luggage because two passengers with checked luggage didn't board plane. Got to Copenhagen and they couldn't open the plane door and needed to call a spanner-man to fix it.
By now it's early evening and I needed to drive over 100 miles to get to my hotel.
Arrive at hotel to find that the restaurant isn't open on Sunday evening. Beer and pretzels for dinner.
The Storbaelt Bridge is impressive though.
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"[the MB 220]'s also officially the most economical contender, at a claimed 72.2mpg – although on test we found its 56.8mpg average lagged behind the 48.5mpg of the 520d."
No doubt very artsist to say so, but few journalists or politicians can, or can be bothered to, get numbers the right way up. Lawyers too, I've noticed, even though they are usually very bright. Beneath them I expect.
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The Merc's CO2 of 102 (according to figures at bottom of report) are pretty amazing for a large car that does 0-62 in 7.3s.
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The 102g/km for CO2 is for the SE model. But that is low. Means BIK rate for this could work out lower than some non-premium cars when depreciation/residuals are taken into account. There might be some good deals on company lease scheme for the new E class.
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>> The 102g/km for CO2 is for the SE model.
...as are the rest of the figures? I'm missing your point.
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>> ...as are the rest of the figures? I'm missing your point.
The AMG model (better spec, bigger wheels) is a few BIK tax bands higher. A 'better' car but but will cost more not only because of list price, lease/rental and also BIK.
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BIK takes no account of depreciation or residuals, only list price. But at 102g it may be 5% lower than the W212, which would be £66 a month less tax on a £40,000 car. Handy.
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>> The Merc's CO2 of 102 (according to figures at bottom of report) are pretty amazing
>> for a large car that does 0-62 in 7.3s.
It would certainly be amazing if it could do both at the same time.
The piece is written around contrasting the sporting nature and driver focus of the jagwar and bmw with the "softly set up" mb, as if she hasn't noticed that the first two are versions with 'sport' badges.
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>> >> The Merc's CO2 of 102 (according to figures at bottom of report) are pretty amazing
>> >> for a large car that does 0-62 in 7.3s.
>>
>> It would certainly be amazing if it could do both at the same time.
:)
Of course I meant in comparison with other cars - are there any others with similar/better figures? There may well be, and I'd be interested to know what they are.
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 10 May 16 at 09:45
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>> are there any others with similar/better figures?
I think the Audi A4 comes close, although not quite in the E's size category?
www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/audi/a4/saloon/20-tdi-190ps-ultra-sport_7572768/review
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Manatee sussed it, a BMW M Sport v a poverty spec Benz. (Assuming he didn't read the comments). :-)
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I saw it when I got to the table, hadn't noticed in the body. The Jag was a "R-Sport" too, not sure whether that is just cosmetic but it will include no doubt bigger wheels/lower profile tyres at the least.
Any would be nice of course. But of I could have one to take home it would be the MB (for preference) or the Jag (because it's made here). Newer Jags just seem to be trying a bit too hard somehow. I'd have to have one without the go-faster body kit.
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>> Manatee sussed it, a BMW M Sport v a poverty spec Benz. (Assuming he didn't
>> read the comments). :-)
>>
Prices were fairly even... perhaps they based it more on that... and the sportier Merc would have been too much money.
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Returning briefly to the Peugeot possibilities, I was very surprised to see the new 308 estate has the same 660 litre boot volume as the 508, and is only 90 litres shy of the bigger Pug at 1775 litres with the back seats down.
And they do it as a 2 litre diesel with torque converter auto.
If saving BIK is the goal, I wonder how much less useful boot space the 308 would actually give you compared to a similarly spec'd 508? Or, indeed, an entry-level E220?
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>> Or, indeed, an entry-level E220?
We'll have to wait to see what the new estate is like. The current one has varying boot capacity depending on engine choice.
You might think engine wouldn't make a difference to the load carrying capacity of the E-Class estate but it does. Go for the E220 BlueTEC and the AdBlue tank reduces load space to 600 litres with the rear seats in place and 1855 litres with them folded. The E300 BlueTEC hybrid is a little better at 650/1905 litres. The E250 CDI (so like Humph's) is 695/1950 litres.
With the seats down the E250 CDI has the same space as a Skoda Superb Estate.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 10 May 16 at 14:56
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There's the wafty question, though. Even if the on-paper carrying capacity translates into a show's-worth of Crocs, is it going to be a chore to get there in a smaller car? I don't know if there's any real physics at work here, but - other things being equal, of course - a larger car with a longer wheelbase makes for more relaxed cruising. I may be wrong but I don't look at a 308 and think, yeah baby, take me to the Côte d'Azur!
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WdB: I may be wrong but I don't look at a 308 and think, yeah baby, take me to the Cote d'Azur!
You're not wrong there WdB, but by Runfer's original logic that a more workaday car might yield a useful reduction in tax, running a 308 might just send him to the Cote d'Azur on hols with the savings...
If wafting trumps all though, I think we know where this is going ;-)
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If I were doing 34,000 miles a year, I would prefer not to have to do it in a 1.6 anything, let alone a manual - assuming that I or my company could afford for me not to. It's quite a lot of time to spend in a car - I used to do that sort of mileage some years ago - and comfort, and enough power, would be my main criteria even over BIK issues.
But if BIK really is an issue, you'd be fine in an upmarket Mondeo or Superb. As I may have said upthread, maybe wait till the new E-class estate and the V90 come out and then decide. And while that happens, this thread can keep running and challenge the one on Alanovic's pukka Saab,
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>>If I were doing 34,000 miles a year...
I'd want the base spec E-Class wearing the 'small' 17" wheels and non-sport suspension.
I'd definitely not want the MSport suspended BMW.
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>> But if BIK really is an issue, you'd be fine in an upmarket Mondeo or Superb.
What's wrong with a Superb? As big as an E-Class inside. And some decent spec models available. I'd not want the current (or previous) Mondeo.
The L&K Superb has most options as standard and it's about £30k.
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>> If I were doing 34,000 miles a year, I would prefer not to have to
>> do it in a 1.6 anything, let alone a manual - assuming that I or
>> my company could afford for me not to. It's quite a lot of time to
>> spend in a car - I used to do that sort of mileage some years
>> ago - and comfort, and enough power, would be my main criteria even over BIK
>> issues.
An interesting comparison occured to me.... I drive about 18k a year. This is split 15k commuting and 3k on other family duties. All have jumped on Runfer's 34k figure, but much of that is spent on the motorway I suspect. Whereas my 15k is spent on country rounds, and I average only about 30-35 mph, so takes nearly 2 hours a day. The other 3k is probably 50/50 local and motorway. I probably spend nearly the same time in the car as Runfer does.
A 1.6 diesel manual 307 (commuting) and a 1.6 diesel manual C4 Picasso (family).
For me 4k a year (even if I could afford it!) is not required, and I couldn't imagine spending 40 grand on a car (the 7.5k on the current C4 Picasso put me in a cold sweat for a week!) - but each to their own.
Is this going to be another 1k thread that results in the OP ending up with same car? Although hopefully not via a new gearbox! There are some steep hikes coming in BIK tax though over the next couple of years - 600 quid a year on Runf's current Jalopy.
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>> Is this going to be another 1k thread that results in the OP ending up with same car?
Well the new E-Class is out although estate is not available yet. So he can't have the same car as a company vehicle.
>> There are some steep hikes coming in BIK tax though over the next couple of years - 600 quid
>> a year on Runf's current Jalopy.
What hikes are these? I'm interested to know.
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Company cars are pretty much banned. Especially Audi A3 saloons. :)
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Not a problem. I could get over £500pm cash allowance instead. Audi A3 saloons are nicer than Mk2 Mazda6 hatchbacks IMO.
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6 grand a year cash or driving a rebadged Octavia?
Cash every time.
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I will have you know an Audi A3 Saloon is not as big as an Octavia and therefore not as practical :-)
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My driving instructor friend has recently taken delivery of his third consecutive A3. Always in 3 door 2.0 Tdi guise. He runs up about 55/60k miles pa in them...his first, on a 59 plate, now has 230k miles on it and has been passed down the chain to his son. His wife has the old 62 plate with only 145k miles on it. Obviously he thinks the cabin is a nice place to spend most of his life!
Last edited by: legacylad on Wed 11 May 16 at 06:54
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>>
>> What hikes are these? I'm interested to know.
>>
I have already linked to the BIK table somewhere above
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>> I have already linked to the BIK table somewhere above
Apologies for not reading the full thread .. I was in Greece when you posted that.
For me, my current choice of car would go from 14% BIK rate when I got it to 22% in 2018/2019. Except I'll have had to choose a different/new car in 2017. i'd be a further 3% worse off if it was a diesel.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 11 May 16 at 10:47
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>>What hikes are these? I'm interested to know.
Basically everything is going up 2 percentage points a year from 14/15 to 18/19 and then a 3 point hike in 19/20. So, Runf's car which is 138 g/km is going from 23% in 14/15 to 34% in 19/20 - a near 50% increase in the tax. Even zero emissions cars (which were zero rated in 14/15) will be 19% in 19/20.
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Just worked out that our all up motoring cost is nearing £7k a year....and that is on semi-bangernomics - depreciation accounts for 30%; fuel 40%!!
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I suppose £2,100 pa on depreciation is not bad, but then realised it depends how much it cost. If it was a £30k worth £28k one year later I would think that acceptable.
For a lower mileage driver such as myself, with minimal servicing, insurance & fuel costs, depreciation is by far the largest cost... Hence I'm looking for something which has already taken a big hit that will still have a decent residual value after 6 years ownership.
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Sounds like quite a lot to me, when it's for pretty ordinary (sorry Richard, no disrespect intended) machines - even if there are two of them.
If it was a £30k worth £28k one year later I would think that acceptable.
Can anyone think of an example that might achieve that?
I've just done a mental tot-up of our fleet and I came to about £4,000 for running (15,000 combined miles) and maybe another £4,000 in depreciation - which will diminish now the younger car is four years old. Bit more than Richard's flotte française but also bigger and more, erm, German. I'm now curious to know how Richard manages to spend more than me on running costs!
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Breaksdown like this:
Depreciation: £2000 (3k 307 to zero over 4 years; £7.5k C4 Pic to zero over 6 years)
Tax £320
Insurance: £500
MOT £100
Tyres £260 (2@£80 / year on the 307; 1 @ 100 /year on the C4 average)
Service: £100 (3 oil changes in total at £35 a time - I do my own)
Repairs: £750 (covers everything except oil changes; gone in a bit heavy as a new turbo and clutch on the C4 has bumped the costs up!)
Breakdown cover: £100
So that's £4130 before fuel....which I estimate at 1360 litres for the 307 (15k miles @ 50mpg) and 1070 litres for the C4 (10k miles at 42.5 mpg) so total of £2673 at today's price of £1.10.
Gives a total of £6803
Expensive business this getting around!!
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But they wouldn't be worth £zero, would they? With an MOT, should get at least £300 for the 307, and more for the Picasso.
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Both likely to be scrap by the time they go.... might get a few quid at the scrappers, but that will be a bonus - won't make a huge amount of difference to annual cost estimate! Plan is to continue to run both until one irrevocably breaks, then I will use the remaining one for work and get a newer one for family duties.
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Well, in the end, it came down to a shortlist of three. Another E class estate, an Audi A6 Avant or a BMW 5 series touring.
Got back from a trip abroad at silly o'clock on Thursday morning, grabbed a few hours kip and then spent the day poking around dealers looking at and generally playing with their cars.
The Audi was very very nice, especially in the Ultra trim with all the toys, the BMW was also a fine thing in M Sport spec but in the long run the deals on the run out Es were irresistible.
So...as might have been predicted, the new one will be another E. It has one of the longest model names ever, not sure you could actually say it all in one breath but here goes...
Mercedes E220 auto estate AMG Night Edition Premium
They don't do the 250 engine anymore so the choice was limited to the 350 or the 220. Strangely enough the 350 wasn't too bad to buy, or indeed in respect of bik but it would have worked out at about £25 a month more than I'm currently paying and £70 a month more than the 220. Given the sea of cameras etc we now drive around in I decided that 170 bhp would enough and that £70 a month was a lot of Creme Eggs. ( and the 220 now does nigh on 60 mpg )
The one I've ordered is going to be silver with black leather and a panoramic sunroof, memory seats, reversing camera ( handy enough when fully laden I guess ) sports suspension, and well, lots of twiddly bits bolted on.
Should get it in a week to ten days.
Happy enough.
Thanks for all the input and suggestions ( but you knew what would happen anyway didn't you, even if I didn't ! )
;-)
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Yes we did...
Nice large panoramic roof too. Sounds very wafty.
As for horses, you can never have enough, as my pal with the A45 AMG told me this week. He has 380 and is changing the air filter & exhaust to give a few more! I suppose two incomes, no kids, electrician working all over the UK on contract jobs has its perks.
Still no sign of a 328 Touring ( with pano roof, auto, black or red oyster leather & square wheels yet in grey or blue > not the wheels<)
This time next week I'll be walking!
Give you £1k for it mister as a put me on, plus a Petzl head torch for when you get lost in the forest at night
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Enjoy it..you can't take it with you
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>>.....Night Edition Premium....
>>
...electric windows that automatically drop when they sense a red light.....?
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>> Well, in the end, it came down to a shortlist of three. Another E class
>> estate, an Audi A6 Avant or a BMW 5 series touring..................
>> but in the long
>> run the deals on the run out Es were irresistible.
From time to time I am tempted...
Autotrader has 23 new E220s, all priced at £27,000 and all in Scotland (why is that?)
Shall I - shan't I?
Last edited by: Duncan on Sat 14 May 16 at 11:57
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Duncan, for £26k you can have a Motorpoint 15 plate E300 Hybrid SE estate with sub 10k miles n a nice metallic grey. No sunroof unfortunately, but sensible sized wheels. I have absolutely no idea how an E300 hybrid compares to an E220d either peformance wise, Bik or in residual value.
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>> Duncan, for £26k you can have a Motorpoint 15 plate E300 Hybrid SE estate with
>> sub 10k miles n a nice metallic grey. No sunroof unfortunately, but sensible sized wheels.
>> I have absolutely no idea how an E300 hybrid compares to an E220d either peformance
>> wise, Bik or in residual value.
Yes, I saw that.
If you can manage with the saloon, then a 15 reg E220 CDI is available for £22,500. I have moved away from sunroofs, but I do prefer sensible sized wheels. That's a big saving!
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>> Autotrader has 23 new E220s, all priced at £27,000 and all in Scotland (why is
>> that?)
Taste thing Duncan, obviously.
;-)
Doing lots of tip runs etc today. You don't take your new car to the tip for a while do you? Not right is it.
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...I never take my car to the tip - that's the current Mrs n'emotional's job.......
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I took my wife with me. She likes a day out.
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...it's the novelty of being able to see behind.........
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Indeed, I may not exactly mention the memory seats on the new one. One of the reasons she doesn't drive the current one much is because I'm incredibly fussy about getting my seat back where I like it and it usually takes about a week after someone else has driven it to achieve that. Quite a wide car too...
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Now if you had bought a certain 12yo 330 you would have had a 3 memory drivers leccy seat. Useful for the cleaner when she hitches up the trailer to do the tip run for ewe. Tsk.
Thought about my offer yet? Sadly the 98yo Aunt is unlikely to return to independent living after hip surgery so I shall be refurbing her 2 bed flat top to bottom. Short term Mondeo estate now on the cards early next month when I return from sunnier climes.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sat 14 May 16 at 14:05
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Current Merc chopped in against the new one. Mondeo estate will be disturbingly good if you've not had one before.
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Looking forward to getting an oldish Mondeo estate, although would consider a Focus estate if one came along. Last Ford I had was a D reg XR 4x4
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One of them there Mondeo STs might be fun. Even the diesel ones were swift enough but the petrol ones were very quick, if a bit thirsty. Last of the line ones were 2007 I want to think.
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>> Looking forward to getting an oldish Mondeo estate.....
..just don't make it a pre-2000 1.8TD (unless you're good at roundabout roulette) ;-)
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I had a couple of those and yes, you're quite right, slow as a slow thing. Reliable though.
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...I arranged to swap my (unreliable, but with a history) 2 litre petrol fleet Mondeo Estate for a newer 1.8TD one when the previous owner departed the company.
I didn't find it particularly slow, it just had a ginormous amount of turbo lag. You could write a letter home in the time between flooring the accelerator and getting any response.
It made entering busy roundabouts an interesting proposition (as in one of those "did you know that adrenaline is brown" moments).
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When was 'N' reg? Well whenever that was, "She" wanted a new car and we bought her a then new Corsa 1.2 petrol. Looked a bit like a frog in a mid green metallic. Had a sunroof mind you.
Anyway, she liked it and for no reason I can remember it was quite some time before I got around to driving it.
Got in it and set off on the 25 mile or so journey to civilisation from where we lived in the Scottish Borders along the A701, which for those who don't know it, is a fabulous driving road in parts with hairpins, hills, fast open stretches and very light traffic.
I pulled out to overtake a van on a rising straight, thinking to outgun it with ease on the hill.
Nothing, nada, zilch acceleration. Dropping gears only made more noise but no more progress.
Had to pull back in behind the van in deep shame. That thing had no useable power at all.
Hateful thing.
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>> Quite a wide car too...
>>
....I understand she could easily sort that......
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Oh yes, in no time at all.
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Perfect for airports runs to terminal 3? Sounds like a cheaper version of an e class
;-)
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The Es tend to be more about T5...
;-)
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A pecking order of terminal numbers? Well I suppose you do live in Cheshire.
;-)
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Yes, that is a worry, I may have been infected. No medallions yet though, and I've still got manual garage doors and gates.
;-)
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Give it time you'll soon be looking at powered garage door brochures.
:-)
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Oh come on Runfer! We all know that Clarkson's childish 'reviews' are not worth the pixels they're written on!
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Well, I got it today, and to give it its Sunday name it's a, Mercedes, E Class, E220, Bluetec, Night Edition, Premium, Estate.
I was going to tell you a lot more about it but my finger got tired typing the above. Anyway, in short, it's very nice indeed in silver with a black leather interior, reversing camera, sat nav, privacy glass, panoramic glass roof, LED lights , funky black and silver 18" wheels fitted with Pirelli P Zeros, memory seats with clever adjustable side bolsters to transform them from a comfort setting to a more body hugging mode, oh, and lots of other things apparently.
Not much more to say yet as I've only driven it the 20 miles or so back from the ( very helpful ) dealer so far.
If it proves as good as the last one I'll be more than happy.
I'll let you know...
Oh and I got them to fit number plates with the little blue GB insert and the wee circle of EU stars, mainly because it will be going out of the country fairly often but also because there's no chance of an out majority...
;-)
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Bravo, Humph. Funnily I thought about you and this matter earlier today and wondered about reviving this thread to ask you.
Presumably it's an S212 with the 2.1 engine. How's that for carbons compared to your old one (or my even older 191g car)?
Oh and I got them to fit number plates with the little blue GB insert and the wee circle of EU stars...
Quite right too. I did the same with mine last year. 'Flag of a foreign power' as the generally sane Londoner said here once.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Wed 25 May 16 at 20:21
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>> Quite right too.
Just realised that while Fleur (Mrs B's 'lingo) has these Fritz the Roomie does not. Need to remedy that as I'd happily take the Skoda over there on a non caravan trip.
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You can always buy one of these if the election goes the wrong way.
www.stickittotheeu.uk/index.html
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Dunno about carbons but it gets me £43 worth of Creme Eggs a month more than my old one and £70 worth more than a 350 would have, so all good really.
Just been out for a razz round the lanes on my way to and from a swim and so far anyway it seems sprightly enough. Not quite the gob of torque I got from the 250 but the seven gears on the new one as opposed to the 5 gears on the old one disguise the lower bhp quite well.
It has stop/start which I've so far resisted disabling but it does irritate me a bit for now. I may get used to it.
The other thing I'll have to adapt to is the column mounted gear shift and I've had to repeat a little "back up, drive down" mantra to myself to stop myself having to look.
The bumph claims nearly 60 mpg. Well, we will see...
No spare tyre, there's a tank full of cow wee where that should be and a tyre inflator thingy. Asked the salesman what happens when I split a sidewall and he assured me that I simply call an emergency hotline from anywhere in Europe 24/7 and a nice man will bring a free replacement car, book me a free hotel if required and take mine away to get a ( not free ) new tyre. Again, we will see...
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>>I simply call an emergency hotline from....
Perhaps. But I'd still see if I could find some kind of space saving thing that I could use if I was stuck down a lonely country road in the pouring rain in the middle of the night without a cell signal.
Sometimes the ability just to drive one more mile can reduce a disaster to merely a bad thing.
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>> No spare tyre, there's a tank full of cow wee where that should be and
>> a tyre inflator thingy. Asked the salesman what happens when I split a sidewall and
>> he assured me that I simply call an emergency hotline from anywhere in Europe 24/7
>> and a nice man will bring a free replacement car, book me a free hotel
>> if required and take mine away to get a ( not free ) new tyre.
>> Again, we will see...
>>
Having almost been stranded in our S-Max which has the same gunk, I would personally never rely on this system again. We were due to drive to the Alps very early one Sunday morning and I discovered a nail in one of the winter tyres at 9.00 the night before.
Fortunately we had a spare vehicle to use, but if we hadn't have then I am sure that the emergency services would not have been able to help.
I hope you have better luck!
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>> No spare tyre, there's a tank full of cow wee where that should be and
>> a tyre inflator thingy.
>>
Does the cow wee tank have an adapter (funnel) for personal emergency use?
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Senior Service habits die hard, eh? I don't think I could be driven to those levels of thirst on the mainland.
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I think ON is referring to the reverse-thirst that can afflict the, erm, older gentleman.
}8---]
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You have it all to look forward to, Will...
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I did realise that Will, but, oh, never mind.........
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I would have thought a car of LEC stature would be plumbed in from all seats.
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As my car will never venture across the channel I will be buying some of the plainest legal plates without any flags etc cluttering them up.
The car came with suppliers name and euro flag.
My son got such plates from ( to my surprise) Halfords.
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>>... to give it its Sunday name it's a, Mercedes, E Class, E220, Bluetec, Night Edition, Premium, Estate.
Just looked again, and I forgot to include the "AMG" malarkey which should be after Bluetec and before Night Edition...
You really couldn't say all that down the pub could you if anyone asked? It's only just barely acceptable in present company.
Think I'll stick to "the new LEC" for future reference...but then that's all lashed up when they do bring out a new new LEC isn't it?
I thought this was going to get easier now a decision has been made...
;-)
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Think I'll stick to "the new LEC" for future reference...but then that's all lashed up
>> when they do bring out a new new LEC isn't it?
How about NAT? New airport taxi.
;-)
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>> Think I'll stick to "the new LEC" for future reference...
Is this the new, new, latest, latest, model. The one that is just coming out? Because without looking, I thought it had a 2 litre engine?
No?
Do any E Class have a spare wheel now?
I must have a wander round MB at Brooklands soonish.
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Don't think the S213 has arrived here yet, Duncan. I'm going to Germany again the week after next, so I'll look out for one there. (Although my German colleagues prefer Audis and, er, Volvos.)
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Far easier to say 'C63' down t'pub
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...except that 15mpg will mean you can't afford t'pub.
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>>Well, I got it today,
Congratulations, I hope you enjoy it.
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".... what happens when I split a sidewall and he assured me that I simply call an emergency hotline from anywhere in Europe,,,,"
Runfer, I do sincerely hope that you don't split a sidewall, or get any other irrepairable puncture on any of the 30,000 miles of UK roads (let alone abroad) where there is no mobile reception. I would hate that to happen to you, but I would love it to happen to the besuited pen-pusher who decided - at least for the Mercedes GLA that I tried - that there wouldn't even be room to put a space-saver.
Maybe there is room for a space-saver with the E-class: well worth investigating.
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Not for a car originally designed to take a spare wheel and later needing to accommodate a large tank of the cow wee as you say.
I wonder how the new E class copes. Does it have a spare?
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By brother has a new VW Sharan. It has no spare and no space for one, as it has a cow wee tank. He has only had it six months, but it has already had a trip on a low loader due to a ripped sidewall.
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Have I missed a meeting? What is this "cow wee" reference? Surely it's not a tank for storing Carling Black Label?
I are confuse.
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Stuff called Adblue, something to do with saving penguins and is allegedly made from cow wee.
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I see. Nice car, wish I could stretch to one. Enjoy.
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I'd not be having it if someone wasn't paying ! But I'd buy an older one in a heartbeat if circumstances required.
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>> Sadly there isn't.
>>
Is it this one?
tinyurl.com/hsznsf2
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That one (silver) appears to have a mirror from another car (black). Have you started already?
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 26 May 16 at 09:56
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It's called style Will, I'll explain to you one day...
;-))
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Don't think I'm going to draw Lady D'Hills attention to the memory seats though. I limited her access to the old one on the basis that it took ages to get the seat back where I wanted it after she had driven it...it might indeed be a tad "wide" for her...
:-(
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If Mrs Beest is any guide, it's not the car that's too wide, it's the rest of the world that's too narrow.
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>> It looks exactly like this one Duncan ( apart from the plate of course )
>>
Right. I didn't realise that you were going for the estate (again?).
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>> Right. I didn't realise that you were going for the estate (again?).
That's the E in LEC :)
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>> >> Right. I didn't realise that you were going for the estate (again?).
>>
>> That's the E in LEC :)
>>
Ah? Ahem.
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>> It looks exactly like this one Duncan ( apart from the plate of course )
>>
>> pictures2.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media.jpg?id=5b7d385c506342598c8ea529023f2df3&width=640&height=480
Looks a lot nicer than what I had in mind. Just hope the suspension's good if your rubber bands tyres are as thick as the ones in the photo :)
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Same suspension settings and tyre sizes as the old one actually. Surprisingly and delightfully wafty despite that.
Having said that, it's going to Liverpool tomorrow so it may not have any wheels by tomorrow night...
;-)
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>> Having said that, it's going to Liverpool tomorrow so it may not have any wheels
>> by tomorrow night...
>>
>> ;-)
>>
Or in a shipping container on its way to somewhere hot and sunny. :-)
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Keighley on t' Leeds Liverpool canal?
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Found out yesterday that "my" old one will be going to auction ( don't know where or when sadly ) as it has too many miles for the Merc dealer to want to resell it.
Somebody is going to get an absolute cracker of a car if they get that one at the right price. It genuinely felt like it would have just shrugged it's shoulders if it had been asked to do another 160,000 and said "Yeah, and?"
;-)
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I thought you said many moons ago that your employer only permitted black company cars?!
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That is still the case for er, um, the rank and file so to speak...
;-)
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If it wasn't black I'd be tempted to make a bid for the old one. You were an ex-smoker by the time you got it, weren't you?
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Likewise... I've been a week without my own car now. The stop gap Focus should have been available last weekend and I've been told it could be at least another week. Visiting the 98yo in a Nursing Home is problematic, and the holiday idea has been shelved because people are ringing me up asking me to work... A backlog of 3 large privet hedges, 3 garage doors to sand & paint, lots of wrought ironwork needing attention, not to mention patios to pressure wash & lots of lawns to mow!
I can walk to some of the jobs, but without a car to transport the mower, pressure washer, hose, work platform for the hedges I'm stuffed!
I think commissions for the private buyer at auction are prohibitive.
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>>not to mention patios to pressure wash & lots of lawns to mow!
>>
>> I can walk to some of the jobs, but without a car to transport the
>> mower, pressure washer, hose, work platform for the hedges I'm stuffed!
>>
There is evidence that pressure washing harms the surface of patios.
May I suggest some chin stroking, head shaking and teeth sucking, followed by - weeelll, I don't think that's a good idea.
That's another job I've saved you!
Last edited by: Duncan on Fri 27 May 16 at 12:20
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>>There is evidence that pressure washing harms the surface of patios.
>>
My patio slabs have been affected. The " erosion" varies, fortunately just a few slabs are worse than all the others.
The slabs are a well known brand and are cast with a coloured riven surface.
The patio is north facing and I need to ensure I am not looking at a green patio so I have to attack it to ensure SWMO feels save walking on it.
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One worry I had been trying not to think about was whether the roof mounted bike racks would foul the opening sunroof.
Anyway, rack now installed and Yay! It's fine, not much more that a gnat's wotsit of clearance but it doesn't touch.
Time for a windrush test now methinks...
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Probably OK with the bike racks but best avoid opening it when you have your big roof box on.
Pal of mine did this years ago with one of those aftermarket pop-up sun roofs, to let in air rather than sun of course. It shattered with the ram air effect, covering the occupants in little cubes of toughened glass.
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That's a bit scary
Though I have to say that both my 5 Series and my Cavalier had sunroofs and I used to regularly have them open with my boards on the rack. The Cavalier's was certainly glass, though I can't remember the BMW's.
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Probably OK with a frame such as a standard built in roof would have. May not be good for the mechanism though.
The one that broke was the cheapo aftermarket type of the kind popular in the 1980s - a sheet of dark glass, three holes, two hinges and one folding latch.
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To E or not to E that is the question... - mikeyb
