Non-motoring > Brussels explosions	Green Issues
Thread Author: No FM2R	Replies: 78

New Tue 22 Mar 16 14:11   Brussels explosions - No FM2R

Bit surprised there's nothing in here about this... www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 14:26   Brussels explosions - CGNorwich

Not much to say that hasn't already need said. Went to a bold donor session this morning where 30 or so people gave their time without financial benefit to benefit and possibly save the life of unknown strangers. Am bemused that others who claim to be human are prepared to randomly kill unknown strangers. It makes me feel very sad. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 14:37   Brussels explosions - Roger.

I'm sure some of you will be relieved to know that, as usual, "it's nothing to do with Islam". Reply to this message | Report message       7

New Wed 23 Mar 16 09:12   Brussels explosions - R.P.

It's nothing to do with religion Roger. It's all to do with Fascism - they don't really care about who they really kill. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 09:22   Brussels explosions - WillDeBeest

Save your breath, RP. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 23 Mar 16 09:27   Brussels explosions - No FM2R

Really don't bother, you're not making a distinction he can understand. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 12:59   Brussels explosions - Roger.

It has nothing to do with "Fascism". (An easy sound-bite epithet thrown about by those who do not know what Fascism is). It is everything to do with the declared objective of Islam that there should be a world-wide Caliphate run, both socially and politically according to the tenets of a primitive Arab desert war lord. So called "moderate" Muslims absolutely MUST adhere to this aim, even if, as with other religions there are schisms and differences as to how this end may be achieved. As in many societies where there is an overwhelming objective, those who are on the fanatical edge exert a far stronger influence on their co-religionists than their absolute numbers warrant. Moslem society is by and large, strictly patriarchal and it only take a few to impose their will on the many. In most Western countries the incomer Moslem population are self-isolated and are thus a breeding ground for perpetuation of the lifestyle and beliefs of the generally ill-educated and backward countries from which they have come. (As a by the way, it is reckoned by some observers that it is likely that Brussels will be the first city in Europe to have a majority Muslim population - as early as in 20 years by some estimates) Political Islamists see their raison d'etre as a Holy War, or Jihad, against the West whose morals , lifestyle and beliefs they abhor. The sooner we realise that developed Western Civilisation is under severe attack, the sooner it will be that effective resistance can begin. Mealy mouthed platitudes will not do. Reply to this message | Report message       3

New Wed 23 Mar 16 13:32   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> It is everything to do with the declared objective of Islam that there should be >> a world-wide Caliphate run, both socially and politically according to the tenets of a primitive >> Arab desert war lord. That is not a declared objective of Islam. >> Mealy mouthed platitudes will not do. Nor will nasty bitter and twisted ignorant racists Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 23 Mar 16 14:45   Brussels explosions - Roger.

...or soft-headed, zero brained, apologists for our declared enemies. Reply to this message | Report message       4

New Wed 23 Mar 16 15:31   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> ...or soft-headed, zero brained, apologists for our declared enemies. Bitter and twisted. The only reason you hate the EU is because you lost all your money in spain Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 23 Mar 16 18:08   Brussels explosions - Roger.

>> Bitter and twisted. The only reason you hate the EU is because you lost all >> your money in spain 100% not true at all. Yes, we took a big hit on the sale of our Spanish home, but it was our decision. Big hits were taken by sellers, at that time, in the UK and other counties too. We returned to Britain with sufficient money to byuya modest house for cash. Our opposition to Britain joining what has become, as intended, the E.U. State, started with the original, so-called Common Market, referendum in which both my wife and I voted NO. We enjoyed continental holidays before the EU and during our ten year "holiday" in Spain brought money into the country, made no unfunded expense claims on Spain and paid all our Spanish taxes. We respected Spanish laws, customs and mores, making no waves in our quiet lives! Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 23 Mar 16 14:49   Brussels explosions - smokie

The world-wide Caliphate may not, as such, be a declared objective of Islam but that would essentially the outcome of their teaching in some Islamist branches, whether you like it or not. Did you read Manatee's post of 10:04 below, which tallies with my understanding of where the issues lie. Last night there was an ITV program called Exposed: Saudi Arabia, where a guy took an enormous risk to capture film of daily life. In one small section the narrator (a Saudi by birth) talked about the schools teaching all Saudi children that Christians should be executed. I've read more on that today (as it is of interest) and it's more like anyone who rejects Sharia should be executed.There was discussion on how the Saudis have massively funded initiatives to spread that thought around the world, as well as funding pro-Sharia activities to stir trouble (Bosnia was mentioned). You could also google for the conversations between Morsi and Zawahiri (Al Qaeda bigwig) on Morsi's election to office to get a further flavour for reality. Wikipedia says Sharia law is "the religious legal system governing the members of the Islamic faith", and goes on to talk about the different branches.Jihad is an Islamic concept. As with all religions, Islam has people who observe it strictly and others who are more liberal. There is an undeniable pattern about the perps of the worst atrocities we've seen recently. They have one thing in common, which is their belief (call it a religion, facism or whatever you want, it's the same at the end of the day). It's hardly racist to draw that conclusion is it? Or are you slagging off Roger just because he's Roger? The show is here. www.itv.com/hub/exposure-saudi-arabia-uncovered/2a4227a0001 Reply to this message | Report message       4

New Wed 23 Mar 16 15:38   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> The world-wide Caliphate may not, as such, be a declared objective of Islam >> >>Or are you slagging off Roger just because >> he's Roger? He said it was. Thats why I slagged him off. And he is an out and out racist. Of the very worse kind, the kind that likes to whip up hatred, and then use it as justification. You could of course have made a program about what supremacists in the USA who stock up on weapons and who's avowed aim is to overthrow the government of the USA. They go to church. I blame Christianity. Last edited by: Zero on Wed 23 Mar 16 at 15:40 Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 23 Mar 16 15:50   Brussels explosions - smokie

But they aren't the ones committing atrocities around the world are they... I'm not sure that anyone has ever suggested that religion isn't at the bottom of a lot of oppressive behaviour. You can bring up the US supremacists in the next KKK thread, seems like a valid point :-) So just so as I understand my isms, am I allowed to reach the conclusion that Islamic State and it's actions are connected to Islam, and if I do is that a racist conclusion? Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 23 Mar 16 16:01   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> So just so as I understand my isms, am I allowed to reach the conclusion >> that Islamic State and it's actions are connected to Islam, Its not of course, and that the point. and if I do is >> that a racist conclusion? No because you are not insisting that all of Islam is our avowed enemy and all muslims are evil. >>But they aren't the ones committing atrocities around the world are they... No? check out the link to fundamentalist jewish groups. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 17:31   Brussels explosions - Manatee

>> >> >> So just so as I understand my isms, am I allowed to reach the >> conclusion >> >> that Islamic State and it's actions are connected to Islam, >> >> Its not of course, and that the point. What? You cannot be serious. The subset of Islamic ideology that rules in Saudi Arabia is the basis for IS's practices. www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html There is still believed to be much support for IS within Saudi, notwithstanding that the Saudis are fielding some resources against IS in Syria. No doubt Saudi wants to show the west that it is on the 'right' side, and maybe has finally realised that IS is also a danger to its own ruling class. >> No? check out the link to fundamentalist jewish groups. What link, I can't find it? Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 23 Mar 16 17:54   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> >> >> >> >> So just so as I understand my isms, am I allowed to reach >> the >> >> conclusion >> >> >> that Islamic State and it's actions are connected to Islam, >> >> >> >> Its not of course, and that the point. >> >> What? You cannot be serious. The subset of Islamic ideology that rules in Saudi Arabia >> is the basis for IS's practices. The subset of Islamic Ideology that exists in Saudi Arabia is NOT that employed by ISIS, and certainly not the destruction of all infidels and creation of a global caliphate by force. >> There is still believed to be much support for IS within Saudi, Proof? >> >> No? check out the link to fundamentalist jewish groups. >> >> What link, I can't find it? You can't find a link between Radical Jewish groups and fundamental right wing US groups? Maybe because that does not exist in the kind of articles and sources you seem to use to colour your thinking. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 18:10   Brussels explosions - Manatee

>> You can't find a link between Radical Jewish groups and fundamental right wing US groups? >> Maybe because that does not exist in the kind of articles and sources you seem >> to use to colour your thinking. I inferred that you were directing me to a hyperlink within the thread. As for Saudi support for IS, well King Salman flatly denies it so you must be right. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 20:06   Brussels explosions - smokie

Last night's programme (linked above) showed how Saudi had directly funded Al Qaeda and ISIS. Worth watching. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 23 Mar 16 16:07   Brussels explosions - WillDeBeest

But they aren't the ones committing atrocities around the world are they? Aren't they? Compare the number of civilians killed in Muslim countries since the start of the US-led 'War on Terror' (how's that going, by the way, or after 15 years is it too soon to say?) with the total from New York, Madrid, London, Paris, now Brussels and any other anti-Western atrocity you care to include. The ones keenest on bashing the brown people into righteousness are the god-bothering right wing of any nation you choose to include. Roger, to his credit, doesn't bother a god, but he's forgetting that white folks kill people for their religion too. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 20:12   Brussels explosions - Roger.

> And he is an out and out racist. Of the very worse kind, the kind that likes to whip up >> hatred, and then use it as justification. > Oh dear Zero - have you not realised that shouting "racist" at people who advocate political views with which you disagree has become so last year? It fails to resonate these days and is argumentatively a "fail". Perhaps you should don your anorak and resume your hobby of trainspotting - surely you have not written down all the engine numbers in your little pocketbook yet? Reply to this message | Report message       3

New Wed 23 Mar 16 09:48   Brussels explosions - legacylad

I'm not stirring it, honestly, but aren't all of these suicide bombers supposedly some kind of radical Islamists? I know that they are an infinitely small percentage of people whose religion is Islam, but you don't get people whose supposed belief is Quaker, Methodist, Mormon, Buddhist commiting these atrocities do you? Maybe their religion isn't Islam, or some extreme form of it, but they were probably born into it. Doesn't reflect well on it does it, but then I've never had any interest in any religion and my ignorance of such is pitiful. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 23 Mar 16 10:31   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> religion is Islam, but you don't get people whose supposed belief is Quaker, Methodist, Mormon, >> Buddhist commiting these atrocities do you? Indeed you do. Sikhs - loads to be said about them and laid at their door. And check out Buddist and Hindu militants. Show me a religion, and at some in in its history I'll show you violence perpetrated in its name. Last edited by: Zero on Wed 23 Mar 16 at 10:32 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 11:04   Brussels explosions - Kevin

>Show me a religion, and at some in in its history I'll show you violence perpetrated in its name. Pastafarianism. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 11:18   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> >Show me a religion, and at some in in its history I'll show you violence >> perpetrated in its name. >> >> Pastafarianism The Bolognese wars of 1542. Particularly b***** Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 12:20   Brussels explosions - Crankcase

The bolognese wars? I thought that was the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Edit. I'm a buffoon, but hey, stet. Observation withdrawn. Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 23 Mar 16 at 12:21 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 12:25   Brussels explosions - Alanovich

After extensive attempts at brainwashing from their fairly religious school, and its quite strident and insistent RS teacher, my children have decided they want to become Pastafarians. I are quite proud, even though they are breaking with my long-held and deeply treasured religion, Crapfiatism. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 10:04   Brussels explosions - Manatee

It has everything to do with religion. And facism. That isn't to say that Muslims are bad. We know that Islamists (if anybody thinks that means Muslims, look it up) are a minority of that religion and that militant Islamists are a minority of those. If they were all we had to worry about then it would be bad enough and they would still be hard to eradicate. Unfortunately, as we have seen, a small number has been able to hold sway over entire cities by using its professed religion (and that of the population) to oppress them. IS is first and foremost a problem of (not a problem with) the Muslim population. Western Europe is suffering terror attacks; we do not live under the rule of a global 'caliphate', a state run on Islamic principles and rigid Sharia. But that is IS's declared (long term) objective. Its objective for now is to establish such a caliphate in majority Muslim territories - not countries, it is eradicating the borders where it can expand its rule. It was right to talk to the IRA, for which killing UK citizens was a means to an end. The IRA did not seek the destruction of the UK. The aim of IS is the destruction of the west and the establishment of that global caliphate. In this respect our position is similar to that of Israel, much criticised for its uncompromising behaviour in regard to enemies whose aim is not any sort of concession but that "Israel must be wiped off the map". There is no negotiating with that. The response of the west must go beyond striking at militant Islamists wherever they can be found (although that looks like a good idea too). Even more important is anything that can be done to aid the overwhelming majority of Muslims, who do not want to live under a fascist, fundamentalist version of Sharia law, to resist it. I have no idea how best to do that, but avoiding classifying Muslims generally as the problem seems like a good place to start (Trump take note). Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 23 Mar 16 10:27   Brussels explosions - WillDeBeest

You might argue that it's a potential problem in (or even with) any religion. Belief in an invisible, unchallengeable divine authority makes suggestible people (which believers must, by definition, be) vulnerable to exploitation by humans who claim that divine authority for themselves. You can see parallels in the US Christian Right, the Hindu nationalists in parts of India, and the militant Zionists who have driven Israel's expansionism. They're all wrong, but enough people believe them to make them dangerous. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 14:38   Brussels explosions - RattleandSmoke

Their aim is to disrupt Europe and other Western societies and I fear it is slowly working :(. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 15:23   Brussels explosions - smokie

My Belgian buddy from motor racing was due to fly into Brussels today, as he's out in Florida at the race I chose to skip this year. Thankfully he wasn't even airborne when it happened and is now looking for another way to get home. I've been watching events unfold (over and over again!) on Sky News. I see they now have a death toll of innocent people going about their day in the mid 30s and injuries nearly at 200. I guess we oughtn't be surprised. If it is IS, which looks fairly sure, I imagine they would have wanted to prove that Abdeslam wasn't crucial to them, and that they're not impacted by his alleged singing like a canary. It's a disgusting way for these people to make their point, whatever that is, and is greatly magnified when they carry out simultaneous events, creating fear and uncertainty in everyone. The Belgian PM has recently said that Brussels should be ready for more. A UKIP press spokesman is in bother as he has questioned Schengen, but it is more his timing than the principle which he seems to have got wrong. Lastly I can't decide whether those who have taken film and pics on their phone are brave or stupid. I think it's a mixture, but in one or two clips I saw I did think that the person should be getting on with reaching safety, and not getting in the way of others just for the sake of capturing carnage for us to gawp at. It is, however, chilling, especially the footage just on from someone laying on the floor of the departure terminal shortly after the airport explosion. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 15:32   Brussels explosions - Armel Coussine

One of my oldest friends and his Mrs are Belgians who live in Brussels. I know Brussels is a big place and they are unlikely to have been touched, but I can't help worrying a bit. Just as they worried about us when there were London outrages. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 15:33   Brussels explosions - Old Navy

A few people have been complaining that the Jeremy Kyle show was not shown this morning due to the Brussels attack coverage. Apparently it is the highlight of their day. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 15:39   Brussels explosions - Lygonos

>>A few people have been complaining that the Jeremy Kyle show was not shown this morning I saw the scumbag on TV while visiting the old man last week - apparently he now has a daytime show from hospital (with patients sporting the obligatory tats and mouthbreathing look). I (and I expect everyone else) don't really want a close up of a giant scrotum at 2.30pm, even if it has some vague medical educational value about hydroceles or hernias. After Mr Bawbag-in-a-wheelbarrow, the trailer for what was coming up after the break was "My lactating breasts are driving me mad". Managed to find the remote before the adverts finished. Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 22 Mar 16 at 15:40 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 15:47   Brussels explosions - Old Navy

I have never watched it, don't plan to, one of life's joys I am prepared to miss. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 16:05   Brussels explosions - Armel Coussine

>> Managed to find the remote before the adverts finished. Yuck... but such squeamishness is slightly surprising in one of your profession Lygonos. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 16:20   Brussels explosions - Haywain

"but such squeamishness is slightly surprising in one of your profession Lygonos." Yes, but Lygo has to understand his customers ............ never been in an A&E waiting room, AC? ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 15:43   Brussels explosions - Robin O'Reliant

>> A few people have been complaining that the Jeremy Kyle show was not shown this >> morning due to the Brussels attack coverage. >> And they have a very good point. It is the wall to wall coverage across all sections of the media and the anguished hand-wringing that goes with it that is exactly what the terrorists are after. In the cold light of day thirty odd deaths are no big deal, however callous that may sound on the face of it. The regular news bulletins could deal with the whole thing quite adequately and in a matter of fact way without all the stupid repetition and sensationalism. But of course the media are interested mainly in pulling viewers and readers, so they turn a blind eye to the fact that they are part of the problem. Reply to this message | Report message       8

New Tue 22 Mar 16 17:20   Brussels explosions - WillDeBeest

Not sure who stuck a scowly on that, which is a perfectly reasonable argument about news values. 15 tourists die in a bus crash somewhere in Europe and it's a leading item on the news; a similar (yes, larger in this case, but not by an order of magnitude) suffer an untimely death by terrorism and it's everywhere. Yes, that is the 'terror' that the terrorists want to create. We probably have no choice but to report it in full, as news censorship would be a worse affront to democracy. But the answer is not to stop travelling, not to stop visiting cities, and especially not to reinforce the myth of the oppressive infidel by finding yet more brown people to bomb. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Tue 22 Mar 16 17:43   Brussels explosions - RattleandSmoke

I am travelling through France in June. My journey starts in involves me spending time at some of the busiest railway stations in Europe and there will be an element of risk, I knew this before I booked it, I think though extra security may cause delays. I am not going to let these brain washed idiots stop me from travelling, unless of course something really bad happens between now and June. I also like to think there can't be that many people brain washed enough to want to blow themselves up for this to keep happening. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 18:02   Brussels explosions - smokie

I agree with most of WdB's post except the very last bit. I don't see why bombing them makes us an oppressive infidel, if we are sure we've targetted the movers and shakers in the organisation. After all, they are completely reckless and uncaring about who they bomb, and could well include sympathisers as well as women and children. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 22 Mar 16 18:34   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> I agree with most of WdB's post except the very last bit. I don't see >> why bombing them makes us an oppressive infidel, if we are sure we've targetted the >> movers and shakers in the organisation. After all, they are completely reckless and uncaring about >> who they bomb, and could well include sympathisers as well as women and children. You think there is no collateral damage? Makes us every bit as bad as they are, and legitimises their cause. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 18:41   Brussels explosions - sooty123

You think there is no collateral damage? Makes us every bit as bad as they >> are, and legitimises their cause. >> By 'us' do you mean the uk? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 18:46   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> You think there is no collateral damage? Makes us every bit as bad as >> they >> >> are, and legitimises their cause. >> >> >> >> By 'us' do you mean the uk? Anyone who is not "them" Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 18:53   Brussels explosions - sooty123

In their eyes, not yours. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:00   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> In their eyes, not yours. And mine, Thats why I said it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:07   Brussels explosions - sooty123

>> And mine, Thats why I said it. >> 'Makes us every bit as bad as they are,' Just so I don't misunderstand that, you think collateral damage by 'us' is as bad as the events of today? Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:10   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> Just so I don't misunderstand that, you think collateral damage by 'us' is as >> bad as the events of today? yes, and it causes the "events of today" Or do you think that killing their children and women is OK? Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 22 Mar 16 at 21:24 Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:15   Brussels explosions - sooty123

>> yes, I find it hard to believe that you actually believe that. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:17   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> >> yes, >> >> I find it hard to believe that you actually believe that. So you do think killing their innocent women and children is ok. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:24   Brussels explosions - sooty123

No I didn't say that. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:18   Brussels explosions - Bromptonaut

>> I find it hard to believe that you actually believe that. That's how it plays in 'their' world. Understandably. Until we deal with that and think of ourselves in 'their' shoes we're just making things worse. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 22 Mar 16 at 19:19 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 20:07   Brussels explosions - sooty123

>> Until we deal with that and think of ourselves in 'their' shoes we're just making >> things worse. >> If you could wave a magic wand, what would you like to see us do or not do? Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 22 Mar 16 at 21:24 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 18:59   Brussels explosions - Bromptonaut

>> I agree with most of WdB's post except the very last bit. I don't see >> why bombing them makes us an oppressive infidel,if we are sure we've targetted the >> movers and shakers in the organisation. Maybe a bit vague on us/they/them ? If innocent, notionally Syrian but definitely Muslim, wedding guests are victims of the case where 'sure we've targetted the movers' turns out to be a cock up then some other innocent having died in Brussels is not going to cut any mustard. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:45   Brussels explosions - No FM2R

>>I don't see why bombing them makes us an oppressive infidel To be fair he said "reinforces the myth". Gives them "distortable evidence" if you prefer. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 22 Mar 16 20:08   Brussels explosions - smokie

Can't I misquote once in a while, if it serves my purpose? :-) The events of today are not retribution for anything that's happened recently. When have they ever said it is? The events are battles in their ongoing war against the West. ISIS have a deep hatred of the West and all it stands for. It's based on their faith and religious learnings. Whatever we may think of those, their beliefs are strong enough that they are prepared to die for their beliefs. In an odd sort of way I happen to respect them for that even though I find it hard to understand. I don't think anyone suggested deliberately murdering women and children but a little collateral damage will make no difference either way to them anyway. Maybe one or two more people might get tipped over into radicalisation as a result but I can't imagine it's likely in itself to cause wholesale conversion to ISIS. They must be laughing up their sleeves at the hand-wringing which goes on before we will do anything to stop them, all the time allowing their SWAT teams to carry out further atrocities. They do not care that we care. Why on earth is that not obvious? I don't have the answer but I'm pretty sure it's not do nothing. It's time to be decisive and take some serious action, not sit back and fiddle while Rome burns. Reply to this message | Report message       4

New Tue 22 Mar 16 20:46   Brussels explosions - Zero

>> I don't have the answer but I'm pretty sure it's not do nothing. It's time >> to be decisive and take some serious action, not sit back and fiddle while Rome >> burns. Doing something has made it worse. Trouble is we have a very limited idea of "something" Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 23 Mar 16 00:33   Brussels explosions - No FM2R

>> I'm pretty sure it's not do nothing Me too. Then Sooty asked... >>If you could wave a magic wand, what would you like to see us do or not do? And that is hard. Really hard. But I'll start.. I would like our electorate to get a life. Understand the issues, stop being all Jeremy Kyle about it, realise how difficult it is, and stop thinking that firing a gun and indiscriminate will help. I would like our media to rise about its drive for circulation figures and take some responsibility for the message it delivers. Oh i know its not actually a provable lie, but it is manipulative distortion and spinning. I would like our politicians, of ALL flavours, to rise above their love of self and position and to accept the responsibility that they hold. To actually strive to take the right decision, rather than the most popular or the most likely to get them re-elected. I would like us, as a nation, to practice tough love. e.g. you can run to us for protection when you have tried and failed to fix your own country. You need to take some ownership for ISIS and similar, not just throw your hands up and run away. But I would like us to help without thought when someone is genuinely running for safety. I would like us as a people, media and political force to realise that even good decisions have difficult implications. And loads more attitude and behaviour stuff. As for practical behaviour; draw a line in the sand. Enforce totally our law one side of that line, and welcome anybody who adopts it, and try to avoid going the other side of the land to attack something simply because we believe by our standards that it is wrong. You did say it was a *MAGIC* wand, right? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 10:09   Brussels explosions - Dutchie

All good stuff to read but we haven't got the politicians with a vision or leadership qualities. We have populist newspapers who thrive on scaring people and writing stories about immigration which makes no sense. The Genie is out the bottle and nobody knows how to put it back.Make no mistake what has happened in Brussel and Paris will happene here again. Our western intervention in Middle East policies have been a disaster from the start as soon we got involved. Oil and the Dollar had a lot to do with it.We all buy cheap clothing produced by people in other parts of the world with poverty wages and standard of living. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 17:43   Brussels explosions - Armel Coussine

>> It is the wall to wall coverage across all sections of the media and the anguished hand-wringing that goes with it that is exactly what the terrorists are after. In a way. But there must be a negative side to being regarded with hatred and contempt by all rational people. Terrorists may think they are doing the right thing, but they must know how damn nasty they are too. >> In the cold light of day thirty odd deaths are no big deal, You think so? Seems a pretty good score for one outrage. Think how many friends and relations those thirty odd dead leave behind, sad and longing for justice, or at least revenge. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 18:22   Brussels explosions - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> >> You think so? Seems a pretty good score for one outrage. Think how many friends >> and relations those thirty odd dead leave behind, sad and longing for justice, or at >> least revenge. >> Nearly every death brings anguish to families somewhere, but in the context of the number who die every day of every year from all sorts of causes thirty more is statistically nothing, though of course it matters greatly to those immediately effected. But overplaying the event with massive sensationalism and non stop coverage makes the likelihood of it happening again a certainty. Terrorists thrive on publicity and the exaggerated spread of fear, that is their goal. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 18:31   Brussels explosions - Armel Coussine

>> in the context of the number who die every day of every year from all sorts of causes thirty more is statistically nothing, though of course it matters greatly to those immediately effected. Of course, just a grain of sand in the daily human death toll. My point really is that when thirty are killed, and many injured, all at once in a West European capital, that would count as a success to the smelly little terrorists and is going to hit the media big time. Seems foolish to deny that or play it down. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 19:55   Brussels explosions - Roger.

To avoid confusion - I agree with Delingpole. I fully expect the usual suspects to verbally castigate me, but I don't care ! www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/22/belgian-bombings-we-need-to-face-up-to-the-war-being-waged-against-the-west/ Reply to this message | Report message       4

New Tue 22 Mar 16 20:04   Brussels explosions - sooty123

We haven't had bretborts shouting and carrying on in a while rog. I wonder if he gets a headache when writing that stuff? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 20:05   Brussels explosions - Armel Coussine

>> www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/22/belgian-bombings-we-need-to-face-up-to-the-war-being-waged-against-the-west/ Oooh yah, Frightf***t... Roger Rog as we minicabbers used to say back in the 19th century. OO you callin a usual suspect, eh? Eh? Wotchit. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 22 Mar 16 22:13   Brussels explosions - Dutchie

Tim Marshall is the Middle East expert journalist who has the most sensible comments. Whilst their ideology is alive the killing spree will go on. And we are not safe whatever the politicians want us to believe.But live goes on and people travel go to shopping centers and use the metro systems. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 14:41   Brussels explosions - Roger.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/a-terrorist-attack-has-happened-in-europe-let-the-standard-response-begin/ Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 17:57   Brussels explosions - Armel Coussine

Our Belgian friends are unharmed (unless citing Mad Magazine and its editor Alfred Neumann are things a Belgian would only do from beyond the grave). How many here remember Mad Magazine I wonder? :o} Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 18:27   Brussels explosions - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> >> How many here remember Mad Magazine I wonder? >> >> :o} >> Me sir, used to buy it now and again too. I suppose it was the US forerunner of Viz. Is it still published? Not seen one for years. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 18:41   Brussels explosions - Crankcase

I remember it too, just about. I think there was a white hatted spy and a black hatted spy, I seem to recall, and I do remember one comic strip about a hitchhiker thumbing a lift. His sign said "California or bust", many cars went by without stopping, and of course in the last frame he exploded. So it made some impression on me at the age of about eight I guess. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 19:29   Brussels explosions - Robin O'Reliant

>> I remember it too, just about. I think there was a white hatted spy and >> a black hatted spy, I seem to recall, >> Spy versus Spy it was called. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 19:53   Brussels explosions - rtj70

>> Spy versus Spy it was called. Which was made as a video game of the same name in the 80s. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_vs._Spy_(1984_video_game) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 18:46   Brussels explosions - Armel Coussine

>> Is it still published? Not seen one for years. I haven't either. It was a forerunner of so-called underground comics, the Freak Brothers and Robert Crumb's works of genius. There was a short-lived Shock-Horror response to so-called horror comics in the fifties, essentially in this country. They were pretty naff. You have to hand it to the Gringos, putting money into children's culture like that. Children's culture for adults really. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 23 Mar 16 18:49   Brussels explosions - Crankcase

That Robert Crumb I always found deeply unsettling, but then I guess that was his aim, so he achieved it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 24 Mar 16 13:32   Brussels explosions - Ambo

>> That Robert Crumb I always found deeply unsettling, but then I guess that was his >> aim, so he achieved it. >> I guess a good few people will be unsettled at first sight by the heading of the current Canard Enchainé. The strapline is a "Message to our Brussels friends", then "Gardez la frite!" A snide reference to Belgium's national gastronomic treasure? No doubt intended but not quite: the expression means "Keep your peckers up!" Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 24 Mar 16 15:12   Brussels explosions - Armel Coussine

There's a very good Freak Brothers strip in which Fat Freddie starts by fleeing from a couple of dead hard, hippie-hating rednecks, carrying in his bosom a large supply of amyl nitrate ampoules, or 'poppers' as those who enjoy a moment of blank elation followed by a headache call them. Freddie in his alarm falls on his face crushing the poppers and getting their effects all at once. He rises from the ground going 'ROAR!'. In the last frame the two rednecks are lying on the ground tied in horrible knots, one remarking to the other: 'Lord God, Billy Bob, that was the meanest hippie I ever did see...' I understand amyl nitrate can be a lifesaver for those with heart conditions. All I can say is that as a recreational drug it didn't suit me at all. I understand too that it is popular among male gays. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 24 Mar 16 22:43   Brussels explosions - Dutchie

Watching the news tonight the lady reporter mentioned the Flemish background to be German. Flemish is Dutch not that it is important but not German.There has never been love lost between the Vlamingen and Wallonen. Most of the money is made in Vlamingen with Antwerpen being a large port.Belgie was part of Holland and should have stayed that way. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 24 Mar 16 23:49   Brussels explosions - R.P.

Which News Channel ? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Mar 16 23:59   Brussels explosions - Dutchie

Sky if I remember I haven't seen the news lady before. Reply to this message | Report message