| Motoring Discussion > Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions | Buying / Selling |
| Thread Author: PeterS | Replies: 80 |
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Mon 22 Feb 16 20:52
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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So, it appears that there's been a bit of mission creep in the plan to upgrade my partners VW Up!, following his recent switch to haemo dialysis and general feeling a a bit better and getting out and about more. We had an A3 in 2007, kept for 4ish years, which he liked, was cheap to run and own and generally a nice car. So, why not get another one :) As usual with these things (at least in my experience...) there was a degree of scope creep. The original plan was just to buy a 1.4T petrol A3, probably in sport trim, and ideally with xenon headlights and some form of navigation. No problem, there's a 150bhp 1.4T Sport Nav. That lists at £22,350. But then add metallic paint, xenon lights, heated seats, comfort pack and a few other bits and pieces and you're looking at somewhat north of £26k before discount. So assume no less than £22k after discount.... Mmmm... Let's look at slightly used ones then... But if you look at the Audi web site at used ones, there are very few well specced, or even moderately specced, 150 PS A3s. They're mostly diesel...and it won't do enough miles for that to be sensible. But, there are a few A3 e-trons that are pretty competitively priced, for the spec, compared equivalent petrol only ones. So I've bought one... We effectively paid £23,500 for the e-tron. It's got the full blown MMI +, LED headlights, comfort access, leather/Alcantara heated seats with lumbar, panoramic roof. List price, to this spec, is just over £40k. Knock off £5k from the taxpayer and you're at £356. It's lost a third in 6,000 miles. So in summary I'm looking at it as a very well equipped petrol A3, with the bonus of a free electric motor and battery... It looks great in misano red I think, and it certainly makes a change to see a brightly coloured car on the drive.... My first car was red... A Fiat Uno :) The black leather/alcantara sports seats are very comfortable, and have plenty of adjustment. They're heated as well, which is good!! The steering wheel is not the usual chunky S-Line one, and I think is all the better for it. It's the standard sports steering wheel and has a nice feel to it - not too chunky, if that makes sense? And the panoramic roof lets in plenty of light... To be honest, it's not that panoramic in my opinion - it doesn't extend that much behind the front seats... It is quite wide though; maybe calling it a widescreen sunroof would be more appropriate... Size wise the A3 seems to have grown; the last one we had was a 57 plate. This one seems much bigger inside, and you seem to sit lower as well. I'm not sure it's much smaller than the first (B5?) A4 avant I had... But I guess what most people want to know is how is drives... Firstly, starting it is slightly odd. The car comes as standard with comfort access and keyless go. So you just get in a press the start button. But nothing happens....the dash lights up, and the MMI monitor slides up as well. But other than that, nothing... Completely silent... Stick it in drive and it really does pick up incredibly quickly. It defaults to starting in EV mode, and the 100PS motor has all 300Nm of torque available from a standing start. It'll accelerate pretty swiftly up to around 70 in EV mode - push it more than that and the engine will cut in. But in EV mode it really is quite odd; you're going quite quickly, but there no engine noise, no vibration, no tactile indication of speed at all really. There's a hint of electric motor notice, but the real sound is that of tyre and road noise. When the engine does cut in that almost imperceptible as well - it has 150Ps, but the combined power claim is 201PS I think. When it does cut in its still not as load as the general road noise. It really is very refined for such a small car. Perhaps the standard fit acoustic windscreen helps... :p But it's entirely possible to drive pretty quickly, certainly faster than I would on a normal commute, and never use the engine. I say never; the issue is one of range. Audi claim up to 31 miles on battery alone. The highest range I've seen after unplugging it in the morning is 27 miles. But they are not normal miles. Driven with no eye to preserving battery power - brisk acceleration on slip roads and roundabouts, 75 on the dual carriageway - my 10 mile journey to work will use at least 15 of those miles... But, I can plug it in at work so not really an issue for me... And when Andy starts using it that *should* be just about okay... Slowing down is odd as well. The electric motor sits between the DSG (I think) box and the drive train. It uses the gears, which surprised me. But it seems to have some sort of freewheel capability - take your foot of the accelerator and there's no engin braking at all. Or, drop down a gear using the flappy paddles and the regenerative braking is really quite aggressive. It's easy to misjudge the approach to a roundabout and end up having to ease on the accelerator again... On the plus side, regenerative braking means very little brake dust on the 18" multi spoke alloys. Which is A good think I think! Although it's a good 200kgs heavier that a standard petrol A3 I'm not sure I can tell that. Though I think the new A3 is pretty light for the size of car? Certainly as the additional weight is pretty much all battery, and is at the rear under the boot floor, it can only help weight distribution in a FWD car. And possible centre of gravity too? What is interesting is the economy. Audi claim a combined 130odd mpg per the EU cycle I think. I can get to work and back purely on battery power (with a top up charge). I've done 280 miles and used half a tank (40 litres) of petrol. 100 of those miles were done on a run to Gatwick and back which was almost entirely on the petrol. The OBC is showing 114 mpg for the 280 miles, and my commute defaults to 300mpg - that seems to be the highest that the OBC will show! But my commute is pretty much the sweet spot for it I think - 10 ~ 20 miles each way with the ability to charge at work is pretty much the limit for this PHEV in the real world. I'm happy - it costs around 80p to charge from empty, and I charge at work when it's around half empty. So it's costing me around £2 a week, and the company the same, for me to do around 110 miles. It's pretty swift - bar the S3 it's the quickest A3 - and is perfect for the job. I'd forgotten just how nice the interior of an Audi (albeit a pretty high spec one) is. It's feels nicer, and more solid, than the Merc. The Merc feels more solid, though nowhere near as nicely designed, as the 520d that preceded it. I await with interest the 330e - estimated delivery June - to compare. I hope it's EV mileage claim is nearer reality than the Audi though - no cheat software ;) The other key advantage to the e-tron is the ability to set the interior temperature remotely, when the car is plugged in and charging. It the heats up (or cools down) using the power from being plugged in and not depleting the battery. So set the car to be 22 degrees at 07:45 and no more de-frosting. It'll even turn on the heated seats, if they were on when you last used it :) You can do this by setting the timer, or using the A3 e-tron app. So in summary, very pleased with it, but you do need to be able to charge it at work, and if you do more than around 30/35 miles a day then it really won't stack up... Unless you were going o spec an A3 to such a ludicrous levels anyway... s1296.photobucket.com/user/C4P_PeterS/library/Audi%20A3%20e-tron?sort=3&page=1 |
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Mon 22 Feb 16 21:19
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Avant
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Really interesting, Peter: first of all I do hope your partner's health continues to improve. It's maybe a bit smaller than we need but it's worth a look, as our main car does a lot of 8-10 mile return trips plus regular longer runs up the A303. It's a pity that the electrical gubbins shrinks the boot by about a quarter. My first impression was - don't e-trons lose a lot of value - but then I looked up the basic list price, just over £30,000 after Government grant, and remembered that most optional extras add a lot to the purchase price and very little to resale value. Even so, I think you got s good deal and thank you for such a full and interesting report. |
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Mon 22 Feb 16 21:30
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - legacylad
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| Seconded |
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Mon 22 Feb 16 21:37
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Runfer D'Hills
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| Indeed, very good report, I almost ended up wanting one. But they're too wee for me I'm afraid. |
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Mon 22 Feb 16 21:53
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Lygonos
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>> I almost ended up wanting one. But they're too wee for me I'm afraid Similar set-up in the Passat: www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/passat/90519/vw-passat-gte-review |
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Mon 22 Feb 16 21:58
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Runfer D'Hills
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Aye, fair enough, but while it would be possible to imagine needing a Passat, it would be very much harder to imagine wanting one. ( the archetypal accountants car! ) ;-) |
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Mon 22 Feb 16 21:38
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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Thanks Avant... Yes, things seem to be on the up which is good! I have to say the loss of value was what struck me, but then on reflection pretty much all new cars lose at least a third in year 1 don't they...so better to benefit from depreciation than suffer... I do think that the technology in this will date pretty quickly though... The range isn't really good enough for anyone who does more than around 20 miles a day I don't think. It is a bit of a hassle plugging it in at work; plugging it in in the evening is acceptable I think, and will become easier on Friday when we have the charging point installed at home. It takes about 4 hours to charge from a 13A socket, which is what we're using at the moment, but that means getting the charger out of the boot, plugging it in to the house and the car. And then unplugging it all in the morning. We're having a tethered charger installed, which means that the charger has the lead and plug which can be plugged straight into the car. It'll charge quicker, which doesn't make much difference at night, but it will be much less hassle. Space wise, Google show that it is only 6 inches shorter than the original A4 Avant, but with a longer wheelbase. So the boot is where the space is missed. And compared to the normal A3 it is shallower - that's where the 100 litres disappears. But it's ample for day to day use, and the load bay length with the seats down looks adequate. |
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Sun 4 Sep 16 14:11
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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Quick update on this one ; we've had it 6 months now, and it's done 7,000 miles in that time. More than expected if I'm honest! It's only done 3 'long' journeys - Derby, Hull, Suffolk, and a couple of trips to Heathrow. These total maybe 2,000 miles. The remainder has been local journeys, up to around 25 miles each way. So the average fuel consumption, per the trip computer (pretty accurate when I have checked it) of 112mpg is pretty good I think. It generally does around 900 miles on a tank of petrol, and is charged every day at home. More surprising is that even on the 570 mile return trip to Hull the cars system said that 34% of the journey was carried out 'emissions free'. Given that on these journeys it operates basically as a standard petrol hybrid - the battery itself can only power the car for around 25 miles on a charge - that's quite a lot of recovered power and 'sailing'! Even better is that it's actually a really nice car to drive as well. Easy to get a comfortable driving position - very supportive 'sports' seats. They're leather/Alcantara which seems to be hard wearing so far, and certainly very supportive. Heated too, which, when combined with the pre-heat system controllable either by timer or from an iPhone app meant for a pleasant start to the day in the winter :) It's well equipped, partly as a result of its ex-demo / launch car spec and partly as they've thrown a lot of standard kit at it to help justify the rather high (when new) list price. Ours has a panoramic roof, MMI satnav, Audi connect, LED headlights, 18" wheels, dual zone climate etc I was worried the weight of the batteries would be an issue - I think they add 150odd Kgs to the weight of the car. Actually it rides and handles very well - far better than the previous generation A3, and it feels like a much more sorted car. If anything I think it's better balanced than the last one; it certainly is far less inclined to understeer - you really have to push very hard indeed to get to that stage. I imagine that the extra weight of the batteries (under the boot floor) actually help the balance. It also feels much bigger inside than the last A3. Albeit ours was a 3 door, which I think is a shorter wheelbase even in the current one? It's also very refined; it's default on starting is EV mode - all electric on short journeys that's all you'll ever use. It'll cover 'up to' 31 miles in that mode. I've once seen it claims range of 32 miles, but the norm is 27. On the other hand it'll also do 82mph in EV mode. Which might have something to do with the range I get... ;) The switch to hybrid mode is undetectable in normal use, and the engine itself, a 1.4 turbocharged unit, is also very quiet. Probably worth noting the car is fitted with acoustic glass as well. On longer journeys and motorways you can see the car switching between EV and standard engine mode on the dash, but it's pretty hard to detect otherwise until your going over 70. At that point you can just about hear some engine noise, if you're revving it. On which note, the electric motor is 100PS I think, and it'll use it surprisingly often when in hybrid mode in the motorway. It's pretty swift off the line...very quick initially in fact. And it'll more than keep up with the ebb and flow of traffic, and slip roads, on the A27 in pure battery mode. If you want to go over 82 then the engine kicks in anyway. If you floor it you get the electric motor plus the 150PS engine. But this all just happens - no need to modify your driving style. Theres a price to pay for investing in this technology relatively early in its life. I think ours has probably continued to depreciate pretty rapidly, despite the initial savings. I'm not too bothered by that - it's cheap to run, nice to drive and comfortable so we'll have it a while longer. It's also had a few niggles. The satnav through a wobbly and thought it was Ingolstadt - a new aerial sorted that. The gear changes started to get a bit jerky, only noticeable on the longer journeys, and the solution to that is a replacement mechatronics unit. Booked in for that. Which leads to possibly the most irritating thing about the car; not all Audi dealers are e-tron dealers. Our nearest is either Brighton or Southampton. Which doesn't sound too bad, but there are 3 closer one - Worthing, Portsmouth, and Five Oaks in Horsham. They really all ought to be able to work on the whole range I think? Quick summary? Very pleased with the car - a great choice for the kind of use it gets. If your average journey was much longer than ours you'd struggle to match the economy I think, unless you charged during the day. But as a car I'm very impressed with the A3, and for our use the e-tron is a great solution. Economical on short journeys, but very capable on longer ones too. |
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Sun 4 Sep 16 15:02
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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Many thanks for the update. I'm starting to wonder about a plug in hybrid next year if the figures work out. But I could do with something a little bigger so maybe a Passat GTE Estate. High list price but the BIK is low and a lot of my journeys are short so could be electric with no need for the petrol engine to kick in. Some the the things you mention about the Audi A3 e-tron ring true of my A3 saloon with the same engine with the dry clutch 7 speed DSG box. You certainly notice it's not as nose heavy as a diesel engined car. I am still pleased with the 1.4 150PS petrol engine in mine. So if I don't go for the GTE I might still go for something with this engine rather than a diesel. |
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Sun 4 Sep 16 22:08
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| Also worth adding that, since we have a dedicated charger point fitted, there's a seperate 'meter' that measures power used to charge the car. In that 6 months we've used just over 1,000 kWh of electricity - in round numbers that's £100, or £4 a week. Negligible in the great scheme of things, and only three tanks (it's a 37 litre tank...) of petrol. Adding 90 litres to the petrol consumed gives an 'equivalent' fuel consumption from a cost perspective of 86 mpg :) |
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Sun 4 Sep 16 22:15
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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The figures for electric are most helpful. Your figures suggest the car will do maybe 14,000 per annum. My 1.4TFSI A3 will have done around 18,000 in 2 years. Hence a diesel not making sense - BIK is a lot lower and it does close to what I'd get from the 2.0 diesel equivalent. I'm not sure if the Passat GTE will be within my pay-up allowance. We'll see. A neighbour is currently trying out a Volvo XC90 T8 hybrid.. so a £60k+ car. His next company car? |
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Tue 13 Sep 16 20:29
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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Another update, partly on the car but mainly on Brighton Audi. The car was booked in on Monday a coupl of weeks for the occasionally jerky gear change to be investigated. The courtesy car was a new shape A4 TDI 190 S-Line auto, which seemed to b the the service managers car. tinyurl.com/gschxr7 tinyurl.com/j269ne2 The car was only booked in for a day, but in a 'phone call early afternoon they'd diagnosed a faulty mechatronics unit and suggests that we didn't drive the car but just kept the courtesy car until the work had been done. It was actually completed the following Monday, to so 6 working days after we'd dropped it off. Communication throughout was excellent, and we kept the courtesy car so it really wasn't an issue Despite that they were very apologetic about the delay, and a surprise on collection was an Audi / Samsonite laptop bag (from the 'Audi Collection' no less!!) along with an accessories box containing a usb stick in the shape of an Audi key, an SD card and some Audi logo'ed valve caps on the passenger seat ;) tinyurl.com/j6ccw6k None of which was necessary but all (except the valve caps :P) is appreciated. Though I'm not sure I'd ever pay the £165 they charge for the bag :o Add to that the bottle of champagne from Worthing Audi as an apology for not being an e-tron dealer and so unable to work on the car, and I'm feeling pretty impressed by the dealer service. Both in the same group, it's worth noting - Caffyns |
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Tue 13 Sep 16 20:55
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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I had my A3 serviced yesterday. Decided to avoid the rush and go for an 11am slot. Car park was full and no spaces even to double park... I went around again. Finally dumped my car and got inside and waited to be seen. Picked up a 2000 mile 16 plate Audi A6 2.0 TDI 190 S-Line manual. Didn't like the car. I prefer the A3! List price for mine without options is about £10k difference but with similar spec the difference is closer to £5k in reality. Only did about 30 miles in the A6. If it was an A4 or a TT I'd have done more ;-) Okay service - but not brilliant. I didn't get your freebies! Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 13 Sep 16 at 20:55
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Tue 13 Sep 16 21:01
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| I have to say the A4 felt like a car from the class up, size wise. The engine was nothing special, though more than powerful enough, but the power deliver after the almost instant manner in which the e-tron responds was horribly slow aand noisy... In the week we had it it covered around 600 miles - it too went to Suffolk. On the motorway it was a very relaxed cruiser, and the actual ride / handling in other roads was pretty impressive to. But it did feel quite big! Liked the virtual cockpit though, with nav screen in of the dials. Disappointedly though the graphics were just usual sat nav graphics and not the Google Earth maps that the A3 MMI+ uses... |
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Tue 13 Sep 16 22:27
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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>> I have to say the A4 felt like a car from the class up, size wise The A6 saloon compared to the A3 saloon was definitely two classes up size wise. It was bigger than I want. Particular width at times. But I know I probably need something bigger than the A3 next time - otherwise I'd seriously consider another A3 saloon. As diesels go, the 190PS unit was good... But I now think I want petrol if you can get a smallish petrol turbo with a DSG. Looking at the SEAT Ateca, DSG is only available on the 190PS diesel 4x4 top of the range model. Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 13 Sep 16 at 22:28
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Tue 13 Sep 16 21:01
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - mikeyb
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>> Despite that they were very apologetic about the delay, and a surprise on collection was >> an Audi / Samsonite laptop bag (from the 'Audi Collection' no less!!) along with an >> accessories box containing a usb stick in the shape of an Audi key, an SD >> card and some Audi logo'ed valve caps on the passenger seat ;) > Nice to hear a positive dealer experience. My experience with Bristol Audi was not great (owned by Damon Hill and the staff felt the need to keep telling you), but that was 10 years ago and they've now relocated and are part of a different dealer group. I always used Tetbury as they were very friendly / helpful, although I found Bath to be OK to. I wonder if the recent "issues" are leading to the group having to be more customer focused to rebuild their reputation |
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Tue 13 Sep 16 21:08
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| We've been using Worthing Audi for the best part of 10 years, and they've always been excellent no matter whether they were serving an almost brand new A4 convertible back in 2007, or a 20 plus year old Audi convertible in 2014! Same collection / delivery, good communication and valet inside and out. The e-tron was originally booked in to them for the navigation wobble to be looked at; I didn't think to mention it was an e-tron and the service booking person didn't notice either. I'm assuming they don't sell many and no one had ever taken one to them, but they didn't weren't trained on e-trons and couldn't touch it. Something to do with the high voltage electrical system I imagine. But they cleaned it and gave me a bottle of champagne and re-booked it into Brighton for me so I can't complain. Everyone makes mistakes once in a while! |
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Tue 13 Sep 16 21:20
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - mikeyb
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>> Everyone makes mistakes once in >> a while! >> I dont have a problem with mistakes - they happen, but its how they are dealt with that wins / looses customers |
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Sun 5 Feb 17 20:07
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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A somewhat shorter 12 month review. The car has now done 21,000 miles. It had 6,500 on delivery, so just under 15k miles in 12 months. That includes around 1,200 miles on a trip to France, 600 to Hull, 400 to Cambridge and 500 to Derby, in round numbers. The rest has been sub 100 mile trips, with the majority of them being sub 50 miles. The trip computer is now showing a long term average of 92mpg, which I think is impressive. On the longer journeys, which are covered in 'hybrid auto' mode but essential run as a 1.4 petrol it averages high 50s to the gallon. A 10 mile schlep from Smithfield market to the A23 at Croydon entirely on petrol as we'd exhausted the battery and the chargers in the car park at Smithfield market, while free, weren't working averaged 37 mpg. So I think those are the extremes from a petrol consumption perspective. Performance wise it's proved more than adequate. It'll reach 60 in well under 8 seconds - 7.6 from memory, and the DSG box is happy to respond to that use. Top speed is, I think, almost 140 mph. It's not been that fast!! It's also very refined - engine noise is all but inaudible unless really thrashed - it has an acoustic windscreen (whatever that is...) which might help. But often I have to rely on the indicator in the dashboard to let me know if the engine or battery is providing power, even when cruising at motorway speed. Not surprisingly, given it's only just over 2 years old, it doesn't rattle and feels new. I use a lot of hire cars while travelling, and they are generally new or newish. The A3 still matches them. It's also a far nicer pace to sit than lots of much more expensive cars. Yes it's ridiculously highly specified, some of which was optional, but the leather/alcantara seats have worn well (actually not worn at all), are comfortable and easily adjusted. Tech wise it's easy enough to use, the connected service is are useful and easily operated. Remote control of charging and ventilation is invaluable, the ability to send destinations to the car helpful and on-line access to news, weather and the ability to google locations is easily used and the google earth satellite imagery on the mapping looks great. It hasn't been the most reliable car we've ever owned though; while it hasn't broken down it's been back to the dealer twice, once to have a recalcitrant satnav fixed (it was convinced it was in Germany) and once for a replacement mechatronics (?!?) unit to be fitted to address a jerky gear change. Audi assist have also attended once to look at (and fix) and emissions warning light that had come on. But, Audi dealers (Brighton and Worthing) service has been absolutely first class and so while irritating the visits have never caused a problem. I'm sure it's continued to depreciate quite quickly, though for me that's almost irrelevant because the cars has been so good I genuinely can't think what we'd have had instead that would have been as satisfying. The tech will date rapidly though; it's sub 30 mile range in EV only mode is ideal for our use, but I'm sure will soon be laughable. Also, I happen to think in bright pearlescent red with black leather/alcantara seats, a panoramic roof, diamond cut 18" alloys and chrome highlights it looks great :) |
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Sun 5 Feb 17 22:26
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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| So how much does it cost to run in terms of petrol plus electric? You say it's done £15k with you... how much did that cost? |
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Sun 5 Feb 17 22:50
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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>> So how much does it cost to run in terms of petrol plus electric? You >> say it's done £15k with you... how much did that cost? >> Very roughly, assuming the OBC is vaguely accurate, 15k miles @ 92 mpg is 750 litres of petrol. Say £900 in round numbers. On top of that the meter on the charger at home shows just over 2,180 KWh of electricity used. So probably £250ish for electricity. 15,000 miles for £1,150 is just under 8p per mile. Other costs include 2 new tyres at, from memory, £180. Plus a service at £280. Road tax is free :) So in total another 3p per mile The killer, as always, is depreciation. Audi UKs website says it's worth £18,350 as a trade in. That's £5k less than I bought it for, or 33p per mile! |
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Sun 5 Feb 17 23:15
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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>> The killer, as always, is depreciation. Audi UKs website says it's worth £18,350 as a trade in. >> That's £5k less than I bought it for, or 33p per mile! Yes that is the killer isn't it. And you didn't buy it new. I like my A3 saloon which has about £6k options. You have some on that car I don't have. Real world average mpg for me (lots of short local trips and then occasionally longer ones) is about 35mpg. Average cost per mile works out at 14 pence. If this was my car then depreciation would be the killer. But plugin hybrid might be worthwhile for BIK reasons. Thanks for sharing the costs.... So far I've only done 19k in this car and the front tyres don't yet need replacing. So your car seems heavier on front tyres. |
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Mon 6 Feb 17 06:19
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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>> >> Thanks for sharing the costs.... So far I've only done 19k in this car and >> the front tyres don't yet need replacing. So your car seems heavier on front tyres. >> I suspect that the high level of torque available from the electric motor and the resulting quick acceleration off the line mean that it's time as a demonstrator caused disproportional tyre wear!! I changed them at 4mm (12,000 miles) as it was already in the dealers having the nav sorted. The replacements (same brand - continental from memory) seem to be roughly a third worn. They're 18" run flats - no spare in this car. |
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Mon 6 Feb 17 12:53
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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>> They're 18" run flats - no spare in this car. At least mine has a space saver 18". But there's room under the boot floor unlike yours where the space is used by fuel tank or batteries (Maybe fuel tank moved for batteries to be under rear seat?). My A3 was about £9k cheaper than that e-tron of yours new. I bet mine is worth £15k now - the £6k of options will have made little difference to resale but I wanted them :-) For example, full leather, adaptive Xenon's, upgraded stereo, ambient lighting, folding door mirrors. |
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Mon 6 Feb 17 06:31
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| And on the he positive side, running a £40k when new car for a year (albeit a year old when we got it) for 15,000 miles has worked out at under 44p per mile. Say 46p including insurance. That's not *too* bad, and is almost certainly better than if we'd bought a brand new petrol one specc'ed to a reasonable level. I expect year 2 with us will cost 30p or under :) |
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Mon 5 Sep 16 12:45
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Pezzer
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| Great thread this thanks for the updates. i wonder how Crankcase is getting on with his Zoe ? |
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Mon 5 Sep 16 13:22
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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| What would you like to know, Pezzer? |
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Mon 5 Sep 16 23:21
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Pezzer
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This reminded me of your thread earlier this year and I am interested as to how things are working out .... probably should have dug out that thread. Its nice to hear about people's day to day experiences especially when they have chosen something a bit different. |
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Tue 6 Sep 16 08:30
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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Ah, a general update, I see. Will do. Well, swanned in this morning to work serenely, as always. I still enjoy the drive - there's a real punch of acceleration at town speeds if you choose to use it, and at those kind of speeds it's a peaceful place to be. On the motorway there's plenty of wind and tyre noise. Not very obtrusive, but enough to hide the fact there is no engine noise. Running costs remain absurdly low for me. Every time I put £70 in the Volvo to fill it up I can't help thinking that's 7000 miles in the Zoe - my electricity costs really are working out at about a penny a mile. However, since I bought it, there's been a change in that Ecotricity motorway rapid chargers are no longer free. That means that those drivers who were used to doing long distances regularly are now having to pay, and in some cases it's turning out it's now costing them more than a diesel. There's been a lot of noise about that, and undoubtedly it will affect perception and therefore probably sales of these vehicles. On the other hand, MOST drivers don't use those rapids daily, so the odd £6 here and there on the occasional longer journey isn't really too bad. It couldn't be free forever. And then of course there is an undetermined in size subset like me, who only use the car for local runs, so never use a rapid anyway. It hasn't therefore made any difference to that subset. Other non-rapid public chargers are everywhere, and there are more and more by the minute. They all come from different providers, and providers in this nascent market keep buying each other out and taking over legacy networks, so it all changes every three minutes. These chargers vary from free to a few pence to extortionate, so you still have to research, carry different swipe cards, have multiple apps on your phone and so on. You need to be a bit dedicated to the cause at first to make sense of it all, until you find what works for you. Obviously this can be seen a massive pain in hoop if you are used to finding any old petrol station anywhere and waiting three minutes to get 600 miles in the tank. That's a big issue - until you get used to the alternative way of life, at which point fossil fuel at the car really does seem horribly antiquated, pollutey, incredibly expensive and generally nasty. Lots of people will never get over that one though, no doubt. I've never really used any of those public chargers either though. What works for me is having the "backup" Volvo. Many EV owners have a second ICE car, and to be honest, that's probably the ideal way of doing it, as long as it fits with your available space and finances of course. We've used the Volvo this year for two UK holidays of a week each, and three longer day trips. I've fuelled it three times since January, and I currently have about 300 miles of fuel in it. We may well only use it once or twice more this year, and I may not have to refuel again this year. All the other miles are in the Zoe (5500 so far). Lots of people do the "day hire" thing for longer runs - be cheaper than keeping a second car of course but less convenient. Renault don't do this, but Nissan offer Leaf buyers a couple of weeks a year in a free loan ICE car from the dealer you got the Leaf from, so lots of people have a free Juke or something for their holiday. You have to insure and fuel it is all. Nice touch from Nissan. In terms of range, averaged out I've had about 105 miles a "tank" out of it. I rather suspect it would go another ten or fifteen miles if I tried. I don't really try, so that's at normal speed and acceleration, as long as you accept I don't go above about 65 on the motorway, unless overtaking. To be fair though, I don't go above 65 on the motorway in the Volvo either, so it was no big deal for me. Reliability - it's always started and got me there, and I've never yet got anywhere near running out of charge, largely through a tiny bit of forethought. The car itself is high, as the batteries are under the floor. We like that. It's heavy and a bit jiggly in ride over bumps, and we like that less. Internal fitting and materials fall squarely into the "perfectly adequate and we're happy" category. It's not a GT cruiser by any means - it really is a town commutey type vehicle. The only thing that has been utter pants is the satnav, not because of the unit itself - it's a TomTom - but because it features what Renault call "Live Services". That's the bit that does traffic alerts, weather reports and a host of other useless but interesting things. That has failed on me numerous times, and indeed it's having its third dealer attempt at a fix later this week. Renault Customer Services have been brilliant though, and have already sent me a cheque in compensation for all the problems, which will more than pay for next year's "Live Services" subscription (yes, they charge you after the first year, cheeky monkeys.) Assuming the dealer ever fixes it. The actual satnav works fine of course, and it's pretty good - fast, clear, huge screen. Just currently can't tell me about traffic is all. So, would we buy another? As long as our usage pattern remains as mostly local commutes and visits to mum and the garden centre and the shops and the tip and so on and on, with the odd day run and a backup vehicle, I certainly would. If I had a 75 mile commute or something and it needed charging on the motorway all the time, probably not. Cost of purchase - well, I got one the storming deal a year ago and they are drying up fast. However, looking right now at the dealer I got it from, a replacement today on a 2 year PCP on the same terms would be £199 deposit, then £199 a month. For interest, I paid £89 deposit(!) and now £169 a month, so they've gone up a bit. In comparison, a Nissan Leaf requires a multi thousand deposit, which was why we bought the Zoe in the first place. TCO for me therefore over two years likely to be under 5k, for a new car with , breakdown cover, warranty etc. I think that's pretty good. A service costs about £80 as pretty much all they do is change the cabin filter. Rip off! Finally, "they've" been talking about new cars due any minute all year, from various manufacturers, with bigger batteries and longer ranges. The Renault rumour mill is talking of a replacement Zoe with twice the range - if that materialises the car really might work without a second backup vehicle, and I'd be very interested in that. All eyes are on the Paris Motor Show, as word on the street is there will some EV stuff from lots of people. |
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Fri 9 Sep 16 13:33
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Pezzer
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many thanks for the update. It certainly seems to be working for you. Just one thought does heavy nose to tail traffic impact range ? (I am guessing not) |
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Fri 9 Sep 16 14:16
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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No, nothing is pulled when stationary other than a titchy bit for radio/aircon. Really slow traffic means you're only pulling a KW or two when oozing along, so in fact your predicted range tends to rise in traffic, or at least remain the same for miles. As a test, sitting waiting around for 30 minutes sometimes for my passenger to turn up of an evening recently, I've left the "engine" running in order to sit in the cool with the aircon on. Predicted mileage on these occasions drops by at worst, one mile. Somehow it feels wrong to be parked next to someone in a mahoosive black SUV or similar who is clearly doing the same thing. That happens a lot in the car park I use. The difference of course is he is rumbling away like Vesuvius and of course, the exhaust fumes are pretty unpleasant. At least my exhaust fumes come out of a nuclear power station out of sight, perhaps, so are steam. Oh, and a bit of harmless old 20 billion year lasting radiation, nothing really serious. |
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Fri 9 Sep 16 15:29
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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>> At least my exhaust fumes come out of a nuclear power station out of sight, perhaps, so are >> steam. Oh, and a bit of harmless old 20 billion year lasting radiation, nothing really serious. I hope there's aren't exhaust fumes from UK nuclear power plants! But we do have some coal and gas power stations too you know. And of course some wind turbines that are sometimes allowed to turn when it's not too windy. And Smokie is sending some power back to the grid from his solar panels too. |
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Fri 9 Sep 16 15:35
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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Ah, but I'm on a "Blue" tariff, which at face value means it's all nuclear. I rather suspect they are using a dictionary where the definition of "all" is "something to do with credits swapped between multinationals in a particularly obfuscatory manner" and the definition of "nuclear" is "includes all other sources, the cheaper the better. This warranty is not a warranty". That kind of thing. |
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Fri 9 Sep 16 17:29
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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You'd have to have a rather clever national grid to guarantee you nuclear produced electricity. France probably provides more of our nuclear produced electricity than our old aging nuclear power plants. |
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Fri 9 Sep 16 18:53
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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Well, you piqued my curiosity so I looked it up. This is what they say. www.edfenergy.com/for-home/low-carbon-electricity |
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Fri 9 Sep 16 20:00
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Lygonos
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UK nuclear typically throws out 8 GW of power. We don't, as a rule, import more than 2-2.5 GW from France (who are largely nuclear) www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/ Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 9 Sep 16 at 20:00
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Tue 13 Sep 16 22:14
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - legacylad
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Motorpoint currently have one for sale @£20k Just in case anyone is interested. |
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Mon 10 Apr 17 21:15
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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Well, 7 months further down the line and it's now done just under 24,000 miles. Time for another service - an 'oil' service this time at £199 all-in. Seems to need fairly frequent servicing... excellent service as usual from Brighton Audi, and a nice shiny clean car in return :) tinyurl.com/k86m6b6 A not uneventful 7 months, though none of the issues can really be blamed on the car. It's had a replacement windscreen - genuine Audi glass and fitted by Autoglass. I can't tell it's been changed. It's also had a slow puncture, and a replacement 18" Continental was £99, fitted by Kwik Fit mobile. I actually wanted both fronts replacing - I prefer to replace in pairs. But I'd left the keys with the office, and the helpful Kwik Fit man said that there was plenty of life left (5mm) on the other so didn't replace it :( Though the Audi health check now has all tyres at 5mm, bar the one replaced Friday (and which had done 30miles..) which is at 7mm ;) So the fronts, which from memory were replaced at 12k miles have done 12k miles, and would probably have had another 6k miles until they hit 3mm? The final issue apparently happened while the car was parked... £168 from chipsaway fixed this, again the repair is, to my eyes, undetectable. tinyurl.com/mfmrerg The interior and exterior still look like new (now), and the economy remains staggeringly high. Despite the average journey now being 40 miles, meaning at best a half is carried out on battery only, the overall average since we've had it is 102mpg, not too far off Audis claim and improved by not having done any really long journeys in the last few months. . 55/60 is realistic for long petrol only journeys, keeping pace with motorway traffic in the U.K. or France. Initial acceleration to 30 is remarkably brisk. I'm sure it's slower than the M235i, but not by much. To 60 it's still quick (7.6 seconds) but nowhere near the 5 of the BMW. It's a far more refined car, and really very relaxing to drive. The only fault really is that the (optional) diamond finish 18" alloys have a few marks. I'm not convinced they're all due to curbing - it looks like a milky finish under the lacquer in a few areas. Should have got Audi to look at it, but perhaps next time it goes in! Other than that, the technology has undoubtedly dated in that it's range is not really high enough, though it works fine for our use. The MMI + multimedia system beats the BMW hands down in ease of use, clarity of display and it's use of google earth mapping. Seating for destinations online using google in the car is also more successful than the equivalent in the BMW. The BMW does have a larger screen though, and it's deezer/Spotify music connectivity is much better. In summary, still delighted with it, and no desire to change! Not overly cheap to run - a £280 'inspection' service and a £199 'oil' service in our 18k mile ownership is more than any recent car we've had. But the flip side is great service :) The BMW has done 8k miles and says 11k miles more until a service is required... given the Audi had an 'oil' service before we'd bought it that's almost 3 services to one against the Audi! But, bar consumables such as tyres and a set of wiper blades (£20 for Bosch ones from eBay vs £39 from Audi) that's it. It's consumed no oil, and it's at the dealer so frequently I'm not sure I've even needed to buy screenwash ;) Last edited by: PeterS on Mon 10 Apr 17 at 21:20
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Mon 10 Apr 17 22:14
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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>> 55/60 is realistic for long petrol only journeys, keeping pace with motorway traffic in the U.K I don't get that in my A3 1.4TFSI S-Tronic. And it doesn't have to lug around the batteries and electric motor in yours. So it must be benefiting from those with regenerative braking etc. I'm sorting a demo out on a Passat GTE - I'll report back. |
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Mon 10 Apr 17 22:41
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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When on cruise control on motorways it spends a surprising (to me) amount of time running on the batteries - unless you're going >82mph. It'll also switch the engine off as soon as you come off the accelerator when not using cruise. It's quite normal on long motorway journeys for the car to to say that between 20 and 35% of the journey has been 'emissions free', i.e. engine off. My mother has a 1.4TFSI Sportback (manual) at gets 50 ish on long journeys, and is averaging low 40s overall. So ours is using half the petrol..and a chunk of electricity. I haven't worked it our recently, but on a cost basis taking into account petrol and electricity costs, and working back to equivalent litres of petrol (if that makes sense?) it works out at mid 70s to the gallon I think Last edited by: PeterS on Mon 10 Apr 17 at 22:42
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Mon 10 Apr 17 22:50
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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>> unless you're going >82mph But it won't run on battery alone above 81mph will it. Not in the spec ;-) Mine will disengage the engine when you lift off and the revs drop to idle. But it does not actually turn the engine off. So far the average cost per mile for my A3 is 14p. That's only petrol. No servicing, depreciation, insurance, etc. Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 10 Apr 17 at 22:52
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Tue 11 Apr 17 03:23
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| I thought it was 82 mph, but it might be 81mph - can't remember! |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 11:31
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Hard Cheese
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This is a very interesting thread, I have not seen any of it before having been away from here for a few years until a month or so ago. I think I am too much of a control freak for such a control system though the Audi sounds like it must be near the top of the genre, and perhaps reassuringly for an owner I am not aware of anything else that has come along in the last two years that offers much more. Nevertheless my concern would be obsolescence, it's still immature technology and is restricted by needing to recharge rather than replace depleted batteries, all it needs is a step in battery technology that halves the weight and doubles the power (which is only like Moore's law in computing) and today's electric and hybrid cars could be obsolete over night. Perhaps if the manufacturers can get together and agree on an industry standard battery module, multiples of which can be fitted to all sorts of electric and hybrid cars, one in a city car, perhaps six in a limo, enabling them to be refuelled in minutes by swopping depleted batteries for charged ones in no more time than it takes to fill up with 60 ltrs of unleaded or diesel then hybrid/electric cars might be a viable alternative to diesel and petrol. This would also future proof electric cars by enabling existing ones to take advantage of new battery technologies. In this regard, in financial terms separating the commercials of the battery from the car via battery leasing also helps to make the cars more future proof. |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 12:55
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| Whilst I completely agree it's technology that will, and indeed is, dating pretty rapidly, the range of the car suits our use of it fairly well. And the fact that it also has petrol engine means it can be used like a normal ICE car with no range anxiety at all. Even when not plugged in its more economical than the petrol equivalent, thanks to the 'normal' energy recovery hybrid systems. And the Toyota Prius has been doing that for 20 years now, so that s pretty proven technology I think? But for us it's just an extremely well equipped A3 that also happens to be very economical :) |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 13:39
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Hard Cheese
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>> But for us it's just an extremely well equipped A3 that also happens to >> be very economical :) >> I am with you on that! There is a review of the latest Golf GTE on the Autocar site, pretty much the same car in different clothes I guess. |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 13:59
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Old Navy
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>> There is a review of the latest Golf GTE on the Autocar site, pretty much >> the same car in different clothes I guess. >> Badge engineering, even if not quite as obvious as the BMC / British Leyland days. Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 11 Apr 17 at 14:01
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Tue 11 Apr 17 14:45
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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And the Passat GTE is more practical. Same theoretical range because it uses a larger battery. Going back to standard batteries/cells, the ones in the Tesla are AA type cells (18650 form factor). They are packaged into battery modules and the top end cars have many thousands of cells. It would take some effort to remove all of the battery packs from a car. Here's a load of the modules - you can see the cells inside: tinyurl.com/kr4j4y4 The Model 3 will have cheaper cells that are made for Tesla by Panasonic at the new Gigafactory. Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 11 Apr 17 at 14:46
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Tue 11 Apr 17 15:33
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Hard Cheese
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>> It would take some effort to remove all of the battery packs >> from a car. >> It does not take much imagination to envisage a removal battery, perhaps via a trolley, around the size of a small suitcase though maybe a little flatter. A city car might use one or two, a top of the range Tesla six or eight, you would pull into a "filling" station where the depleted batteries would be removed and pre-charged replacements installed, you would not own the batteries, rather you would lease them giving you rights to any, say, two batteries in the system and would pay a recharge cost when swapping depleted batteries for fresh ones. |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 15:37
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Runfer D'Hills
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Or, you could just have sort of "pump" things which dispensed a hydro-carbon based liquid fuel in a few moments, into a pre-installed tank in the vehicle giving it a range of many hundreds of miles. ;-) |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 15:58
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - No FM2R
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Silly boy; you'd use the hydo-carbon based fuel to power an on-board generator to recharge your batteries so that the car stayed "green". Really, you need to think these things through and be more responsible towards the environment.. |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 16:24
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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>> Really, you need to think these things through and be more responsible towards the environment.. >> No no, if you want to actually be green, you must invent a technology that has only water coming out of the exhaust. Oh, here it is. ecars-now.wdfiles.com/local--files/why%3Asuper-ecocar/hydrogencar.png |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 19:28
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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Define many I suppose ;) Sometimess I can get 300 miles from the BMW before filling up; the Audi will do 1,000. |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 20:17
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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>> the Audi will do 1,000. But you do fill it up with electric every night. How far can you go on a full charge and full tank of petrol without charging again? Or is that where the 1000 mile figure comes from? Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 11 Apr 17 at 20:17
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Tue 11 Apr 17 23:06
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| Yes, the 1,000 miles is roughly how long it takes to use a full tank of petrol when it's charged nightly, with our pattern of usage. On a long journey, primarily petrol (though including the 20 miles or so of real world range from an overnight charge), 32 litres (its only got a 37 litre tank I think) will do around 450 miles, maybe 500 on a good day! |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 23:54
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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My A3 has a 50 litre tank and I've yet to manage 450 miles on a long run before it needs refilling. Therefore even with the overnight charge, your car is reclaiming energy and recharging the batteries. After all on batteries along the range is only 31 miles. I've got my demo booked for two months from now. I might try an A4 before then as well. |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 20:07
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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So, another 6 months have passed (almost...) and time for another update. Although, there’s really not much to report. Fuel economy is pretty much unchanged. It’s done just over 31k miles now and needs servicing (again!) in 1,600 miles. An inspection service this time, plus brake fluid. The MOT is due the month after. Sounds like an expensive month ;) In this period nothing’s gone wrong with it, though it does need another new windscreen. After a proper valet (£80!!) it’s still look like new. It’s managed 5 plus luggage on the shortish run to Gatwick, and it’s been to the Epernay region of France again. It’s used no oil, and it’s needed no more tyres. It’s a really good long distance cruiser, comfortable, quiet, quick and economical. Ours doesn’t have adaptive cruise, but on French motorway that hardly matters! The biggest issue for me now is where to go from here. It’s a deeply impressive car, but, not necessarily a car I want to run out of warranty. Combine that with what is inevitably going to be dated technology and changing soonish would seem sensible. Having said that, in the three years since it was launched none of the newer plug-in hybrids have longer ranges on battery. In fact it’s nearest (though not direct) competitor, ignoring its sister the Golf GTE, is probably the BMW 330E and that has an even lower range! But if we do change, I don’t intend spending the thick end of £40k on a newer version of the same. Fully electric Leafs and Zoe’s are available with a range far enough over 100 miles for them to be sensible daily car for us. They seem to be low to mid £20ks to buy. Or, back to petrol where a well specc’ed supermini is £15~17k after discount, or a Golf sized hatch is £20kish ... maybe time for another thread... ;) |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 20:31
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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| Won't derail you, but just to say Zoe's are a lot less than that! |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 20:54
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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>> Won't derail you, but just to say Zoe's are a lot less than that! >> I was looking at the buy outright buy route; I think Renaults ‘sell the car and lease the battery’ is a doomed model for EV motoring, but I’m sure I’ll be proved wrong! But if they’re sub £20k with no ongoing battery lease then it might be decision made! |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 21:06
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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Should be able to get a non battery lease one for about 17, or a Signature (top end one with Added bits) for about 19 or a bit less. Battery lease one you can get for just under 11. |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 21:08
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| Thanks; pointless maybe, but I’d want all the toys! Will take a look at the broker sites tomorrow. Sub £20k and I think it’s probably a no-brained for our use. And we already have a 32A charging point, though Sod’s law will say the Reanult uses a different connector to the Audi!! |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 21:17
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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Toys is just brown(no choice) leather, Bose audio, reversing camera (which is optional on lower spec) and folding mirrors. Zoe uses type 2. If you need a converter (£160 odd) then evcables.co.uk Are your friends. Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 27 Sep 17 at 21:18
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Wed 27 Sep 17 21:27
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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| Oh, and to add, Peter, if you're looking for a broker, I can't recommend DSG Renault highly enough if you want excellent service and keen pricing. Loads of Zoe owners use them, including me. They really know the product too, unlike lots of dealers. |
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Thu 28 Sep 17 11:53
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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Well, discounts for cash purchase are certainly high!! CarWow have come back with three offers, all with a 38.3% discount, off the list price of an I-Signature Quick Charge. Down from £31,270 (pre grant I assume) to £19,293. Best price for a PCP is £24,293. |
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Thu 28 Sep 17 12:20
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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Just to put the cat in the melting pot, if you were to buy a two year old used Zoe like mine (has the reversing camera as standard) then it would meet your 50 mile journeys with no issues, cost buttons to run, and would cost in non-lease form about 10k. Or 6k under lease. Just a thought if you want to save ten grand and put that towards Something Nicer. Do you need quick charge? Bet you would never/rarely need it for the pattern you describe and it costs a chunk more. |
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Thu 28 Sep 17 14:02
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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| Update @ 41.1% discount for a cash purchase - £18,407!! |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 21:36
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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That’s very helpful,thank you :) And fortunately the Audi is also a type 2. I had a 32A charger installed even though the Audi will only charge at 16A. It wasn’t much more. A further question, if I may. Renault claim a range of 250 miles, and a ‘real world’ range of 186 for the 40KWh version - does that seem about right based on your experience? Ours will primarily be used for a 50 miles round trip 3 times a week, which sounds eminently doable. But it is mainly along the A27 and will inevitably be driven at 70ish. Even in winter with heater on full blast, and at 70 mph 50 miles shouldn’t trouble it I assume |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 22:32
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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Mine is the older smaller battery. I'd be confident mine would do that journey at 70 in winter with no problem, though to be fair I simply don't travel at 70 in the Zoe or the Volvo, but nearer 60ish. Other roads it's just normal keep up with traffic, and I get about 75 miles in winter and 95 -113 (best ever) in summer. The new one will easily do it. Look on Speakev and you will see there's a "Club 200" thread where they discuss whether 200 is achievable. Someone there from Norway managed 150 miles with the current big battery Zoe at -24 degrees C. I think you'd be ok! |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 22:54
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Hard Cheese
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>> I was looking at the buy outright buy route; I think Renaults ‘sell the car >> and lease the battery’ is a doomed model for EV motoring, >> Why? Surely that future proofs to some extent, 1/ against battery performance degrading over time and 2/ potentially enabling access to improved battery technology. |
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Wed 27 Sep 17 23:38
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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>> >> Why? Surely that future proofs to some extent, 1/ against battery performance degrading over time >> and 2/ potentially enabling access to improved battery technology. >> It’s a good question :). It comes down to a couple of things to me really. Firstly, I’m not concerned about battery life really. It has an 8 year guarantee (albeit only that it retains 2/3rds of its capacity) which is fine. The range of our e-tron is exactly the same now as when new (or new ish...ours is an ex demonstrator). Sure, technology *might* change massively, but if that was a concern I’d lease or pcp the whole car. Secondly, cost. For 12,000miles a year Renault want £110 a month for the battery lease. Psychologically, that’s a lot. It’s the same as we’d spend in petrol on a small petrol car to do that mileage. It’s also nearly £8k over 6 years (the life I mentally depreciate all our car purchases over, though we seldom keep them that long). That’s a lot more than the premium for buying over leasing the actual car. Then, if iit was a good model others’d be using it. They don’t, because it’s an unnecessary level of complication. Lease or PCP the whole car, including battery, if your points are a concern. It’s probably the lowest risk approach. And on something like a Tesla, used as a main car and at a much higher price, that’s exactly what I’d do. Splitting it into two leases, or at least payments, just makes life difficult. Last edited by: PeterS on Wed 27 Sep 17 at 23:39
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Wed 27 Sep 17 23:40
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Crankcase
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Lease. 8 year 100k warranty on battery. If it degrades to 75% in that time you get a new battery. Non lease, exactly the same but 66%. Also with lease -you run out of juice for any reason including stupidity, they flatbed you to nearest charger. Non lease, they don't. Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 27 Sep 17 at 23:40
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Thu 28 Sep 17 14:09
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Hard Cheese
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>> Lease. 8 year 100k warranty on battery. If it degrades to 75% in that time >> you get a new battery. >> >> Non lease, exactly the same but 66%. >> >> Also with lease -you run out of juice for any reason including stupidity, they flatbed >> you to nearest charger. Non lease, they don't. >> That alone would justify the lease IMO, though I don't envisage being in the market for an EV or hybrid in the foreseeable future, my mileage is about 10k of which 2.5k at least is 400 miles in a day round trips. It might work for our second car though the 2005 120i does 35 ish MPG, it's been our second car, then only car, then second car, then only car, then second car again since we have had it (around 8 years), it's still good to drive at 105k miles, does about 5k a year now and doesn't owe us anything ... |
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Thu 28 Sep 17 14:15
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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£110 a month is a lot for a ‘breakdown’ service though;) In reality the range of my BMW is around 250 miles in normal use, and I haven’t ever run out. So I’m sure we can manage a 190~250 range with a battery :) |
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Thu 28 Sep 17 14:27
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Hard Cheese
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>> £110 a month is a lot for a ‘breakdown’ service though;) >> Seems to me that it's more than that. >> In reality the range of my BMW is around 250 miles in normal use, and >> I haven’t ever run out. So I’m sure we can manage a 190~250 range with >> a battery :) >> So you have only ever fueled the BMW locally and never when on a road trip away from home? |
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Thu 28 Sep 17 16:51
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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I’m not sure it is much more though is it? A slightly better battery warranty, but, knowing Renault, I imagine they either fail or not!! In terms of the BMW, yes of course. But it’s useage pattern is very different to that of the Audi. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of time that’s been refuelled away from home. Two of those were trips to France, which in reality we wouldn’t do in a Zoe. Though, as eurotunnel has chargers, as does the chateau we stay at (I plugged the e-tron in!!) it would be possible to do it with with a charge in each location. |
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Thu 28 Sep 17 22:19
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Avant
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As you like your A3, Peter, but don't want to spend the best part of £40k on a new / newer e-tron, I think that in your position I'd look seriously at another A3, but with the 1.5 TFSI petrol engine. On a long run you csan get over 50 mpg in this. The list price of these new is at least £10k less than an e-tron. If you only need a supermini, than an A1 like my wife's is worth a look. There's a new model due next year, so there will be good deals on the current model as there was on ours (a 1.4 TFSI) when we got it last December. It's undoubtedly the best small car we've had. If the two of us go on a long run we use it in preference to my diesel V60: it has just as much room in the front snf it uses less fuel. |
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Thu 28 Sep 17 22:30
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - PeterS
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Logically that makes perfect sense...except... My father has a brand new A3 1.5 TFSI... And, the current A3 is very highly specc’ed. If we ordered another, even with a cheaper drive train, not having all the things we currently have would seem like a backwards step... so a £20k A3 soon become a near £30k A3,which is not VFM. It’s sort of how we ended up with the e-tron in the first place. But today thee are fewer ex demonstrators, and they’re much lower pec and higher price than 2 years ago! On the supermini front, the new Ibiza is probably large enough... it’s available in a similar, if not higher, spec than our A3 with a DSG box and the 115PS engine for £17.5k after discount... |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 16:05
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - commerdriver
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>> So far the average cost per mile for my A3 is 14p. That's only petrol. >> No servicing, depreciation, insurance, etc. >> I get 11p per business mile, fuel only, on my Golf GTD company car and make a small profit |
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Tue 11 Apr 17 18:40
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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I wonder what you'd get if you had a Golf GTE? Because the BIK taxation will be lower than on a GTD.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 11 Apr 17 at 18:41
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Wed 12 Apr 17 00:20
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - Avant
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Plug-in hybrids like this are clearly a good idea for a company car (low BIK), or to buy nearly-new, as I think you did, PeterS. But they're much too expensive to buy new compared with the equivalent petrol or diesel version of the same car, and so far they don't hold their value any better. If they did, there might have been good PCP deals on them. I suppose they'll only become more popular if the price comes down, and the price will come down only if they become more popular.... |
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Wed 12 Apr 17 01:16
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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>> and the price will come down only if they become more popular.... When I've compared comparable Passat GT/GTE estates, the list price of the GTE is a fair bit more. I have not spec'd identical cars because my allowance won't allow me to add everything a MY2017 Passat GT estate comes with and then what I'd really want (GT has the TFT info display instead of dials and a panoramic sunroof). But I do wonder if they will make money on these plug-in hybrids at the moment. A 1.4TSI engine will be cheaper than a diesel but there's a lot in there. Are they selling at a loss or little profit to keep average CO2 emissions down? Possibly. As a private buyer these make little sense new. As a company car they seem to make a lot of sense. But I need to try it first. Apparently a lot of people are waiting to try these via the lease company. Hence me waiting until June until I get one over a weekend. |
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Wed 12 Apr 17 01:27
Audi - Audi A3 e-tron impressions - rtj70
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Assuming these plugin hybrids are making a profit, then I suppose you then have to think about the business model of Tesla. So a Passat Estate GTE might be about £40k with a 9KWh battery and a 30 mile range. Remove the petrol engine and gearbox etc and spend the money on batteries for the electric motor. Then you're in Tesla Model 3 territory. Except the Passat can only do about 80mph on battery power. An e-Golf is about £32k. A Golf GTE is about the same. Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 12 Apr 17 at 01:29
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