A woman was complaining bitterly about having her change "thrown into my hand".
Then went on to say the check-out staff "should count it into my hand like they do at Waitrose".
She left to the sound of laughter from those of us still waiting.
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I quite like Waitrose. Keeps the riff-raff out of M&S.
(Big Lidl shopper though consider Aldi the Waitrose of the pair).
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I shop at both now and again. It's shopping, it doesn't really matter at all. Lidl has nice stuff, Waitrose has even nicer stuff. Asda is cheap the only drawback it's like a scene from Shaun of the Dead..
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I guess you've never worked a till BT
I wouldn't make a fuss about it but the woman was correct. The right way to give change is to "count it back" to the customer. That is its the way I was taught as it avoids errors.
It was the standard method on old fashioned tills that didn't calculate the change and avoids the need for mental arithmetic.
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If she used a card or Applepay she wouldn't need to have her change counted back.
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Indeed,but she didn't so she did.
:-)
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>> If she used a card or Applepay she wouldn't need to have her change counted
>> back.
Applepay? in Lidl?
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>>Applepay? in Lidl?
Yip, both my local Aldi and Lidl accept Applepay.
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>> >>Applepay? in Lidl?
>>
>> Yip, both my local Aldi and Lidl accept Applepay.
do they? blimey
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Hurry up Z, there might be a few of those headlamp bulbs still going.
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I dont do apple pay. Any more than i do one eyed bulbs
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>> I guess you've never worked a till BT
Yes I have, but not for more than fifty years.
I also happen to know that till operators at ALDI are expected to check at least a thousand items per shift. I wouldn't be surprised if LIDL staff have their performance measured similarly. It explains the shelving opposite the tills and their impatience with customers who waste time at the tills packing bags, looking for their purse, etc. Customers are expected to load their shopping back in the trolley and bag it at the shelving.
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>> I wouldn't be surprised if LIDL staff have their performance measured similarly.>>
They have to stock the shelves as well as man the tills when necessary - it's certainly no sinecure...:-)
The local Aldi store was considerably extended about 12 months ago as it proved a big success right from its opening day some years ago, even though it's very close to a huge Tesco Extra and Home Bargains.
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>> Then went on to say the check-out staff "should count it into my hand like they do at Waitrose".
A shop near to where I used to work had quite a lot of foreign customers. The bent shopkeeper diddled quite a few of the Johnny Foreigner's by using this method.
Instead of counting all the change into the palm of their hand, he'd somehow lightly flick their palm instead giving the impression he'd put a coin into their hand, basically short changing them. He tried it on with me once, but I knew about his little trick and gave him a right old earful.
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A while ago someone complained that the staff in a nearby LIDL were speaking in Polish to some customers and between themselves. I know that they speak perfect slightly accented English to customers they do not know, maybe that is what confuses the indigenous population.:-)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2823575/Polish-workers-Lidl-told-stop-speaking-native-language-sacked.html
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 08:23
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>>A while ago someone complained that the staff in a nearby LIDL were speaking in Polish to some customers and between themselves.>>
My local Lidl is staffed almost exclusively by Polish employees. They work extremely hard, are very pleasant and I have no quibbles whatsoever whether they speak in their native language to each other or to customers in what is excellent English.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 09:25
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>>I quite like Waitrose. Keeps the riff-raff out of M&S.
Cheek...
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Yes, but it only takes one non-Polish speaking employee to say they feel "discriminated" against and the employer has to go through hoops to show how that isn't the case. So any employer has to at least think about this issue and probably be able to show they have done so if they don't want to end up in arguments at whatever level, footling or not.
See some examples here:
www.shoosmiths.co.uk/client-resources/legal-updates/Can-employers-insist-their-workers-speak-English-in-the-workplace-4004.aspx
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>>Yes, but it only takes one non-Polish speaking employee to say they feel "discriminated" against and the employer has to go through hoops to show how that isn't the case>>
Seems to be more hypothetical than possible reality, at least in my local store.
The town has had quite a sizable Polish community for a number of years and, in fact, the connection goes back to the beginning of the second world war, when the Poles played a substantial role in maintaining and flying Spitfires at a then newly established RAF airfield.
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Are you speaking of Reading, Stuartli? Same applies here if not. Woodcote/Woodley airfields. I live round the corner from a few ex-RAF officer houses which were sold off at staggeringly low process in the 1990s. 3-bed semis for £40k. About the same time I bought a 2-bed flat in town for £44k. Wish I'd known about the MoD fire sale.
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Were Poles only allowed to settle places starting with Wood..... after the war?
:-)
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"Wish I'd known about the MoD fire sale."
I can't say that I entirely hold with publicly-owned property being sold off cheaply and bought by individuals keen to make a profit ......
;-)
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Me neither, it's a bit of a scandal really. Ah well, market forces, see?
;-)
In all seriousness, I don't think I'd be any better off now than I already am in terms of property equity if I had bought one, I traded up my flat for a tidy (property bubble generated)profit after two years for a renovation project, and have move on since then. I'd probably have made roughly the same (accidental, fortunate) paper gains, as I'd have moved on from that house just as I did the renovation project after 10 years due to the expanding family.
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>> Me neither, it's a bit of a scandal really. Ah well, market forces, see?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> In all seriousness, I don't think I'd be any better off now than I already
>> am in terms of property equity if I had bought one,
There are many issues in buying ex mod property. Strange issues with services, non standard construction, legal clauses, problems with freeholds, all sorts of stuff.
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> There are many issues in buying ex mod property. Strange issues with services, non standard
>> construction, legal clauses, problems with freeholds, all sorts of stuff.
>>
Apart from water, sewage and confusing the postman, they aren't really that odd. How would there be an issue with freehold, was this along time ago?
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>> > There are many issues in buying ex mod property. Strange issues with services, non
>> standard
>> >> construction, legal clauses, problems with freeholds, all sorts of stuff.
>> >>
>>
>> Apart from water, sewage and confusing the postman, they aren't really that odd. How would
>> there be an issue with freehold, was this along time ago?
I said that was one of many possible different issues, and no it wasn't long ago.
Have you bought one?
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> I said that was one of many possible different issues, and no it wasn't long
>> ago.
>>
>> Have you bought one?
>>
I haven't no. I was interested to know more what these issues were?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 13:15
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>> I haven't no. I was interested to know more what these issues were?
I have posted one example.
There was also the oddball one of a load of houses being built over the MOD national fuel and oil pipeline. The MOD didn't care at the time. The insurance companies were horrified and refused to insure.
There was also a case of a bit of MOD land being sold off for a housing estate, the rest stayed with MOD till the give built a detention centre on it. The new householders now have illegals screaming at them from windows all day. MOD dont need planning permission to change use of land they own.
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I suppose with much in life it's Caveat Emptor. You win some, you lose some. Bit of a shame when it's the biggest purchase/investment in someone's life though.
You'd have to be either naïve or barking to buy an ex-forces house right next to a continuing MoD facility, but I suppose people do it if they're cheap enough. Like buying a recent Laguna or something ;-). As you rightly say though an ex MoD house in a normal suburban area, remote from MoD facilities, should be a safe purchase.
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> You'd have to be either naïve or barking to buy an ex-forces house right next> to a continuing MoD facility, but I suppose people do it if they're cheap enough.
Like buying a recent Laguna or something ;-). As you rightly say though an exMoD house in a normal suburban area, remote from MoD facilities, should be a safe purchase.
Yeah not really a problem selling them even if they are near a military base. New housing estates spring up next to them as well. Quite a few round here, never seem to be a shortage of buyers.
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> There was also a case of a bit of MOD land being sold off for
>> a housing estate, the rest stayed with MOD till the give built a detention centre
>> on it. The new householders now have illegals screaming at them from windows all day.
>> MOD dont need planning permission to change use of land they own
cheers for the examples. Pretty sure they do, i know of one that was turned into a prison and they had to go through the council. And i know they have to for new buildings.
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>>Pretty sure they do
I think they should normally, but they can override depending on reason.
i.e. you don't need planning permission for an airfield in a war.
I know that one issue can be that much MOD land was commandeered for a purpose. When that purpose no longer exists the land is supposed to be returned to the original/rightful owner.
That act of returning can be fraught with difficulty, disagreement and court cases.
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>> >>Pretty sure they do
>>
>> I think they should normally, but they can override depending on reason.
>>
yes I've no doubt that is on the books, but very rarely used. I wonder when it was last used?
Yes handing land back can be tricky. I know of a couple of bases that are granted to the government back in the inter war period. Pretty sure it needs turning back to how it was. In one case that is farmland. How much that would cost i dredd to think.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 13:53
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> In one case that is farmland.
Yes, that triggered a memory.
That was exactly part of the argument in Bicester when it needed to be turned back to farm land, nobody could get a change of use on it but everybody who wanted it, wanted it for housing.
Huge argument involving such points as if it had never been commandeered it would have been housing by now, so this represented value lost by the owners because of the commandeering etc. etc. etc.
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>> > In one case that is farmland.
>>
>> Yes, that triggered a memory.
>>
>> That was exactly part of the argument in Bicester when it needed to be turned back to farm land, nobody could get a change of use on it but everybody who wanted it, wanted it for housing.
wasn't part of it because the mod didn't leave totally? Pretty sure that an army unit is still there?
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Bicester has small chunks of Army around, and a large MOD storage depot which is actually three large storage depots linked by a military railway. Some of the depot is leased out for industry, and the boundaries between MOD and Public are a little blurred.
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>> Bicester has small chunks of Army around, and a large MOD storage depot which is actually three large storage depots linked by a military railway. Some of the depot is leased out for industry, and the boundaries between MOD and Public are a little blurred.
Yeah i think at bicester is the last railway unit in the military. It did get bigger/ used more a few years back when stafford shut as a depot.
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There is more than one camp, more than one unit and historically more than one "acquisition" at more than one time. It also not all Army.
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>> There is more than one camp, more than one unit and historically more than one "acquisition" at more than one time. It also not all Army.
>>
Yes quite a few named units actually cover a fair bit of land and are spread out. Cosford is another that springs to mind. Split up with bits all over the place.
I think the only military units there are army though, which is what i meant. Storage depot troops from an rlc supply unit and a railway unit, can't think of any others off the top of my head?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 16:23
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Well, its not there now but RAF Bicester for example? Bombers, I think. And USAF.
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>> Well, its not there now but RAF Bicester for example? Bombers, I think. And USAF.
>>
Ahh in the past yes, i was talking about units there now.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 16:38
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"RAF Bicester"
My wife's family was stationed at Bicester - she claims that her father, an Engineering W.O., worked on Javelins (Gloster, not Jowett).
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Whilst accepting Zero's points, the houses I was referring to are of standard construction and are unencumbered with other issues. The 3-bed semi's I'd have been able to afford were sold for about £40k in the late nineties and would be pushing 500k now. Some big detached officers' houses were about 70k when sold and are upwards of 900k now.
Billy bargains, they were. MoD let them go daft cheap.
I doubt this would be the case for some of the concrete and steel monstrosities like you find around Camberley for instance, but standard brick built efforts were well worth seeking out. I remember looking at a Close of them in Twickenham in about 2004 which were being renovated for private sale. A mate bought one and has done very nicely indeed.
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>> which were being renovated for private sale. A mate bought one and has done very
>> nicely indeed.
I know of a case of Naval Officers houses, attached to a research base. The houses were sold off as housing and renovated. Some time later the research base was sold off. Road access to the houses was cut, and was their services, all perfectly legal apparently. The row of houses then had to buy land, pay for an access to be made to the main road (refused twice by the council -granted by sec of state on appeal) and pay for services, all of them, to be laid in on the new route.
cheap it wasn't.
Having said that, there are some very ordinary locations where MOD has property, places where you wouldn't even think of it. I bet the ones Al mention were built for the NPL (as it is now) at Twickenham.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 13:19
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>> Whilst accepting Zero's points, the houses I was referring to are of standard construction and are unencumbered with other issues. The 3-bed semi's I'd have been able to afford were sold for about £40k in the late nineties and would be pushing 500k now. Some big detached officers' houses were about 70k when sold and are upwards of 900k now.
Actually that reminds me, there's a fair more coming on the market along with land to build more loads more. Twelve bases and their houses are about to put on the market.
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There was a brilliant court case recently up here which fully showed how bonkers the system is.
Fish factory in Scotland filled with Polish staff. They were told not to speak Polish in the workplace. Some couldn't speak English. Their manager was Polish.
One staff member was being disciplined and didn't speak English.
The Polish manager was not allowed to do the hearing in Polish so had to pay for a Polish translator to come in to translate the Polish manager's English into Polish for the Polish employee and then translate it back into English for the Polish manager again!
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>> www.scottishlegal.com/2016/01/11/woman-banned-from-speaking-polish-at-work-wins-5000-payout/
>>
>> I got the facts slightly wrong but the same idea!
Its not unreasonable to insist that english speaking is a pre requisite for getting a job in the uk. Nor is it unreasonable to insist that employment procedures be carried out in english. (or welsh or Jockish)
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Indeed, Z. I used to work in a multi-lingual call centre environment in the UK, where conversations between colleagues had to be carried out in English only. Makes sense to do so.
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There have long beem strong links between Scotland and Poland, even during the cold war era, not least because the Polish armed forces were stationed largely up here during WW2.
The map built in the 70s near Peebles is a little known gem, worth a gawk if anyone passed by the area:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Polish_Map_of_Scotland
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I stayed there a few years back but they never mentioned the map and I left without seeing it...
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>> There have long beem strong links between Scotland and Poland, even during the cold war
>> era, not least because the Polish armed forces were stationed largely up here during WW2.
>>
>> The map built in the 70s near Peebles is a little known gem, worth a
>> gawk if anyone passed by the area:
>>
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Polish_Map_of_Scotland
There has always been a large Polish community in Hammersmith, of all places.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 13:57
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Bedford's got a large Polish community. There used to be two Polish clubs (only one now). I believe they originated from the Polish squadrons of WW2.
There's a large Italian population as well. The only Italian consulate outside London. Used to be an Italian POW camp there.
Now they've Yarlswood immigration detention centre!
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 14:41
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I was always told that Bedford had a lot of Polish workers
see
tinyurl.com/pz38tt
Lots of info.
The brick companies built hostels for them and the other European Volunteer Workers who came from displaced persons camps throughout Europe, principally Poland and the Ukraine
There was a mass migration from the south of Italy to Bedford.
The brickworks continued to employ a high percentage of Italians and Eastern Europeans, but as they moved away to other employment more recent immigrants from India, Pakistan and the West Indies took the jobs the brickworks.
Recruiting labour from abroad has an interesting history.
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Heading to Peebles this weekend - might take a nosey.
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I will have to visit the map, not visiting places on your doorstep seems to be common.
There is an impressive Polish war cemetery on the slopes of Monte Cassino, I have only seen it from the monastery, it must be huge close up.
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So, when you go into a supermarket in Spain, France, Greece or even Poland and the assistant is astute enough to identify you as an English speaker, and is kind enough to speak it to you in English to help you complete the transaction, or even just to pass the time of day, you would prefer that their employer took a dim view of that in future so as not to discriminate against other employees?
Have I got that right?
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>> So, when you go into a supermarket in Spain, France, Greece or even Poland and
>> the assistant is astute enough to identify you as an English speaker, and is kind
>> enough to speak it to you in English to help you complete the transaction,
>> Have I got that right?
No. Specially in France you need to be also met with rolling eyes, shrugs of indifference, and snotty comments to the other French speakers in the queue.
And that peanuts compared to the waiters...........
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We go to France at some point most summers and have done for many years. By and large they are charming to us, ( especially if you mention that you are Scottish )
;-)
But seriously, if a shop assistant, barman, petrol station attendant, whatever, is kind enough to conduct the transaction with a British customer in another country in English how does that differ from a person operating a till in a British supermarket who happens to speak the language of the customer, using it to make them feel more at ease?
Seems a bit of an odd one to me.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 19:50
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We're insular Humph, we don't have to learn the languages of all important contiguous countries, plus US English of course, like those poor continentals.
It's why we have this lordly air that so annoys foreigners.
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SQ 4 LB
>> Seems a bit of an odd one to me.
You aint gonna get many tourists in Lidl in Kirkcaldy. I am more concerned that immigrants think they can come here to work and and not bother to learn the language.
I have the same grouse with brits abroad as well. You go to live abroad, you get up to speed PDQ
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 21:48
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>> You aint gonna get many tourists in Lidl in Kirkcaldy.
You would be surprised Z, the Fife coast is quite busy in the summer.
www.fifecoastandcountrysidetrust.co.uk
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they dont go there for the Lidl.
As part of my point i refer to the line in that news report
they expect to be served in Polish
Its a British store in a British town. They should expect nothing of the sort.
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Whether it's "expected" or not, it is sort of polite to provide that service if you happen to have staff who can. Isn't it?
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>> Whether it's "expected" or not, it is sort of polite to provide that service if
>> you happen to have staff who can. Isn't it?
No! Its NOT a provided service. They were not given jobs because of their ability to speak Polish. What happens when there are no polish speakers available? Hold up the queue till you get one from doing stock taking duties because "customers expect it" Sort out your duty rosters and rotas so you have polish speakers available at all times? Its an expectation that can't be allowed to flourish form a business model or operation.
Where does it stop? Only english and somali speakers allowed jobs in Lidl in East Ham? Hindu only spoken in Lidl in Southall, English only speakers need not apply?
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 20:34
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Why are you getting so ( apparently ) het up? I'm not for one moment suggesting it should be an offered or mandatory service, just that it seems to me to be a common courtesy to be more helpful to a customer if a staff member happens to be able to do so. My employer owns some shops, I'm not directly involved in their day to day running, but if I happen to be in one and notice a customer struggling a bit because of a language barrier I can help with, then I'll try to help. Thats ok isn't it? That's not discrimination is it?
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>> Why are you getting so ( apparently ) het up?
Because its important for the country during a period of high immigration.
I'm not for one moment
>> suggesting it should be an offered or mandatory service, just that it seems to me
>> to be a common courtesy to be more helpful to a customer if a staff
>> member happens to be able to do so.
This case is beyond that. The arguments presented here are that customers go there because of the staff language abilities. Its a USP. Now given that you are aware of the business model that lidl have adopted, and the catchment areas they serve, you can see how they can not profitably accommodate and allow that kind of precedent to become prevalent.
>> help with, then I'll try to help. Thats ok isn't it? That's not discrimination is
>> it?
The people in the shops that are whining about discrimination are actively promoting discrimination.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 20:50
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>> Its a British store in a British town. They should expect nothing of the sort.
>>
>>
I agree with that.
Tourists use the local supermarkets as there are static and touring holiday caravan parks nearby.
www.pettycur.co.uk
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>> You aint gonna get many tourists in Lidl in Kirkcaldy.
I wonder how many people know how to pronounce Kirkcaldy? It isn't immediately obvious to those from south of Watford, or souht of Scotch Corner for that matter.
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>> I wonder how many people know how to pronounce Kirkcaldy?
We have chuckle at some southern based news readers attempts. I works both ways though, my London resident B in Law fell about laughing when I said that we had stopped for a coffee in Bi - ces - ter. He then informed me it is Bister. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 20:39
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I works both ways though,
>> my London resident B in Law fell about laughing when I said that we had
>> stopped for a coffee in Bi - ces - ter. He then informed me it
>> is Bister. :-)
>>
Plenty in england struggle with that one too. I think I did first time I clapped eyes on it.
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And Launceston in Cornwall.
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>>laow-ces-ton?
Many Cornish (proper Cornish) would pronounce it as Lanson.
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>> Many Cornish (proper Cornish) would pronounce it as Lanson.
Exactly what Miss B was told.
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Try Milngavie or Ardnamurchan.
( Mul-guy and Ard-Na-murra-chan, "ch" as in "loch" not as in "lock" )
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Try Milngavie or Ardnamurchan.
How true it is I don't know, but I was told that many of the Scottish oddities came about because the name was first written by monks and if pronounced as latin was at that time, you do get something approximating to the correct name.
Milgavie is a very snooty area and addresses with that in the name are prized, bit like Dulwich Village. (And Dulwich is pronounced Dulidge too...).
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Since everyone is doing it: Kirkcaldy is pronounced something like 'Kirkoddy', slight emphasis on the middle syllable, and Scots may pronounce the R distinctly although English RP speakers usually won't...
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 25 Jan 16 at 14:04
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>> >> Many Cornish (proper Cornish) would pronounce it as Lanson.
>>
>> Exactly what Miss B was told.
Yet Lawnceston in Tasmania is pronounced Lawn ces ton.
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Plenty in Kent for the unwary.
Wrotham - Root-am
Meopham - Mapam
There are more but those two always spring to mind.
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>> Plenty in Kent for the unwary.
>> Wrotham - Root-am
>> Meopham - Mapam
>>
>> There are more but those two always spring to mind.
>>
Try Wales.
Eglwyswrw.
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>> Try Wales.
>>
>> Eglwyswrw.
>>
Egg-loy-soo-roo.
The village which recently came within four days of breaking a record for continuous days of rain.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-35360798
Have to admit I had a slight chuckle when I read on the BBC news that it was making the locals miserable; personal experience of the local farmers is that they're miserable come rain or shine!
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Not sure if anyone else was suggesting otherwise, I certainly wasn't. I'm just trying to understand if you think a "foreign" service provider should be seen as discriminating against his or her colleagues if they choose to help a customer in English if that happens to be the customer's first language and the assistant is able to speak it?
Not commenting at all on any social obligation on the part of the customer. Merely suggesting that at the most basic analysis of the situation the use of languages in business other than that of the parent company is not unprecedented if it helps to complete the transaction more efficiently or helpfully.
I happen to speak one other European language well and a further couple adequately, I often use them in business meetings with visitors to the UK who prefer to conduct them, or more accurately, often feel more relaxed conducting them in their own first language. I'm struggling a little bit to see how that could be seen as me discriminating against my colleagues who are not directly involved in that transaction.
Anyway, as per, not looking for an argument...just presenting another point of view.
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I try to speak German when over there, although I'm a bit rusty. However, they usually are quite tolerant/amused, and keen to break into English when it's getting a bit slow. North Wales however is quite another matter. Not charming in the slightest….
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>> I'm struggling a little bit to see how that could be seen as me discriminating
>> against my colleagues who are not directly involved in that transaction.
>>
>> Anyway, as per, not looking for an argument...just presenting another point of view.
I think the chances are the customer thing has been thrown into the pot as a red herring anyway, whats happening here is a: there is a requirement of them to speak english to get the job, b: gossiping on the shop floor and canteen in Polish causes cliques, exclusion and profesional workplace misunderstandings.
"customers expect polish speaking staff" is not a valid argument, as used in defence in that article and should not be allowed as a reason or excuse, - allowing that thing to become prevalent causes a lack of social integration and "ghettoism"
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I think my take on this is to apply the call centre rule from my previous employer. By all means speak a foreign language with the customer (in fact I'd encourage where it is deemed beneficial to the business, as good customer service), but conversations between staff colleagues should all be conducted in English at all times. I think that can be applied to just about any working environment where paying customers are involved that I can think of.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 09:48
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>> I am more concerned
>> that immigrants think they can come here to work and and not bother to learn
>> the language.
They don't all just 'come here' Z. They're sought out by agencies contracted to provide the labour that keeps your supermarket shelves filled.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827625/Factory-bosses-forced-recruit-Hungary-locals-not-apply.html
If they don't need English to do the job the employer is probably not that bothered.
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>> They don't all just 'come here' Z. They're sought out by agencies contracted to provide
>> the labour that keeps your supermarket shelves filled.
And they mostly have english as a second language
>> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827625/Factory-bosses-forced-recruit-Hungary-locals-not-apply.html
>>
>> If they don't need English to do the job the employer is probably not that
>> bothered.
I would guess they are extremely bothered, places with low wage structures dont have the business model to have expensive multilingual procedures training or processes or support. The only place that wont apply is the work gangs in the fens and alike.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 22:01
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>> I would guess they are extremely bothered, places with low wage structures dont have the
>> business model to have expensive multilingual procedures training or processes or support. The only place
>> that wont apply is the work gangs in the fens and alike.
The example I quoted will, given their size, structure and client base either insist on English or decide the cost of some foreign language support is justifiable. My point was that it's no longer just about people coming here to look for work.
And there's plenty of other factory work where the employer isn't bothered as long as the product keeps moving down the line.
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>> No. Specially in France you need to be also met with rolling eyes, shrugs of
>> indifference, and snotty comments to the other French speakers in the queue.
>>
>> And that peanuts compared to the waiters...........
Have you tried parts of Wales?
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>>Have you tried parts of Wales?>>
You beat me to that as I've just got back from enjoying a few pints of Guinness.
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>> rolling eyes, shrugs of indifference, and snotty comments to the other French speakers in the queue.
>> And that peanuts compared to the waiters...........
The damnable cheek of some French waiters (most are fine of course) is quite beyond belief.
I'm not a violent or physical person, but I once stood up abruptly into a waiter giving me gyp. If he hadn't hopped nimbly backwards he would have got the top of my head right in his ugly mug, the carphound... I told the headwaiter to send another waiter and he did, or came himself, can't remember. Never went to that dump again although it was a good place.
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>> www.scottishlegal.com/2016/01/11/woman-banned-from-speaking-polish-at-work-wins-5000-payout/
>>
>> I got the facts slightly wrong but the same idea!
>>
It seems some of the staff couldn't speak English. Then how did they get through the interview? Surely it must be a condition that staff can speak English?
What happens in an emergency?
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Exactly Duncan.
I think I've related this before but I was loading cornflakes from processing plant at Peterborough when I went into the canteen to use the coffee machine.
The manager was trying to do an induction of gang of 12 workers and et through all the safety procedures but it became clear none of them understood a word.
He stood up and shouted 'Fire Fire' a couple of times and still they sat there.
Next he sent them all away and turned to me and said, 'what good is it sending me them if they can't understand an emergency?'
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 09:14
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>> It seems some of the staff couldn't speak English. Then how did they get through
>> the interview? Surely it must be a condition that staff can speak English?
Suppose impersonation is a theoretical possibility, ie someone else attended the interview.
Far more likely though that they're recruited via an agency (or the internal recruiter is on a different set of rules to the supervisor) and as long as the line keeps moving......
As to the emergency thing and proper H&S generally is it possible that smaller employers (at least) think it won't happen. And if it does they'll be lucky and avoid injuries etc OR 'something will turn up' to get them off the hook.
See a fair number at work whom we cannot help without a friend to translate for them. Not all from East, quite a few from Portugal.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 14:18
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Bicester aside, the one that makes me chuckle is the Staffordshire town of Towcester. (Toaster?!).
Worcester seems to fool nobody thanks to their sauce, except the Americans sometimes...
My family hark from a Warwickshire town called Alcester, which a few people struggle with.
There are far more difficult town names in NZ though. Anyone fancy trying Whenuakite, or Kuaotunu..?!!!!
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>> Bicester aside, the one that makes me chuckle is the Staffordshire town of Towcester. (Toaster?!).
Quite right but Towcester is Northamptonshire not Staffs.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 21:58
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Quite right Bromp.
I was thinking of Rocester in Staffs - where the JCBs come from! Roaster?!
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I like Bicester.......
Makes good gravy ......as in Aaah Bicester...
Coat please....
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Mrs A still gets bit of a ribbing for pronouncing High Wycombe as hi-why-kombi when she first arrived on these shores. Poor girl was fluent in English having learnt it in the British school in Addis Ababa and used it as a first language in jobs in Canada, Denmark and Benelux before coming to Britain, but hadn't spent much time here to become accustomed to place names.
I'm sure all of us are unaware of many correct pronunciations. Welsh ones being an obvious example - I had my mate's family (Swansea folk) in kinks with my attempts to pronounce Pontarddulais some years ago. Still haven't lived it down. I managed to read it as if it were French. Pont-ar-dyoulay. Sheesh. Did I sound a pretentious blue garden bird.
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Another is Cholmondeley in Cheshire, home of the annual Pageant of Power and Speed (similar to the Goodwood Festival of Speed).
Looks very French, but it's pronounced, I was told when attending the event, as Chumley....
Details of this year's event in June:
www.cpop.co.uk/
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Ah, we know of that one in these parts, as we have a Cholmondley Road in a part of town with many roads named after northern, erm, powerhouses. Manchester, Liverpool, that kind of thing.
Bizarrely there's a 1990s built estate here where all the roads are named after unpronounceable Welsh settlements. Why that kind of problem gets inflicted upon people when it's not necessary is unfathomable. English Place Names for English Places - there, I've started a new movement.
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There's a place near Coltishall called Hautbois . Have hear this pronounced in the French manner with silent aitch by newcomers. The local pronunciation is Hobbis.
Coltishall itself is pronounced Coltshull.
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Um ... There's a goonhusband in Cornwall don't cha know :o)
www.explorebritain.info/locality-cornwall-goonhusband-sw6625
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Theydon Boys or Theydon Bwah? Same question for Chesham. No idea myself.
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SWMBO was brought up in Theydon Boys.
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Thank you. Next time I'm in those parts I shall be sure to pronounce it Bwah.
;-)
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Google navigation is very literal in it's pronunciation of Reading (= reeding).
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There's a place near Coltishall called Hautbois . Have hear this pronounced in the French manner with silent aitch by newcomers. The local pronunciation is Hobbis.
Almost certainly Norman French in origin, 'High wood' in English. Probably had a local pronunciation since 14th Century or even earlier.
Theydon Bois is not similar despite the spelling. The Bois bit comes from the family that held the manor in the 12th and 13 centuries, the Bois family. No idea about the Theydon bit and even the Bois pronunciation is recent, and dates from when the railway came. Should of course be 'Boys'.
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>> There's a place near Coltishall called Hautbois
Should be pronounced 'oboes' I think. Indeed those woodwind instruments were originally spelt 'hautbois', weren't they?
How amusing this all is.
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Actually orignates from the de Alto Bosco, or de Haut Bois family who acquired the land after the conquest.
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>> There's a place near Coltishall called Hautbois . Have hear this pronounced in the French
>> manner with silent aitch by newcomers. The local pronunciation is Hobbis.
We used to have a pub near us called The Hautbois. It was pronounced locally as the "The Sh-t Hole."
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> Coltishall itself is pronounced Coltshull.
>>
Never heard it spoken like that, who says it like that? Heard that name spoken plenty of times and by plenty that lived there and never that way.
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I guess that most now sound the i. The local pronunciation is as stated The i sound is often swallowed in Norfolk dialect. Garboldisham is Garbolsum for example. Rapidly disappearing with the influx of furreners from outside the county
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>> I guess that most now sound the i.
No just as it's written, colti-shawl. Or more commonly, simply 'colt'.
Rapidly disappearing
>> with the influx of furreners from outside.
Aye that be it.
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Here's a list of Norfolk place name pronunciations.
www.visitnorfolk.co.uk/Inspire-Dialect.aspx
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>> Welsh ones being an
>> obvious example - I had my mate's family (Swansea folk) in kinks with my attempts
>> to pronounce Pontarddulais some years ago. Still haven't lived it down.
You shouldn't let the welsh - of all people - dictate to you how you should pronounce a name place.
If you want to call it 'pont - ar - doo - lays' then do so.
How do you pronounce P A R I S? You don't call it Paree, do you?
:-)
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>>
>> How do you pronounce P A R I S? You don't call it Paree, do
>> you
>> :-)
Best to in France I find.
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>> Best to in France I find.
>>
But he isn't and we aren't.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Jan 16 at 22:50
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>> >> Best to in France I find.
>>
>> But he isn't and we aren't.
But he has been in his day and so have most of the rest of us.
However hard you try, and however fluent you may be in their language, the Frogs are going to disparage your grammar and pronunciation mercilessly.
It's a sort of inferiority complex, French not being the world language as English is more or less, ponce ponce... and the French take it quite badly if one comments lightly on their own grotesque attempts to pronounce English words. The word yacht for example is spat out as 'yatchtch' or something along those lines.
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Yacht in Dutch is Jacht we pronounce the ch.I was watching a Swedish film surprised me how similar Nordic languages are.
Good shop LIDL I often buy roggebrood. (Ryebread) There Chocolat is really good.
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>> Yacht in Dutch is Jacht we pronounce the ch.I was watching a Swedish film surprised
>> me how similar Nordic languages are.
>>
Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are mutually intelligible.
Finnish, however, is totally different. Most in common with Hungarian then Estonian.
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>> I was watching a Swedish film surprised
>> me how similar Nordic languages are.
Whilst watching the Danish series The Kiling it struck me how much Geordie could be heard in the language. Makes sense, the Danes invaded and settled that bit of coast after all. Some of my relatives in Northumberland reckon that fishing boat crews from there can converse quite easily with Norwegian fishermen, each using their own dialect.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 26 Jan 16 at 09:14
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>> I was watching a Swedish film surprised me how similar Nordic languages are.
I would have thought a grunt and a groan would have been the same in any language ;)
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I have to agree with Alanovic ,having been brought up in Northumberland, that when listening to Saga in the Bridge it was sometimes like being back in Alnwick.......pronounced Annick not Arlnwick or Allenwick.
Geordie however apparently had more of its origin in the language of the Angles of West Germany.
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Thinking more on this, the Angles were from the northernmost part of Germany and Jutland which is modern day Denmark so it is hardly surprising that there are similarities
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I can never work out how we call that north German city Cologne, when the k****s call it Koln. Why don't we call it Koln too?
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? Eh? The swear filter blanked out an abbreviation of sauerkraut which is commonly used for people who come from Germany?
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>> I can never work out how we call that north German city Cologne, when the
>> k****s call it Koln. Why don't we call it Koln too?
>>
Because the English language doesn't happily tolerate too many consonants next to each other in the same word, our natural mode of speech inserts the extra "O".
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It isn't Koln, it's Köln, with an umlaut. Tsk!
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why don't the French call "London" London? Because they dont. Sometimes 'because' is ample reason.
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There are lot of anglicised city names. Vienna for Wien, Florence for Firenze, Rome for Roma, Brussels for Bruxelles or Brussels, for example. We English sometimes drop th anglicised version as we become mor acquainted with the original version. Lyons (pronounced lions) was the usual pronunciation a few decades ago but is now seldom heard in favour of Lyon pronounced in the Frwnch manner. Marseilles was similarly pronounced Marsales not so long ago but that pronunciation is now seldom heard.
Majorca is in a trnsitional stage. The j sound as in jam is still heard but most now seem to use an approximation of the Spanish pronunciation.
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>> Frwnch
Don't bring Welsh in to it. Again.
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Coleridge didn't like Cologne
In Köhln, a town of monks and bones,
And pavements fang'd with murderous stones
And rags, and hags, and hideous wenches ;
I counted two and seventy stenches,
All well defined, and several stinks !
Ye Nymphs that reign o'er sewers and sinks,
The river Rhine, it is well known,
Doth wash your city of Cologne ;
But tell me, Nymphs, what power divine
Shall henceforth wash the river Rhine ?
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>> There are lot of anglicised city names. Vienna for Wien
You think that's weird, Serbs call Vienna "Betch" (transliterating here so it's readable to people who don't read Cyrillic or Serbo-Croat Latinised script with its accents). I've no idea how they got that.
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Even my German colleagues unfailingly use 'Cologne', 'Munich', 'Vienna' rather than the German names when discussing them in English; it's just easier. And I'd challenge anyone to attempt the local versions of Copenhagen or Gothenburg without sounding absurdly pretentious - think Lynda Snell.
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>>Serbs call Vienna "Betch"
Because of the confusion between 'V's and 'B's, which are used almost interchangeably. Indeed they are produced almost the same by the mouth, B being plosive, V being its fricative close sibling. The Spaniards don't manage the difference between them...
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I can see that is possibly part of it, MM, but how they get an -etch sound from an -ien sound is what baffles me.
The V/B thing might be a red herring anyway, Slavs don't confuse those sounds like the Spanish do, I can only presume it's an old Slavic or even Celtic (Celts used to dominate central Europe, Belgrade was their capital once) place name which predates the Germanic one.
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Ah, here we go MM, from Wikipedia:
"The name of the city in Hungarian (Bécs), Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian (BeÄ) and Ottoman Turkish (Beç) appears to have a different, Slavonic origin, and originally referred to an Avar fort in the area.[38] Slovene-speakers call the city Dunaj, which in other Central European Slavic languages means the Danube River, on which the city stands."
Case closed.
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>>Slavs don't confuse those sounds like the Spanish do
No, but Cyril used the Latin letter B to represent his V sound.
Anyway, you seem to have solved this particular problem.
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Don't leave out Methodius. Poor s0d is forever in Cyril's shadow.
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>> I have to agree with Alanovic ,having been brought up in Northumberland, that when listening
>> to Saga in the Bridge it was sometimes like being back in Alnwick.......pronounced Annick not
>> Arlnwick or Allenwick.
Which sits on the River Aln - pr. Allen by the locals.
Which is a remarkably similar word to Koln?
>> Because the English language doesn't happily tolerate too many consonants next to each other in
>> the same word, our natural mode of speech inserts the extra "O".
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How, ignoring any regional/dialect factors, would Koln be pronounced in German?
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Say "Kerln" in a Geordie accent and you're pretty much there.
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One of my team is a native of Cologne. His Frankfurter colleagues make fun of his 'funny northern accent'. Some things are the same wherever you go!
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'Keln' is quite close. It's all we can manage because there isn't an ö sound in English.
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In LIDL this morning - Fursty Ferret
