Which Sat Nav would the team choose today using their own money. Preferably with free lifetime updates. My old Garmin is eight years old and updates are not cost effective.
Thanks.
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Google maps on my android phone gives me what I want on the odd occasion I need it - it seems to be up to date and it's free. I used it yesterday by coincidence, and it knew about a relatively new junction near us. I don't use it enough to need bells and whistles which l might get in a paid-for version.
Last edited by: Mike H on Mon 19 Oct 15 at 08:21
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>> Google maps on my android phone gives me what I want on the odd occasion
>> I need it - it seems to be up to date and it's free.
It is up to date, and its free. However.
In the dales, a: I ran out of data allowance and had to pay for a data boost, and b: I ran out of 4g/3g signal and ran out of directions
in short, you can't rely on it when you really need it. you can with a dedicated unit.
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>>in short, you can't rely on it when you really need it. you can with a dedicated unit. <<
Why not keep a copy of HERE on the phone, permanently available, free, and no data allowance required. OK it does not have real time traffic updates, but I doubt whether congestion in the Dales is a real problem. Herding sheep in flocks may delay you, but the trains do not run on time anyway:)
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>> >>in short, you can't rely on it when you really need it. you can with
>> a dedicated unit. <<
>>
>> Why not keep a copy of HERE on the phone, permanently available, free, and no
>> data allowance required. OK it does not have real time traffic updates, but I doubt
>> whether congestion in the Dales is a real problem. Herding sheep in flocks may delay
>> you, but the trains do not run on time anyway:)
>>
My Microsoft Lumia 640 (5" screen, 120 quid SIM free) has HERE+ as standard which includes live traffic updates, which seem to work fairly well, alongside offline map storage for the whole of the UK (or worldwide if you so desire) Nice easy to use GUI i.e. big virtual buttons.
So for the price of a so-so satnav I have a device that also makes phone calls, browses the web, plays music, takes reasonable photos, runs MSOffice blah blah.
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>> My Microsoft Lumia 640 (5" screen, 120 quid SIM free) has HERE+ as standard which
>> includes live traffic updates, which seem to work fairly well, alongside offline map storage for
>> the whole of the UK (or worldwide if you so desire) Nice easy to use
>> GUI i.e. big virtual buttons.
>>
>> So for the price of a so-so satnav I have a device that also makes
>> phone calls, browses the web, plays music, takes reasonable photos, runs MSOffice blah blah.
Well its nice to know the windows phone has at least one app then.
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>>
>> Well its nice to know the windows phone has at least one app then.
>>
It's not a phone OS for app addicts, that's for sure, but it has what I need and there's no way I could get an equivalent quality Android for 120 quid SIM free.
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>> >> So for the price of a so-so satnav I have a device that also
>> makes
>> >> phone calls, browses the web, plays music, takes reasonable photos, runs MSOffice blah blah.
>>
>> Well its nice to know the windows phone has at least one app then.
>>
I like my Windows Phone. Pretty sure that with the disaster that's Windows 10 on phones it'll be just Android or iPhone this time next year, both of which give me a headache to use.
Just because there aren't 250 million fart apps in the store doesn't mean that there aren't decent apps for Windows Phone - in fact, the ones that are there tend to be of higher quality than equivalent Android or iPhone apps. Except Waze, dammit. But it is owned by Google now.
Most apps in the Windows Store are free, too - unlike iOS where everyone is out to make a quick buck. And you can tell which competitor Google is frightened of, too, because they deliberately block Windows Phone access to their email and calendar services, as well as YouTube.
Finally, Windows Phone is somewhat easier to develop for than either Android or iOS and a Windows 10 app will run faultlessly on any screen size. There's potential, but too little too late IMHO.
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I bought a pogodrive which is a cracking sat nav. It warns you about all speed cameras & accident blackspots. I think you can get them on amazon & ebay. I got mine from www.lmfvauxhall.co.uk. Only took a few days to arrive. It's alot better than my tomtom. I was unsing my galaxy S5 & google maps until the boys in blue gave me a grilling.
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I'd second and third Google maps when you have a data connection. The traffic and ETA info is second to none. Without data, it is pretty useless*. I used it extensively across Europe (mainly Germany) a few weeks back and was really impressed - have also used it in the States. I did have an old Garmin Nuvi 1440 as fallback which was OK but I think if I were thinking of buying a dedicated satnav I would seriously consider putting the £100+ to one side to give myself additional data allowance when required and stick with the Android.
It is also one less thing to lose/get nicked/replace.
*Maybe a separate thread required, but the best I managed without a data connection was 1) to save a limited amount of data around the destination, but no directional capability and 2) getting the route while on WiFi and not turning off the phone, closing Maps or deviating far from the route. But obviously no traffic info. If anyone can do better please let me know... (I used NAVMii too but that wasn't so successful despite being touted as offline navigation - main fault being it was unable to find addresses. I ditched Waze a couple of months ago).
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>> in short, you can't rely on it when you really need it. you can with
>> a dedicated unit.
I've never owned a sat nav but have recently installed the Here Drive app on my smart phone. This worked very well indeed on a 400 mile round trip a few weeks back. The screen was far too small to be of any use, but what you haven't had you don't miss.
Does anyone hereabouts have experience of Live sat navs?
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>> In the dales, a: I ran out of data allowance and had to pay for
>> a data boost, and b: I ran out of 4g/3g signal and ran out of
>> directions
>>
>> in short, you can't rely on it when you really need it. you can with
>> a dedicated unit.
>>
I only use mine for driving into cities, so loss of signal isn't too big a deal for me. And I've only seen a 3G signal a handful of times in the 6 months I've had the phone but what I do get is perfectly adequate. Good old fashioned road maps normally suffice out of town.
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Garmin nuvi 2589LM 5" Sat Nav with UK, Ireland & Full Europe Lifetime Maps & Traffic Updates - target price about 120 quid.
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Gave my ageing Garmin (7/8 years) to someone last week - did the deed BUT it is well out of date but @ £50 or so for a map download it will remain ood.
Do Garmin ( & the others) not realise that for every person willing to cough up their £50 (or more likely Company Expense £50) there are hundreds nigh thousands that would every week give say a £10 note willingly to have update maps.
That said, my son bought a Brand new BMW a few years back, jumped into the car in Liverpool and typed in his AB postcode - Sat Nav still showed his street as being in the middle of the grounds of a Lunatic Asylum - he had lived in that new build house for 5 years.
It used to be cheaper to buy cars down south than in Aberdeen hence the trip to save nigh on £5K!
My in-built SatNav is DVD based and coming up with read errors - I have taken the disk out wiped it and put it back in - should I use a DVD cleaner disk or is that too risky?
Last edited by: Falkirk Bairn on Mon 19 Oct 15 at 08:59
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>> Do Garmin ( & the others) not realise that for every person willing to
>> cough up their £50 (or more likely Company Expense £50) there are hundreds nigh thousands
>> that would every week give say a £10 note willingly to have update maps.
The dedicated sat nav model changed. Before mobile data, it was good business to sell relatively expensive devices and (comparatively) expensive update/additional maps and subscription online services (traffic)
When mobile data came along, (google maps) that model clearly went out of the window. Now the business model is V cheap devices with limited maps and updates, or middling price devices with free map updates and traffic.
Hence you can now get the garmin I indicated for 120 squids, with free lifetime map updates and free traffic.
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Sygic on my android smartphone. Offline maps (no data connection needed), lifetime updates, the business. Thirty quid I think it was. Never use google maps.
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Still using the TomTom app on the iPhone, and still more than happy with it. You get free map updates a couple of times a year, and optionally traffic which is uncannily accurate for about £20 a year, which I always sub to.
Bought it for about £40 a few years ago and it's worked flawlessly since.
Did try Google maps a while back but discovered it could not at that time re-route if traffic appeared, just told you there was a problem and let you drive into it, so it was instantly abandoned by me. Have they fixed that now?
Also it couldn't (re)calculate a route if you had no signal - the TomTom may not get traffic if there is no signal (until it returns) but all maps are onboard so you can always use it or plan new routes without data.
Waze, for me anyway, was always utter pants.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 19 Oct 15 at 10:04
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>> Did try Google maps a while back but discovered it could not at that time
>> re-route if traffic appeared, just told you there was a problem and let you drive
>> into it, so it was instantly abandoned by me. Have they fixed that now?
Yes. Big time. The redirect on Google is now superb.
>>
>> Also it couldn't (re)calculate a route if you had no signal
Still its biggest failing. Tweaking the way it caches tiles might eliminate a lot of that
>> Waze, for me anyway, was always utter pants.
And me, it tries to do too many things and subsequently fails at most of them
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Waze works well here. But it is extensively used so I guess the feedback must be better.
But what does it do beyond navigating with traffic?
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>> Waze works well here. But it is extensively used so I guess the feedback must
>> be better.
>>
>> But what does it do beyond navigating with traffic?
Trying to tell me everything that is going on around me, from where to get a bunch of grapes to a cup of coffee.
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Does it? I don't think I've ever had that. Nor would I want it.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 19 Oct 15 at 11:09
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When I was a Waze editor (using primitive tools that appeared to be running on a PDP-8) it had all sorts of weirdnesses, some of which may still be there for all I know. Such as Pacman style "goodies" appearing on the map and you got "points" if you drove over them. That was a way of encouraging you to drive a new road, so they could map it. Also all that doodah with "ooh, there's another Wazer on the other side of the road and she's got a smiley mood icon, lets change yours to grumpy" nonsense.
Then, as Zero says, it got all commercial and plastered the map with adverts.
It also had a lot of problems with explaining how it works to users. It would ALWAYS try to take you the "best" route according to traffic density at that exact moment. That's not like a standard satnav where it says "this is the usual way but there's traffic so would you like a reroute". It just would reroute automatically all the time at every junction as it thought fit.
So people were forever saying "it's mad, it takes me on a different bonkers route every night" without grasping that was because at that precise moment Waze thought it was quicker to nip down two sideroads and a layby.
Add in that it only got that traffic info from other Wazers, of which there were about six, it would then take you bang into traffic anyway.
Goodness knows whether it's better off for being part of Google. I imagine so, but I have no incentive to try it again.
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Didn't know any of that, but still it takes me where I want to go without difficulty, and I haven't seen all the other stuff so it works for me.
Just switched it on to see and it says "There are 14,327 wazers nearby" so I guess that'd make a difference.
I like it because it is very quick and easy to use. I find most of the others quite cumbersome.
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Halfords had a TomTom offer last week, cant remember the model , but for £90 you got UK & Western Europe with lifetime free map updates. Not sure if it did traffic as well.
The satnav in my Hyundai has traffic on it so will warn you if there is congestion en route. However the maps were already out of date in 2013 when I bought the car and map upgrades are £120 for 3 so I tend to use my phone more than the car sat nav.
Didn't know you could get the TomTom for an iphone - price seems reasonable .
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Adding to my post @ 9.29. The Here Drive app is free.
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I use Nokia Here Drive and Maps.me
The HERE drive is good for turn by turn direction.
Maps.me is good for exploring an area. It doesn't offer voice guidance. But good for as a pedestrian map when visiting new country.
Both apps cover nearly entire world and you can download offline maps (if your device has enough storage).
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>> I use Nokia Here Drive
Being pedantic (it's my turn I think) but Nokia sold their mapping business to Audi, BMW and Daimler. They sold it for $3bn. They bought Navteq in 2008 for about $8bn.... I wonder if they regretted the decision to buy it? TomTom bought Teleatlas around the same time.... for $2bn.
It's probably a good revenue stream but they must have written off more than $6bn. They also bought other companies that became part of HERE.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 19 Oct 15 at 13:55
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I use the car's own most of the time, but if I expect trouble or happen upon it I fire up Waze.
A new version came out a few days ago. I have only used it for a month and haven't had the problems with any adverts or messages about moods. It did have a pacman type feature at first but I must have turned it off in settings or they got rid of it. It has done some really good reroutes recently when the M1 was closed due to 87 year old driving the wrong way and hitting that van.
You CAN use google maps offline.
To do this, you have to zoom the map to include the area you want to cache.
Type in the address field:
ok maps
and press enter
Click the download button
Name the map e.g. Pennines
OK
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I'm going to try Waze again tonight on my commute for the heck, and I like the Google maps offline idea, so shall try that too.
Incidentally, I note that iphone TomTom UK and Europe is (only) £30 in the app store at the minute, so it seems to have got cheaper. I also note some reviews saying it's carked on later phones than I have.
It's funny how you get used to a solution though - the Volvo has a funky satnav you can talk to set addresses, is a huge screen with clear maps, all built in ready to rock and roll and I almost never use it simply because I'm a creature of habit now used to using the phone instead. Although the traffic on the car one is just TMC so limited really to trunk roads and motorways, which is a big disadvantage.
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>>
>> It's probably a good revenue stream but they must have written off more than $6bn.
>> They also bought other companies that became part of HERE.
>>
Presumably the original (2008) business plan was to charge money for the navigation (not unreasonable given that people were paying good money for Satnavs) - but Google torpedoed that plan by offering navigation for free from 2009.
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I don't think you can beat a good road atlas and a basic satnav for the detailed stuff which is usually in cities where stuff does not move much. Combined with with some planning it works for me. I don't have to worry about traffic I don't often see any and am not on a tight schedule.
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>>and am not on a tight schedule
And that is the absolute answer to peaceful and calm motoring; Traffic is mostly frustrating when one is on a schedule.
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I use Google maps. But not in satnav mode. I cannot bear not knowing where I am or where I am going; satnav gives you 200 yards' information only; you don't get any sort of big picture. The sat nav mode is great for complex junctions, but otherwise, no thanks.
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Just put your fingers on the screen and pull them together for a wider view with sat nav.....easy!
Pat
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>> I use Google maps. But not in satnav mode. I cannot bear not knowing where
>> I am or where I am going
Place names and road signs are a pretty good clue I have found, try them.
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Agree one of the budget Garmins around £80-£120 with lifetime maps and perhaps traffic if you must are all you need.
Aldi are doing an offer this Thurs with one that looks very good value at under £90...
www.aldi.co.uk/en/specialbuys/thu-22-oct/product-detail/ps/p/full-eu-sat-nav/
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The nearest spec Garmin I can find is the Nuvi 2597 LMT. Usually £120 / £130.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 20 Oct 15 at 19:47
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>> Agree one of the budget Garmins around £80-£120 with lifetime maps and perhaps traffic if
>> you must are all you need.
We've got a Gramin nuvi 42 with lifetime UK/Irl maps, currently £73 on Amazon:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00IXR7CEY
However... it does send us down farm tracks occasionally; can't find anything in the settings to adjust that might prevent this.
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One of the many route planning options in my TomTom is "Avoid unpaved roads".
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I'm hoping I haven't missed something as obvious as that... but will have another look :)
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Trying to get to a town in Tuscany, my old TT720 wouldn't/couldn't plot a route. The villa we were staying at was on a bit of a rough road so I turned off the avoid unpaved routes and it worked.
Routing decisions were a bit 'different' and it tried to take me down roads on the way that were best avoided. It was only later I realised why it would not plot a route. The centre of the town was pedestrianised :-)
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I don't think Garmins have that option, mine doesn't. It's not unpaved roads that are the usual problem though, its typically a paved road, barely the width of the car, grass growing out of it, full of potholes and a ford across a raging torrent.
I find my Garmin is particularly prone to this behaviour if you miss your turning and it tries to find an alternative route. It's although the wretched thing will lose face if it has to utter the words "make a U turn" and is determined to find an alternative at all costs
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My TT720 favours the U turn but will reroute if there is something available. It does pay to remember that it is only an aid to navigation and it is best not to believe it without question.
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The in-built sat nav on my LEC doesn't like going through Bushy Park (one of the London Royal Parks) and is constantly telling me to turn round, right up to the point when I get to the far gate.
The road is shut at night, perhaps that is what it is thinking? In my yoof it used to be open all night. I am sure I have told the story of rescuing a couple who had driven their car into the Diana fountain about 1 in the morning (Completely Brahmsed!). I went back later to retrieve the car. I had to borrow a boat from the parks Police to get a rope on the bumper to pull it out with the breakdown truck.
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>> My TT720 favours the U turn but will reroute if there is something available. It
>> does pay to remember that it is only an aid to navigation and it is
>> best not to believe it without question
What disobeying that sultry but demanding lady with the merest hint of a lisp that inhabits my Garmin? She might never speak to me again.
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>> What disobeying that sultry but demanding lady with the merest hint of a lisp that
>> inhabits my Garmin? She might never speak to me again.
>>
It would be nice if ignoring my resident female would shut her up, at least you can switch off a satnav voice. :-)
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Big words. How is the OC?
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The ALDI satnav is a Garmin Nuvi 2597 LM.
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>> The ALDI satnav is a Garmin Nuvi 2597 LM.
Really? I bought the 2597LMT (lifetime maps and traffic) last December for the boss. Still on Amazon at £108. It's good. Much faster at searching POIs unlike the previous generation I have which is painfully slow. Also quicker at startup and recalculating.
I assume the Aldi one has lifetime maps then?
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 20 Nov 15 at 11:03
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Just a warning; lifetime maps are for the supported life of the product, not the physical life of the product!
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I bought a Tom Tom 700 about 11 years ago I think. Still have it and still use it occasionally although it mainly only gets used abroad now in hire cars. Quite heavy and looks very dated with a casing like an old cathode ray tv. However, while the maps are of course out of date ( I never got around to updating them ) it's fine really for helping to find new destinations. Combining it's info with good old fashioned maps and following road signs I've never felt compromised by its limitations.
The built in system in the Merc is a completely different animal of course. It's clever enough to 'see' problems ahead and make re-route suggestions etc.
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google maps now has the facility to download offline maps.
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Unless it's changed recently (i.e. since Oct when I was in Germany) although you can download routes for offline use, it wasn't very good if you deviated from the planned route. There are better products for offline usage.
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>> Unless it's changed recently (i.e. since Oct when I was in Germany)
It has, new version released this month.
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That's the same as I was using. It's primarily for offline maps of an area rather than navigation. Unless I was doing it wrong... which is possible.
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>> That's the same as I was using. It's primarily for offline maps of an area
>> rather than navigation. Unless I was doing it wrong... which is possible.
So what is the difference between "offline maps" and "off line navigation"? All you need is the map and the GPS!
And its not the same as you were using, it wasn't available in October.
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What I used on Germany used the identical method and looks the same as your article describes. I still have offline maps from my German trip. I took them because a web page said it was available, so maybe it was a beta version - but I can see that they've released a new version on 10 Nov which seems to do the offline stuff better. The ones I had were OK for "local" navigation but I couldn't save a large enough area for a 100 mile journey - so you had to get yourself to the general area you'd saved then you could navigate.
By way of trying out the new version I just downloaded a fairly sizable area (Berkshire across to Gloucestershire) and it took 957 mb. I did seem to be able to navigate OK though. However by comparison the whole UK & ROI map in NavMii is only 622 mb and in Here is only 693. So Google have a bit of work still to do. Both Here and NavMii do all the traffic stuff when online.
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You've been able to download areas for offline use in Google maps for ages. But now you can do offline navigation and search for details on businesses etc. Whatever you tried in Germany was before Google updated the mapping application on Android.
When you search for an somewhere now, pressing on the icon of three vertical dots lets you download an area. There is then an 'Offline areas' sub-section to the menu to manage these offline maps. Note the maps expire after 29 days.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 22 Nov 15 at 19:24
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>> By way of trying out the new version I just downloaded a fairly sizable area (Berkshire across
>> to Gloucestershire) and it took 957 mb.
It is downloading the data held by Google for the area. So would include the ability to search for businesses, etc. It's not just map data that's downloaded.
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Sat nav latest thinking - Mike H
