Motoring Discussion > Porsche - Where there's "blame"..
Thread Author: R.P. Replies: 25
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 Tue 29 Sep 15 08:16 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - R.P.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34387471
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 Tue 29 Sep 15 08:36 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - sherlock47
Complete the sentence

Where there's "blame"..


There is money for lawyers?
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 Tue 29 Sep 15 09:18 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Duncan
>> Complete the sentence
>>
>> Where there's "blame"..
>>

Where there's blame ......

There can be blame reversal!
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 Tue 29 Sep 15 09:25 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Westpig
A sad fact of human life...when there's a tragedy "who do you blame", usually outside of the family/friends circle.
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 Tue 29 Sep 15 22:18 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Bobby
>>the document claims the car lacked "features that could have prevented the accident or, at a minimum, allowed Paul Walker to survive the crash".

You mean like a brake pedal and speedometer??

Don't ya just love the yanks......
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 Tue 29 Sep 15 22:24 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Zero
>> >>the document claims the car lacked "features that could have prevented the accident

The driver was missing the brain feature
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 22:24
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 Sat 3 Oct 15 07:48 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Ian (Cape Town)
"lacked "features that could have prevented the accident"
Absolutely. It lacked all the nanny-devices. An absolute beast of a vehicle, and one which needs absolute concentration to drive. I drove one once at the local track, and it is awesomely quick, and beyond my limitations as a driver.
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 Sat 3 Oct 15 08:58 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Slidingpillar
A few years ago, I saw a Porsche that had hit a telegraph pole, owned by the son of the owner of the garage I saw it at. In terms of passenger protection it had done well and the passenger compartment was pretty good. Externally though there wasn't a straight panel on it, and the whole car was visibly warped.

Garage owner said his son had only been doing 40 but it was wet and the car had wide tyres, hence the accident.

At the time I thought 'rubbish' and still do. If you closed the road, if I could not do double the speed in the wet, I'd say there was something wrong!

There is nothing new in relatives of accident victims saying they were only doing X mph where in reality, 2X or more!
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 Tue 17 Nov 15 13:25 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - VxFan
Porsche says Fast and Furious actor Paul Walker was responsible for his own death in a high-speed crash of a 2005 Carrera GT.

The star of the high-action Fast and Furious movies was "a knowledgeable and sophisticated user of the 2005 Carrera GT", Porsche said.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34832124
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 Tue 17 Nov 15 23:17 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - No FM2R
I thought I heard somewhere the the Porsche had been modified. How true or how much, I don't know.
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 04:53 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Ian (Cape Town)
FM2R, one wonders how much one can alter it... and why one would wish to - it is a beast straight out of the box, effectively a roadlegal racecar.
Now, I'm no expert, but I reckon that if the Porsche racing engineers have built it, there's very little alteration one can do to make it better/faster.

In addition " further investigation revealed that the speed of the car was the main reason for the crash. The car was said to be traveling between 80 miles per hour (130 km/h) and 93 miles per hour (150 km/h), and had nine-year-old tires that were seldom driven on."
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 09:27 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Slidingpillar
Article doesn't justify the remarks one way or the other. Old(ish) tyres may just be a convenient scapegoat although they will have less grip, no evidence of a casing fault or blowout has been given I think.

But there certainly is a culture in the USA of modifying cars to the sorts of BHP that would not embarrass a train.

Unless someone without an axe to grind reports on the true state of the car - doubt we'll ever know the real truth.
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 12:45 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - TheManWithNoName
I reckon he was overcome by fumes caused by high emissions.
It's a conspiracy dontchaknow!
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 15:55 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - No FM2R
Ian...

A scan/fax of Porsche's legal filing...

pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/porsche-paul-walker-death-response-wm.pdf

Where the relevant parts are....

Eighth Affirmative Defence

10. The subject 2005 Carrera GT was abused and altered after being placed into the stream of commerce in a manner that was not reasonably foreseeable to PCNA. That abuse and alteration proximately caused or contributed to the incident......."
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 18 Nov 15 at 15:56
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 Thu 19 Nov 15 05:11 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Ian (Cape Town)
Thanks for that - most illuminating!

especially the 'knowledgeable and sophisticated' user.
Seems the driver wasn't, though...
Last edited by: Ian (Cape Town) on Thu 19 Nov 15 at 05:16
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 15:46 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Armel Coussine
>> Porsche says Fast and Furious actor Paul Walker was responsible for his own death in a high-speed crash of a 2005 Carrera GT.

The driver was responsible it seems, although it isn't clear what happened. The Carrera GT is a very capable rear-engined sports car requiring restraint and a certain delicacy from the driver, even one who is thoroughly familiar with the car and its ways.

Not designed to climb trees or banks or have its neck wrung by amateurs. I'd love to try one but I'd be a bit scared of it.
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 15:58 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Slidingpillar
I'd love to try one but I'd be a bit scared of it.

Almost ditto, but respectful would be my word. Somebody crashed a Lambo in this country they were picking up for a motoring programme. Fool gave it much throttle as they pulled out of a multistory car park.
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 18:26 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Armel Coussine
>> crashed a Lambo in this country they were picking up for a motoring programme. Fool gave it much throttle as they pulled out of a multistory car park.

Heh heh... very long throttle movement, slight delay in power delivery, up a tree before you can say oh f***!

Idle is the best crankshaft speed for supercars in cities, and sod the clutch. Even stroking the loud pedal can lead to trouble. I've seen people do it. Of course you can't see out of the things either. You ought to be in a Cayenne or Range Rover, prat.


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 Wed 18 Nov 15 18:57 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Slidingpillar
Heh heh... very long throttle movement, slight delay in power delivery, up a tree before you can say oh f***!

Shouldn't be any delay unless you have the engine off cam - racing engines can be interesting on the road. Most fun I've had in a city was when I was one of two drivers taking an ex-technical vehicle to auction. A very stripped out Range Rover. Standard engine, but apart from the drivers seat, no internal trim at all. Thing was very light and was a hoot to drive.

I tended to get the driving jobs in my last employment, I was known as a bit of a petrol head and was happy to work weekends for days off in the week. The technical vehicle we sold complete was taken two days before by yours truly to the delivery of the last proper Range Rover at Gaydon. Stood out in the car park - I put the 30 foot mast up!
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 19:11 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - VxFan
>> Porsche says Fast and Furious actor Paul Walker was responsible for his own death in
>> a high-speed crash of a 2005 Carrera GT.
>> The star of the high-action Fast and Furious movies was "a knowledgeable and
>> sophisticated user of the 2005 Carrera GT", Porsche said.

Just re-reading what I wrote yesterday (which was a copy/paste job from the Beeb website), Paul wasn't actually driving the car, he was a passenger. His friend (Roger Rodas) was at the wheel.

So then Porsche, how can Paul be responsible for his own death if he wasn't driving?

You've previously said it was Roger Rodas that was responsible.

www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/porsche-blames-driver-fatal-paul-walker-car-crash-article-1.2169715

"The automaker's attorneys denied there were defects in the car, and said they believed the vehicle was "abused and altered" after being purchased in a way the company could not have foreseen and that could have been a factor in the accident. Authorities ruled the crash was caused by excessive speed and not a mechanical failure."

Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 18 Nov 15 at 19:12
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 19:47 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Kevin
>So then Porsche, how can Paul be responsible for his own death if he wasn't driving?

Pretty much a standard legal response to an initial complaint. They have to respond in a very general manner or they risk losing the opportunity to respond at all. Once the complaint and a response has been served they can take their time making amendments. American judges allow the parties to fine tune their arguments and re-submit many times before they lose patience.

The interesting bits will come after discovery and expert witness statements, if it ever gets that far.

Stuff like this can drag on for years though if the plaintiff can afford it.

I'm still involved with a lawsuit that has been dragging on since 2003 when my previous employer was sued over code contributions to Linux.
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 19:51 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Zero
>> I'm still involved with a lawsuit that has been dragging on since 2003 when my
>> previous employer was sued over code contributions to Linux.

And Sco have just stepped up to the plate again for another crack despite being slapped back down three times previously.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 18 Nov 15 at 19:51
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 21:08 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Kevin
>And Sco have just stepped up to the plate again for another crack..

And they're still harping on about Project Monterey which is where I'm involved.

The agreement between Santa Cruz and Blue, to which SCO were not a party, allowed both companies to use code donated to the project. The legal contract also stipulated what would happen if Santa Cruz was taken over.

SCO don't have a chance. Blue has more lawyers than engineers nowadays.
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 20:07 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Manatee
I don't know if you've noticed but it is quite possible to run different defences that are not actually compatible with each other.

E.g. they say in effect, it wasn't our fault at all. Then they say, if it was our fault, it was to a very small degree. They say it was Walker's fault (I guess because he put himself there and was in effect an expert who should have known better if it was dangerous). Then they say if it wasn't his fault it was Rodas's, etc.

There's an old legal chestnut that goes something like "But it's not my fault the window was broken Father. I wasn't there. And if I was there, I didn't kick the football. But if I did kick the football, it didn't hit the window. And if it did hit the window, it wasn't hard enough to break it."
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 Wed 18 Nov 15 20:48 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - Slidingpillar
Sounds like the defence Billy Bunter gives in more than one story where he denies ever being at the scene and goes on to incriminate oneself by revealing things only the victim and perpetrator would know.
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 Sun 14 Feb 16 01:39 
 Porsche - Where there's "blame".. - No FM2R
I was just trying to research how long tyres last for (not how many miles).

Its difficult to get a very good answer, but 5 or 6 years seems to be somewhere lots of people agree on - although I have trouble with my tyres gripping tarmac after 2 - 3years, but that may be the weather here; it was 37 degree yesterday, but 6 months ago the same tyres were up in the Andes at -5.

Anyway, apparently the tyres on the Porsche that Walker died in were 9 years old. Now I wouldn't have thought that was a very good idea in Southern California.
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