Sorry the title is a bit boring, but I couldn't think of anything else with the small space.
www.theengineer.co.uk/more-sectors/rail-and-marine/in-depth/back-on-the-rails/1019734.article
Thankfully I don't think these will show up on the Northern Rail network as the new Franchise states the need to purchase brand new DMUs and they cannot be converted from existing trains.
The idea of these trains is to replace the Pacers, but I have my doubts. I hate the class 142 Pacers with a passion but thankfully very very rarely need to travel on them. I do have real concerns about this D train been used else where in the country through.
They seem to have a limited speed of 60mph, the standard spec ones don't even have toilets and I am not sure how reliable Ford transit engines will be in a train. This train would be great for localised isolated railway networks (Parr to Newquay for example) but I would hate to see them been used on the mainline any where near major cities.
The concept is quite good though, use the motors and boogies of old tube trains, and just stick in engine in each carriage to generate the electricity. Pretty much how most DMUs work anyway.
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There was some press stuff that they were to be used on the north Wales line. That's the crap Wales Government for you. I've never voted Tory in my life, but I sincerely hope that this bunch of useless wallies get a kicking by them in the 2016 elections. Nationally Corbyn has said he admires the way that the Wales Government runs the NHS. Be very afraid in England if that's true.
www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/old-unsafe-tube-trains-could-9335349
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 19 Sep 15 at 12:57
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>>>>
>> www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/old-unsafe-tube-trains-could-9335349
>>
There is a quote at the end of that article stating that "Tube trains have been designed for a specific purpose - to run underground". Much or even most of the London Underground runs above ground.
I believe the Isle of Wight has been using old tube trains for decades.
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>> I believe the Isle of Wight has been using old tube trains for decades.
Indeed they have. Old Northern line 1938 stock
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>>
>> >> I believe the Isle of Wight has been using old tube trains for decades.
>>
>> Indeed they have. Old Northern line 1938 stock
>>
The Alderney railway uses ex 1959 tube carriages.
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Just the one r in Par comrade ;-)
Here's a nice little train journey if you're ever passing this way again:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looe_Valley_Line
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last week the Queen opened a new Borders railway - Edin - Galashiels
It was hailed on time & and budget................this is stretching things.
Much of the line is single track instead of dual - limits the carrying capacity & also the number of stops.
Nice new railway - shame about the rolling stock - 30 year old diesels - refurbed they maybe but the were unreliable when new!
the Queen got a Mallard Steam train - posh!!
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>> Here's a nice little train journey if you're ever passing this way again:
>>
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looe_Valley_Line
Only wait for this little beauty to be running
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYKUnEZqsI0
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>>Only wait for this little beauty to be running
>>www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYKUnEZqsI0
What an unusual steam train, 107 years old I see. I hope it's going to run again.
www.heritagerailway.co.uk/news/tickets-now-selling-for-steam-railmotor-main-line-jaunts
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It is the same here, much fuss has been made about the electrification of a lot of the Northern lines, but the rolling stock used on them are mainly class 319s which are 30 years old. Our newer 323s are been sent down South. The entire thing is a farse.
That Borders railway deserved to have brand new rolling stock. While billions are been spent in the south east the rest of the country suffers. I am very proud of the Manchester Metrolink system, over 90 stations and 120 trams (by 2017) but it has all been paid by Manchester with no subsidies from the government, this makes it the most expensive light railway system I have ever used any where in the world.
I think it is time TOCs were allowed own rolling stock directly this would end the farce of the banks leasing clapped out trains worth just scrap value for a small fortune.
The French railways have a lot of problems as I found out, but the customer service was very good and it is far cheaper £1 per mile than the UK railways. Interesting France is cheaper than Spain in this regard, but I am going off topic now!
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Rattle:"I do have real concerns about this D train been used else where in the country through.
They seem to have a limited speed of 60mph, the standard spec ones don't even have toilets"
Two good points. But try reading the article and you will find they have been fixed:
Toilets:
"Carriages will be connected by proper gangways and a variety of interior configurations, from a mildly modified version of the existing furnishings, to new internal architecture and toilets, are being designed"
Journey times:
"Some branch lines have 75mph speed limits, but D78s won’t get above 60. Shooter claims a good power to weight ratio (the driving motor cars weigh 28 tonnes, compared to 35-45 for a new diesel equivalent) and better acceleration than, say the Pacers, will even things out and help overall journey times."
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I believe the standard spec ones won't have toilets, I've reads they are an optional extra.
I am just annoyed there is even a market for this. The governments have known for years that the class 142s are in urgent need of replacing yet have done nothing about it.
I think part of the issue is there is not many DMUs been manufactured any more.
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>>I am just annoyed there is even a market for this.
I don't see what your problem is. According to your article there's a need for a train to cover a gap for maybe a decade whilst electrification takes place. Brand new DMUs would have to have a 30 year life. Instead, somebody has proposed using some parts* from some other trains that have a further 15 years of their design life to go.
The article says that toilets and corridors will be fitted. Where else are you getting your information from?
What is there to be annoyed about? I'm always struck by how utterly rubbish the Pacers are; a tube train will be a huge improvement - even without the proposed improvements!
__________________________________
*"some parts' is pretty much all it is as the trains are being completely reconfigured.
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My main issue is they won't be a stop gap measure, the Pacers were supposed to be just that yet 30 years later we are still stuck with them. If you look at the specs here you will see some don't have a toilet.
www.vivarail.co.uk/trains-town-country/
I am not sure of any very short routes. I can think of some that just operate in the PTE area but most routes venture into other counties. The Pacers often end up on the Manchester to Southport route for example.
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>>My main issue is they won't be a stop gap measure
But seemingly ok for the next 15 years or so?
In which case, hardly a problem for today.
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Sorry I meant to say they won't be a stop gap measure. They will still be running by the time they are 50 years old.
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>> Sorry I meant to say they won't be a stop gap measure. They will still
>> be running by the time they are 50 years old.
The HST IC125s are 40 years old.
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I think it was me that wasn't clear.
If they are good for 15 year then surely we don't need to worry about how long they will use them now. 10 years from now might be a better time.
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The HSTs were a wonderful design though, I still love travelling on those MK3 carriages although been on the WCL I rarely get to travel in them. I will miss them when they are replaced, but that Hitachi looks like it will be a great train.
I think my point is if these D78 trains are introduced, everything seems to take so long in rail planning that we need to be thinking about the replacements as they are introduced.
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>>The Pacers often end up on the Manchester to Southport route for example.>>
These trains are hated by passengers with a passion you would not believe and rightly so...:-)
Latest information:
"All 94 Class 142s will be withdrawn by the end of 2020, as their owner, Angel Trains, does not plan to have them extensively refurbished to comply with the Persons of Reduced Mobility Technical Specification for Interoperability (PRM-TSI).
"Bidders for the next Northern Rail franchise must order at least 120 new self-powered vehicles and are permitted to take on Sprinters and Turbostars released by other franchises as replacement."
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I think it also said "cannot be rebuilt from existing rolling stock". They have to be brand new, so the D78 cannot be used on the Northern franchise.
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October's Modern Railways mag should include an appraisal of the Class 230 as the D78 stock conversion will be called. Current schedule is for it to be tested next year on the Plymouth to Gunnislake branch.
Might take a ride if I'm down there visiting Miss B.
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>> Might take a ride if I'm down there visiting Miss B.
I though i was some kind of train freak, but you are a sicko.
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>> I though i was some kind of train freak, but you are a sicko.
I copped a ride on the BR Class 210 prototype DEMU c1981 when it turned up at Preston to convey me to a day's work clerking tribunal hearings in Blackburn. IIRC the D78 derivative is the only subsequent UK attempt at a suburban DEMU.
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>>If you look at the specs here you will see some don't have a toilet.
No I won't. There is one loo in a three-carriage multiple unit.
Anyway, for the sad:
www.facebook.com/PacerPreservationSociety
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>> What is there to be annoyed about? I'm always struck by how utterly rubbish the
>> Pacers are; a tube train will be a huge improvement - even without the proposed
>> improvements!
>>
I like Pacers, I like the build up of revs as they set off, I like the thud of the transmission, I like the smoke and the "farting" from the exhausts, I like the squealing of the bogies I like waiting until they set off again after alighting.
I will miss Pacers.
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>> I am just annoyed there is even a market for this. The governments have known
>> for years that the class 142s are in urgent need of replacing yet have done
>> nothing about it.
>>
>> I think part of the issue is there is not many DMUs been manufactured any
>> more.
>>
Now I'm not perhaps as well informed as I should be about the ins and outs of the railway infrastructure. But I thought that the choice of trains was ultimately down to the TOCs, who on the whole lease them from suppliers/manufacturers. So why is is the governements responsibility to do anything about it? Indeed, given its not in their control what could they have done?
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>> Now I'm not perhaps as well informed as I should be about the ins and
>> outs of the railway infrastructure. But I thought that the choice of trains was ultimately
>> down to the TOCs, who on the whole lease them from suppliers/manufacturers. So why is
>> is the governements responsibility to do anything about it? Indeed, given its not in their
>> control what could they have done?
The Gov issues the area franchises. They set what services have to be run as a minimum, pricing structure, and minimum standard of rolling stock and facilities. (i.e. gov banned slam door stock on safety grounds, and set standards for disabled accessibility)
Franchisee TOC wins based on price, additional services they plan to offer, and upgrades they plan to roll out. So on shortish routes, with poor utilisation and or growth potential (but mandated must run services) you end up with the crapest stock allowed
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 21 Sep 15 at 20:49
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This old girl is running regular passenger services from Carlisle to Barrow on the Furness line, complete with the old corridor carriages!
class 37 diesel "Mary Queen of scots" (Deltic lookalike).
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Old tube trains been converted for mainline use - R.P.
