I might get there eventually...
Current laptop, an aged Samsung NC10 running XP. It has Open Office installed, including Gimp the photo editor. Oh, and Spotify. So that's what the computer does - plus obviously some internet.
It needs a new OS and a new battery, which seems like a lot to spend on something so ancient. So; what to do.
I don't need to do anything clever; no photo editing; no handling huge quantities of data; no gaming. The NC10 was purchased to provide portable internet - with a dongle - but obviously it has now been rendered unnecessary by the iPhone.
It wants to be lightweight and portable - I won't take it many places, but there's no point in it not being. Equally, it wants to be a bit bigger than the 10" of the NC10. Some time spent in John Lewis showed a bewildering array of nice thin laptops. I saw Zero recommending the Asus T100 Chi the other week. Which is basically a pad with a keyboard. Which made me wonder whether what I should actually do is to buy a keyboard for my Chi-Pad.
Budget: not too much; you all know I hate spending money on consumables!
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Not a recommendation
BUT
Cheap and at 11.6" it is bigger than the Samsung
tinyurl.com/qjoyjny
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Really nobody has any thoughts?!
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>> Really nobody has any thoughts?!
You don't like my thoughts.
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>>You don't like my thoughts.
I bought my iPhone because you told me to...
Which is going to lead to a thread something like "6S or something different?"
In favour: consistency.
Against: too big. And also, £550 is a lot to spend on a new phone.
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>> >>You don't like my thoughts.
>>
>> I bought my iPhone because you told me to...
my thought is that a mac book air is what you need. You don't like it, and you don't like what it costs.
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I've got to buy my lad his first laptop this week - I'm just getting him the cheapest one at John Lewis regardless (£179.99) , on the basis of, well, it's just a computer for light use.
Can't really see a flaw in the strategy and I don't think it's worth spending any more time than that worrying about it for the type of use you're wanting either.
My Mum was in a similar situation to you last year, and she went for an iPad with keyboard. Suits her fine but the cost? I'd have just bought a cheap laptop.
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>> I've got to buy my lad his first laptop this week - I'm just getting
>> him the cheapest one at John Lewis regardless (£179.99) , on the basis of, well,
>> it's just a computer for light use.
>>
>> Can't really see a flaw in the strategy and I don't think it's worth spending
>> any more time than that worrying about it for the type of use you're wanting
>> either.
>>
I think that's a fair strategy these days, unless you're intending to model the global climate system or compete with Pixar then pretty much any PC is likely to be able to do the job. Spending more might get you better battery life or a more robust product, but even that's not a given.
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Al - A fine strategy, I'd say.
MM - I guess I don't really know what you want the laptop for. It is just mobile internet then that's really the world of phones and tablets.
If you consider buying a keyboard for a tablet, then I'd wonder what you're doing that needs a keyboard, because that might justify a laptop.
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Thank you.
>> I guess I don't really know what you want the laptop for
Same as the old one which:
"has Open Office installed, including Gimp the photo editor. Oh, and Spotify. So that's what the computer does - plus obviously some internet."
And that's what I want the new one to do. Calc (Open Office Excel), Writer (Open Office Word), Wordpress, Gimp (Open Office Photoshop).
>>If you consider buying a keyboard for a tablet, then I'd wonder what you're doing that needs a keyboard
I have a tablet. Which has a very pretty screen. Probably a bit on the small side really, but then this is to be portable. No point having a lump, as it would never be taken anywhere.
Seeing Zero recommend an Asus transformer for Fenlander's daughter made me think "I'm half way there as I already have a tablet; perhaps an add-on keyboard is the solution.'
I'm thinking a 11.5" Macbook Air (no idea if one exists), but I'm (1) not buying something with an operating system that makes me swear every time I press CTRL + C (2) I'm not spending £1000 on a laptop, particularly see '1'.
I don't need memory; I don't need the ability to play games (and no way do I want a Chrome Book). I do want it to be very portable. 10" is too small.
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>>And that's what I want the new one to do. Calc (Open Office Excel), Writer (Open Office Word), Wordpress, Gimp (Open Office Photoshop).
That's quite a vague description really.
If you are usually reading documents with the occasional bit of minor editing, then a tablet with or without a keyboard will likely be sufficient.
If you are actually studying, creating and/or significantly editing documents, particularly larger ones, then it probably needs to be a laptop.
If you don't want to spend much, and anything Mac falls under the heading of "much" as far as I am concerned, then I'd suggest following Al to John Lewis and buying a laptop.
I wouldn't worry too much about reading the technical specs, they'll all do what you want, just buy one where the size, weight and appearance that suits you.
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Sounds like you need a 11.6" Windows laptop to me. Plenty of them about and some quite cheap. This one at John Lewis for example:
tinyurl.com/pyqn6ez
But it doesn't have much space on the SSD - Windows will take most of that.
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£183, with a 320GB HDD, 11.6" screen. About half the weight of a 15" laptop.
'Slow' processor, but about 3 x faster than your Atom N270.
www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/NX.MRLEK.010-Acer-Aspire-E3-112_1697904.html
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Thanks all.
Job done. Manatee's computer is 50% heavier than rtj's.
I did indeed go to John Lewis an hour ago, and was, in fact, taken by the Asus X205. Upon returning to my desk, there it was, recommended by rtj, so there's now one in the post to me, for a cool £115.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASUS-X205TA-11-6-Notebook-Intel-Atom-2GB-RAM-32GB-SSD-Win-8-1-/351434365390?hash=item51d31ed9ce
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I didn't recommend it as such. I used it as an example of what you can get. For your needs it probably fits the bill and will be faster and better overall than what you currently have. But there's not going to be much free space on a 32GB SSD.
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There'll be plenty of space!
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Use the cloud. You'll get free space with ASUS but also there are any number of providers who offer 2Gb upwards for nought.
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 2 Sep 15 at 16:39
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So it will come with Win 8.1 on it. And it seems that it's sensible to upgrade it to 10 before doing anything (see other thread). Apparently the disc is too small to fit 8.1 and 10 at the same time, so it needs an external drive, of 16GB. I can get my hands on an external hard drive that belongs to an Apple Mac owner. Will that do the trick? Or is it a USB flash drive, £5 from the internet the solution?
Thanks.
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>> an external hard drive that belongs to an Apple Mac owner. Will that do the trick?
I've had trouble with that in the past.
a USB stick is probably the way to go.
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You can download the install file for Windows 10 and run it from another drive, e.g. a USB drive. The size of the installation ISO is about 4GB. You would need the media creation tool to make an installable drive. But a 8GB USB drive would be plenty big enough.
For a clean install of Windows 10, it takes about 10GB of space. It does on a test system I built anyway. So I'd hope there is enough room to upgrade from 8.1 to 10 on this new laptop. You can't have both Windows 8.1 and 10 on it - you need to upgrade to get Windows 10 activated.
Ignore the kind offer of the external drive from a friend. The media creation tool will wipe the contents of the drive to make it bootable so your friend might not be too happy. You can also create a DVD but your probably don't have an external USB DVD writer.
Note, you have to upgrade from Windows 8.1 to 10 to get it activated on Microsoft's activation servers. After that you could do a clean install. You don't get a product key for the free upgrade to Windows 10.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 3 Sep 15 at 18:14
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Rob - are you saying once it's been installed over Windows 7, I could re-use the ISO to do a clean install from scratch? (On the same computer...)
Which product code would I use? The original Windows 7 one?
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>> Rob - are you saying once it's been installed over Windows 7, I could re-use
>> the ISO to do a clean install from scratch? (On the same computer...)
>>
>> Which product code would I use? The original Windows 7 one?
When you upgrade to win 10, your win 10 install has a new product key, but one that you don't know unless you extract it.
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And I don't think that you need to know it.
On a clean windows install from your downloaded ISO, it will access the internet to activate itself.
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>> On a clean windows install from your downloaded ISO, it will access the internet to activate itself.
If you previously upgraded it. Otherwise you'd need the product key. And I suspect it's a Windows 10 product key it needs and not the original Windows 7/8/8.1 one.
I've not installed Windows 10 on my PC yet, just a virtual machine.
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>> And I don't think that you need to know it.
>>
>> On a clean windows install from your downloaded ISO, it will access the internet to
>> activate itself.
using what to ensure its a licensed copy? The downloaded ISO isn't unique is it?
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>> using what to ensure its a licensed copy? The downloaded ISO isn't unique is it?
In some way it must be. Even if its only a serial number or key.
You download an iso. First it must be used to upgrade. Then it can be used to clean install.
I'm sure about that, but I don't know the mechanics.
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Zero -
"Clean install activation
Once your device upgrades to Windows 10 using the free upgrade offer it will activate online automatically. This information will be stored as a record so when you perform subsequent installations, the activation code will be automatically applied, as long as it’s the same computer and the exact same Windows 10 edition. As long as you take advantage of the free upgrade offer time period (1 year from July 29), you will be able to clean install the same edition of Windows 10 that you upgraded to on the same device during and after the free upgrade offer. A new license will not be required for purchase since activation is automatic."
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Also -
Clean installs for hardware changes
If something major happens to the device that requires something as monumental such as a motherboard change (basically turning it into a new computer), Windows 10 will require re-activation – which will require you to purchase a license. This is what Microsoft means when it says "life of the device." Additionally, you can't transfer a license to a new device. But, if something disastrous does happen, it's usually more cost-effective to just buy a replacement device anyway and that should come pre-loaded with Windows 10. However, if you happen to buy a new device with an older OS installed, you can get the free Windows 10 upgrade as long as it falls in the free upgrade offer period.
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>> Zero -
>>
>> "Clean install activation
>>
>> Once your device upgrades to Windows 10 using the free upgrade offer it will activate
>> for purchase since activation is automatic."
I know the blurb from MS but think of this scenario
I have win 7. I upgrade to win 10 - MS server has the config algorithm for my machine and my license key.
I format my disk, I load my win 10 iso which is a non unique ISO correct? All MS now has is a config algorithm - which may not be unique either.......
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 3 Sep 15 at 20:47
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When you installed a non-volume licence copy of Windows you needed a licence key to licence it. The process was something like:
1. Licence key entered
2. MS check licence key (there was a time when they didn't do this centrally and you could make up licence keys).
3. Valid licence key means:
3.1 Licence key encoded and stored in the registry
3.2 MS generate a unique ID for your machine based on things like CPU, motherboard, memory, hard disk, MAC address of network cards.
If you upgraded a PC and too much changed, the ID generated was no longer valid and you'd have to phone up to get it re-licenced.
For the Windows 10 upgrade, it's the unique ID that's being upgraded/created and stored at Microsoft that's changing. The install media is not unique at all. You need a valid licence/UID to activate your copy of Windows 10.
So in the scenario with Windows 7 and later.... format and re-install is okay because MS knows the machine. Replace the motherboard, CPU and say the hard drive and re-install.... and it doesn't work without a call to MS.
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>
>> So in the scenario with Windows 7 and later.... format and re-install is okay because
>> MS knows the machine. Replace the motherboard, CPU and say the hard drive and re-install....
>> and it doesn't work without a call to MS.
Yes thats the way its always worked, but it can only work with a unique machine. What about an install onto a identical machine?
The point is this will only work with a machine that has a new UEFI firmware bios.
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>> Yes thats the way its always worked, but it can only work with a unique machine. What about
>> an install onto a identical machine?
The machine won't really be identical. The CPU will have a different identifier as will the LAN card(s) MAC address for example. Install Windows on two 'identical' machines and the GUID should/would be different.
In corporate environment where machines are 'cloned' they have a key management server (KMS).
I'd hope any current machines have UEFI. My last motherboard from 3 years ago was UEFI. An important factor for me as it means it can run MacOS X.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 3 Sep 15 at 22:34
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>> Rob - are you saying once it's been installed over Windows 7, I could re-use the ISO to do a clean install from scratch?
That's my understanding. Not tried an upgrade let alone a reinstall afterwards. It's on a VM at the moment and I have no time to look at it to form an opinion. I have nearly a year to decide.
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Thank you all.
Somebody has undertaken the process here at the bottom of the thread:
answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/upgrade-icon-not-showing-for-asus-x205ta/e8962fe8-370e-43ea-afd4-7925f91105ad?auth=1
Do you think I can use two USB drives (it has two ports) of 8 GB and 2GB, or do I need to find a bigger one?
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>> Do you think I can use two USB drives (it has two ports) of 8 GB and 2GB, or do I need to find a bigger one?
Not if you want to store 10GB of Win10 OS data on it. That all needs to be put on one storage device, not split between two.
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You will need to upgrade Windows 8.1 to 10. And it will reside on the 32GB SSD drive in the laptop. You can use the 8GB USB stick to write the Windows 10 installation media to and boot from it to do the install.
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>>You can use the 8GB USB stick to write the Windows 10 installation media to and boot from it to do the install.
Do you think it will be big enough? The post at the bottom of the link suggested it wouldn't.
Thanks!
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So by coincidence I've been tinkering and managed to lose my Start menu. I think I could recover it, or go back to an image, but I'm going to take the opportunity to try doing a clean full install from the ISO. If you never see me again you'll know it doesn't work :-)
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Seemed to go OK and Windows 10 is activated, all without me entering any product key. Initially it wouldn't install to C drive as ""The selected disk has an MBR partition table. On EFI systems Windows can only be installed to GPT disks." Format didn't cure this but the new option on the menu did.
it installed a load of updates once install had completed, to be expected.
I now have the mountain of stuff to install, and am struggling at the moment in getting sight of my network drive which has all my software and product codes etc on it... But first I will download Reflect and take an image... :-)
EDIT: btw the clean install came out at a little over 22Gb.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 4 Sep 15 at 12:06
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I checked the machine I installed a clean copy of Windows 10 on and it is using 10.5GB of space. Interesting that your install is double the size.
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Quick analysis shows
Windows folder is 15.7Gb - 6.6 of which is WinSxS and 3.3gb is System32. Then on top of that I have 3.1Gb hiberfil.sys and 1.9Gb pagefile.sys.
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My windows folder is 26.6GB [upgraded, not clean installed].
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 4 Sep 15 at 12:47
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WinSxS can become huge over time. You can now clean it up a bit. I can see benefits but you'd have thought when you apply a service pack, any older fixes should be deletable.
My vanilla clean Win 10 install has not had patches applied. And it does not have hibernate enabled. It will have a small page file.
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I should reinstall, I know I should.
But I am totally wimping out at the thought of dealing with all those programs.
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Hmm I know what you mean, having just spent best part of an hour trying to diagnose and fix the issue I'd already reported the fix for in the earlier part of this thread...
Which was...
If your Outlook stops sending, run Command Prompt as Administrator and then enter the command SFC/scannow. Tnis will repair a couple of files which the upgrade seems to mess up. In Outlook 2013 you can also go File/Options/Add Ins and disable the Exchange add-in.
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I had that Outlook issue, I couldn't be a***d to track it down so now I just run it with Admin facilities which sorts it out.
I have Outlook 2010. Its piddling about a bit so I either need to upgrade to 2013 or I need to investigate alternatives.
Actually, as I am writing this it suddenly occurs to me that I can buy Microsoft software as part of an educational establishment and I gave a presentation on International Relocation for them the other day, so that must mean I'm almost a teacher. I need to research......
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In case anyone is still interested in a keenly priced laptop, this Lenovo i3 model has just gone on offer at £280 from Dabs:
tinyurl.com/or7qguf
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Laptop recommendations - Falkirk Bairn
