goo.gl/maps/Efihj
Take a look at the street view image above. As you approach the roundabout, there are traffic lights. Once on to the roundabout, there is a further set of traffic lights between exit 1 and 2, and three lanes rather than two - 1 and 2 are for exit 1/2, 3 is for exit 3 and 4.
This morning, I needed exit 3. At the first lights, I took the right hand lane, and was next to a Focus in the left lane which was not indicating. As the lights go green, I move off to lane 2 on the roundabout, indicating right for exit 3. Focus guns it and cuts across me in to lane 2. The lights between exits 1 and 2 are always red, so this is quite a sudden thing to do, especially given the short distance involved, and I had to brake sharply. I can understand someone maybe doing that if they wanted exit 2, at least the right lane of exit 2 to avoid the car park and continue on the A4, however this would still be a poor move as it would be best to take the right lane at the first traffic lights before entering the roundabout and aim for lane 2, as I had done.
Anyway, after being cut up Mrs Woman in the Focus glares at me in her door mirror, I just shrug and do the raised hand/WTF are you playing at gesture. She goes absolutely nuts screaming and spitting at the mirror, and I think , well OK, perhaps she's in the right - but then, what does she do when the lights go green but ignore exit 2 and take exit 3, again gunning it like Fangio. I do not want lane 3 on the roundabout as that's only appropriate for those aiming for exit 4.
Any justification for her line here? Is there any way you can justify approaching this roundabout in lane 1, intending to take lane 3? I presume she thought it was fine from her reaction. Or does the panel think I should be taking lane 3 on the roundabout for exit 3? I don't so this as I often find people like Focus lady this morning coming up the inside.
Maybe I should use lane 3. I'll try it tomorrow.
Just interested in opinions, I'd like to know what others think, maybe I'm getting it wrong.
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Exit 3 is the one going down the right side of the IDR?
In which case I would think you were doing the right thing And she is trying to go first as she is very important without regard to correct lane usage.
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Is it something in the air? Saw two similar examples of fangio>weave>brake over tiny distances in Northampton yesterday. One gained 45 seconds albeit at cost of a v. late amber gamble. Other barely a car's length.
And he lost that at lane closure further down where Anglian Water are digging a hole
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Yes, I mean exit 3 to be Mill Lane (no mill and it isn't a lane) going between the IDR flyover and the John Lewis collection centre
What does everyone think about lane selection on the roundabout, coming from my direction for exit 3 - should I am to be in lane 2 or 3 at the lights on the roundabout?
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>> What does everyone think about lane selection on the roundabout, coming from my direction for
>> exit 3 - should I am to be in lane 2 or 3 at the
>> lights on the roundabout?
If there are two lanes at the exit then it doesn't matter.
Otherwise be on the inside line at the exit - i.e. start in lane 2; your corner!
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 25 Aug 15 at 13:57
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She clearly created her own problem and yours by starting from the wrong lane, probably because she thought it would be quicker - were you going with the main flow, so using the left lane allowed her to get past a few cars and nip back in? Normal behaviour for some, who basically depend on everybody else's compliance to avoid hitting anything.
The wronger people are, the angrier they get in my experience. You just have to stay out of their way if you can.
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>> The wronger people are, the angrier they get in my experience.
That's the satisfying thing about other people's anger. It confirms that you are probably right.
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>>That's the satisfying thing about other people's anger
And their horns.
Nobody ever blew their horn because they felt that they had "won".
Although my Grandfather's often shouted cry of "if you've got time to blow your horn then you've got time to brake" always worried me.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 25 Aug 15 at 12:29
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>> She clearly created her own problem and yours by starting from the wrong lane, probably
>> because she thought it would be quicker - were you going with the main flow,
Oddly we were the only two cars on the entry slip to the roundabout.
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If you reach a complex roundabout with no other cars on it, you can take what you deem to be the correct line round it. If there are other vehicles the correct line ceases to matter. You just have to avoid hitting or baulking other cars and damn well get on with it. If they baulk you, you can sigh a bit but tooting, driving aggressively at or in front of them or making gestures out of the window is just immature crap that holds everyone up.
The horn can be used politely as well as aggressively though. A brief tootlet can warn people that you are there if you think you're in their blind spot, and I have often used one as a form of thanks. People usually seem to understand.
As others have said, eye contact is often important and a smile or wave will reward courteous behaviour.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 25 Aug 15 at 13:50
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Thems is London rules, AC.
;-)
I did not open my window - just a shrug and a questioning hand in the air when I saw her scowling at me as if I'd just bitten her puppy's head off. I thought she was having an aneurysm for a moment. As I said I questioned my own position, but when she went for exit 3 I knew she had dropped the spherical object rather than me. But I still wonder if it's best to use the middle lane as I did, and risk nutcases flying up the inside, or take the 3rd lane and risk a middle lane user baulking my route to exit 3 out of spite. It's not the easiest of junctions and people often flap thinking they're going in to the car park by mistake and swerving away at the last moment. Perhaps that final thought is actually the decider and I should use lane 3 in future.
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A busy roundabout should cause a flurry of intellectual and physical activity, turning your head, using all mirrors at all times and being extra alert for stuff coming from all angles.
I'm afraid some drivers, many perhaps, sail into roundabouts still hypnotized by the boredom of just driving along, behaving as if they owned all the road, and become stupidly indignant when they discover there are rivals for ownership. Grown-ups don't engage their emotions beyond gritting their teeth or being pleased.
Any attempt to control other traffic is liable to hold everyone up. Just damn well get on with it.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 25 Aug 15 at 14:09
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Maybe you'd inadvertently taken (what she thought was) her road earlier, at the lane 2 approach to the roundabout. or something had happened even further back along the road which she was "getting her own back" for.
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As you've probably guessed I've used that roundabout a few times. Looking at the road markings (arrows), there isn't one in lane 1 on the roundabout pointing left towards the car park, and I wouldn't be surprised to see someone join the roundabout in the left hand lane and stay there before taking exit 3. Whether that is 'correct' or not, wouldn't like to say. Wouldn't expect them to move into lane 2/3 though, or go all the way in lane 1 to exit 4 (or 5).
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Left lane arrows show left and straight on, yes. But the arrow left is for Bridge Street, not the car park, the straight on arrow is for the car park and the A4. Right lane arrows show straight on and right, i.e. A4 and exits 3 & 4. So I wouldn't expect anyone in the left lane to be going right - i.e. towards exit 3, which is not straight on. Straight on is the car park entrance and the A4.
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>> i.e. towards exit 3, which is not straight on.
I can see why you might think that :)
Looking at the map ie. from above, I think Mrs Focus (no relation) might just about be able to argue that it is straight on, sort of. That is, you go about 180 degrees around the roundabout, and end up going in the same direction.
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Yes, I see what you're saying. I hadn't accounted for someone thinking quite so literally (her, not you). There are 4 options off this roundabout - Bridge St, car park, A4 and Mill Lane (John Lewis side). I'd assumed that people would instinctively realise that the left lane on the entry slip was for options 1 and 2, the right lane for options 3 and 4. I never imagined that someone would think they should use the left lane for options 3 and 4.
Like I said I think I'll take lane 3 on the roundabout from now on to avoid such people in future, but I can't help thinking I used to do that years ago and changed to taking lane 2 on the roundabout because people in lane 3 would cut me up on the way in to Mill Lane (John Lewis side).
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>> I hadn't accounted for someone thinking
She obviously wasn't doing that! :)
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>> Yes, I see what you're saying. I hadn't accounted for someone thinking quite so literally
>>
"Straight on" does have funny interpretations.
The roundabout on the A48 at Crosshands heading for the M4 has three lanes on the approach, and is crying out for the classic interpretation 1 = L, 2 = Straight on, 3 = R.
But each lane on the approach has a straight on arrow on the road. It's only when someone has taken the arrow in lane 1 at face value that he discovers on the roundabout that actually it is a lane for left only.
Again, the roundabout outside Aberystwyth has two approach lanes each with a straight on arrow. But a bit further on there is an island separating them and 1 = left and 2 = right.
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>> The roundabout on the A48 at Crosshands heading for the M4 has three lanes on
>> the approach, and is crying out for the classic interpretation 1 = L, 2 =
>> Straight on, 3 = R.
>> But each lane on the approach has a straight on arrow on the road. It's
>> only when someone has taken the arrow in lane 1 at face value that he
>> discovers on the roundabout that actually it is a lane for left only.
>>
Agreed; but the preceding signs are clear enough. As you're well aware, nobody takes a blind bit of notice of any of the direction signs on Carmarthenshire roundabouts, as evinced by the numerous accidents at Pensarn; one of which involved myself when a car cut across in front of my lorry. Likewise further down the same road as the lemmings crowd into the left lane to go to Haverfordwest, when there are several clear signs showing that both lanes can be used.
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I suppose it's possible smokie. I hadn't clocked her before. Although Focus is a pretty common model, this was an unusual colour - burgundy/maroon, sort of thing I'd have picked up on and noted. I'm pretty sure she just charged down the slip as I was waiting at the lights and went inside me. The way she continued her journey I think she's just impatient and aggressive over all - I followed her to the Whitley Pump (she took the A327, I took the Basingstoke Rd), stopping at a few lights and catching her up. Tore off every time inappropriately.
One of those things. But I was more interested in what people thought of the roundabout at the IDR flyover and lane use there, coming from the west and heading for the 3rd exit as I was, than what silly Focus moo was up to.
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Seems to me that you need to stop needing to be right. It's a tricky roundabout and you should be prepared for anything. You shouldn't be giving her eye contact if you disapprove of what she did and certainly not any kind of gesture. It's part of present day driving and you should try and be relaxed about it. If you can use the term "cut up" you must be regarding the whole thing as some kind of competition.
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Wait until you get the Volvo. It won't matter what lane you're in!
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Are you saying Volvo drivers get cut up more often, WP? I shall look out for that. Is that a commonly held opinion? What is thought to be behind it?
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>> Are you saying Volvo drivers get cut up more often, WP? I shall look out
>> for that. Is that a commonly held opinion? What is thought to be behind it?
>>
Attempt at a joke.... probably showing my age.... left over from the days when Volvo's first had the 'get out of the f'ing way i'm coming through' lights showing constantly, combined with the reputation of robustness.
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John Boy, seems to me you need to read the thread and understand what I've been saying/asking.
I was questioning my own use of the roundabout and will probably use it differently as a result of this discussion. I don't know how you've manged to interpret that as me needing to be right. She made the eye contact, I was reciprocating questioningly.
Sheesh.
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Is there no conversation where you don't bring up the subject of kebabs?
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How embarrassing, being beaten away from the lights by some tart in a focus.
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See if she does the same thing in four weeks time.
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>> Seems to me that you need to stop needing to be right. It's a tricky
>> roundabout and you should be prepared for anything. You shouldn't be giving her eye contact
>> if you disapprove of what she did and certainly not any kind of gesture. It's
>> part of present day driving and you should try and be relaxed about it. If
>> you can use the term "cut up" you must be regarding the whole thing as
>> some kind of competition.
>>
You may need help Sire. Why you no risten?
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It's a year since we left the Reading area for Dorset, and my memory may be wrong - but I thought that exit 3 (Mill Lane) had two lanes until you get near to the traffic lights for the turn up into London Street.
If so, and there are two cars on the roundabout, both should be able to turn into Mill Lane side by side.
I think you were right to be in lane 2, Alanovic - I've been in lane 3 before and had to brake and give way to cars in lanes 1 and 2 who both turned into exit 3.
I don't miss Reading's incompetent traffic system one little bit.
Last edited by: Avant on Tue 25 Aug 15 at 21:58
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>> but I thought that exit 3 (Mill Lane) had two lanes until
>> you get near to the traffic lights for the turn up into London Street.
Good point - yes, if you move forward on streetview you can see that's true; in fact there's a divider between lanes 2/3 so that lanes 1/2 are effectively forced into the 2 lanes of exit 3 (Mill Lane), and only lane 3 can carry on round.
Also, what makes me think that lane 1 between exits 1 (Bridge St) and 2 (car park) is valid for exit 3 (Mill Lane, A's exit) is that the lane markings don't 'move across'. That is, lane 3 doesn't become lane 2 to encourage you to move outwards, as it often(?) does on other roundabouts where that is the intention.
So, assuming you don't take exit 1 (Bridge St), I reckon lane 1 is for exit 2 or 3, ditto lane 2, and lane 3 is only for exit 4 and beyond. Just IMO of course.
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 25 Aug 15 at 22:40
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OFFS, you just straightline it unless other vehicles get in the way.
What a load of faff.
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>>What a load of faff.
Yur, wot are you lot like? talking about driving in a motoring forum? Jeez wot idiots, Just naffin' do it, alright.
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>> wot are you lot like? talking about driving in a motoring forum? Jeez wot idiots,
Talking boringly and repetitively, to little effect.
There's nothing complicated or difficult about damn roundabouts. Mostly wasted breath, tchah!
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About 8 years ago I bought an N reg Defender 90 Tdi from a local school who needed rid because it did not meet insurance criteria for carrying pupils. At the time i worked in Keighley (W Yorks) six days a week, and at least twice weekly drove in Bradford. Seriously, the driving experience changed as far fewer people tried cutting me up in those two towns. It was surprisingly nippy around town, and far more fun there than out on the open road. I only kept it a good 6 months...it was an experience I appreciated, was totally reliable, but was offered £1500 more than I had paid for it and early Sunday drives to the northern Lakes were not enjoyable.
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Ex-military vehicles have the same effect on city drivers. Old friend of mine who lived in London used a serious battered Series Landy with those huge steel bumpers to get around the place; rarely if ever got cut up.
Bears out my long held motorcycling theory that many drivers do see you but simply don't care.
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Agree, the young male idiot drivers in Bradford & Keighley with zero lane discipline certainly kept their distance. Wouldn't want uncalled for go faster stripes on their WRX or Type Rs would they?
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>> Also, what makes me think that lane 1 between exits 1 (Bridge St) and 2
>> (car park) is valid for exit 3 (Mill Lane, A's exit) is that the lane
>> markings don't 'move across'. That is, lane 3 doesn't become lane 2 to encourage you
>> to move outwards, as it often(?) does on other roundabouts where that is the intention.
>>
>> So, assuming you don't take exit 1 (Bridge St), I reckon lane 1 is for
>> exit 2 or 3, ditto lane 2, and lane 3 is only for exit 4
>> and beyond. Just IMO of course.
>>
Not sure I agree Fl, I've been round it again this morning and there isn't an exit 4. Well, it's a no entry one-way street. Then there's just the slip back on to the IDR in the opposite direction, which isn't really something most people would be doing unless they're lost. So I can't see any way that lane 1 on the roundabout is appropriate for exit 3. I think even the woman yesterday morning realised this, hence her sudden move across my path in to lane 2. She should have been in lane to on the entry slip if she wanted exit 3.
So what I have done this morning is to take lane 3 on the roundabout for exit 3. I'll be doing that from now on to mitigate against anyone doing similar to yesterday's incident.
The other things is - how can lane 1 be OK for exit 3, when lane 2 is marked as a correct lane for exit 2? you can't have roads where traffic in lane 1 is supposed to cut across that in lane 2 which is heading for an exit. You'd have constant collisions if that were the case.
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>> I've been round it again this morning
Fair enough - driving it and looking at google maps are different things. Glad you managed not to upset anyone today :)
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There are lots of people who will just join the shortest queue at the roundabout and sort it out from there. Some of those will do it rudely. Often seen at Handy Cross which can be a free-for-all with the added spice of red light runners.
There was always a huge queue at tea time to turn left at the roundabout near the office. I wouldn't cut anybody up or force my way, but sometimes I would scoot down the right hand lane and if I could beat a slow starter off the line, turn left (two lane exit anyway, but possible that the car on my left would be going straight on), or otherwise just do a 270 degree right. I might have annoyed people who had queued for much longer than I had, but I didn't get in their way.
These days I usually follow the logic and take my time, because I have more of it and I am probably less misanthropic generally.
Some people though can't manage that even when it's to their advantage. I regularly turn north onto the A1 from the A421 at the Black Cat roundabout. Very uplifting to pass half a mile of queuing traffic going the same way, and turn left from lane 2 quite legitimately (honest).
goo.gl/5bkI94
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>> There are lots of people who will just join the shortest queue at the roundabout
>> and sort it out from there.
That's a fair point. The "correct" lane is only correct at the point of entry. Once on the roundabout you usually have to change lanes to keep in the new correct one, and meeting vehicles from other entry points doing the same. Arguably it doesn't matter where you have come from, just where you are going.
Like life, I suppose.
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>> goo.gl/5bkI94
>>
Who is it on here that owns a Skoda Roomster? Looks like they need a lesson in lane discipline. Shocking positioning.
;-)
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That does look a lot like our Roomster - a met blue Scout. And it's June 15, so possible. But I would have been in lane 2...and I don't think I have ever seen lane 1 so clear!
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>> Not sure I agree Fl, I've been round it again this morning and there isn't.......
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......where traffic in lane 1 is supposed to cut across that in lane 2 which
>> is heading for an exit. You'd have constant collisions if that were the case.
People in all sorts of activities can be rude, or stupid, or thoughtless.
May I suggest it's time to move on?
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Be my guest. Others may wish to continue to post their experiences of lane discipline/best practice on this motoring forum.
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>> Be my guest. Others may wish to continue to post their experiences of lane discipline/best
>> practice on this motoring forum.
>>
You are, of course, absolutely right.
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>>>People in all sorts of activities can be rude, or stupid, or thoughtless.
Yep it's not about the lane as much as the person.
Today I returned to the car in a full McDonalds car park with my food to eat it in the car while listening to music. Noticed a yellow hatchback just behind my car blocking anyone from driving round the car park.
As I unwrapped my burger in the mirror I could see a queue growing out onto the road behind the yellow hatchback. Next thing there is an aggressive rapping on my window and there's this cobby mid 30s woman staring in with a face like thunder.
Opened the door a crack and she "spits" out "aren't you going to go then"... I replied I was fine eating my meal thanks and closed the door. She returned to her car and just sat there... after a few more minutes with growing gridlock a member of staff told her she could park in a vacant "waiting for your order bay".
As I said... it's rarely about the specific event... it's the person.
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Last edited by: Zero on Wed 26 Aug 15 at 15:49
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>> Opened the door a crack and she "spits" out "aren't you going to go then"...
"Madam, I am allowed an hour here, and I shall now be using every minute of it - good day"
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 26 Aug 15 at 15:49
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"Madam, I am allowed an hour here, and I shall now be using every minute of it - good day"
Indeed, any thoughts of charitableness are extinguished. Bet she is continually meeting unhelpful people and thinks the world is out to get her (clue madam, it is!).
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>>>Indeed, any thoughts of charitableness are extinguished
Indeed... I'm very good natured when in any public interaction... but if they dump on you first the rules change.
As a matter of interest I always press the c/lock button when sitting in the car eating/reading/waiting etc.
I didn't elec the window down as it would have given her a clear path for a grab or punch... she really looked that cross and quite handy too.
I tell my daughters now they are both out and about in their own cars not to be scared of life... but nothing wrong in being prepared.
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I eased into an outward-facing downhill fast-getaway parker in the local supermarket place once. A woman I hadn't really noticed suddenly turned nose-to nose with my car, got out and shouted angrily at me: 'Back up! Back up!' There were literally hundreds of empty parkers all around, but she wanted mine.
Offended by her rudeness I got out equally rudely and walked off muttering something graceless but not audibly profane. She was in the way of other cars by then and they started to hoot.
Although I was certainly in the right and the woman was stupid, rude and a singularly talentless pilot, it gave me no pleasure to have won the encounter. Made me feel a bit scurvy and right wing.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 4 Sep 15 at 18:39
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Lane discipline - help me out here - No FM2R
