Hi all
I keep attracting road rage at a particular junction & thought for fun I'd see what you guys would do (or do if you know the High Wycombe M40/J4 roundabout).
I looked at Google Maps to try and show the problem from above but alas it was done before remodelling the roundabout, however they have since done a Streetview that shows exactly my problem.
The roundabout consists of three lanes, the outside two are for the A404 only and the third (inner) is also for the A404 but also takes the rest of the traffic to the other exits around the er bout! I intend to come off at the exit immediately after the A404 so stay on the inner lane almost until it looks like I'm going straight on but then turn to stay on the r/bout in what will now be the outside lane. It's a bit bizarre I know but that's how it's road marked up.
What's happening is some people in the middle lane use that to turn into the same lane as me and horns blast and profanities shouted. Yesterday a lovely looking 30something lady with kids gave me an amazing display of hand signals all the way down to Marlow Bottom.
Have a look here: tinyurl.com/2vtm6cs
Now watch the silver Audi as you move forward. The cars cover the road markings in the first two lanes but they both say A404 MARLOW then AHEAD ONLY, the Google car is in the lane I am in.
Now it doesn't matter too much when the traffic is as light as on Streetview but imagine that you are alongside that Audi - that's when it kicks off and it does regularly.
What do I do? Do I do as they do and ignore road markings and cut up people who are doing it correctly or shall I just continue to drive defensively and absorb the regular abuse I'm currently getting?
Hope I've explained my first post enough!
Steve
Last edited by: Enoughalready on Fri 16 Jul 10 at 17:12
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There are lots of places where significant numbers of drivers behave like apes, because they haven't got the brains not to. Behave correctly yourself and don't take any crap from people who aren't behaving correctly. Unless it would cause delay or embarrassment of course. If that's the case discretion is the better part of valour.
The maximum progress/minimum stress project has to take precedence over scoring moral points. Content yourself with the thought that wallies meet their comeuppance in the end.
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I do react to the abuse but in a polite sort of way. I'm not meek by any means and don't get or feel threatened but with age (45!) I can't be bothered to react to road rage - I find it embarrassing.
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>> I can't be bothered to react to road rage - I find it embarrassing.
Best to ignore it. Not because it is the sensible and mature thing to do but because, I reckon, that the best way to get back at road ragers is to pretend that you haven't seen them and let them go on their merry way.
I learnt that the first time that I, ashamedly, used my horn to rebuke somebody who had annoyed me (not proud of it). Of course, they just went on their merry way, either oblivious to me or doing a good job of ignoring me. I could feel my blood pressure rise several notches!
So, if somebody starts with the horn/shouting etc I just ignore them, or maybe give a wave of thanks for kindly letting me in.
The only sad thing is that, it doesn't happen to me anywhere near as much as it did in my first few weeks of driving.
Oh, and if I have done something stupid or unreasonable, I do try to take the effort to apologise. My earlier comments were about the apes that AC refers to.
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The road markings support your interpretation.
I'd fit an airhorn, something suitably illegal if you're taking a lot of snash. It should make your lights dim and your ignition splutter because its compressor draws so much current.
Letter to the council for poor markings though.
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It looks like a crrrrrrrrazy set up to me and it must catch out a fair few drivers,
if you often suffer road rage at that point then you must be in the wrong (in their eyes)
I'd go with the flow and do what's best to get out in one piece.
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Maybe adding a little common sense, positioning, and local knowledge to the letter of the law and road markings is called for.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 16 Jul 10 at 18:04
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>>I keep attracting road rage
Welcome.
I'm not jumping to conclusions here, but with the greatest respect are you, perhaps unwittingly, the common factor?
I've taken that turn off at least three times in the last month from the right lane, in busy traffic, without problems. I can't imagine where the conflict arises, unless with the 3 into 2 lanes on the A404, where there's actually plenty of room to blend in provided you are not confronted with a 'blocker'.
I quite enjoy that roundabout in a perverse way, I can't resist using the 'wrong' lane to make progress sometimes, but I think I've always managed it without provoking any undocumented hand signals or inappropriate use of audible warning device.
Mind you, my peripheral vision is poor and I'm a bit deaf.
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I know that roundabout well. The lane configuation at all the parts round that roundabout are stupid, made worse by loads of sets of lights and hence lots of F1 starts and jostling for postion.
Road rage would erupt on that roundabout even if we banned cars. Ignore it and do your best.
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"I can't imagine where the conflict arises, unless with the 3 into 2 lanes on the A404"
The conflict is not on the A404 itself it's how people position themselves on the r/bout to take the exit immediately after the A404.
I travel across this roundabout probably about 14 times a week and it doesn't happen every time but when it happens they do exactly what the Audi does without knowing they've forced others to brake suddenly or been forced into lane two when they wanted to be in lane one.
The fact that it is even on Googles Streetview shows it's a regular occurrence.
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That roundabout is every lorry drivers nightmare, so don't worry that it's just you.
I used to use it a lot and always wanted the exit you mention.
Imagine trying to take that exit from the correct position ( as you do) and finding half of High Wycombe under the nearside of your trailer.
The local HA need to sort it out once and for all.
Pat
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Don't suppose that single yellow line down the middle of the road helps much.
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If its any consolation, I just blasted someone in the middle lane who decided to carry on round the roundabout when I was (perfectly correctly) in land 3 going straight ahead to the A404. Driving a landcruiser, people tend not to mess with me, but this lady clearly hadn't looked.
For people in that area, the Marlow Bottom sign leads you down to Marlow Brewery, who brew great beer, and are happy to give you a taste 0 just follow the road down, then take the right fork and look for the sign.
Last edited by: Tigger on Fri 16 Jul 10 at 19:32
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Living in High Wycombe I often use Handy Cross, my advise is to pretty much ignore the road markings and use the most sensible lane for the exit you wish to take.
ie, from your start position A404 Marlow lane 1 or 2, Marlow bottom or further round lane 3.
adjust to the next correct lane at a sensible and safe time.
I have found many people using the M40 north filter lane to try and blatantly push in front of others as they wish to come off at the A4010 turn.
I will admit to sending a few down the M40 by holding my ground - if the other driver looks to be in that lane by accident I will allow them out- its just the pushy oinks Ill hold position on.
I believe that Handy Cross could be improved by removing some of the traffic lights, and having a 'double red' to allow the unlighted roads to clear....
for instance just after the A404 turn, there are lights to allow traffic to clear from Marlow.. this often causes gridlock as vehicles stop on the 'keep clear' area, IF both ways on the the M40 junction (joining, and the lights on the roundabout) were red at the same time, this would allow the A404 joining and leaving to flow, preventing the gridlock from forming.
I think it would only take a double red of less than 30 seconds to clear that area.
I hope I made my idea clear, and what do others think of it?
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>...an amazing display of hand signals all the way down to Marlow Bottom.
Good grief! I haven't seen that one since I left the Merchant Navy.
You have my sympathy - that junction is a dreadful piece of design and barely comprehensible even to the usually competent first-time visitor. Like many junctions, it's at its worst just when people are at their lowest in time, space and patience. All you can do is keep your wits about you, your eyes wide open and do what you consider - in this order - safe, sensible and courteous.
Amen to the Marlow Brewery, Tigger. Pungent, potent, formidable stuff. Recommended.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 16 Jul 10 at 22:49
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>>that junction is a dreadful piece of design and barely comprehensible even to the usually competent first-time visitor.
>>
I am familiar with it going east and down to the M4 and am always aware of lane chopping.
IMO far worse is the roundabout coming off the southbound A1 (M) to go West on the M25.
Having detected the poorly signed little slip road off th A1 then having to change lanes at every set of traffic lights as you progress round this badly signed mess is a real pain every trip.
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A hell of a lot of these motorway and urban dual carriageway intersections and roundabouts are like that at busy times of the day, and it's busy round here at such times as any fool know.
I'm sure I've been through that junction but I don't remember it. There are plenty of others though, roundaboutswith big and small roads going off them and only three lanes... it's commonplace. The way to approach places like that at the wrong time of day is to read the traffic in front of you as you ease up to the thing. It's not as if you didn't have ample time.
If there's any high incidence of poor so-and-sos having to cross two lanes of uptight south east commuter types, of a sort we know I think, then you know how to behave when you get there to ease traffic flow innit?
Assaway I see it anyway.
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>>uptight south east commuter types>>
Got it in one AC.
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Some of us have to commute 100+ miles each way on a regular basis. Why would we not want to make some progress, and get fed up with people sitting in the wrong lanes and cutting across traffic without indicating?
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There's a roundabout near me where people try to use the turn left only lane to get ahead of the queue in the straight ahead middle lane, switching lanes as they enter the roundabout.
All you can is "boldly position" your car by staying slightly ahead to hold them in their lane. If they get the slightest ahead of you then you just have to let them go - I've learned not to react with a blast of the horn, as some of them will slam their brakes on mid-roundabout.
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>> Some of us have to commute 100+ miles each way on a regular basis.>>
Crap, you dont "have to", it is your choice.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 17 Jul 10 at 14:46
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Not much of a choice though is it, commute 100 miles or stay at home with no dosh.
I have a regular (3+ times a week) 100 mile commute to my current customer. Maybe I should ask them if they'd mind moving office to near me?
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>> Not much of a choice though is it, commute 100 miles or stay at home>> with no dosh.
>>
Why? Don't you enjoy the company of No Do$h?
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>> Got it in one AC.
I suppose in the interests of strict accuracy I should admit that it takes an uptight south east commuter type to know one... after all, if you aren't looking to make progress then you won't bother to calculate the quickest and most relaxed way through the snarl-up which, as we all know, means quite often giving way to clumsy mimsers because that's the quickest way to get rid of them.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 17 Jul 10 at 15:20
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>> quite often giving way to clumsy mimsers because that's the quickest way to get rid of them.
Of course you can then regret it if you get stuck behind one for the next three miles, making their car as wide as Schumacher's and creatively using cyclists, opposing traffic and parked cars to build up charming little bottlenecks out of absolutely fanny adams...
We could all go on indefinitely in this vein. But being held up for no reason at all is part and parcel of driving these days. One can't help getting in a rage sometimes but it's better to expect it and think of higher things. However brutal one's dismissal of mimsers, lane-changers and the like, one can't get far down the road before meeting another one. So best not to be too brutal too often.
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'Driving a landcruiser, people tend not to mess with me, but this lady clearly hadn't looked.'
Ah, road rage located at source......................
Last edited by: R40 on Sun 18 Jul 10 at 09:51
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>> 'Driving a landcruiser, people tend not to mess with me,
Planning a drive to the Australian outback ? Or mines bigger than yours syndrome ?
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Don't see what you are complaining about, once took us an hour to negotiate that roundabout, son driving, first time he had driven near London. Was surprised whern I told him to "forget the highway code, if there is six inches clear in front of the car move into it".
It surprises me how many drivers IGNORE road markings, on roundabout in Lichfield was remarked when my son was learning and the lane for Rugeley changed. His instructor did not notice, it is the one thing I told him to do differently to his instructor who came around after a month. SWMBO can't seem to stay between two white lines on a roundabout!
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Road Rage Roundabout - Armel Coussine
