Motoring Discussion > Uninsured car in council car park	Legal Questions
Thread Author: rtj70	Replies: 38

Wed 14 Jul 10 17:21   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

A car (happens to be an M5 BMW) has been parked in our local library car park since before Christmas now. It is taxed but no longer insured. Is there any offence being committed? Police say they can do nothing because it's a private car park (council) and the offence would be driving without insurance (it's broken down). Council cannot do anything either it seems until the tax runs out. Surely this can be dealt with but how? TIA Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 17:34   Uninsured car in council car park - FotheringtonTomas

If I was the car's owner, I'd be rather worried. Ask the police to write you a letter confirming that the car's driver need not have an insurance policy in force. I think that this will spark some action. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 17:35   Uninsured car in council car park - R.P.

They can deal with it if they so choose by placing a notice on it despite the fact that the tax has run out. There's some guidance on it on the net somewhere - the requirements changed in 05 I think. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 17:41   Uninsured car in council car park - Armel Coussine

Why does anyone give a tuppeny damn? The car isn't being driven, it still has an excise licence and it's in a private car park belonging to the council. It is a possession that has become burdensome to someone, as cars so easily can and so often do. What is the attraction of making it even more burdensome to the man and the authorities by faffing to the fuzz about it? Jeez, some people. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 14 Jul 10 18:01   Uninsured car in council car park - Old Navy

Armel would soon change his tune if it was abandoned outside his house. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 18:37   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

Because the car park is busy and it's been taking a place for over 7 months. Kids do occasionally jump from recycle bins onto car roofs but sadly not for this one. Despite being next to the bins too. So this person who used to run a BMW M5 (a number of years old, model before last) is now taking a place in the car park used by library users. And he's also in there all the time and has been asked to move it. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 17:43   Uninsured car in council car park - R.P.

Done some googling - some councils say they can't remove abandoned vehicles that are taxed some say they can - hey ho nobody knows ! Mind you one Authority publishes detailed guidelines that says that their Officers have the discretion to remove a car with no tax and seems they are supported by legislation. One interesting question for the "no we can't" brigade is how do they deal with foreign registered cars. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 18:05   Uninsured car in council car park - Iffy

...police say they can do nothing because it's on private land... It is land to which the public have access, so I reckon it is an offence to park it there without a policy of insurance in force, assuming it's an offence to park a car on the highway without insurance The car could catch fire while your car is parked next to it, damaging your vehicle - the owner of the other car is liable for your damage. A similar argument crops up in court occasionally with drink drivers who are done in the pub car park or on their driveway. The land might be private, but unless it is fenced and gated with a lock, the public is deemed to have access, so it's the same as being on the highway. Last edited by: ifithelps on Wed 14 Jul 10 at 18:06 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 18:14   Uninsured car in council car park - Zero

Frankly, its got nothing to do with you. If its outside your house or causing you some obstruction fine complain - its not so just do a Dionne - walk on by. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 18:38   Uninsured car in council car park - Armel Coussine

>> walk on by. What, and risk the car bursting into flames or exploding just as you pass? Let slip the opportunity to be a galloping pain in the bum to a total stranger? Clearly Zero you have no conception of the burdens - moral, intellectual, social and political - that afflict the truly tiny mind. Can't say I have either really. Takes all sorts though unfortunately. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 18:41   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

>> It is land to which the public have access, so I reckon it is an offence to park it there without a policy of insurance It's not being driven though. >> The car could catch fire while your car is parked next to it, damaging your vehicle I posed this question to the council and said what if it caught fire and took out the library. But they cannot do anything. Their hands are tied. Responding to Zero's comment below (above now probably), it has something to do with the public when you cannot park at the library when someone has abandoned a vehicle. Maybe I try plan B... I tell them about the youth's jumping on car roofs ;-) I only worked out it was uninsured because I was going to call to ask his insurance what they thought about it. A few months ago it was insured and tax. Now only taxed. EDIT: The crazy bit is this is an M5 BMW that is not being used! And it looks in good nick. Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 14 Jul 10 at 18:43 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 18:47   Uninsured car in council car park - Skoda

>> EDIT: The crazy bit is this is an M5 BMW that is not being used! And it looks in good nick. Find out what's wrong with it & buy it at a keen price :-P Wish i had an M5 in similar condition / circumstances nearby. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 18:53   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

I think if it looked like a shed it would have been scrapped by now. It's only because it's an M5 it's still there. I have no idea what it's worth working let alone not working. It must be an expensive fix because it's still there after 7 month. In two months the council will take it away anyway (no tax) and possibly crush it. I bet the number plate is worth a few quid too (it's a cherished plate starting M5xx). Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 19:10   Uninsured car in council car park - commerdriver

>> (it's a cherished plate starting M5xx). >> Aren't these standard on that model? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 19:34   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

Probably ;-) If it was my car and I couldn't afford to get it going then I'd sell it. It had tax expiring Sept 2010 when it broke down. He may not get what he wants for it but that's life. I know someone who knows him I think (ex neighbour) so might pop around. I wear to hats... I don't want him to lose the car but I don't see why he's taking a space. The parking at the library is free. Around the corner it is 30p for two hours... is that why the council will drag their feet. They might be making more money. If he does not move it in the next few months then he will need insurance to get it taxed... but it's not running. His time is running out. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 19:41   Uninsured car in council car park - Bellboy

let a brick fall out of your handbag and fall inadvertantly through the screen complain to the council you might cut yourself on the glass watch the car move i agree by the way,our local library carpark is small and people use it to park all day to go into the village thing is these same people will end up making us all pay for the carpark use in the end as people complain they cant get access Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 19:46   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

I only popped in today to see my wife who work there mind ;-) Discussing our next next holiday which is now booked for May next year. The next holiday in Sept was booked last August for a real good deal. In the past youths have jumped on cars where he's parked (off the recycling bins) so I'd have thought he should move it ASAP. He seems not bothered. He uses the library a few times a week still but they cannot get him to move the car. In theory a local hire company could park a dozen cars in the car park and nothing could be done. You'd have thought there ought to be a limit of how long to stay. The pay and display car park nearby is checked by staff frequently. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 19:52   Uninsured car in council car park - Zero

so you know who it is then? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 19:54   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

Not personally. But I recognise the car (private/cherished plate) which used to park opposite our old house when visiting someone. I had assumed until today it was still insured and therefore might have called them to ask what they thought.... but since April the insurance has lapsed. Local PCOs may know of a local bylaw that can be used... but looks like it will sit there until Sept and then be removed. And then when in a compound they won't be able to reclaim it and it will be scrapped. Which is madness. Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 14 Jul 10 at 19:55 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 20:00   Uninsured car in council car park - hobby

Has the car park any "limits" for the length of time you can park there? He may have knocked up a healthy fine which they could use as an excuse to move it? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 20:38   Uninsured car in council car park - Stuartli

I found these snippets whilst Googling: uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100115042444AAvPmUA tinyurl.com/3xvaqj9 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 14 Jul 10 20:53   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

No limits... which I now find surprising. But staff also park there. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 07:51   Uninsured car in council car park - Dwight Van Driver

Prior to 2000 a vehicle had to be insured whilst 'on a road'. A Library Car Park was not held to be a road but private property. Under Motor Vehicles (Compulsory Insurance) Regs 2000 added to where a vehicle needed Insurance was the term 'public place' i.e. one that the public have access. A Library during opening hours is a place where the public are invited to visit so their Car Park falls within the definition of 'public place' - Insurance needed. Further LA's do have the powers in relation to vehicles which appear to have been abandoned ANYWHERE in the open air. dvd Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 10:43   Uninsured car in council car park - Bromptonaut

The Council surely have powers to deal with abandoned vehicles where ever they are. Is it possible that it belongs to a Councillor or senior official? Caused a bit of fun locally when that happened:- www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/Borough-council-leader-reveals-his.5694263.jp Pressure the council again and ask about their complaints process. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 12:49   Uninsured car in council car park - Chris White

My car that I'm trying to sell is parked in a shared car park for the block of flats where I live. The car is taxed but not insured. The insurance has been transferred over to my new car. The car park is not gated or locked so would be considered a public place. Technically, I could be charged with some offence for leaving the vehicle there without being insured? Chris. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 13:02   Uninsured car in council car park - Iffy

...Technically, I could be charged with some offence for leaving the vehicle there without being insured?... Yes, although it would seem unlikely. Because it is uninsured, you as the owner are liable for any losses it may cause. My suggestion earlier of the parked car catching light and setting fire to a car next to it was ridiculed, but the nature of these events is that you can't see them coming. Some insurance are amenable to extending limited cover to the old car in these situations - might be worth asking. I wouldn't be losing any sleep if I were in your situation, but I would want rid of the uninsured car sooner rather than later. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 12:52   Uninsured car in council car park - Dave

How do you know it's not insured? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 13:06   Uninsured car in council car park - NoDo$h

www.askmid.com/ownvehicle/ Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 13:24   Uninsured car in council car park - Ted

Just how far does ' A place to which the public have access ' go ? I have an uninsured, untaxed, sorned Fiesta parked in my drive. Public access is easy, just step off the pavement. Am I in breach of the law.....unlikely as it is that anyone would be bothered ? I think not........but can't be sure now ! Ted Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 13:29   Uninsured car in council car park - Armel Coussine

I don't think the Sheikh would drop you in it Ted. But you never know when one of these private ANPR wallahs will mimse past and fix their beady little eyes on its number plate... I'd stand a flower pot in front of it or something... bit of mud on the plate... :o} Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 13:31   Uninsured car in council car park - Iffy

...Am I in breach of the law.....unlikely as it is that anyone would be bothered ?... Yes you are, but as you say, it's unlikely anyone would be bothered. Gates - which are locked - would turn your drive into land to which the public does not have access. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 13:36   Uninsured car in council car park - Zero

>> ...Am I in breach of the law.....unlikely as it is that anyone would be bothered >> ?... >> >> Yes you are, but as you say, it's unlikely anyone would be bothered. No he is not in breach of the law. On his own drive it does not tax or insurance. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 16:09   Uninsured car in council car park - FotheringtonTomas

>> he is not in breach of the law. On his own drive it does not (need) tax or insurance. Although if it has been on the road since the advent of the SORN, it does need that. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 16:08   Uninsured car in council car park - FotheringtonTomas

>> I have an uninsured, untaxed, sorned Fiesta parked in my drive. Public access is easy, >> just step off the pavement. Am I in breach of the law. No, you are not. Your house and gardens are not public, there is no public access despite the postman, milkman and friends various coming to your door. Your car is insured on your household insurance, if you have it. There is no legal requirement to have your car insured if it stays at home. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 17:55   Uninsured car in council car park - Iffy

...No, you are not. Your house and gardens are not public... You can be done for drink driving on your driveway, so it might as well be. Unless, as I mentioned earlier, the car is behind locked gates. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 16 Jul 10 00:20   Uninsured car in council car park - Fullchat

"You can be done for drink driving on your driveway, so it might as well be." Sorry you cannot as its not deemed to be on a 'road or public place'. However if you have just driven it there having very recently driven on a 'road or public place' then you can. RTA 1988 contains the legislation Section 6 - Breath tests (1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable cause to suspect— (a) that a person driving or attempting to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place has alcohol in his body or has committed a traffic offence whilst the vehicle was in motion, or (b) that a person has been driving or attempting to drive or been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place with alcohol in his body and that that person still has alcohol in his body, or (c) that a person has been driving or attempting to drive or been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place and has committed a traffic offence whilst the vehicle was in motion, he may, subject to section 9 of this Act, require him to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test. Note the word 'Has' - past tense. However there is an implied right to enter someones driveway so until such time as a request to leave is made a breathtest can be required. However Section 4 RTA 1988 (Driving whilst Unfit Drink/Drugs) (6) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect that that person is or has been committing an offence under this section. (7) For the purpose of arresting a person under the power conferred by subsection (6) above, a constable may enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be. So that gives power to be on driveway or even enter premises BUT a breathtest cannot be requested. It a straight arrest and then revert to standard station procedure. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 15 Jul 10 17:59   Uninsured car in council car park - hobby

>> Your car is >> insured on your household insurance, if you have it. There is no legal requirement to >> have your car insured if it stays at home. >> Is that really true, FT? I only ask because I've always kept my SORN'd cars insured! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 18:12   Uninsured car in council car park - FotheringtonTomas

Legally, yes. You could telephone a car insurance company, or a police station, if you are still not sure. It may be that your household policy has a limit on individual items not expressly named, though, so it's worth double checking about your old "pride & joys" if you think they're likely to wander, catch fire, disappear down a collapsing mineshaft, etc. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 15 Jul 10 14:34   Uninsured car in council car park - rtj70

Police confirmed it to me but I tried the ASKMID database. For £3.50 fee I was going to phone his insurer ;-) But there isn't one. Reply to this message | Report message