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i know the answer is probably "go and inspect your deeds" however, my garden has three wooden fences, left, right and one at the end and all three of them have the main support posts on my side. So far as I can see this makes me responsible for all of them! Two of them need the posts re-set, they are loose in the ground, and it could be quite costly. Any thoughts please?
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Because the posts are your side, it does not automatically mean they are your responsibility, however while not common, its not unheard of to be responsible for all fences depending on the circumstances.
The only definitive answer is the deeds, and even then may not provide the answer. (like the all too common "your boundary responsibility is marked in red" - guess what colour fades to nothing over time)
Every property I have been involved with (5) the boundary responsibility has been on the left
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 29 Mar 15 at 15:13
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>>Because the posts are your side, it does not automatically mean they are your responsibility
>>.
Three or four years ago one of my neighbours decided to replace all three fences around his garden even though one fence was probably not his responsibility.
He thought it looked nicer so all three fences have the feather boards on his side.
We now have three fences around our garden with the arris rails all on our side.
I can live with that as the tatty old fence has been replaced with a reasonably good one.
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>> Every property I have been involved with (5) the boundary responsibility has been on the left
Viewed looking away from the house in my book.
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>> >> Every property I have been involved with (5) the boundary responsibility has been on the left
>> Viewed looking away from the house in my book.
>>
Both the properties I have owned "my" fence is on the right.
(Same applies to my current neighbours )
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I spoke to my neighbour, we went halves, seemed fair.
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When my house was built I was responsible for one of the boundary fences. More properties were erected the other side of that boundary and new fences put up inside their land. I insisted the original posts were retained to show the limit of my property, as my deeds show me responsible for that boundary.
That decision's saved me considerable cost over the years.
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OP mentions cost. I have just been quoted £1800 for 100 feet of 4-6 foot high fencing and posts (2/3 is close boarded, 1/3 premade panels). This includes removal of old fence which is covered with thick ivy. Not bad I thought. I think its quite a competitive area of work compared with other trades I've engaged recently.
In the past, as a cheap repair that lasted a couple of years, I've hammered in long "farm gate" hinges alongside the posts. The rolled part at the hinge end offers a good surface to hit with the sledge hammer and they even come pre-drilled to screw into the post. Just make sure there are no services in the line of fire or you might end up with broken drains or worse!
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Easy DIY job though if you're that way inclined and you have the time to spare. Probably do it for half that amount. Extra pair of hands is a good idea though.
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I have had a dispute with my neighbour since they accidentally set my house on fire several years ago. The boundary fence between us has the original fence that you get in all new build properties and then the previous owner of my house built a new fence from lorry trailer wood and screwed it onto the original fence.
For years my neighbour has been at me to take it down as it is admittedly quite ugly. However since the fire, and their refusal to talk to me, I have replaced all the other fences in my property myself and deliberately left this one as I know it annoys them. Every so often strong wind blows down a panel and so there are a couple of gaping holes now.
I may get round to it at some point but not top of my priorities!
All the fences I have built have been ranch style - very easy DIY. Just make sure you have a breaking pole, a pole spirit level and lots of post mix and its a dawdle. And cheap.
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>> For years my neighbour has been at me to take it down as it is
>> admittedly quite ugly.
set fire to it, see how he likes it.
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>> I have had a dispute with my neighbour since they accidentally set my house on
>> fire several years ago.
yeah that tends to put a damper on neighbourly relations...
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>> Easy DIY job though if you're that way inclined and you have the time to
>> spare. Probably do it for half that amount. Extra pair of hands is a good
>> idea though.
Its straightforward, but not easy.
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Well I have put up quite a few fences in my time and I found it to be both easy and straightforward but as always I bow to your greater knowledge in the use of the English language.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 29 Mar 15 at 19:24
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>> Well I have put up quite a few fences in my tim
So Have I
>>and I found
>> it to be both easy and straightforward
And I have found it straight forward bout not easy, as you yourself indicated when you reference the usefulness of another pair of hands
>>but as always I bow to your greater
>> knowledge in the use of the English language.
Cant expect someone form Norfolk to have any form of english the rest of us know about.
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>> Its straightforward, but not easy.
Agree. it's not that difficult to get a fence up but to maintain a straight line post>panel>post panel is more of a challenge.
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You only need a piece of string.
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>> You only need a piece of string.
So no other tools of any kind? WTF do you do, tie it to a tree?
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If you gave ever put up a fence, you will surely have used a line secured to a screw in the anchor posts at either end of the fence around 6 inches above the ground. It is then a simple and straightforward procedure to align the posts as you erect the fence with each of them just touching the line.
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>> If you gave ever put up a fence, you will surely have used a line
>> secured to a screw in the anchor posts at either end of the fence around
>> 6 inches above the ground. It is then a simple and straightforward procedure to align
>> the posts as you erect the fence with each of them just touching the line.
Ok so what tools do you use to ensure there are holes in the ground? to ensure the fence posts are all the same height? to ensure they are all the same distance part? to ensure all the fence posts are exactly upright? to fix the panels (or the rails) to the posts?
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>> Ok so what tools do you use to ensure there are holes in the ground?
>> to ensure the fence posts are all the same height? to ensure they are all
>> the same distance part? to ensure all the fence posts are exactly upright? to fix
>> the panels (or the rails) to the posts?
My experience was of trying to overcome those complications using metaposts. Mr McGowan's teeth were a pretty good analogy.
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>> >> Ok so what tools do you use to ensure there are holes in the
>> ground?
>> >> to ensure the fence posts are all the same height? to ensure they are
>> all
>> >> the same distance part? to ensure all the fence posts are exactly upright? to
>> fix
>> >> the panels (or the rails) to the posts?
>>
>> My experience was of trying to overcome those complications using metaposts. Mr McGowan's teeth were
>> a pretty good analogy.
>>
I had a nice 'relaxing' morning erecting some 6x6 heavy duty trellis panels for SWMBO. Cold (ish), drizzling and really really windy down here. I'd almost forgotten the joys of watching the Metposts twist and shift sideways slightly as one bangs 'em in. At least I was using the marginally more expensive posts with a clamp, so a few scraps of wood for wedges allowed me to keep the posts vaguely vertical. Still she seemed pleased so job's a good 'un.
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>> Cold (ish), drizzling and really really windy down here. I'd almost forgotten the joys of
>> watching the Metposts twist and shift sideways slightly as one bangs 'em in.
Its an impossible feat to stop them moving as you bang them in. Thats why the pros rarely use them. They will always go for a hole, filled with crete.
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>> Ok so what tools do you use to ensure there are holes in the ground?
>> to ensure the fence posts are all the same height? to ensure they are all
>> the same distance part? to ensure all the fence posts are exactly upright? to fix
>> the panels (or the rails) to the posts?
>>
I normally use a spoon, a six inch ruler and a rubber mallet.
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>> I normally use a spoon, a six inch ruler and a rubber mallet.
I see that village vacancy has been filled......
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>>I normally use a spoon, a six inch ruler and a rubber mallet.
I am intrigued.
Surely a string line marking the middle of the holes, dug to a depth that the string is the same height on each post.
Then along with sharp sand and a trowel for fine upping and downing as needed.
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"I am intrigued."
I was employing sarcasm.
In answer to your question
No the line marks the outside edge of the posts. You erect the posts so they just touch the line You dig the holes as you go putting up one piece of panel at a time and securing the posts in an upright position with a couple of timber braces to temporarily nailed to the posts. Doesn't matter exactly how deep the holes are as long as enough post is sticking out the ground. You can trim them with a saw when you have finished. When you get to the last one or two panels you may need to cut them to get the right widths.
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>>I was employing sarcasm.
Whereas I was being dense.
>> the line marks the outside edge of the posts
Correct, of course. My mistake.
>> Doesn't matter exactly how deep the holes are
I mostly used to use concrete posts, so trimming the bottom off wasn't really possible. The depth of the hole really mattered, as did the slope of the land.
Concrete is best. Hammer dowels into the holes to nail the panels to. When after time you eventually get a duff panel, hacksaw the nails, remove the panel, nail in a new one. Simples!
The worst thing about it was that I did mostly fences and trees in the winter, and the concrete posts are miserable on the skin. Landscaping and patios in the summer were almost relaxing.
Anywhere between Henley to Langley and High Wycombe to Windsor, you may well have one of my fences - I did a lot. Howard Jones had one!!
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 30 Mar 15 at 00:25
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I have always used oak posts. More or less impervious to rot.
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I don't know why we didn't use oak, I was in charge of doing the work not getting it - me and my entire team of me and the occasional useless pillock from the Job Centre - I don't think one ever stuck out a whole week.
It was pretty much concrete or nasty cheap stuff described as "timber". I still prefer concrete these days if I happen to be doing one of my own.
At least we had proper creosote in those days. I loved the smell.
And Heinz baked beans tasted better.
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CG I am sure you are right that its a potential DIY job but 100 feet is a lot of fence to take down, dispose of and create new holes in our rock hard ground. 25 years ago, when strapped for cash, I laboured for my builder neighbour when he replaced a similar fence between our then properties and it was no big deal. Now at 60 years old with bilateral tennis elbow but a reasonably healthy bank balance I am happier to leave it to an expert. If (using your figures) he does it at materials plus 100% then I think its a bargain. If only guttering and exteranl painting were so reasonable but thats another story.............
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Yes, there are plenty of jobs I would have once done for myself and would now happily pay for. I don't think I will ever lay a patio again for example although again that's not really difficult, just hard work.
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>> If only guttering and exteranl painting were so reasonable but thats another story.............
>>
It is depending on your postcode.
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>> Easy DIY job though if you're that way inclined and you have the time to
>> spare. Probably do it for half that amount. Extra pair of hands is a good
>> idea though.
>>
Easy for some maybe, my attempts at fence erection end up looking like Shane McGowan's teeth.
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When we moved in 35 years ago there was a newish fence (my side) of the garden.
Quite well constructed, concrete posts, arris rails and feather edge boards.
4 x2 bolted each side of the posts for arris rail sockets
No post caps or caps on the feather edge.
Cheap additions and well worth having IMO.
Fence has lasted quite well.
I decided to replace the gravel boards prior to new neighbours moving in.
#1 problem. The bottom of the 4 x 2 had rotted so had to fabricate short 4 x 2 to bolt to all existing ones ( notched to fit around the arris rails.)
#2 problem .The longest gravel boards available had gone metric and were and inch or two short.
Not up to my normal standard but I fitted them and left gaps.
I have constructed two fences to match existing fences and am very proud of the final appearance that hides a complicated construction.
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I have excellent fencing down the right hand side.......my man with the grabs and the 1960 Fordson truck used the best quality stuff and made a spot on job.
About 10 years ago, I could see the house on the left...on the other side of the drive...becoming empty and up for sale. It was the MiL's but we didn't know who or when someone would move in. I decided to fence between the drives. My man with the truck came and again put in top quality posts and panels from the footpath to MiL's garage...and then from the end of the garage down the rest of the boundary.
New neighbour, who I knew, moved in and after a time decided to remove the garage, which formed a part of the fence along the boundary. I had a twenty foot gap for a while when he asked my advice on filling it with a fence. I told him I had someone and a phone call would sort it for him. No way....probably a half-millionaire but he won't spend. Pigging lickpenny !
To do it properly, the concrete would have had to be cut back for the posts and base panels...no problem, I have a 3 phase breaker. No, with the help of a ' non-DIY ' relly, he bolted steel sockets to the garage base, put 6ft wooden posts in and then cheap panels held in by U brackets. The sockets only had 2 bolts each instead of 4......lazy git !
Nothing straight, nothing level and nothing vertical. Plus some panels needed reducing in width to accommodate the gap size. His house is east of ours so within the month 2 panels had blown out onto his lawn. He's had to replace one which blew out again and shattered and now the top 9 inches of the next one has rotted and blown away ! The posts are now braced on his side by 18inch galvanized ' L ' brackets.
The three good panels I had done between the back of his ex garage have rotted down from the top and collapsed due to his bushes constantly rubbing against them over the years.
Sod it, why should I fork out for his mess. I guess that's what he's after. I can't see it from the house, I have another 6 ft fence between my drive and my garden which blocks my view. I don't know why anyone would want to inflict that on his neighbour..there'll be words soon...I can feel it coming on !
Like others here, I'm certainly not going to get involved with any erection at my age !...Fnaar fnaar.
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Lord knows about our fencing. None left or right, but the bottom of garden - well it once was a field, that was sold off for a new estate to be built in the nineties. Developer apparently put in the fence.
It runs across the width of our garden, but on the other side are four houses and the fence runs across the end of all their gardens. No idea whether the fence belongs to them or us, and it IS beginning to look a bit weary. Hmm...
To add to the fun, it turned out later, apparently, and this came to light before we bought, that the fence was misaligned by a metre, conveniently for them, so they all have a metre more than they should and in one corner I can't get access to one side of the shed. Still, am I really going to get my lawyer that I don't have to talk to four other lawyers to get the fence moved one metre, with all the hassle it would cause?
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>> am I really going to get my lawyer that I don't have to talk to four other lawyers to get the fence moved one metre, with all the hassle it would cause?
And all the money honey!
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When I bought my house the deal was that I build a fence down the left side of the garden (viewed with my back to the house) so I assumed that was the boundary I was responsible for. The plot had been split in two before sale to leave a vacant building site on the other side. The type of fence was not specified so, as I don't like the shut-in effect of high fences, I had a low post-and-wire one installed.
Over the next 40 years the vacant plot was build over and the new owners, without commenting, built their own substantial, close-boarded, but mostly 40" high wooden fence on concrete foundations alongside mine. New neighbours on the opposite side, having unsuccessfully hinted that they thought I was responsible for the joint boundary, went on to erect a 6'6" wooden fence then another one later, when that fell to pieces. The high wooden fence on the third side has just been rebuilt for the third time (with the posts and rails on my side).
I only received the deeds form the mortgage holder a couple of years back months ago and the left side boundary is indeed marked in red.
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Our new neighbours (moved into their house in 2008. They removed the grotty wooden fence panels in 2011 and I helped him insert new recycled plastic fending into the concrete posts (which were fine despite being 40+ years old). Cost in the region of £40 per panel x 30. Labour was of a high quality (!) and free... The panels were brown and look quite nice - no evident deterioration despite being nearly 5 years old.
The rest of our property backs on to fields and uses cast iron fencing of c 1860 vintage. I paint it every 10 years or so.. It keeps out the cows but lets in foxes, badgers and the occasional hedgehog.
See..www.goplastic.co.uk/fencing.php
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Thank you all for your replies. As a start, I am going to inspect my deeds, after the Easter holiday!
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Too late! One fence has blown down! Seems it belongs to my neighbour,on my right! I shall offer to go 59/50 on it!
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Yep we lost one last night as well. Our side unfortunately. :-( Panel is intact but bowed enough to pop out of the slots on the concrete posts. We put it up in summer 2005, so can't really complain.
Neighbour's fence goes every couple of years. I have no idea who it is she gets to do it, but the thing is half falling down within days. If she was nice, I'd help her out.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 31 Mar 15 at 08:15
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This subject reminds me of a large fencing job I did with my carpenter pal for my friends in CA. They bought a new build from a contractor who had gone bust, on a one acre plot. The fence had to butt up to the side of the property at 90 degrees, then run downhill all around the perimeter, which was several hundred feet with levels all over the place. The ground was rocky & hard, with lots of roots from large sugar Pines. It took us 7 consecutive days to put in the posts, using a petrol powered auger. Working 8/10 hour days, we used 8' posts sinking them 2' into the ground and mixing postcrete in a barrow. Week 2 we fixed the rails. With levels all over the place, my pal did a fantastic job fixing three rails between each post using metal fixing plates. We then made a start screwing the boards on, but only got 10% done. As an extra headache, power lines ran over the garden, so we had to build three large double gates into the fence to allow large plant in should the overhead power lines need maintenance. And the three gates had to look just like the fence, so you could not tell they were there. Credit where it's due, it was my carpenter pals finest hour. We were at Home Depot every morning loading up with posts & post mix, and the raw materials alone cost somewhere approaching eight thousand bucks. I have photos somewhere. Lost a stone in weight doing the job, despite copious amounts of beer & Mexican food every night!
Then a few years later I returned to lay the lawn and put in irrigation, with help from my resident friends.
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>> Too late! One fence has blown down! Seems it belongs to my neighbour,on my right!
>> I shall offer to go 59/50 on it!
>>
59/50? That's original:-)
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Many thanks for the input so far. I have arranged to go to my solicitor to inspect
My deeds, after Easter and my problem fence blew down last night! So, apart
From the ownership comments I am now up to speed on replacement
Techniques!
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Have a word with your neighbours to share the cost.
Our fence at the end is shared and we put concrete post in the ground won't rot.
The fence at the left should be shared.I put this fence in myself using steel spikes and wooden post into it.This fence has been up for about fifteen years.
Our fence on the right is still the original about thirty years plus, wooden post into concrete.
I treat the wooden post every year creosote and bitumen at the base of the post.The base of the post is clear off the soil.
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Deeds showed that, surprisingly, I do not own any of the three fences, left, right or end, and the neighbours have replaced left and right. A suitable amount of wine has changed hands!
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Garden Fence Posts - Zero
