It is another one of those what do I do threads - I have been offered a job, main differences:
- No company car
- Subsidised car scheme
- Commute drops from 30 miles to 1 1/4 miles so could walk to work.
We need a largish car for holidays but SWMBO still needs a car for work and won't drive the Passat as it is too big so dropping to one car she will drive is not really an option. Boot needs to be Passat/Octavia size, preferably not an estate.
The dramatic drop in the commute leaves things wide open - not sure of the deal on the car scheme but they are offering £3k to cover the car, Should know what that will cover in a day or so and need to check the tax implications and how they cover business use.
Options I have considered so far:
Buy the Passat from the lease company and run it for 4-5 years (Almost 3 years old, FSH, 68k, only one minor bumper scrape, never misfueled, WBAC price 8k and it has all the extras I would want).
New Octavia (we used to have one)
Diesel or Petrol . . .
Car scheme or buy . . . .
Open to suggestions from those who have been through the same thought process.
|
I don't get this thing about woman wanting small cars - my wife prefers larger ones as she perceives them to be safer. Is it something to do with women being forced to drive by family circumstances, and not by choice?
Part of your decision must be dependent on how much the lease company wants for the Passat. Back in the old days you would get a good deal, but it changed over the three years between my first and second company car - the first was a bargain, the second top wack. If the price is reasonable, better the devil you know!
|
>>We need a largish car for holidays but SWMBO still needs a car for work and won't drive
>>the Passat as it is too big so dropping to one car she will drive is not really an option
A £3,000 car allowance would pay for rental cars for the few weeks a year you needed one and leave change - if that's the only reason for 2 cars.
|
>>A £3,000 car allowance would pay for rental cars for the few weeks a year you needed one
>>and leave change - if that's the only reason for 2 cars.
Or it would pay to buy and run the Passat.
Don't forget the £3k is subject to tax & NI; it's just extra salary and should be regarded as a part of the overall salary package. Then you should compute what you are prepared to spend on a car - rather than imagining that the full 3k should be spent on a car, as I know some people do.
|
|
Someone will be along and advise the purchase of an old Mondeo estate. If SWMBO has a Panda that would be Cheshire heaven...
|
and need to check the
>> tax implications and how they cover business use.
The tax implications are clear. Your 3k car allowance is taxable. You can offset up to 45p a mile (up to 10k miles, minus any mileage allowance paid to you) against tax.
When i was in company car land, the best financial option was to always buy your first co car at the end of its lease and run it on the company till it fell apart.
|
|
An allowance of £3000 doesn't sound much to me to run a car as an alternative to a company car. You'll not be paying tax on the BIK of having a car which gives a bit more money. Is there something else I'm missing? My allowance if I took the money instead of the car is over double what you seem to be offered.
|
>> You'll not be paying tax on the BIK of having a car which gives a bit more money.
But you'll be paying tax (& NI) on the 3k. Leaving you under £150 per month for the car.
|
That would barely keep Humph in bikes.
};---)
|
Yeah yeah yeah...
I was debating on suggesting that Mrs IJ might quite like a larger car if she got used to it.
|
When i was in company car land, the best financial option was to always buy your first co car at the end of its lease and run it through a bus till it fell apart.
Fixed it for you!
|
>> When i was in company car land, the best financial option was to always buy
>> your first co car at the end of its lease and run it through a
>> bus till it fell apart.
>>
>> Fixed it for you!
Yes you can terminate the lease early that way. However the post traumatic shock may cause you to choose a dog as a replacement.
|
>>................and run it through a bus .........................
>>
>> Fixed it for you!
>>
Something I'd rather not do
|
won't drive the Passat as it is too big ... Boot needs to be Passat/Octavia size, preferably
>> not an estate.
>>
I think that might be a hard one to square, passat sized boots normally come in passat sized cars.
>> New Octavia (we used to have one)
Isn't that passat sized?
|
|
What about something like a Qashqai or similar? Girls like those. Well, mine does anyway.
|
>> What about something like a Qashqai or similar? Girls like those. Well, mine does anyway.
Bit wide, expensive whiskers I hear.
|
|
That's no way to talk about Mrs Humph.
|
Some interesting ideas
Mrs IJ does not like driving large cars - it is a confidence issue. Never driven the Passat in 3 years, drove the Octavia once and drove the Accord for all of 5 yards.
The money is a challenge, have not accepted the job yet and their car scheme is described as subsidised but even so, and have told the agency this, I don't know if the £3k is adequate until I see details of the scheme. If I opt out where I am they would pay me £540 a month pre tax so I understand the limitations that 3k a year will have. Should have some details today and may get them to move on the number.
The logic behind taking the job is that it is a lifestyle change, almost two hours less in the car each day means more time in bed in the morning and doing what we want in the evening. Less miles means less risk of accidents. It should also be a much better place to work, can't be much worse that where I am now as we TUPEd into a different group company last year and there are many who think there is a hidden agenda to get rid of those who transferred.
Renting a car for holidays is logical but may not pass the Mrs IJ test (Anyone expect women to understand logic?). As she only works 4 days a week (some at weekends) we could probably live with one car but leaves her stuck at home if I have it for work and we have had two cars for the last 18 years.
I would rather have a smaller car with the lifestyle change than lose it over trying to keep a Passat/Mondeo where we know (because we ran one) that an Octavia estate will do.
|
>> Mrs IJ does not like driving large cars - it is a confidence issue.
Neither does Mrs BP. It's not a confidence thing - she used to happily driver her Dad's XJ6 - but her life revolves around lunches, shopping and taking our grandchild places and she just finds larger cars a faff to park. With her Jazz she knows if she sees a space then it'll fit.
I rarely take my Merc C Class to supermarkets, but we called in at one while out a couple of weekends ago and it was nightmare. It would have been difficult to get out of the car once it was in a space, evidenced by that classic thing happening of parking well away from everyone, only to return and find a car parked either side. I don't know how the driver on the left had got out of his/her car, I had to back out of the space for Mrs BP to be able to get in.
And the C Class isn't big - how people get on with large cars I have no idea.
|
1. Spot space.
2. Assess width of space (is an adjoining vehicle on or over dividing line?)
3. If space wide enough, reverse car into it.
It's not really a problem. The LEC isn't significantly wider than, say, a Focus, and the straight sides and tight turning circle make it easy to position. No real need for parking sensors (just as well as they're directly behind the rear wheels and don't like getting wet) as the rear window tells me where the back of the car is. You do have to be able to reverse-park a long car, though, otherwise reversing out becomes tricky because there's a lot of car that can't really turn until the front wheels are clear.
I don't often need to park parallel to a kerb, but I've never found that hard with this car either, despite its length. Tight curly ramps in multistoreys are alarming, but that's more of a visual impression and I'd probably feel much the same in a Smart.
|
>> 3. .. reverse car into it.
>>
I don't get reverse parking - for shopping etc (and even my work trips) you need to be able to get at the boot. Plus it's always seemed more logical to me to drive forward into a tight space and then reverse out into the less constrained area.
|
I take your point about the boot - and I do occasionally make an exception for that reason - but reversing out is harder than reversing in because the front wheels are in the constrained area for longer, especially in a RWD car like yours and mine, whose front wheels are right at the front. You tend to run out of turning space if there's a row of cars parked opposite.
Where's l'Escargot? I could never persuade him of this either.
|
My preference is always front first, simply because, as Bill said, I'd rather reverse out into the road than in to the parking spot.
I only reverse in if I suspect that I'm likely to have trouble getting out later - cars likely to park close, the "road" I need to reverse into is quite narrow, etc. etc.
|
|
I always try and find a "in and through" parking space.
|
|
Yes, but you have all day and nothing better to do.
|
>> Yes, but you have all day and nothing better to do.
Easy to do when the place is not cluttered up by the working classes.
|
I meant to add - if you can get the Passat at a reasonable price then, all-round, you're probably not going to be able to better that. However it won't thank you if most of your journeys are just the 1 1/4 mile commute.
You do need to check on the allowance - there could be some rules on age etc which might affect things.
|
My wife always tended to favour small cars until she rolled one and had to be cut out of what remained of it by the Fire Brigade. Now she wants a bit more metal around her.
On the parking thing, my E Class estate is much easier to park than her smaller Qashqai. I think it's the lock. Doddle in fact.
|
"she rolled one and had to be cut out of what remained of it by the Fire Brigade."
Was it skunk or weed?
|
|
Kind of, she finished up in a field...
|
Very roughly £540 per month is £6,000 p.a. as opposed to £3,000 p.a.
So, for me, the first step is to mention this to your potential new employer and inquire as to whether or not they would be willing to increase your basic to match this gap.
IMO one should pretty much never say no to a job offer. If it doesn't suit, return with a revised request; i.e. I'd love to work for you, but I need these revised terms for this reason.
Let them say no, not you. Don't make your requests outlandish though.
I'm assuming that there is far more to the new job than £3,000 less on the car, though the life style change would swing it for me. It would be an unusual, although by no means unknown, TUPE arrangement which wasn't somehow tied up with a desire for increased operational efficiency.
That aside, I think you have an emotional decision not a financial one -
Do you want a new company car?
Do you want to keep your VW?
Would you be happy with a cheap old car given its likely low mileage?
etc. etc.
Within reasonable bounds it seems that what you want (assuming that you can afford it) is significantly more important the the strict financially best solution..
|
If you want a new company car, go for it.
If you want to keep your VW, just go for it instead.
NFM2R is right, life's too short not to have what you want if you can afford it. And two hours a day more at home would be worth a lot to me if I had the choice between paying to run my own car or staying in a job further from home.
Now, if you would be happy with a cheaper older car, that's where we come in...
First, I see no point in trying to convince SWMBO to drive a bigger car. If she doesn't want to, she won't warm to it because you try to convince/coerce her.
Next, how 'large' a car do you want for holidays? Are you after passenger space, luggage volume, engine size, ride comfort...
Third, how 'big' would SWMBO drive? Focus size? No bigger than a Fiesta? Not an estate, a MPV, a SUV?
Think laterally - if you need load space and room for two adults, for example, would she drive (say) a Tiguan? You could put the back seats down and a roofbox on for holidays. Likewise a Berlingo has as much interior space as you could shake a stick at, but its smaller and squarer than a large estate if maneuvering a big car is her concern.
If none of the above works for you, then buy the biggest most spacious car you like. Better again buy it as a petrol to suit most of the short runs you'll do - what you save on buying the car will more than cover the extra fuel cost on your annual holiday.
Or think laterally again, buy even bigger, and get a crew cab or camper van, if hitting the road in one is your idea of a good holiday! After all, you can walk to work most days...
|
Who are you and what have you done with our Gromit? That's a 27-line post in a what-to-buy thread and not one suggestion that the perfect solution is a Subaru.
};---)
|
|
I agree that not travelling for 2 hours per day is worth more than the £3000 you may lose for the car. So that's 10 hours per week so call it 40 hours per month. Assume £20 hourly rate for work then that's the equivalent of £800/month unpaid salary before tax and NI.
|
Not seen any of the detail yet so mustn't have posted it until Friday. Not been online over weekend as my sister is in hospital.
Have thought about the time saving, and not having two cars, and a Mondeo but not a Subaru.
In practical terms Mrs IJ is unlikely to agree to losing a car (she drove the Octavia but wasn't happy doing it) so it may come down to:
1. Buy the Passat - no price from Lex yet despite their promise of a price in 24 hours.
2. Take a subsidised lease car from the new employer
It seems crazy having a second car for 6-8k miles a year but having considered our overall situation Mrs IJ's Fiesta only does about 6k a year but it gets her to work and gives her freedom when I am at work. I do intend to walk to work when I can but it will be nice to have a car for wet and windy days (I know that is what taxi's are for).
|
Some detail becoming clearer
Hire cars provided for business use so don't actually need a car for work.
Can't order a car on their scheme until I have been there 9 months.
Can check the prices on the scheme when I start but not before.
What is looking likely is time resignation so I have this can when we go abroad in May and look to buy a runaround or the Passat on leaving, Lex still not come up with a value despite the SLA being 24 hours and the question being asked 6 days ago.
|
>> Lex still not come up with a value despite the SLA being 24 hours and the question being
>> asked 6 days ago.
In the past I've heard anecdotal evidence that lease companies want more than a car is probably worth. I've never asked for a quote on mine. I thought Lex were pretty efficient - they manage our fleet. They are certainly better than the last company we used.
With my employer's scheme, you have the option to buy your lease car at the end of the lease. If you resigned the lease car goes back to a pool with my employer and a new joiner would probably get it. As an incentive to get a car in the fleet, they can get a car two grades higher without paying up for it.
One thought on resignation - I don't know your timeframes, etc or your contract (obviously). But if I resigned I might not be expected to work my notice and be paid in lieu of it. This would be the case if going to a competitor. And the car would be taken off me sooner rather than later. I'd check your situation. It obviously depends on what I was working on etc.
|
>>And the car would be taken off me sooner rather than late
Even if you receive your notice paid in lieu, the car would remain yours until your actual finish date. If they wished the car, phone, health insurance, subsidised lunches etc. to finish at your resignation date, then you should expect compensation for *ALL* your benefits up until the end date of your notice
The fact that you are not working your notice is not relevant, you are still entitled to all those benefits..
|
>> Even if you receive your notice paid in lieu, the car would remain yours until your actual finish date.
I'd personally get compensated for not having the car. As you say he might keep the car but I wanted him to know he might not actually have it. Compensation would cover a hire car for holidays but assuming he'd have the Passat for another 13 weeks or whatever the notice period is... it might be worth checking.
|
Not quite that simple, they would just ask me to work the notice, I would want to get out quicker but essentially car goes back when I leave.
Going to a competitor would mean gardening leave - i.e. they insist you don't work but pay you - happened last time and kept car and phone until end of gardening leave.
Turns out Lex had the wrong e-mail address and value isn't bad - apart from not taking account of termination fee - £8.7k for a three year old Passat.
However got the details from the company yesterday and the job details don't match what the agency told me so unlikely to be taking it. Wile I was expecting to take about a 5k hit the benefits described as included are not and the net effect is about another 5k so not really workable. More than a little pi**ed off.
|
|
Understandably so. Worth querying, I think. Do you have the agency's version of the package in writing? Mrs Beest's recent job offer was a complete porridge with all sorts of details (pension, leave) wrong or missing. She went back with a counter-proposal and got nearly everything she wanted. Sometimes you just have to make 'yes' the easiest answer.
|
>>Can't order a car on their scheme until I have been there 9 months.
>> the job details don't match what the agency told me
All sounds a bit iffy.
If you know the company to be respectable, perhaps its worth pursuing a revised offer. But its all a bit warning flag ish to me.
|
>> All sounds a bit iffy.
Nearly always is when a job or employment agency is involved.
|
>> >>Can't order a car on their scheme until I have been there 9 months.
>>
>> All sounds a bit iffy.
For a perk car (rather than one you need to drive you to clients) that sounds perfectly normal to me. They don't want to order you a brand new car, and have it sitting there if you/they decide the job isn't for you. Same as if you leave within a year of getting a new car there is an exit charge billed to you. Presumably he will get the cash car allowance for the 9 months.
>> >> the job details don't match what the agency told me
Par for the course with agents. They tell you what you want to hear in the hope you'll take it anyway...
>> As an incentive to get a car in the fleet, they can get a car two grades higher without paying up for it.
Yes... but don't forget you get the higher tax hit arising on the higher value car.
|
>> >>Can't order a car on their scheme until I have been there 9 months.
>> All sounds a bit iffy.
>
>For a perk car (rather than one you need to drive you to clients) that sounds perfectly
>normal to me
>
>They don't want to order you a brand new car, and have it sitting there if you/they
>decide the job isn't for you.
Having that rule would suggest that people joining the company and then leaving because they don't like it happens often enough to be an issue.
One wonders why there isn't a rule that says you must take over an existing car if one is available and then order your own in 9 months.
Do they assume that you will simply manage without a car for 9 months?
Their agency misquotes the terms, apparently quite significantly.
There's nothing entirely wrong, or entirely bad. But, for me, it'd be a warning sign that I either need to put the effort into understanding things more thoroughly or I need to walk away. And I'd walk away.
I've always felt that if three things pop up that suggest I might need to walk away, then I should walk without hesitation.
|
p.s.
>>Par for the course with agents.
Not one I've ever dealt with. And not one a sensible company would continue to deal with.
|
I don't really want to walk away from this one if we can get to an acceptable number, the company is reputable and I don't like the high volume agencies (this is one). Head hunters don't worry me as much because they work in a small market and depend on their reputation for future business.
I understand why they don't let you get a car for 9 months - it is just something I hadn't considered fully until the answer came back.
They are re-considering and I know what would make the job acceptable in terms of more salary.
Surprised myself this morning:
Octavia 1.4TSI Elegance at £22.5k lease around £250 pcm. inc. vat, insurance around £250 pa. (What car lease search and Go compare insurance search) that would do, 2.0 tdi would be nice but for less than 10k a year . . . . . . . .
|
Bigger surprise
the 2.0TDI is cheaper on lease than the 1.4TSI!
|
Not so surprising if you take resale value into account - the market likes diesel estates and hatches more than petrol ones.
If an Octavia might fit the bill for you, SWMBO drives a Fiesta, and wasn't happy driving an Octavia before, could a Roomster or Yeti work for you both?
My logic here is that a Roomster is more-or-less a Fabia with a squared off back on it, and Yetis seem rather short viewed from outside. And the Qashqai is similar size, yet has become an almost stereotypically "female" car.
OTOH, there's always the 3.6 litre H6 automatic Subaru Outback to tempt you :-)
|
A few surprises on the lease prices, must tell my son that his company is far too expensive.
Am taking the jump with approval from swmbo, just need to work out when I can get a car before I commit to dates. Speak to some lease co's tomorrow and if not look at 2 year old Octavias.
|
|
Get a stopgap Panda. We did that and it stopped a gap for 4 years. They're like that. Once you get over the embarrassment they're fab !
|
As Runfer quite correctly says, get a stop gap cheapo. Something you would not normally consider. When circumstances unexpectedly dictated that I could no longer be ' in trade', I bought a sub £1k Mazda 626. Practical 5 door, decent 2.0 petrol, leather, large leccy sunroof, decent wireless. Kept it 4 years and being mucho cheapo allowed me to recuperate in style (well, my style).
A different motoring experience to normal, allowing me to indulge in other pleasures.
|
You ought to be able to find a decent large estate/MPV/SUV* thingy for around £1000 if you're happy to buy based on condition rather than having a fixed vehicle in mind.
* Or, dare I say it WdB, maybe even a Subaru Legacy/Outback/Forester :-)
|
|
Tee hee. Or even a 12-year-old S60 D5, only slightly frayed at the edges.
|
>> Am taking the jump with approval from swmbo, just need to work out when I can get a car
>> before I commit to dates.
Good for you. But do you need a car - you said it was walkable. Get a car later if necessary. Weather is improving.
|
As far as the car is concerned we are 6 weeks off a trip down into the Alps and I wouldn't want to do that in a bangernomics car I had only just got and had no experience of. The reasons against a Panda are similar. Any second hand car would need to be one I could trust and that pushes up the price - there are reasons why people sell cars and many are because the car has problems.
SWMBO is struggling with the concept of not having two recent cars and would not even consider a year old car to reduce the depreciation. I have some time to work on her before we get the next one.
Forms submitted for a lease on a 2.0TDI Octavia Elegance hatch fully maintained at a price which makes me wonder why anyone buys new, or ever nearly new. Skoda dealer was trying to sell me a discounted Octavia Black (1.6tdi) last night when I dropped in to look and at the price he was asking I could lease the Elegance for 8 years and the difference in cost would probably be similar to the residual value of the Black at 8 years old without any of the concerns over the big bills out of warranty. Not a lot of choice on colour or extras but will live with that for this car, will be able to plan further ahead next time.
It is considerably less that my current employer charge for the 1.9 tdi elegance 7 years ago, granted it was based on 70k over 4 years but the gap is more than the excess mileage charge.
If the holiday was further off would have waited for a Scout at around £70 pcm less - yes LESS - (are Skoda updating the Scout?), that would more than pay for the bit of extra diesel it would use over a fwd.
At 70-80mpg I must take care that I use it enough that I don't get caught with summer diesel left in the tank when it gets cold.
|
Excellent, IJWS. The best leasing deals I've seen have made me wonder why anyone would buy, especially something potentially problematic like a DSG or - one on my list - a Golf GTE.
Did you go to a Skoda dealer, or to a leasing specialist for yours?
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 26 Mar 15 at 10:14
|
|
Went to a leasing co from the tab on the leasing for dummies thread, being very helpful.
|
|
Would you not be better off hire a car for the upcoming holiday and hold out for the Scout? Unless the Octavia is your first preference in any case...
|
>> >> Erm, what's a Scout?
>>
>> www.skoda.co.uk/models/octavia-scout/
It's a Skoda trim/model designation, there's a Roomster Scout too.
|
|
Ah, so I see. Something about Gromit's comment made me wonder if it was an alternative to an Octavia rather than a version of it.
|
>> Ah, so I see. Something about Gromit's comment made me wonder if it was an
>> alternative to an Octavia rather than a version of it.
Could be either?
|
My mistake - we don't have the Yeti or Roomster Scout versions in Ireland, and though a quick look at skoda.ie says there's an Octavia Scout available, I've never seen one.
Our CO2-based road tax deters buyers from anything other than sub 130g/km diesels, so Octavias and Yetis are invariably of the 1.6 litre Greenline variety.
|
>> >> >> Erm, what's a Scout?
>> >>
>> >> www.skoda.co.uk/models/octavia-scout/
>>
>> It's a Skoda trim/model designation, there's a Roomster Scout too.
>>
Bit more than a trim designation - it is the 4x4 version - sensible mans A4 allroad.
|
>> Bit more than a trim designation - it is the 4x4 version - sensible mans
>> A4 allroad.
Don't think the Roomster Scout is 4WD. More a case of 'ruggedised' with mats etc ans possibly different wheels/tyres. Same market segment as Escapade version of the Pug Partner.
www.skoda.co.uk/models/roomsterscout/default
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 26 Mar 15 at 12:54
|
It goes without saying, WdB, that the perfect solution is a Subaru. In this case an automatic Legacy estate.
But I was getting to that once the idea of "a" large petrol load lugger took hold...didn't want to be too obvious ;-)
Edit: or a late model 2.5 turbo petrol auto Forester if a Legacy is too big for SWMBO...
Last edited by: Gromit on Fri 13 Mar 15 at 21:38
|
All these posts about company cars, leased, hired, bought by the driver on the never-never or being taken back arbitrarily are very depressing. I like to know whether a car is mine or not. I'm funny like that.
In my corporate days, just a couple of years really, I used to have to go about the country sometimes to interview users of the company product (snouts and tobacco which have strong regional bias in their brand distribution). One of the things much studied was pack design, but 'taste tests' were sometimes done using plain unlabelled packs. Current government plans to impose plainer packs on the tobacco industry would have been grist to my mill.
When that happened the company would sometimes lend me a car. It was pretty painless: one went to a nearby underground garage where a mechanic would hand one the keys and documentation and indicate the jalopy in question.
The cars were all newish, low-mileage examples, impeccably clean inside and out, with full tanks and newly serviced engines. The ones I remember were a Hillman Super Minx, an Austin 1100 and an Austin 1800.
|
|
Sounds very like the system that will apply if they send me anywhere.
|
Finished old job on Friday, new job Monday.
Octavia delivered Friday - very impressive machine. Actually faster 0-60 on paper than the 1.8T Passat I had 10 years ago, not that I will be doing it that quickly very often - if at all.
All my friends are jealous of the commute.
|
Good news. I hope the changed in job goes well.
My commute is just about acceptable. I mostly work from home these days.
|
Volkswagen Passat - New Job, new car? - Mike H
