Motoring Discussion > BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d
Thread Author: DP Replies: 72

 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - DP
So, it's about time for my F30 to go back to the lease company, and I thought it might useful to share my thoughts after three years and 53,000 miles with this car.

This was a company provided car, delivered on 8th March 2012 with 11 miles on the clock. In Mineral Grey, it looked subtle and understated, and at the time, the F30 was quite a rare sight on the road. I'd had two E90s over the previous six months, and stepping into the F30, a few things were immediately apparent. The first was a marked step-up in interior ambience, with a lighter, airier feel compared to the E90's rather austere, plain black plastics. The second was a visible increase in rear legroom, and this was something the kids confirmed the first time they went in it.

In other respects, it had a very similar initial feel to the older car. You sit low, with a lovely sense of being sat down "in" the car. The gear lever is short and stubby, and has a nice feel to it, and small-ish 3 spoke wheel falls exactly where you would want it to. The pedals, including the trademark floor hinged throttle, are also nicely laid out in front. Driving position is a BMW forte, and they consistently nail it, in stark contrast to Audi in my experience. The pedal position in the manual A4 I tried before choosing this was scarcely believable in a modern car.

The traditional four dial BMW instruments are carried over, and are a model of clarity and simplicity that I'm glad BMW have stuck with. Minor controls are also well laid out, with intuitive climate control, and the brilliant i-Drive system, which despite no previous acquaintance, I was navigating by pure touch within 24 hrs of picking the car up. It works very well indeed.

Apart from better looking materials in the cabin, the spec is pretty good too, despite this being a bog standard car with no options (other than metallic). The days of BMWs being sparsely equipped are long gone, this standard car coming with dual zone climate, one of the best Bluetooth phone integrations I've come across, cruise control, keyless start, iDrive with USB audio input, etc etc. Apple fans will be annoyed at having to pay extra for proper iPod integration (a £6 Chinese eBay cable will suffice if you need it), and the relegation of heated mirrors to the options list is a bit of a joke on a £30k car, but neither of these were a major concern. The radio is moderately rubbish though in terms of both reception and sound quality.

I ran the car in carefully, allowing the odd burst of hard acceleration, but keeping revs down until the 1,000 mile point. The engine impressed from day one. Down-rated from 181 to 163PS in this EfficientDynamics version, but with the same 280lb/ft of torque, the 2.0 BMW diesel is frankly brilliant, and endows the car with a surprising turn of pace going through the gears. The way it pulls from 1500-4200 RPM is addictive, and in 3rd and 4th gears will haul you up to and beyond the national speed limit with ridiculous ease. In sixth at 70 mph it's pulling a faintly ridiculous 1800 RPM, but thanks to that 280 lb/ft
slug of torque being available from just 1750 RPM, overtaking or pulling up long inclines is a simple matter of flexing the right foot. It's gruff with revs, but delivers so much low down and in the middle, that it doesn't really matter.

My first "attack run" on a decent road came as I magically found myself in the middle of nowhere in Norfolk as the car passed 1,000 miles. And it was disappointing if I'm being honest. The steering is odd. It's beautifully weighted, particularly in "Sport" mode, and very quick, but it is completely dead in terms of feel. There is no sense of road surface or grip level, which you got in spades with the E90. Blame electric PAS I guess. More irritating is the damping which is overly soft unless you fork out for Adaptive Suspension. The standard setup does make for a decent ride in day to day driving, but it floats and bucks when pressing on. It has to be said, the balance of the car in corners is lovely, with understeer being virtually non-existent, but the soft springs and resulting body roll make it all feel a bit of a chore.

When you consider the lazy engine and "cruiser" chassis, you start to understand the car, and it makes a lot more sense. Despite the "Ultimate Driving Machine" marketing guff, it's not like a BMW of old where it wants you to thrash it. It's a long legged cruiser. The whole car works much better when you stop trying to make it behave 'sportingly'. Drive it at "eight tenths", keep the engine between 1500 and 3000 RPM and it's a heck of a ground coverer. The engine punches hard enough to trouble the traction control out of second gear corners in the bone dry, and the car flows very nicely over the quicker stuff. And as another illustration of the way the marketeers seem to be asking a decent car to be something it isn't, there's the rev counter. The ludicrous 5400 RPM redline might look "sporty", but it is at least 1,000 higher than the engine is comfortable at, and I reckon at least 500 higher than it's even capable of.

Early reliability was iffy, but settled as the car aged. The wipers and stop/start went wrong just a few weeks in, and this required replacement under warranty of the body control module, which turned out to be on six week back order from the factory. Internet research (and the back order situation) suggests this was a very common issue on early cars. Given little choice, I lived with the issue for six weeks, only to have the reprogramming of the new unit go wrong, and the car be laid up for two days while it was fixed. There's also something not quite right on this car with the headlight wiring or the module that controls it. Throughout my tenure I have seen various intermittent warnings relating to the lights, including false reports of bulb failures, and on a couple of occasions, headlamp levelling system failures.

It would have been a cheap car to run, even if I had been paying the bills. Getting it much under 50 mpg is impossible, even being deliberately unkind to it. I'm currently seeing 58 mpg average over the past few tanks, now I'm working flexitime and avoiding the worst of the traffic. It's had two oil changes (19k and 37k) with the third being predicted at 56k (after the car goes back). It's light on tyres too. The original rears were down to the markers at 38k, and the fronts were replaced at 45k. Otherwise, it had a set of front pads and discs at the second service, one sidelight bulb replaced, and that has literally been it as far as routine maintenance goes. It still drives well today, and pulls like a train, although a few interior creaks and rattles have started to creep in, particularly around the drivers door / B-pillar area crept in. I drove a 19k example the other day and it feels noticeably tighter.

It's easy to be hard on the quality and the niggles, but it's when I stop and think about what we have done in this car that I can't help but be impressed. It's sat on the M3 every day in horrific traffic, it's seen an indicated 140 mph, four-up on the Autobahn in southern Germany, it took four of us and two weeks worth of luggage across the Alps without breaking a sweat. I've never put oil in it (the electronic "dipstick" has never moved off MAX), and apart from screenwash and tyre pressures, it's never needed any kind of attention from me between services.

The car unfortunately missed its final trip to Italy last August due to the tyre fitters breaking the locking nut key when changing the front tyres. A multitronic Audi A4 took over the role admirably, but the truth is the BMW should really have almost another 3k on it, and perhaps another service in my hands. Cack-handed tyre fitters aside, it's never let us down, and we've driven it for 12 hour stretches and got out fresh and relaxed. I like the car. So much so that I've ordered another, this time a Touring with the ZF 8 speed automatic transmission, and a couple of other goodies lacking on the current car, which will turn up in the next week or two.

Will post some pics of it when I've got around to cleaning it! :-) Sorry, this got a bit long-winded. Hope it's of interest.

Cheers
DP
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Avant
Really interesting, DP: running reports are one of the best things that forums like this do, and I'm always trying to encourage it on the HJ forum as well.

The implication is that you think the 320d would have gone on for another three years and 50,000 miles, and that's where it's of particular interest to me. Am I right to infer that?

6 out of the last 7 cars have been from one or other of the VAG makes, and all have been excellent - BUT I haven't kept any of them for more than three years. In semi-retirement I can probably manage one more new car, but will probably have to keep that long-term.

There are too many stories of VAG cars failing expensively as they age: on the other hand I bought a seven-year-old, 70,000 mile BMW Z3 as a fun car and kept it for five years and another 15,000 miles, with no problems at all. It struck me as a true quality product.

So although I love my Octavia vRS, a 2-series Active Tourer (silly name but an impressive car) will be on the short-list next year.
Last edited by: Avant on Mon 2 Mar 15 at 15:33
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Falkirk Bairn
55K miles and only 2 changes of oil in nearly 3 years.

The next owner will undoubtedly pay the penalty.

My son's X5 is 6 months old and had the recommended oil change at 10,000 miles - BMW (USA) have a different opinion on oil changes than BMW(UK)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Old Navy
UK service schedules are designed to attract fleet managers. As long as the car is relatively fault free for the warranty and cheap to maintain for three years no one except the next owner cares what happens next.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
The next owner will undoubtedly pay the penalty.

Really? Funny how when the topic is motorway speed limits it's 'but cars and brakes have improved enormously since the 70 limit was introduced', but we can't believe the same might be true of engines and lubricants. Where are the scrapyards full of engines destroyed by their 'long life' service regimen?

As for Americans, half of them still believe in leaf springs and sky fairies. They'd have sent a manned mission to Mars by now but there weren't enough Speedy Lubes along the way.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Zero
>> The next owner will undoubtedly pay the penalty.
>>
>> Really?

Yes really - It will cook its turbo, just like they nearly always do, for the next owner.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
Evidence? (And not just 'it happened to this bloke I know'.)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Old Navy
I thought one of an oils functions was to keep combustion by products in suspension. I don't give a stuff how good a lubricant it is, when it is fully loaded with crap it needs to be changed. I accept that some engines run cleaner these days but the principal still applies.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 2 Mar 15 at 17:16
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Armel Coussine
Turbos run in the exhaust downpipe so are very hot, sometimes red hot or nearly so. They also turn very fast and their lubrication is a bit precarious. Seems to me it would be asking for trouble to run any turbocharged car using old, depleted, polluted, dirty engine oil. One would have thought, the best silicone multigrade stuff, changed fairly religiously.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Zero
Its happened to several blokes I know. A lot of blokes I know.

about 80k usually.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
But why, assuming the oil was changed at all before Z's blokes suffered their failures, did it not happen in the first three years when the car was running on 'old, dirty' oil? If we accept what AC says about the effect of location and temperature, the 'dirty' oil was just as likely then to be carrying particles that could destroy the turbo, and yet it magically didn't. It waits till the unwary second owner comes along, thinks it's a four-year-old car so it's not worth the expensive oil. Turbo fails - can't have been me, I've changed the oil every week; must have been that damned please-the-fleets (which don't exist in most European markets) servicing plan.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
Bloke I know ( me as it happens ) has a car which "asks" for a service about every 15,500 miles. And when it asks it gets one. 120,000 miles so far with no problems. My old Mondy got serviced twice a year or approximately every 17,000. It went for 200,000 miles with no problems. I bought another car with 85,000 on the clock at only 18 months old but which had had no previous servicing at all ( it was very cheap as a result ) I ran that for another 40,000 again with no problems but I did in fairness get it serviced while I had it.

 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Armel Coussine
>> 'dirty' oil was just as likely then to be carrying particles that could destroy the turbo, and yet it magically didn't. It waits till the unwary second owner comes along,

Oil gets polluted in a few thousand miles with unburned fuel, metal particles from cylinder and bearing wear and carbon particles from combustion blowing past pistons, valve seals and so on. The fuel pollution in particular reduces the 'lubricity' of the oil making metal-to-metal contact more frequent, and all those particles may soon start to accentuate wear.

But the worst thing must be oil getting cooked in turbo bearings cooling down after a hot run and turning to lacquer or whatever they call it. Narrows the oilways just where they don't need narrowing, to the point of eventual bearing faiilure, horrible noises and twisted turbo vanes shredded into the catalyser (bad cess to it), followed by a king's ransom in new components and fettling or the scrapyard.

Or so I anxiously imagine.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
It's very easy to let one's imagination lead to increases in anxiety.

;-)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
Or so I anxiously imagine.

Exactly: imagine. Most of what you describe is for the oil filter to remove. Unburned diesel in the oil? Mazdas, perhaps, but not most others if they're working properly. And diesel and modern low-pressure petrol turbos don't run at the kind of oil-cooking temperatures HJ liked to frighten us with in the old days. (Even at motorway speeds: I found an old post today in which Number Cruncher explained that his Astra required 21kW to maintain 70mph, about a third of its maximum output. At a cruise, the turbo is barely working.)

Modern manufacturing techniques mean engines don't have to wear themselves in any more because the parts are the right size to start with. Fuel injection with electronic control gets the mixture right, so the combustion is cleaner. I'm not suggesting the pollution effects you describe don't happen at all, just that they happen at a much slower rate, and consequently the oil can be made to last longer.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - No FM2R
>>engines don't have to wear themselves in any more because the parts are the right size to start wit

Absolutely. And yet people still worry excessively about it.

Not only does a "bad" running in not harm the engine like it used to, a "good" running in doesn't help it like it used to.

You've only to compare the piston/bore manufacturing process of the 60s/70s with those of today; there are several more decimal points involved these days.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - rtj70
>> I found an old post today in which Number Cruncher explained that his Astra required 21kW to
>> maintain 70mph, about a third of its maximum output. At a cruise, the turbo is barely working.

At a steady cruise with light throttle load, my 1.4 petrol turbo is only firing two of the four cylinders. Not that you'd notice. More likely to maintain this state on cruise control. I believe air in the two shutdown cylinders act as a spring.

>> Not only does a "bad" running in not harm the engine like it used to, a "good" running in
>> doesn't help it like it used to.

Some cars end up needing oil topped up forever if you're too gentle when the car is run in.

As for contaminated oil - my Passat CC diesel went back with about 23,000 miles on it after 3 years and a lot of local trips. So it had one service in all that time! The Audi A3 I now have in on long service intervals too - the countdown for the service and oil change are on slightly different timings. So after 5 months the first check is still more than 600 days away. Might be more than that to be honest!
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - rtj70
Remembered to check what the service display currently says:

Oil change due in 13600 miles or 538 days.
Next inspection due in 15200 miles or 584 days.

I've had the car since 9th October so 145 days. So inspection service still set for 2 years or about 19000 miles (approx). But the car is starting to say an oil change is needed sooner. I do quite a few short journeys as well as longer ones.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 3 Mar 15 at 19:00
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Fursty Ferret
>> Some cars end up needing oil topped up forever if you're too gentle when the
>> car is run in.
>>

Completely agree. Look at Rattle's Panda.

The Insignia has been thrashed from the moment I bought it and still returns upwards of 70 mpg on a long run. Incidentally, it gets serviced when it asks for it which so far has been every year or 15,000 miles.

Vauxhall slap a lifetime* warranty on them so it strikes me as unlikely that this interval would have any negative consequences on engine life.

* Although I accept that since it's first owner only, they could be gambling on fleet owners ditching them after 3 years.

** And given the average age of the Vauxhall buyer, "lifetime" might not refer to the car... ;-)
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Mon 16 Mar 15 at 18:52
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - VxFan
>> Vauxhall slap a lifetime* warranty on them
>> * Although I accept that since it's first owner only,

Not any more. Back to 3 yrs now (Owners of cars with lifetime warranties will still be covered)

www.whatcar.com/car-news/vauxhall-drops-lifetime-warranty/1315228
www.autoexpress.co.uk/vauxhall/88802/vauxhall-abandons-its-lifetime-warranty-on-new-cars
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - mikeyb

>> Completely agree. Look at Rattle's Panda.
>>
>> The Insignia has been thrashed from the moment I bought it and still returns upwards
>> of 70 mpg on a long run. Incidentally, it gets serviced when it asks for
>> it which so far has been every year or 15,000 miles.
>>

The Sharan hasn't been thrashed, but its not been babied either - over half its miles have been done under Mrs B's slightly heavy right foot, and over 110K I don't remember ever topping up the oil between services
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
Isn't it just a sign that modern engines are better designed and assembled? Anecdotal evidence proves nothing, but does anyone here regularly top up with oil? I never have: going right back to my 1989 Ford 1.3, a Vauxhall, two Saabs, Volvo, Toyota and Mercedes, none has ever required or received oil, and I've never even bought any. With engines that do - some cite the VW PDs - isn't it more probably the design of the engine than how it was run in?
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - rtj70
I've not had to top up any petrol or diesel car since I ran my own. First company car was a 1995 Astra in 1996. The only car that really needed oil checks was the Mazda6 where oil levels went up!
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Alastairw
The only car I have ever had to top up oil on was a 1.1 Fiesta. Typically a pint every 1000 miles, which was mostly coming out of the bottom, but was also being burnt judging by the blue smoke it made. I took the view that at least most of the oil was fresh.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - DP
The BMW never moved off MAX on its new fangled electronic oil level readout thing. There was no actual dipstick to verify this.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - mikeyb
- some cite the VW PDs - isn't it more probably the design
>> of the engine than how it was run in?
>>

Our Sharan is a 130 PD so not sure its common to the design
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Zero
>> Or so I anxiously imagine.
>>
>> Exactly: imagine. Most of what you describe is for the oil filter to remove.

SO why does your oil in your diesel engine go very black in less than 100 miles?


Hmmmm?
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
SO why does your oil in your diesel engine go very black in less than 100 miles?
You think I should change my oil every 100 miles?

Look at it the other way: my Volvo's oil looks much the same 100 miles after a change as it does 11,800 miles or 51 weeks later as it's about to be changed again. So whatever was in the oil has been there all the time. It's had 12 years and 140,000 miles of this, and it's still on its original turbo, so how harmful can the black stuff be?
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Zero
>> SO why does your oil in your diesel engine go very black in less than
>> 100 miles?

>> You think I should change my oil every 100 miles?

No I didn't say that did I, I was merely asking why you think it has gone black.

However, I will tell you why, its gone black because it has suspended particulates in it, particulates that have not been removed by the filter. The oil is doing one of its jobs, that of cleaning up the products of combustion and putting them in suspension.

The filter is not doing quite doing as good a job as you think it should. Nor can it for it would block up and not do any job at all.

Last edited by: Zero on Mon 2 Mar 15 at 19:43
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Zero

>> Look at it the other way: my Volvo's oil looks much the same 100 miles
>> after a change as it does 11,800 miles or 51 weeks later as it's about
>> to be changed again. So whatever was in the oil has been there all the
>> time. It's had 12 years and 140,000 miles of this, and it's still on its
>> original turbo, so how harmful can the black stuff be?

I was merely reaffirming that the oils job is to carry stuff in suspension, and I can tell you that the 11,000 miles black is much blacker than the 100 miles black.

So do tell, why haven't you changed your oil every 25k miles? Hmmmm?


Probably why your turbo hasn't gone bang.


Was there anything else?
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
Possibly. But I stuck to the engine maker's recommendation, and nothing here leads me to suppose that if that recommendation had been 25,000km, like Humph's MB and mine, or even 25,000 miles it wouldn't have lasted just as well. The long-interval regimens are based on engine management detecting the kind of steady-speed, low-stress usage under which engines are likely to burn more cleanly and blacken their oil more slowly. I imagine a track-day car, or one used as an inner-city minicab, would have very different requirements, but the ECU would detect the usage and recommend accordingly.

In some cases, 12,000 miles or once a year (my car has had both, at different stages of its career) may not be often enough, but it's a safe-side compromise that covers most cases well enough. But it's not the only way to manage an engine, of you've got the engineering and the technology.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - rtj70
>> SO why does your oil in your diesel engine go very black in less than 100 miles?

Soot. But I think the oil will usually be black before you've got home with the car after it was serviced.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - legacylad
My 330 hasn't cooked its turbo yet. And it's ten years old.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Mike H
>> My 330 hasn't cooked its turbo yet. And it's ten years old.
>>
Nor has my Saab at 223,000 miles and 11.5 years old. But I have changed the oil & filter every 6000 miles since I bought it at 71,000 miles 8 years ago.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Bill Payer
>> - BMW (USA) have a different opinion on oil changes than BMW(UK)
>>

Their are campaigns running in the US to try and dissuade people from still changing their oil every 3000 miles.

When Mercedes introduced long interval servicing in the US there was much angst amongst owners. It's normal in the US for servicing to be included for the first 4 years, and MB dealers had to offer to do free intermediate oil changes to placate buyers.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - BrianByPass

>> When Mercedes introduced long interval servicing in the US there was much angst
>>

BMW in US used to specify 15,000 mile intervals. They then changed it to 10,000 miles.
f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868291

BMW turbo failures which were common a few years ago used to be blamed on switching hot engines off without allowing a "simmer" down period. Many cars now have Stop-Start systems, but with modern synthetic oils and better cooling of turbos, carbonised-oil in turbo bearings issue has disappeared. I believe the F30 has a water cooled turbo.
f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=809570

Incidentally here is an oil analysis of of a Honda that had the oil in it for 23,780 miles
www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3650303/1
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Bill Payer
Tyre life, especially the rears, implies the car has been driven pretty gently. So suprising it needed new pads & discs - did they show as worn, or is that the dealer being "cautious" as they wouldn't last to the next service?
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Armel Coussine
I posted something pernickety about blocked oilways resulting from careless use amounting to abuse, hardly surprising though given Mr Toad's well-known intellectual attainments.

It's vanished.

Is something sinister going on?
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Armel Coussine
God how I hate the pink stripe of doom.

Look, C4P authorities or prefects, can't something be done about this savage censorship of anything a couple of minutes old? Can't the time limit be quadrupled or something? Must we have hurried ill-considered gibberish instead of weighty, worthy, boring, well-cast prose?
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
I posted something pernickety...

...at 1754 and it's still there. Pass the corkscrew, AC, there's a good chap. The rest of us have catching up to do.
};---)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Avant
This thread would be of more general interest if the comments were on the car, rather than just how often the oil should be changed.

I'm with WdB and Runfer on this - I wouldn't presume to know better than the manufacturers. Their reputation depends partly on older cars as well as those in their first three years. Most anyway stipulate a maximum period - one or two years - between services which takes care of care with low annual mileages. I'd expect that DP's BMW, like Runfer's Mercedes, told him itself when a service was due.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Old Navy
Even my lowly Yaris diesel has an oil quality detector in the sump which activates a warning light if an oil change is required.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 2 Mar 15 at 19:08
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Zero
>> This thread would be of more general interest if the comments were on the car,
>> rather than just how often the oil should be changed.

He says and then goes on about when the oil should be changed!


 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
I would definitely look at a 3 series Touring if I didn't need a larger loadspace. I had a couple of 3s back along and indeed a couple of 5s. All delightful things to drive. The modern ones are undoubtedly ( or hopefully ) even better. I'm quite old now though so maybe Mercs are more my demographic !

;-)

 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Old Navy
>> I'm quite old now though so maybe Mercs are more my demographic !
>>
>> ;-)

Need the headroom for your trilby ? :)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
Fedora please !
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
And I'll look at 320[interchangeable lower-case letter] coupés if a C70 doesn't float my midlife-crisis boat.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
Coupés, though, y'know, bit dodgy in some ways. Like tight shirts, bit unnecessary if you know what I mean?
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
Yes, Humph, and unnecessary is the point. Can't be Mr Sensible Shoes all my life, can I?

(Actually the S60 was a bit of a walk on the wild side, being a saloon and all, at a time when we had one small person and were expecting another. Not the most practical but so much nicer than anything else within budget. Anyway, that was a long time ago.)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
You so need a Westfield !

People just don't understand until they've tried it. If a BMW coupe is a small bottle of slightly stronger than average beer, then a Westfield is a pint of Absinthe.

;-)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - legacylad
Did I ever mention a ran a new Mk1 Elise as my daily runner for three years after ex number1. That was back in '97 I think. Not sure I could clamber in and out as easily these days, but would deffo give a Westfield or 7 a try given the readies. And time to use one. Waaaaaay more fun than a boring old 330.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - DP
Thanks all for the comments

Avant - I have no reason to think the car won't do another 50k / 3 yrs without major incident. I would expect some front suspension rebushing, and perhaps a clutch / DMF in that time. The judder on cold would worry me if I were test driving it, although it's fair to say it's done it pretty much from new and it hasn't got worse. Also, if a selling dealer pulled away a couple of times, then parked the car back up, it wouldn't show the problem anyway.

The oil change interval / turbo life question is a good one. If it were my car, I would give serious consideration to getting the oil dropped and renewed at mid-interval, but it's not and I have to stick to the lease company recommendations. I have no financial stake in the car, so it makes no sense at all to spend my own time and money on additional work. That said, the car does continuously monitor the conductivity of the engine oil, and this is fed into the logic that determines the service requirement, so there is some science behind it as well. A colleague has an identical car that spends a lot of time in Central London, and that asked for an oil change at 12k. It doesn't always follow that they do big miles between services. There have also been a raft of engineering changes to the N47 engine over the past 5 years. This generation of the engine is much improved over the one that used to lunch timing chains and turbos for fun.

Bill Payer - the car isn't driven particularly gently, but I think a lot of the tyre life can be put down a high proportion of the miles being done on the motorway, and the Michelin Energy tyres the car came with being made of the hardest compound ever devised by man! The rears were down to the wear markers when they were replaced. The fronts were bald on the outer edges, but still had over 2mm in the middle.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - legacylad
A rep who calls where I work is on his second 320d. He averages 55/60k a year, his company choose to buy them outright and keep them four years. I don't understand either! Currently in year 3 with 140k on the clock already and after recently looking at the MB & Audi alternatives tells me he will be choosing another 320d.
Not had a single problem with either.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - legacylad
Forgot to say he pays his own fuel, but gets mileage, and makes a half decent profit on it. I have no idea of the figures, but think his multi national employer pay all the servicing hills.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - DP
I have no doubt if I drove it carefully, and didn't spend too much time in traffic, I could average a genuine 60 mpg. they are stupidly frugal.


This was the door-to-door economy reported the computer for a gentle commute last year in near-perfect traffic conditions. Driving to the gearchange indicator in ECO PRO mode, and obeying all speed limits to the letter.

tinyurl.com/ne6dmgo

The computer is about 10% optimistic, so I make that a genuine 70 mpg.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Boxsterboy
>> I have no doubt if I drove it carefully, and didn't spend too much time
>> in traffic, I could average a genuine 60 mpg. they are stupidly frugal.
>>

I always think a good test of frugality for a decent length trip (over 1 hour) is to add the average mph and the average mpg. Over 100 is average for a car (I can do that in the Transporter), but 120 or more is good economy.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - ToMoCo
>>
>> I always think a good test of frugality for a decent length trip (over 1
>> hour) is to add the average mph and the average mpg. Over 100 is average
>> for a car (I can do that in the Transporter), but 120 or more is
>> good economy.
>>

So that's where I'm going wrong! At an average 70 mph I must be scoring around 100... Just need to get that average speed up closer to 120. :-)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Boxsterboy

>> So that's where I'm going wrong! At an average 70 mph I must be scoring
>> around 100... Just need to get that average speed up closer to 120. :-)
>>

It is actually quite hard to achieve an average speed of 70 mph on a whole journey. The slow bits before you get on the motorway play havoc with the overall average speed.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Armel Coussine
>> The slow bits before you get on the motorway play havoc with the overall average speed.

They sure do. To average 50mph cross country in good, traffic-free conditions you have to go like the clappers.

To average 70 on a motorway you have to exceed the speed limit systematically by the biggest margin you can manage.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - PeterS
A quick google shows that leasing a 320d for 50k miles a year (they wont quote for 60k miles, or a longer term) is £655 a month excluding VAT and service. That almost £8k a year, or just under £24k for 3. I bet you can buy one discounted , new for around that so for such a high mileage leasing's probably not financially viable option

www.nationwidevehiclecontracts.co.uk/BMW_3_Series_Saloon_F30-320d_EfficientDynamics_Business-51273-quote.htm
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - The Melting Snowman
They do seem to be popular, there aren't many choices if you want RWD. I'm looking forward to the new Jaguar XE, perhaps the first real competitor for the 3 series for a long time. I will buy outright though, leasing doesn't make sense in my situation.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - legacylad
Thanks PeterS
That explains why the multi national he works for buy 'in bulk' and run for 4 years. Then dispose of with 200k+ on the clock. Cheaper than leasing then.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
We do the same, we have fewer than 10 company cars but most of them do large annual mileages. Looked at in the cold light of day, it seems to work best buying them outright at the best price we can, ex-demonstrators etc a few months old and running them to 150,000-200,000.

Only recent ones which gave us any real concern were a couple fitted with DSG boxes, both failing in use.

On our own straw poll the Mercs and Fords seem to take the miles better than the VWs, Audis and the Vauxhalls.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - DP
>> Only recent ones which gave us any real concern were a couple fitted with DSG
>> boxes, both failing in use.

Had a good chat with our fleet manager yesterday. 4 of the 86 DSG VWs on our fleet are currently off the road with transmission problems. He says the issue is not just the failure rate, but the fact dealers seem incapable of fixing them quickly, meaning the cars are out of service for weeks at a time.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
We've not got any BMWs at present, no objection at all to them but the 3s are too small ( luggage space) and the 5 Tourings are smaller in that department than the equivalent E Class. We did though have an X5 a while back which proved sturdy and probably a nicer drive than the ML which replaced it.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - DP
Boot size is quite decent for the type of car, but as with most saloons, the aperture is the limiting factor for getting bulky items in. Also folding rear seats are a cost option, which is a bit cheeky.

We did manage to get 10 days holiday luggage and assorted paraphernalia for a family of four in, and there was enough room (just) for some bargain price wine and beer on the way home. Individual large items are often a no-no though simply because they won't fit through the opening. Looking forward to getting the Touring.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
3 Tourings are nice cars. A friend had one and his two Beagles ate the inside in an astonishingly short time while he ( ironically enough ) nipped in to a corner shop to pick up a packet of fags.

He's given up smoking now, couldn't afford it once he'd paid for new seats !
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - commerdriver
>> Boot size is quite decent for the type of car, but as with most saloons,
>> the aperture is the limiting factor for getting bulky items in.
>>
for anyone considering 3 series it is also worth looking at the 5 door hatch I tested one at last change time and was very impressed then decided I didn't want a car that size so went for the Golf
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - Runfer D'Hills
When the Alfa 159 first came out, I really really wanted one. I went as far as arranging and taking a test drive on the 2.4 D version and absolutely loved it. Then I opened the boot to find that it was an awkward shape and had a really restricted access. The sport wagon ( estate ) hadn't been released at that time and by the time it had the feeling had worn off.

I do still feel that I ought not to complete my driving career without having had at least one Alfa though. Breras are hand bitingly pretty but even at a mundanely average shape and very ordinary 6' 0" I couldn't comfortably fit in one.

 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - DP
>> I do still feel that I ought not to complete my driving career without having
>> had at least one Alfa though. Breras are hand bitingly pretty but even at a
>> mundanely average shape and very ordinary 6' 0" I couldn't comfortably fit in one.

I've got a third share in an old 156 V6 that we bought on eBay 2 years ago for £300 needing a raft of work. We did the work, but the vague plans of banger rallies and track days remained just that. The MOT expired a year ago and it's done nothing since.

I'm 6'1 and fit comfortably in a 156. Perhaps go older! :-)
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - WillDeBeest
I think you'd have been even more disappointed with the boot of the Sportwagon, Humph, given that it looks like an estate car. It isn't: my 159 fail-to-fit experience was in one, and applied both to me in the front and to my modest luggage in the back.
 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - DP
Well, she's gone. Was picked up on Wednesday last week, and the replacement delivered. Had it MOT'd on Tuesday by the BMW dealer which it went through with no advisories. They washed and valeted it as well which saved me a job. Here's the last set of pictures.

Front view.

i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv196/DP_75/20150310_175723_zpsxrubbyig.jpg


Rear view

i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv196/DP_75/20150310_175735_zps4xoay03o.jpg


Interior

i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv196/DP_75/20150310_175647_zpsvlghfot1.jpg


Instrument panel

i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv196/DP_75/20150310_175541_zpshycueqk8.jpg


Engine compartment:

i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv196/DP_75/20150311_092042_zpsrg8ekj2i.jpg


Wore its miles well I thought, especially as it was never washed, polished and mollycoddled every weekend as many would be. Also had two young kids and a dog in and out of it quite frequently.

Will post impressions of the new car separately, but suffice to say I'm very glad I chose it so far.



 BMW - Thoughts on 3 years (almost) with an F30 320d - MD
On the subject of Oil. A friend runs a large transport business from the Spanner end. He doubted long life oils. He drained a lorry and sent a sample away to a Lab' for analysis at 100K. They told him to 'put it back in'. Who knows.
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