***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 2 *****
Can Labour pay for university fee cut?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30976509
....cutting maximum university fees for students by a third, from £9,000 to £6,000.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Mar 15 at 10:33
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No one gives a toss henry.
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At a quick scan Pesto answers the question.
Answer - Maybe.
The Lad will graduate in summer 16 with debts of £27k for tuition and quite a bit more for maintenance.
Nobody, whether Henry, Me, Pesto or The Lad himself has much idea whether he'll ever pay any or all off never mind in what profile.
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>>The Lad will graduate in summer 16 with debts of £27k for tuition and quite a bit more for maintenance.
I am so glad we avoided the costs of initial degrees -3 years for son
Six years for daughter. Plus an elective to the south seas. She cleverly chose what subject and where which resulted in all air fares and ALL other costs paid by donations from various charities etc)
Three and a half years DPhil also generously funded by a charity.
We did fund them so they did not have to work. We wanted them to work hard and play hard and that is what they both did and more.
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>> No one gives a toss henry.
>>
You may be right but I suspect the thread will grow quite quickly.
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Read the Greens manifesto .. and after you have finished laughing - or crying dpending on your world view - you will not want to read any more election literature.
I found it hilarious.
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Stay in the UK and spend 50 grand servicing your debts built up learning to be a Doc or zoooom off to Oz?
hmmm - not the brightest move by the Govt.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 25 Jan 15 at 20:44
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My eldest is off to the Antipodes for her elective this coming summer. No help from charities save for the bank of dad. I guess it is going to cost over £5k.
She will end up with loans of nearly £70k after 5 years plus interest at above inflation rates. My mortgage was never near that amount and I find it stunning. I would not be surprised if she and others in her year pack up and go somewhere where the loan won't follow.
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>> Read the Greens manifesto .. and after you have finished laughing - or crying dpending
>> on your world view - you will not want to read any more election literature.
>>
>> I found it hilarious.
>>
Brings to mind "The longest suicide note in history". It reads like it was written by a load of idealistic fourteen year olds in the common room.
As for tuition fees, surely the number of youngsters attending university now is ridiculously high? Some of the ones who tell me they are "Off to uni" seem remarkably thick.
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Show me one that can manage to get up in the morning and I might start to take an interest.
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Thankfully my boy picked a cheap uni, so fees are only £6k per year. And he gets a bursary, by virtue of ex wives poverty. If he does masters he will still have debts of £24k at graduation, but I like to think he will earn enough to pay that off.
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>> Read the Greens manifesto .. and after you have finished laughing - or crying dpending
>> on your world view - you will not want to read any more election literature.
>>
>> I found it hilarious.
>>
I suspect that the party most worried by the Greens manifesto will be the Monster Raving Loonies. It makes theirs look positively mainstream by comparison.
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The Greens, like the ScotNats, are objectively reactionary or right wing. Both get most votes from Labour which is looking sad still.
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>> From Breitbart, London - so NOT left wing:-
No Sh..... Sherlock.
We know Breitbart is the vehicle for those of your political leanings so no surprises that it takes a decontextualised report from the Telegraph and goes five steps further.
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"We know Breitbart is the vehicle for those of your political leanings"
And the Grauniad is.........
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>> And the Grauniad is.........
My point was about Roger's insistence that Breitbart is not left wing. As if there were ever any question.....
Guardian is what it is and always was; a liberal/left newspaper
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>> From Breitbart, London
Witter witter witter.... what a load of old whassername... far right ideologues mistaking finicky listing of unimportant detail for powerful rationality... funny though.
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Labour's Ed Miliband to pledge longer social care visits
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30994930
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I guess it must be true because Milliband pledged the same in May 2014 and October 2013, so hardly fresh of the press.
In fact, hasn't this been seen as an issue for years, including by the UKHCA in 2007 and again in 2010?
Of course its a dumb ass restriction. But the way these politicians bandy stuff around perpetually shocked about the behaviour of another party, and then the whole thing being sucked up by the gullible electorate drives me to distraction.
How about if we ask Milliband, given that he's so shocked and outraged, to sign a piece of paper that says if he gets in power and does not change this policy within 6 months he will resign?
In fact, why don't we hold all politicians accountable to that level? If you make an election promise for action, you must resign within 12 months and never re-enter politics again if you have not completed >75% of them.
Not one of them would ever sign anything, but it might shut up their outraged wailing and fake determination.
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How about if we ask Milliband, given that he's so shocked and outraged, to sign a piece of paper that says if he gets in power and does not change this policy within 6 months he will resign?
Any fool can change policies. Actually making it happen is a different issue...
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31241867
No doubt the cynical might wonder about the coincidental extension of this generous deal to May, the month of the general election.
Nice one George.
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>> No doubt the cynical might wonder about the coincidental extension of this generous deal to May
Perhaps they were undersubscribed. And I bust a gut to get my application in on day two!
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"Nice one George."
It's certainly ageist.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31253409
Probably not a vote winner on the forum.
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"Probably not a vote winner on the forum."
Good old Ed, still re-arranging the chairs.
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www.express.co.uk/news/uk/557009/Millions-of-pensioners-offered-State-payout-boost
But this could be. Buying votes?
Pity its taxable.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 9 Feb 15 at 10:13
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"But this could be. Buying votes?"
It could if it worked out but it looks to me as though a 65 year old would have to live at least another 20 years or so to recoup the initial layout.
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>> "But this could be. Buying votes?"
I don't think we'll see anything resembling a stampede of 80-year-olds willing to fork out £544 of their hard earned cash in return for an extra (taxable) £1 a week.
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Miliband in 'apprenticeship guarantee' for every school leaver
in England who "gets the grades" by 2020
would only apply to young people who gain '"level 3 qualifications," which are equivalent to having two A Levels.
extra 80,000 apprenticeships, with 33,000 to come from one project alone - the HS2 rail line.
More info
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31483886
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A view from the Right about the Greens and their lunatic ideas.
tinyurl.com/ncevqxc
Last edited by: Roger. on Wed 18 Feb 15 at 12:08
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>> A view from the Right about the Greens and their lunatic ideas.
>>
>> tinyurl.com/ncevqxc
>>
Thanks Roger..You've convinced me....
I'm voting Green...
:-)
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How do politicians expect us to believe a word they say?
Or the DM, ban or paint?
tinyurl.com/o77v9hn
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>> A view from the Right about the Greens and their lunatic ideas.
>>
>> tinyurl.com/ncevqxc
>>
I (almost) managed the first paragraph of that.
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Pity - you might have learnt something :-)
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I doubt it, it's far far too shouty, all heat and no light.
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UKIP and the Green party seem about equally barmy to me, neither party having much of a grip on reality and how the world really works. At the end of the day neither are going to be particularly relevant when it comes to the General Election. They are both a good source of entertainment though.
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>> UKIP and the Green party seem about equally barmy to me, neither party having much
>> of a grip on reality and how the world really works. At the end of
>> the day neither are going to be particularly relevant when it comes to the General
>> Election. They are both a good source of entertainment though.
>>
+1
And there are some seriously deranged UKIP supporters claiming they will win 100 seats... in fact I could stop that sentence at the word "supporters"...:-)
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Is the problem not that the balance of power could easily be held by one of the less well represented parties? I don't think anyone expects them do do that well in their own right.
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I expect UKIP/The Greens/Other parties in England will total under 5 seats.
(excl. Tories,Labour,LibDems)
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Once the fringe parties have to face full scrutiny of their manifestos as the election draws nearer their support will collapse. The Greens in particular will be exposed as a music hall joke.
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>> The Greens in particular will be exposed as a music hall joke.
There's a case for considering UKIP a music hall joke (the photo of Farage a couple of days ago was a gem), and the BNP and its ilk as sick jokes, but the ScotNats and Greens are quite sensible up to a point and have wide support from regional-chauvinist and do-gooding citizens. They aren't right about everything but they think they are. They aren't grossly cynical.
Weirdly, I find myself worrying most about the two big parties and the also-ran LibDems. Their discourse is very often intellectually corrupt and vacuous. Labour needs to pull its socks up.
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>> Once the fringe parties have to face full scrutiny of their manifestos as the election
>> draws nearer their support will collapse. The Greens in particular will be exposed as a
>> music hall joke.
>>
Real left wingers LOVE the Greens. They just close their eyes to the bits which talk about making people poorer through cutting GDP
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I would suggest that the Conservatives are going to win the elections with a small overall majority. Near zero inflation low oil prices ,Falling food prices,falling, unemployment falling, real earnings rising, house prices rising, record low mortgage rates, it's all about the economy as it always is .
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 19 Feb 15 at 17:20
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>> I would suggest that the Conservatives are going to win the elections with a small
>> overall majority. Near zero inflation low oil prices ,Falling food prices,falling, unemployment falling, real earnings
>> rising, house prices rising, record low mortgage rates, it's all about the economy as it
>> always is .
Bit of a problem for the other parties really. Its all supposed to be going down the pan due to the fault of the Tories (according to labour) due the immigrants and europe (according to Ukip) and due to control from London (according to the scots Nats)
Leaves them flapping about a bit.
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And I forgot to mention rising stock market and the pound rising against most currencies. (Got or very decent 1.32 Euros for my pounds this morning.
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"Got or very decent 1.32 Euros for my pounds this morning."
May I ask where, please? I noticed that the local Sainsbo's was at 1.298 late this afternoon. We need to get some in the next 3 or 4 weeks.
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Thomas Cook. Reserve online and collect in store for best rate. Web site currently showing 1.3225
ttp://www.thomascook.com/travel-money/buy-euros/
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"Thomas Cook"
Thanks for that - I'll keep an eye on the website :-)
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>> I would suggest that the Conservatives are going to win the elections with a small
>> overall majority. Near zero inflation low oil prices ,Falling food prices,falling, unemployment falling, real earnings
>> rising, house prices rising, record low mortgage rates, it's all about the economy as it
>> always is .
>>
>>
Not forgetting the Miliband factor. He's been touched with the same magic wand they used on Kinnock.
One of the Greens many nutty policies is to effectively withdraw all our sports teams from international competition, as they will be barred from competing against countries with dodgy human rights records (ie most of the world).
The promise to abolish the military will not go down well either. The Brits do have a soft spot for "Our boys". And virtually abolishing imprisonment will stoke the ire of more than just the Daily Mail headline writers.
And trying to explain where they are going to get the £71 a week to pay everyone in the country will take some serious (Silly?) maths. Like UKIP the Greens are a bit of a one trick pony, fighting climate change is all that most of the electorate know them for, but once the whole ragbag of idealist nonsense is trotted out they'll rapidly sink.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Thu 19 Feb 15 at 18:29
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She's a fool.
Her party's policys read like they've been dreamt up by a group if idealistic fifth formers in the common room.
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>> She's a fool.
>>
>> Her party's policys read like they've been dreamt up by a group if idealistic fifth
>> formers in the common room.
>>
I reckon that they are very appealing if you know nothing of economics and believe in money trees. The Greeks would love her..
The silly thing is you could cost her policies in a day # and avoid much of the criticism.
# roughly .. eg 500,000 houses a year to be built at £100k on average = £50billion I think.. To be funded by withdrawing tax relief on Buy to Let mortgages £4.5 billion...
err...
Last edited by: madf on Tue 24 Feb 15 at 16:24
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They'll get votes nevertheless. Loads of people don't understand or don't care about stuff they aren't interested in and will vote for because of a particular policy which catches their eye, or someone who looks or sounds good on telly.
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That's the trouble, they don't sound anything other than ridiculous on the telly. When they are questioned on how they're going to fund this Utopia they'll go into meltdown like Natalie Bennett did this morning.
The nearer the election comes the harder the questions are going to get. If they think they have a hope of holding the balance of power they are even madder than they seem.
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Here is the latest Conservative Party election broadcast.
tinyurl.com/pp7cte6
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Amazing how a glimpse of power can erase red lines. I read in one of the jock papers today that the SNP red line on " No nuclear weapons on Scottish soil" may dissapear if a coalition with Labour is required in London.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 6 Mar 15 at 21:23
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>> Amazing how a glimpse of power can erase red lines. I read in one of
>> the jock papers today that the SNP red line on " No nuclear weapons on
>> Scottish soil" may dissapear if a coalition with Labour is required in London.
It's in The Guardian too ON so it must be true.
Pragmatically though if the Tories don't get a majority a Labour/Liberal/Nationalist coalition or agreement is likely outcome. Nippy Sweety Nicola recognises that she's going to have to give in over current Trident arrangements. That's just a pragmatic recognition of the status quo. The real issue is whether a next generation 'independent' ICBM is worthwhile.
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I think that Salmond pulls the strings in the SNP.
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>> I think that Salmond pulls the strings in the SNP.
Maybe so but NSN is the front person and mouthpiece.
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m.bbc.com/news/uk-31798029
Seems to be more and more in the news. Not normally an election issue, but this time might end up with a discussion about it.
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Defence of the country is one of the primary reasons to have a government.
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There is a big difference between defending the country and fighting other peoples wars worldwide.
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I agree. Too many ill-thought adventures by far, in the last few years.
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I think that's the problem the narrative of defence spending is still in the iraq/Afghanistan mode. We need to look to the future and work out what we need to do in the future.
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Future Defence is not going to be grunts in boots on the ground. Trouble is they were the cheap option.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 10 Mar 15 at 22:35
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Cheap? Manpower isn't cheap.
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>> Cheap? Manpower isn't cheap.
Yes it is, its the cheapest part of any defence force.
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Certainly not with people like me and many others still being paid a comfortable living wage 20 years after leaving the service.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 10 Mar 15 at 22:49
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>> In the uk? Not at all.
Yes at all. Trident costs more than the entire pay and rations for all the bodies in all the armed forces. GCHQ costs more than all the pay and rations for all the bodies in the armed forces.
Bodies are cheap.
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It may seem that way but its not, as a rough guide 1/3 of the budget goes on people, 1/3 on infra* and one third on equipment.
* part of that is directly related to the cost of employing people.
People in uniforms in the MoD are expensive.
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Actually its a bit less than a 1/3, people in uniform cost nearly 9 bn out of a budget of 36 bn. Trident is about 1bn a year.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 11 Mar 15 at 01:28
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>> Actually its a bit less than a 1/3, people in uniform cost nearly 9 bn out of a budget of 36 bn. Trident is about 1bn a year.
>>
So its a quarter then?
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New Abrams tank $7.5M each
New destroyer £200M
New warplane £20m +
New aircraft carrier £2billion
Plus maintenance costs...
And most are obsolete within 10 years or require expensive upgrades..
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A pair of front line boots requires another three pairs, one in training, one on R&R, and one on leave. You need a supply train to feed, transport, and keep that pair of boots supplied with everything from bullets to toilet rolls. You need maintenance and repair facilities for both the boot wearers and their equipment, Then you have the research, development and manufacture of equipment, It took the industrial might of the USA to win WW2 and keep the boots in place. There is a move towards drones to replace manned aircraft, it is much cheaper to have a pilot in a shed somewhere in the UK driving it and eventually flying it from and maintaining it in the UK. At least it cuts out a long supply train. Better still not getting involved in other peoples fights. All that is before you buy a single bullet. Boots on the ground cheap, in your dreams.
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I would add that everyone in the supply and support role also requires training, R&R, leave, food, accommodation, and so it goes on. And then someone gets incapacitated for whatever reason and you have to find a replacement who needs...............
This is what is called strech, the task stays the same but the resources are repeatedly reduced.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 11 Mar 15 at 10:26
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Indeed a vicious circle at times.
I do wonder if this will come as an election issue, probably not but does seem to have more interest that at other elections.
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>> www.charleshenry.co.uk/thoughts/the-strange-case-of-the-werner-report/
>>
Sorry full of "coulds" and "mays"..
I could write a report saying "a UKIP Governments could bring great success " ...
and then in another section " a UKIP Government could be a disaster"..
and then claim I was correct whatever the outcome.,
And do you SERIOUSLY suggest politicians don't ask civil servants to give them a series of reasons why NOT to undergo a course of action?
I cannot believe you are so young and naive :-) to believe that...
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Its easy to throw stones when you're stood outside the glasshouse, lets see how well he copes if he's ever stood inside it.
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>> Its easy to throw stones when you're stood outside the glasshouse,
OK FMR, I too look askance at Nigel Farage because UKIP is right-wing and lends itself to racist discourse.
But I think the allegedly left-wing demonstrators who interrupted his dinner with his family in some pub and alarmed his children - according to today's comic - were behaving like fascists. How about you?
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>>were behaving like fascists...
I don't know, is that what fascists behave like?
Clearly the morons involved were total idiots though. No doubt that "Protest organiser Dan Glass" would be quite happy if it happened to him when he was out with his kids.
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>> I don't know, is that what fascists behave like?
Yes. Roughing up innocent harmless people, Hitler Youth behaviour.
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Reminder that the deadlines for (a) voter registration and (b) postal/proxy votes are approx 4 weeks off.
If not already registered as a voter you must do so by Monday 20 April
Applications for postal or proxy votes must be made by 21 April (postal) or 28 April (proxy):
www.parliament.uk/business/news/2015/march/deadline-to-register-to-vote-in-2015-general-election/
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Cheeky foreign bint. She should go back where she came from where she will find many kindred spirits.
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The bellylaff appears to be the only mainstream news source covering his revelation.
What Ms Bennett has done is reiterate the Green Party's commitment to establish a convention with a view to establishing a written constitution for the UK. See their policy statement at PA200:
policy.greenparty.org.uk/pa.html
Asked where the Monarchy sat within such a constitution she declined to pre-empt the commission.
As you might expect.
End of story.
Given the tenor of the policy document and probable public support for UK to remain a constitutional Monarchy I doubt HM and her heirs have much to worry about.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 24 Mar 15 at 18:26
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>> Green Party's commitment to establish a convention with a view to establishing a written constitution for the UK.
No one asked them to. No one wants a written constitution, apart from short-sighted idiot 'republicans' who imagine such faff is 'modern'. Load of cobblers.
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>> No one asked them to. No one wants a written constitution, apart from short-sighted idiot
>> 'republicans' who imagine such faff is 'modern'. Load of cobblers.
The current crowd of politicos are scared stiff of such a thing because it gives the proles rights to challenge government. The Human Rights Act and the Convention it imports into domestic law are a proxy constitution to that effect which is why the right are so against it.
The fact that no mainstream politician can make the case on that basis and get media support rather than ridicule is even more telling about who REALLY wields power in our 'democracy'.
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>> who REALLY wields power in our 'democracy'.
The civil service? 'Offshore capital'? Swag-bellied aldermen in small towns?
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>> >> who REALLY wields power in our 'democracy'.
>>
>> The civil service? ,'Offshore capital'? Swag-bellied aldermen in small towns?
And big business generally
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>>The current crowd of politicos are scared stiff of such a thing because it gives the proles >>rights to challenge government.
Really? And in a world without imaginary left wing conspiracy theories, are they still "scared stiff" of such a thing?
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>> Really? And in a world without imaginary left wing conspiracy theories, are they still "scared
>> stiff" of such a thing?
Scared stiff might be a figure of speech but do you seriously believe government has not got a vested interest in restricting opportunity for citizens to challenge its decisions?
The last lot, in some ways (Human Rights Act, Freedom of Information) seemed to swim against the authoritarian tide. In others though, attempts to oust Judicial Review of Immigration decisions was a case in point, they were as bad as anyone else.
Home Office was main nest for reactionaries - Straw and Blunkett were (almost) indistinguishable from Tories.
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>>Scared stiff might be a figure of speech
d'ya think?
>>but do you seriously believe government has not got a vested interest in restricting
>>opportunity for citizens to challenge its decisions?
I think that's conspiracy clap trap.
The Government gets stopped by sensationalist write ups in the Daily Mail, never mind by a constitution.
But you believe that the Government has done stuff that a written constitution would have stopped them doing?
Stuff and nonsense.
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>> The Government gets stopped by sensationalist write ups in the Daily Mail, never mind by
>> a constitution.
Absolutely. But only if the issue fits the Mail's template of what's worthy. Asylum and Immigration, Metal Illness (unless it hits the 'secret courts' sweet spot) or people on benefits don't fit that template.
>> But you believe that the Government has done stuff that a written constitution would have
>> stopped them doing?
>>
>> Stuff and nonsense.
I'm certain of it. Mostly stuff that affects groups or individuals but some aspects of Primary Legislation too. The spread of Judicial Review in last 40 yrs has caught some of them but by no means all.
Do you really think 'elected' ministers should wield power without let or hindrance?
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>> But you believe that the Government has done stuff that a written constitution would have
>> stopped them doing?
>>
>> Stuff and nonsense.
Today's shenanigans over how the Speaker is appointed are a case in point. The role of Speaker, particularly in hung Parliament is way too important to be meddled with on a motion put out of the blue and after a number of MP's have gone home at end of session.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32061097
Fortunately it was defeated. Leaving William Hague, a generally admirable politician, looking a fool and a patsy. Hopefully Gove, suspected of engineering the scenario, will be damaged goods too.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 26 Mar 15 at 14:20
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>> Leaving William Hague, a generally admirable politician, looking a fool and
>> a patsy. Hopefully Gove, suspected of engineering the scenario, will be damaged goods too.
>>
............and hopefully Bercow too!
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>> Hopefully Gove, suspected of engineering the scenario, will be damaged goods too.
Does that odious toad Gove have any redeeming features at all? I sincerely hope he loses his seat,
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>> Does that odious toad Gove have any redeeming features at all?
Not many. But if he's a republican, he's keeping quiet about it. That's something.
Heh heh.
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>> www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11491839/Green-leader-Natalie-Bennett-suggests-the-monarchy-should-be-abolished.html
She an e***** Aussie! She can EFF off back to where she came from, Effin Cheek
(I have the same view but thats not the point - its a ruddy cheek coming from an aussie)
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i responded (mentally) much the same.
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Zero and RP, tsk, republican dolts.
I hope I'm dead before that view prevails, because it will screw this place up as never before.
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I find honest answers when it comes to Royalty from politicians is a no no.
Similair in Amerika all politicians are religious and God fearing in public when questioned.
Maybe not such a bad idea to let the people decide what they want.
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>> I find honest answers when it comes to Royalty from politicians is a no no.
>>
>> Similair in Amerika all politicians are religious and God fearing in public when questioned.
>>
>> Maybe not such a bad idea to let the people decide what they want.
It's a terrible idea. How often are you going to do it? Every 5 years as a tick box on the ballot paper? It's only a matter of time if you follow that principle before we bin the monarchy, exit the EU, break up the UK, and probably declare war on which ever country has recently got up the noses of the mob.
I see Salmond's creative interpretation of a "no" vote on Scottish independence is to say it is now inevitable. Well it is, of course, if we keep having them.
There should be a referendum on EU membership either, now I think about it.
Half of the stirrers on these issues probably can't even be bothered to vote. Make that compulsory first and let the system do it's work.
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Election promises. Read all about it! - Armel Coussine
