So, sez I, I'll make some brown bread with that nice Doves Farm wholemeal we got.
Fast forward a few hours, and oh ho, sez I, it's not risen at all well. Solid as a pykrete battleship it is, nice new packet of yeast notwithstanding.
So Mr Google says I should add vitamin C. As the local Boots etc only appear to offer chewable orange flavoured vitamin C with added zinc and hydrangea oil at £19.99 for ten, that leads me to the only game in town, Lakeland. Little tube of the stuff for baking is a fiver.
Oh come now - what do you bread makers out there do to get it raised? I'm not splashing a fiver if it won't help.
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>> Oh come now - what do you bread makers out there do to get it
>> raised? I'm not splashing a fiver if it won't help.
Vit C? never use it. What yeast are you using? I use 1 Tablespoon (about 7 grammes) of Allinson easy bake yeast (small green tin in your local supermarket) per 500 grammes of flour & about 300ml of luke warm water, 1/2 teaspoon of salt and same of sugar, tablespoon of virgin olive oil. Mix well, kneed and that lot will first prove (first rise) in about an hour at room temp. Knock back, shape, re-prove for another hour and then bake.
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Just go to your local bakers and buy a loaf.....*tut*
Pat
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>> Just go to your local bakers and buy a loaf.....*tut*
Almost right Pat
Should actually read, "send your wife to the local bakers..." Etc...
;-)
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>> Just go to your local bakers and buy a loaf.....*tut*
>>
>> Pat
Slaps Pat on the head
The only REPEAT ONLY time to eat white shop bought sliced bread is to put sausages or bacon (or both) in it. With a lot of butter and a lot of Heinz tomato sauce.
other than that, home made bread is sublime.
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>>> home made bread is sublime<<
...and so it may be but it's never worth all that faffing about with flour and stuff, all that washing up and all that butter you're going to eat on it.
I like to live my life doing interesting things!
BTW, man after my own heart Runfer, just don't try it on me, you'll come unstuck;)
Pat
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>> >>> home made bread is sublime<<
>>
>> ...and so it may be but it's never worth all that faffing about with flour
>> and stuff, all that washing up and all that butter you're going to eat on
>> it.
>>
>> I like to live my life doing interesting things!
You're missing out on a little miracle, I love the way the mess becomes lovely stretchy dough as the gluten develops, the smell as it bakes, and the taste of the new bread. It takes very little time - about 10 minutes to weigh and mix, 5 to knock back and shape, and about 2 to put in the oven and take out. You do have to be around though, and have a timer!
I agree about the butter, but what must be done...
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Ok - yes, Allisons, but in the packets (they are 7g). 400 flour, 350 water, 25g fat, salt, sugar, or thereabouts.
White works just fine, but wholemeal is rather depressed.
I have to say it's a mug's game though in either case - Mrs C won't touch it other than perhaps one slice from politeness, then buys a supermarket loaf anyway, so I guess it's not that good.
Edit: - you'd get on well with my wife, Pat. Birds of a feather in the cooking department.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 5 Jan 15 at 16:08
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>> Ok - yes, Allisons, but in the packets (they are 7g). 400 flour, 350 water,
>> 25g fat, salt, sugar, or thereabouts.
>>
>> White works just fine, but wholemeal is rather depressed.
>>
>> I have to say it's a mug's game though in either case - Mrs C
>> won't touch it other than perhaps one slice from politeness, then buys a supermarket loaf
>> anyway, so I guess it's not that good.
>>
>> Edit: - you'd get on well with my wife, Pat. Birds of a feather in
>> the cooking department.
wholemeal does not rise as easily, may need slightly warmer and moister proving conditions. Stick it in your cold oven but with a loaf tin full of boiling water in there as well. Repeat the boiling water every 20 mins.
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It's not a terribly economical solution to bread making, but I find our Kitchen Aid poncy mixer (candy red, if it makes a difference...) thing does a wonderful job of kneading dough, including wholemeal and granary, and an hour or so on the back of the Aga is perfect for the first rising... And the thermal mass of a tonne of cast iron means that the temperature of the hot oven is unaffected by chucking a couple of loaves into it. Just don't try and work out a cost / loaf!! Even though 100% wholemeal loaves, which can be somewhat leaden when home made, have a wonderful texture :-)
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>> It's not a terribly economical solution to bread making, but I find our Kitchen Aid
>> poncy mixer (candy red, if it makes a difference...) thing does a wonderful job of
>> kneading dough, including wholemeal and granary, and an hour or so on the back of
>> the Aga is perfect for the first rising...
Yep, we've been doing our own bread for a year or so with a Kitchen Aid poncy mixer (black in our case) and standing the tin on the vent / spacer between the back of the cooker and the wall.
The smell of baking bread wafting through the house is heavenly.
It's when you see how fast proper bread goes stale that you start wondering what the heck they put in the shop bought stuff.
Shop bought bread is fit for toast, or as Zero says, bacon (and/or sausage) butties only.
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>> Yep, we've been doing our own bread for a year or so with a Kitchen
>> Aid poncy mixer (black in our case) and standing the tin on the vent /
>> spacer between the back of the cooker and the wall.
>>
>> The smell of baking bread wafting through the house is heavenly.
>>
>> It's when you see how fast proper bread goes stale that you start wondering what
>> the heck they put in the shop bought stuff.
>>
>> Shop bought bread is fit for toast, or as Zero says, bacon (and/or sausage) butties
>> only.
I admit to using a kenwood chef with dough hook to mix and knead, usually. The only things I have mixed by hand recently have been the bara brith (fermented kind, I rub the butter in) and my tea loaf.
My usual loaf lasts a week though - better of course when new, but perfectly fine for days. I use about 10ml of oil per small loaf, which helps keeping but does mean a softish crust - you can never get truly crusty bread with fat in.
I did a sourdough course a while back with a very good baker in Rickmansworth. He once worked for the British Baking Industries Research Association in Chorleywood. Later he did product development for one of the big supermarkets. What they really wanted was a classic French bread that lasted a week; the two are of course mutually exclusive.
Commercial bakers (maybe not the poncy artisan kind) tend to use bread improvers. A mixture of ascorbic acid, whey powder, enzymes, yeast nutrients and other stuff that help to produce consistent results, "improve machinability" whatever that is, aid mould release, improve the rise, and increase the yield - as bread is sold by weight I assume that means it can retain more water, more less flour for the weight.
That might account for some of the perceived differences between home made and bought bread.
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>> I admit to using a kenwood chef with dough hook to mix and knead,
I use a Bosch
>>usually.
>> The only things I have mixed by hand recently have been the bara brith (fermented
>> kind, I rub the butter in) and my tea loaf.
Our baking tastes seem to match. I do the same, and of course for scones you need to rub in the butter, and a needs a wet mix which is not best catered for in a mixer.
Have you tried crumpets? welsh cakes? I bought a cast iron baking stone for those.
>> product development for one of the big supermarkets. What they really wanted was a classic
>> French bread that lasted a week; the two are of course mutually exclusive.
French Bread needs to be baked and eaten the same day. well half day actually
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 6 Jan 15 at 13:19
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>>Have you tried crumpets? welsh cakes?
No - I do like a crumpet though!
I have a pizza stone, maybe I can bring that into play.
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Vitamin C should be avoided. You don't need sugar for white bread either but I do put a bit in brown and wholemeal loaves.
This page lists and tells you about all the 'improvers' added to flour. None of them are needed, but it is worth noting that some extend the shelf life of the product. Not that it should be a concern with home made bread where if it is any good, will be eaten while still warm!
www.bakeryinfo.co.uk/news/archivestory.php/aid/8103/Coming_clean.html
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Chemically (Mrs B who knows this stuff assures me) it's Ascorbic Acid. Quick Google suggests Holland and Barrett sell it. Available by the kg on internet auction sites. Doves Farm also suggested if you add 'for baking' to the Google search string.
Did we used to use it in homebrew or was that citric acid?
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Neither, we went to the pub and invited a barmaid with big pumps to pour one.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 5 Jan 15 at 16:19
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Ah, H&B I didn't think of and there's one here somewhere. Thanks for that.
I was unhappy about random tubs of white powder (or in fact pretty well any food) from eBay for some reason. Could be anything in there, even if it says Fortnums on the label.
Good hint about the oven/hot water, Z - shall try that.
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>> I was unhappy about random tubs of white powder (or in fact pretty well any
>> food) from eBay for some reason. Could be anything in there, e
Me neither. OK if it comes from a home brew shop though.
Reminder to self - now on last 1kg tub of Brewclens from last delivery in 2010. Need to order more.
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My gas oven on the minimum setting with the door not closed and a bowl of warm water in the bottom gets dough to rise nice and fast. An electric oven could will be too hot for the yeast at the minimum setting, as could other gas ovens.
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Vitamin C improves nutrition but is not otherwise needed and should in any case not be required in the case of wholemeal flour.
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No need for vitamin C.
Wholemeal tends to be a bit more compact but it shouldn't be be concrete.
What yeast are you using? There's dried yeast and dried yeast. Easiest is the "fast action" or "easy bake" type.
I use the Allinson at about £1 a tin, the green one here, not the yellow:
goo.gl/fQecey
If you use the yellow "dried active yeast" type, then you need to mix it with some warm water and a bit of sugar about 15 minutes before you use it to activate it. No need with the green stuff.
Try this: (add to the bowl yeast first, salt last).
8g fast action yeast
500g strong wholemeal flour (or try 50/50 white/wholemeal )
10ml clear honey
20ml olive oil (or any oil you like, ordinary vegetable oil is fine)
6g salt
about 320ml of aired water.
When you knead it, you need to pull/tear the dough, not just fold it. You'll feel it change from a paste to a strong stretchy, smoother texture.
Don't over-prove it. It's easy to let it rise too far. If you are using aired water in a warm kitchen 40 minutes might be enough - the recipes always say 'double in size' - in a bowl, that's less than double the height!
When I tip it out to knock it back I whack it flat with the back of my hand and then FOLD it back into a lump shape. Don't knead at that stage.
I'd make 2 x 1lb size loaves out of that quantity rather than a 2lb one. Smaller loaves are easier to get right anyway.
Again don't over prove in the tins. If your tins are like mine, then the dough will only be halfway up the tin when you put it in. When the curved top of the dough is higher than the rim, get it in the oven. "Oven spring" will lift it visibly in the first 5 minutes.
Use bottom heat, as opposed to fan, if you can. If fan, you can drop the temp a bit to say 200.
I'd try say 35 minutes at about 210C for the smaller loaf size, and maybe 40-45 for a 2 pounder.
In any case, you can hoik one out at 35 minutes, tip it out of the tin and check if it's done. Tapping the bottom of the loaf, it should sound hollow, if in doubt and it doesn't look burnt, put it back for 5 minutes. Bread doesn't collapse like a sponge cake if you open the oven door.
My usual bread is a variant on the above; lately I've been using 50/50 Allinsons Country Grain and Bacheldre Watermill Rustic Country flour; today's was 80% the Country Grain, 10% white, 10% wholemeal. I used 310ml water to each 500g of that, everything else was the same.
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>> My usual bread is a variant on the above; lately I've been using 50/50 Allinsons
>> Country Grain and Bacheldre Watermill Rustic Country flour; today's was 80% the Country Grain, 10%
>> white, 10% wholemeal. I used 310ml water to each 500g of that, everything else was
>> the same.
Try the Wessex Mills French Flour - Simply the finest baguettes produced here using that.
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>> Try the Wessex Mills French Flour - Simply the finest baguettes produced here using that.
I will, if I can get it, thanks for the tip - the farm shop a mile away is listed as a Wessex Mill stockist, but no idea if they do the french flour. I fancy a go at that.
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Right, got the Wessex French flour - surprised they had that - what do I do with it? There's a recipe on the bag but it's got butter in it, didn't expect that.
Very happy to start with your recipe if you're prepared to divulge it :)
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>> Right, got the Wessex French flour - surprised they had that - what do I
>> do with it? There's a recipe on the bag but it's got butter in it,
>> didn't expect that.
>>
>> Very happy to start with your recipe if you're prepared to divulge it :)
The butter thing is a red herring, yes its good for making brioche but I guess you have your own recipe for that.
Just use it as you would for your normal white bread recipe of choice. For the second prove just roll it into baguette shapes of your chosen size.
(I have a silicon baguette baking liner - keeps them long and round)
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There's not many posts I cut out and pin to my fridge door, but that will be one of them. I can see it will be a busy weekend.
Thanks Manatee.
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>> There's not many posts I cut out and pin to my fridge door, but that
>> will be one of them. I can see it will be a busy weekend.
>>
>> Thanks Manatee.
Oh heck, I shall feel responsible for the next refractory brick...
That Allinson's Country Grain makes a nice loaf on its own by the way - Sainsburys stocks it, as does Morrisons I think.
I find straight wholemeal a bit cardboardy too, unless it's very new.
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"Fast forward a few hours"
Are you using a 'bread-maker? I use my inherited, ancient Panasonic SD253 - apparently the Rolls-Royce of bread-makers in its day. The normal time to make a white loaf is 4hrs but, for any blend involving wholemeal flour, a different programme has to be set, and the run time is 5hrs.
In order to make wholemeal more palatable and less like cardboard, I use a 50/50 mix of wholemeal/white flour and use the 5hr programme. The bread thus produced is delicious though, I have to say, not quite as 'airy' as a white loaf. I don't add anything other than:
200g white flour
200g wholemeal flour
1 tbs sugar
1 tbs milk powder
0.5tsp salt
~15ml sunflower oil (just less than a tbs)
300ml water
Edit - forgot the 0.5tsp dried yeast
Last edited by: Haywain on Mon 5 Jan 15 at 16:32
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I have tried with a breadmaker - also a Panasonic - but that is only really just okayish sometimes. Not tried 5 hours on it though.
One thing, though, chaps - sounds like a daft question, but:
There are teaspoons for your tea. Then there are bigger spoons you use for your rhubarb and custard. I spent years thinking they were tablespoons till someone told me those are actually dessert spoons and the next size up again - huge, and I possess only one - are really tablespoons.
I'm never sure therefore whether a recipe means actual tablespoons or really means dessert spoons at half the size cos everyone else thinks those are tablespoons, as I did.
Kind of makes a difference.
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>> I'm never sure therefore whether a recipe means actual tablespoons or really means dessert spoons
>> at half the size cos everyone else thinks those are tablespoons, as I did.
>>
>> Kind of makes a difference.
I use a set of measurement spoons for consistency. As baking ingredients is simply a matter of proportions then practise and using the same known spoons (reference) is all thats required.
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Do you have a special baking outfit too? Or do you just wear your normal cooking pinafores?
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>> Do you have a special baking outfit too? Or do you just wear your normal
>> cooking pinafores?
I have a homer simpson apron.
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>> Makes sense - Doh etc...
Women fall at the feet of men who can cook and with a sense of humour.... Its the only hope us ugly fat gets git.
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I've always relied on having an air of mystery. As in they can see that the lights are on but they're never sure if there's anyone in.
;-)
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Spoons baffle me too, never know whether they are supposed to be rounded or not either. If I have to use spoon measures I use a set of plastic measures anyway, in 1/2tsp, tsp, dessert and table sizes. They are marked as to the ml. , if you need to know what they are I can go and look.
I weigh everything. Digital scale makes it easy.
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I am actually due to cook tonight. George Foreman grill, two slices of bread, fish fingers with ketchup on in between, fish finger toasties. Sorted.
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>> I am actually due to cook tonight. George Foreman grill, two slices of bread, fish
>> fingers with ketchup on in between, fish finger toasties. Sorted.
By way of a change, sub the ketchup for salad cream
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Sounds a bit foreign that.
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>> Sounds a bit foreign that.
Pfffttt you sweaties - no class.
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Changed my mind. Going gourmet instead. FLTs ( Fish fingers, lettuce and tomato toasties ) much more complicated, you have to put the lettuce in at the very last minute or it curls. Now that might need salad cream, but perhaps only as a dip.
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My late father had a passing enthusiasm for making bread. He was interested in the technical details. The stuff he made was OK. Of course any bread just out of the oven is going to be very nice with butter.
Neither Herself nor I have culinary talents, but my middle daughter is a foodie and a brilliant cook. Makes excellent bread. There was a function here last night, with members of Herself's very extensive family bringing their own contributions, as usual very varied in quality and appeal. What I was waiting for was the pudding course, because the daughter had made a big shallow dish full of crème brûlée. Waited ages, no puddings yet on display, nipped out for a snout on the lawn, came back five minutes later to find that puddings had appeared and the damn gannets had scoffed all the crème brûlée, leaving nothing but a scrape round the edges. I was very, very far from being best pleased.
Reliably good bread is to be found in France every morning. A bit of white bâton with butter and some decent coffee set the world to rights.
I've just eaten a Ginster's peppered steak slice I found in the fridge, a week beyond its eat-by date. Even with Worcester sauce it tasted stale. It will serve me right if I get a tummy ache.
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37 replies in an hour and 40 minutes - I'm amazed!
Is a motoring topic ever this popular?
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"I have tried with a breadmaker - also a Panasonic - but that is only really just okayish sometimes. Not tried 5 hours on it though."
I suspect that all Panasonic controls may be basically the same, though mine is over 10 years old now. I get the 5hr programme by pressing the 'select' button which gives me the options of basic, wholemeal, French Italian etc. By choosing 'wholemeal', the 5hr programme is automatically flagged up - and I use this for the 50/50 mixture.
I weigh flour accurately on electronic kitchen scales (to 1g); I measure the sunflower oil using an ordinary tablespoon (which I can put in the dishwasher), the water in a laboratory-type polythene measuring cylinder and for the other (dry) table/tea spoons measurements, I use the small polythene measuring thing that came with the kit.
I keep the lot in a box, there's no fuss, I can do it in 5 minutes and I am not a slave to it - I can hardly call it a hobby. The end-product is remarkably consistent.
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>> it a hobby. The end-product is remarkably consistent.
Yep, the bread is always square and its always got a hole in the bottom.
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>>
>> Yep, the bread is always square and its always got a hole in the bottom.
>>
Sounds like my boss.
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"Yep, the bread is always square and its always got a hole in the bottom."
Wrong! It's oblongish - but you're right about the hole so I'll award you half-marks.
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You don't need to use the SD253 to bake the bread; it's consistent but the shape is hopeless. Better to use the Pizza program to mix the dough and warm it through its first rise, then knock back and shape by hand and bake in a proper oven.
Or you can do as I occasionally do and set it up the night before as if to bake in the morning, but interrupt it before the final phase, reshape and bake in the oven. About once a month it's worth running one right through to sterilize the machine but it's generally too dry for any nasties to grow in it anyway.
Dan Leppard reckons that much of what's written about kneading for gluten development is wrong, and that time in contact with the water is what counts. I suspect he may be right, given that I can get a well-risen, well-structured sourdough loaf after only 3 minutes of machine kneading; with a yeast dough I expect I could get away with less.
Final point - and a return to Cranks's OP - is that I've been finding my regular wholemeal dough a bit lethargic lately, whether made with the usual Tesco flour or the alternative from Hovis. The yeast hasn't changed, and the machine manages the temperature, so I wonder if there are batches of flour out there at the moment that are a bit low in protein. Certainly the white loaf I did as a test last weekend popped up perfectly - and produced the most wonderful crust. I find 150g of natural yogurt in a 600g (of flour) mix boosts the protein without tasting of itself, so even my slow wholemeals have been perfectly edible.
So don't mock, Pat and Humph. The results are worth every little bit of the effort.
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Ah, reminds me of my trick. Do a pizza dough in the breadmaker, but cut out the salt. Then put in a big tray as a flat bread. Second prove, then put finger holes in about one and a quarter inches apart. Put lots of olive oil (pizza dough has no fat - ignore recipes that tell you put it in) in the holes, grind salt over it, and sprinkle with rosemary.
Bake in oven, slice and eat with good cheese. If in central London - Neals Yard dairy is the place for cheese.
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Haven't you just described a focaccia, Slidey? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Oh yes, and Wessex Mill flour is lovely stuff. I went there (Wantage) in October, while I was recuperating and as a try-out drive, and bought quite an assortment, including kibbled rye and my favourite, Wessex Cobber. That's like Hovis Granary, only more so - wonderfully nutty, but chewy with a hint of caramel in the flavour.
They'll deliver for £3.50. Must buy some bulk bins for the garage and put in a decent-size order for some more.
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Haven't you just described a focaccia, Slidey?
Er yes, brain was on holiday...
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Vitamin C or ascorbic acid is less easily available these days or at least its not normally on display, you sometimes need to ask the pharmacist. The reasons for this is that heroin addicts use it to make heroin soluble and thus capable of being injected.
I'm sure AC can tell you more
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 5 Jan 15 at 17:59
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Oh, another ordinary thing you can't buy. Sigh.
When I were a nipper I had a Boy's Book of Exciting Things To Do, which dated, I would think, from the thirties. I still remember going into Boots and asking for a bottle of liquid glycerine and some flowers of sulphur. I got some odd looks and I don't think I got the flowery things, whatever they were.
I don't recall what the experiment was, unless it was something to do with making bubbles.
As an aside, I also made from that book a "cannon" which was a bottle on its side on top of two pencils. Put vinegar in the bottle, add a paper towel wrapped package of baking powder and cork it. Vey satisfyingly there is a dent in my mother's garden gate showing the impact to this day.
I reckon today's youth miss out.
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>> I reckon today's youth miss out.
They do indeed. How many of them have put a genuine army thunderflash in an old red small-paned phone box in the hope of blasting all the glass out?
Or lit the fuse on one, shoved it down the muzzle of a Very-light pistol on top of the proper cartridge and fired it into the air (tremendous recoil, watch out) to alarm everyone within half a mile?
Everyone is entitled to be a right little monster for a year or two. Or even a year or ten.
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>> I'm sure AC can tell you more
No, I can't. I was never a junkie and the ones I knew have died or stopped using. But my memory is that NHS heroin didn't need to be made soluble, just crushed and boiled up with water in a spoon. I have no idea what modern estate addicts do, but it's probably often something stupid. How could it not be, when they don't really know what's in the powder they are getting? If it's heavily cut, the cut may be harmful (washing powder is not unknown). If it isn't cut, it may be so powerful as to kill the incautious user.
From memory, NHS heroin worked perfectly well in suspension, although it can't have been good for the veins. The users would draw the cloudy liquid from the spoon into the spike through a bit of cotton wool, hoping to trap some of the inert filler that all pills are mainly made of.
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Didn't want to imply you were a junky AC - it's just that you seem to know about these things.
Culinary grade citric acid known as "raja" is used to boil up the European street grade heroin with water to make it soluble. Obviously NHS stuff didn't need it and nor apparently does the stuff you buy in the US. I blame the EU. Perhaps Nigel will get it sorted
I would hasten to add that my purchases of ascorbic acid were for a more minor addiction - home made wine but I no longer make it now I can afford the real stuff.
Actually home made wine is a bit like home made bread. Yes you can make something eatable/drinkable at home and enthusiasts will tell you its better that the commercial product but its not. I've never eaten a home made loaf or drunk home made wine that was as good as a decent product bought in the shops despite what the makers will tell you.
I can make bread and its edible but its not a patch on the bread made by my local baker, not one of those namby pamby artisan bakers who charge £3 a loaf but an ordinary small local baker, the type that have sadly disappeared from so many towns. I buy a week's supply at a time and stick it the freezer
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 5 Jan 15 at 21:48
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>> Actually home made wine is a bit like home made bread. Yes you can make
>> something eatable/drinkable at home and enthusiasts will tell you its better that the commercial product
>> but its not.
With wine its not as drinkable because home wine makers do not have access to the same processes, equipment and ingredients as commercial wine makers.
>> I can make bread and its edible but its not a patch on the
>> bread made by my local baker, not one of those namby pamby artisan bakers who
>> charge £3 a loaf but an ordinary small local baker, the type that have sadly
>> disappeared from so many towns. I buy a week's supply at a time and stick
>> it the freezer
I can and do make bread just as tasty as any local baker because I do have access to the same materials, processes and equipment as he does. And its warmer and its fresher and I can adjust it to my taste.
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I'm sure you thinks it's very nice. All home bakers do.
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>> I'm sure you thinks it's very nice. All home bakers do.
I know its very nice. Why would you go to the effort of baking it if it tasted worse?
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>>Why would you go to the effort of baking it if it tasted worse.
That is indeed the mystery of home baking.
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>>
>> >>Why would you go to the effort of baking it if it tasted worse.
>>
>> That is indeed the mystery of home baking.
No mystery, despite you claiming to enjoy baking programs in TV, it clearly fails to make any impression in certain parts of Norfolk. I'm sure the local baker is grateful
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I like watching Grand Designs too but never been tempted to build my own subterranean eco-home out of straw bails either.
No, I'll leave the baking to Paul, Mary and yourself. Cobblers sticking to their lasts and all that.
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>> I know its very nice. Why would you go to the effort of baking it if it tasted worse?
Middle daughter's a foodie. She makes sourdough bread which, when it comes off, is very nice with butter.
There was a lot of her best stuff the other day and I was looking forward to more, lightly toasted. But there wasn't any left - Herself had scoffed the lot.
She's a right gannet, but she probably needs to be poor darling. To keep her strength up to cope with the nippers and, er, me not to put too fine a point on it.
Even so, I wasn't best pleased.
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>> With wine its not as drinkable because home wine makers do not have access to
>> the same processes, equipment and ingredients as commercial wine makers.
>>
The best we got for wine was Larsen kits, about the level of Ozzie Red or the Roche Mazet stuff you but for a couple of Euro in France. Made in (IIRC) 20 litre batches and we were drinking it faster than we could make it.
Beer was rather better in quality and a 40 pint batch lasted a week. The rotokegs and fermenting buckets went to a jumble sale when kids were young - I now regret letting them go.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 5 Jan 15 at 22:32
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Had some rather good home made wine when I stayed in a B and B in British Colombia last year. The owner insisted I try it and Iended up drinkng a bottle of the stuff. I suppose it was about as good as cheap table wine. He bought the grape juice form a local wine producer which I guess was the secret of its quality or maybe it was just the warm evening and being on holiday that made it taste good. Canadian wine is rather good but you don't see much of it here
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As far as home brew/made/whatever wine and beer is concerned most of it is just nasty and none of it is as good as the real thing despite the protestations of the owners..
However, insofar as bread is concerned, my wife does turn out some extraordinarily good stuff, although she doesn't use a bread maker. Its no better than the local baker, but it is not noticeably worse either.
But it doesn't last. When warm and fresh its good, but in a matter of hours it is well past its best and usually past being enjoyable. The kids still eat it though.
Now homemade jams, sauces and marmalades on the other hand are clearly vastly superior to the commercial stuff. If I get up the energy to pick a bucket of oranges, then herself will make a couple of containers of marmalade. Cardboard would taste good with her marmalade on it.
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>> .....> bread made by my local baker, not one of those namby pamby artisan bakers who
>> charge £3 a loaf but an ordinary small local baker,
>> the type that have sadly disappeared from so many towns.
>> I buy a week's supply at a time and stick it the freezer
>>
Thats exactly what I did today. I have a choice of two such bakers, one at the end of ny road and one a mile or so away. Both have been in existance for a long long time. Both are not in towns.
When we first moved here 30 + years ago, or friends would not believe the previous bakers trusting nature. Especially on a Saturday he would finish the baking, put on his suit n tie, sit in a chair and listen to classical music. ( He finally retired at about 90.)
When the cost of your purchases was arrived at, you left the money on a shelf and took what change you required.
This was far from a rural location or community, with about 3500 houses.
How things have changed.
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When young I worked near a pub called the Crooked Billet. It was, at the time, the most local of all locals.
Nobby, the landlord, used to get as drunk as the rest of us and after about 9pm one just helped oneself direct from the tapped barrels in the cellar and left the appropriate money in the till drawer (there was only a drawer, not an actual till).
And in those days, depending on the time of year, once could get bitter, mild, old, etc. etc. And no lager.
Its a poncey, up-itself, nouveau, restauranty place now, or at least it was the last time I was there.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 6 Jan 15 at 00:22
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Where was this particular Crooked Billet Mark?
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>> Where was this particular Crooked Billet Mark?
Stoke Row. Near Nettlebed.
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I had a Panasonic bread maker for a while. And I could make some decent brown bread in it. But it was only my wife and I who would eat it.... so it was not used so often. Donated to charity 5 years ago when we downsized and because I never used it enough. We got it on sale in John Lewis I think.
But one thing you could use it for was to mix ingredients and then let it rise.... but not cook it. You could then if you wanted to, cook it in the oven.
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Fresh yeast adds a touch more flavour to home-made bread.
Tesco give it away FREE, Sainsbury's will sell you a lump (both from the bakery dept.) and Morrisons sell it, foil wrapped, from their dairy chiller cabinets - keeps for ages in the fridge if left wrapped.
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Didn't know that, Roger, thanks. How much do you have to use in comparison with the usual 7g of dried?
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1½ oz fresh yeast per 3lbs strong bread flour. (Note that the quantity of yeast does not increase or decrease in direct proportion to the weight of flour used - yeast is a live organism and increases naturally when fed!).
Start the yeast with 1 teaspoonful of sugar and a couple of fluid ozs. of tepid water from the total recipe amount. Let it bubble with the CO2 it produces before using it.
Fresh yeast is not recommended for use in bread-makers.
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>> 1½ oz fresh yeast per 3lbs strong bread flour. (Note that the quantity of yeast
>> does not increase or decrease in direct proportion to the weight of flour used -
>> yeast is a live organism and increases naturally when fed!).
Whats that in real non UKIP measurements?
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>> Whats that in real non UKIP measurements?
Damn, thats another item added to the UKIP manifesto, Bring back imperial measurements and reverse decimal currency.
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Being as how I don't do accuracy, I've imperial and metric weights for my balance pan weighing scales. Despite the fact one does need to get quantities accurate with a bread maker, I've never had a problem.
Bit like my car tools, I've both imperial and metric micrometers and use the appropriate one. Conversion is rarely satisfactory as screws are quite often smaller than their nominal sizes.
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I give up, I'm off to join the guys on the SOE forum, more sense on there!
Pat
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Special Operations Executive?
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>> Special Operations Executive?
Just had this image of Pat as Violette Szabo
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Perish the thought Z:)
Pat
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For the bread fans, the Food Programme this week was about wheat.
I haven't managed to listen to it properly yet but the little I caught sounded interesting.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b050yh95
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Can't get it up - Zero
