This article from the Independent
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/car-tax-disc-changes-two-days-to-go--and-it-affects-you-much-more-than-just-not-displaying-a-piece-of-paper-9762000.html
Has the intriguing line
"You'll also remain responsible for taxing the vehicle you no longer own and you'll have to pay any fines the buyer may clock up."
What's that all about then? It doesn't explain further.
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>> What's that all about then? It doesn't explain further.
Its badly written, missing one key word.
Even if you're not due a refund, you must tell the DVLA if you sell your car. Failure to do so means facing a fine of up to £1,000 AND You'll also remain responsible for taxing the vehicle you no longer own and you'll have to pay any fines the buyer may clock up.
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Ah, thank you. Fell over my own literalism, plus it's been A Day.
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I delivered a brand new* BMW today. As has been the way for the past few months since DVLA stopped issuing dealers with books of tax discs, the paperwork showed that the disc would be generated centrally and posted to the driver within 7 days. A form was included to be displayed in the windscreen for traffic wardens et al to read in the interim.
As the disc will no longer have to be displayed after tomorrow, I didn't bother sticking the empty holder in the windscreen. I wonder if they're even bothering to print any this week :)
*Date of first registration: 29th September 2014
EDIT: I also wonder how long it'll be until I deliver a car to someone who hasn't heard of the tax disc changes. Not long is my guess, because every March and September I stumble across at least one driver who wasn't aware their new car was sporting the brand new plate when I make the comment about it turning the neighbours' heads.
Last edited by: Dave_C220CDI on Mon 29 Sep 14 at 19:14
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Opened a likely-looking envelope in a pile of unopened ones from the bank, the authorities and so on today. It wasn't money, but it was a replica tax disc I paid for a bit late but ages ago, which I thought hadn't arrived.
In fact I haven't yet been pulled for displaying a last-April tax disc. Indeed displaying is no longer mandatory I gather, computer just say yes or no. Nevertheless I stuck the new one in the windscreen. If you've got it, flaunt it.
Afterthought: God, I hope the BiB don't think I'm taking the whassername or being suspiciously law-abiding. We don't want that.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 29 Sep 14 at 19:21
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Victoria abolished 'Rego' stickers (which went in the same place as the tax disk) last year, felt a bit weird driving a car with nothing on the windscreen for a while. Speaking of 'Rego' - it's GBP500 a year for a small car and includes an element of compulsory 3rd party insurance. All enforced by ANPR and a nice fine (and demerit points for the registered keeper's license) through the post.
Still no MoT (Roadworthy) though unless the car changes hands, which seems like madness to a Pommie. Locals think that Roadworthies are a scam by garages to extract money, I do-so hope the ancient Holdens have some semblance of brakes since there is no compulsion to check....
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I don't know the roadworthy laws in Western Australia but a friend has a 15ish year old pickup (ute) that he uses as a runabout in his 100 acre back yard. He thinks nothing of using it to run about five miles or so to the post office and shops in the village. Never in a million years would the pickup pass a MOT.
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No-one I've spoken to knows anything about this, and I only know because I come here!
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>> No-one I've spoken to knows anything about this, and I only know because I come
>> here!
What do 'they' need to do so folks grasp this stuff?
There are reminders with MVL duty renewal forms, it's been pretty well covered in the press, on consumer radio/TV programmes too.
Does it need peak time telly ads or a story line planted in Emmerdale/Coro/East Enders etc in same way agricultural gems were once dispensed via Ambridge's doings?
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>> >> No-one I've spoken to knows anything about this, and I only know because I
>> come
>> >> here!
>>
>> What do 'they' need to do so folks grasp this stuff?
folks don't need to know. You get your reminder same as before, you pay same as before, you don't you get fined same as before. Only difference is you don't get a paper tax disk, and your renewal notice will tell you that.
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It does. Did the LEC today. One advantage is that with no postal delay to allow for, there's no need to part with the money before the last day of the month.
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>> It does. Did the LEC today. One advantage is that with no postal delay to
>> allow for, there's no need to part with the money before the last day of
>> the month.
But wasn't that case before? There was, IIRC. a formalised 'grace' period of at least 7 days for 'tax in post' provided you renewed before old disc expired.
Good for those of us paid on last working day of month.
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Anyway, the aged matelot will be shelling out money to a charity, following his rash bet that we would get nicked for removing our tax disks early.
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Way ahead of you Z, Mrs ON hosted a Macmillan fund raiser at our gaff on Monday, over £200 extracted from her pals and my donation duly paid.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 1 Oct 14 at 08:26
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>> One advantage is that with no postal delay to allow for, there's no need to part with the money before the last day of the month.
>>
Unless you get, as I just have :-
"www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/app/exit/siteunavailable?skin=directgov
Welcome to DVLA's Vehicle Licensing Online
Site/Services Unavailable
DVLA is sorry the service is currently unavailable due to essential maintenance
You can:
Try again later or apply in person at a Post Office® branch that issue tax discs."
Of maybe a Post Ofice branch that used to issue tax discs. :-)
Oh well I will have to try again tomorrow.:-(
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I still cannot tax my car.
Will the ANPR mob accept my excuse that the taxdisc site was down ? :-)
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>> Will the ANPR mob accept my excuse that the taxdisc site was down ? :-)
Take a snapshot of your screen, print it out and show them if stopped.
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>> I still cannot tax my car.
>>
>> Will the ANPR mob accept my excuse that the taxdisc site was down ? :-)
Serves you right, applying three minutes before your tax runs out, talk about cutting it fine.
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I suppose that's the other side: no smoothing effect from people allowing for the postal delay means a huge spike in activity on the last day of the month. A bit like online tax returns, which can be chaotic on deadline day.
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The empty car tax disc holder can now be utilised to hold an emergency supply of suggestive biscuits.
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>> The empty car tax disc holder can now be utilised to hold an emergency supply
>> of suggestive biscuits.
Only cheap, thin Aldi suggestive biscuits.
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>> The empty car tax disc holder can now be utilised to hold an emergency supply of suggestive biscuits.
Good idea but technically flawed. I couldn't reach the biscuits if they were in the tax disc holder.
Better to store them in the little clip behind the sun visor. Rich Tea would survive that better though I feel. I used to hide a couple of Marlboro there when I was giving up and felt that an emergency fag might be necessary.
I guess you could get half a dozen ciggies or 3 or 4 Cheroots in the tax disc holder though. Same logistal/distance issues mind.
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>> >> I still cannot tax my car.
>> >>
>> >> Will the ANPR mob accept my excuse that the taxdisc site was down ?
>> :-)
>>
>> Serves you right, applying three minutes before your tax runs out, talk about cutting it
>> fine.
>>
I had tried a little earlier ;-)
But things are still not working in gov. The site is still sick.
"We are sorry, but the original service is currently unavailable."
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>>"We are sorry, but the original service is currently unavailable."
Phone alternative is also responding ..........Not available ...due to essential maintenance.
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I have exactly the same problem, Henry k, maybe it's a Surrey thing?
Hardly bodes well for the future if the system is down on Day 1, does it!
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The phone service is now back.
My online application took 45 minutes from start to email confirmation.
I did not get an on screen confirmation
I am assuming by the time stamp on my email that the system returned at about 0950
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One wonders why the system is suddenly swamped - demand should be no higher than normal...unless an appreciable minority has mis-read the info and thinks ALL discs need to be renewed today - or perhaps they had been lax on renewing, but think the Gov has suddenly turned on 000's of ANPR cameras that are going to be sending out PCNs!
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Concentrated demand on the last day of the month is my guess. That said, I did mine at three in the afternoon and it took about two minutes, about the same as last year.
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>> One wonders why the system is suddenly swamped - demand should be no higher than
>> normal...unless an appreciable minority has mis-read the info and thinks ALL discs need to be
>> renewed today - or perhaps they had been lax on renewing, but think the Gov
>> has suddenly turned on 000's of ANPR cameras that are going to be sending out
>> PCNs!
I'm not sure why either but clearly, on figures quoted by BBC, there was such a surge. I wonder what it was in % terms as increase over last day of 09/13 or any other month. It does though suggest public awareness is higher than some have concluded.
Hopefully they'll be better prepared for next rush at end of this month.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29430979
"some motorists have spent up to 13 hours online, trying to get their car tax renewed"
They really need to get out more.
"DVLA apologised for the disruption, and advised people who need to renew their tax urgently to do so at a Post Office instead."
See, even they agree with me ;~)
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>>"DVLA apologised for the disruption, and advised people who need to renew their tax urgently to do so at a Post Office instead."
Impressive advice :-(
What magic have the PO got ?
The phone lines to the DVLA said the system was down.
So in my book that means the PO also has no access.
I think that is old info that someone has overlooked.
( unless the PO is still issuing paper.)
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>> What magic have the PO got ?
>> The phone lines to the DVLA said the system was down.
>> So in my book that means the PO also has no access.
>>
>> I think that is old info that someone has overlooked.
>> ( unless the PO is still issuing paper.)
Do you need an MoT cert at the PO or do they check on linewith DVLA? Even if they do it might be a different system.
If all they do is take your money and give a receipt, reconciling with DVLA later then it's easy fro them.
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My car had to be taxed about a month ago; it was new to me, the dealer couldn't tax it on the day, the tax disc was expiring at the end of August and DVLA hadn't yet got me the docs.
All the paperwork you would take in the old days (insurance, MOT) was rejected by the PO as unnecessary - they just used that little tear off bit the dealer gave me on picking up the car. So they looked stuff up on online in some manner I imagine.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 1 Oct 14 at 14:27
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makes driving around with false number plates a lot easier , as theres nothing else on the vehicle to check it against....ANPR wont be able to tell either
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>> makes driving around with false number plates a lot easier , as theres nothing else
>> on the vehicle to check it against....ANPR wont be able to tell either
>>
ANPR can't tell but a cross reference of Vin and number plate with DVLA would, maybe this will become a routine check during stops.
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Did you ever get to Italy by car this summer zookeeper ? Sorry if I missed a post. Was away quite a bit around then too !
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>> Do you need an MoT cert at the PO or do they check on linewith DVLA? Even if they do it might be a different system.
>>
Surely, you go in with the renewal letter/form thing from DVLA and everything has already been checked.
No?
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I had the bike on SORN for just August this year. I went into the local PO about 3rd September with just the V5C and me credit card and that's all they needed to renew the tax.
I'll remove the disc and frame it as the last one I'll ever get in 52 yrs of buying them !
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Heard today on the radio that the AA will issue members a 'dummy' paper disc if they feel their cars look naked without one.
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I've just printed a Guiness label and stuck it on my windscreen.
I've always wanted to do that.
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Where've you been then? I've missed teasing you about your skinny tyres and Lycra problem.
;-)
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>> Where've you been then? I've missed teasing you about your skinny tyres and Lycra problem.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
Hi Runfer, you still haven't got yourself an adult bike then? :-)
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>> I've just printed a Guiness label and stuck it on my windscreen.
>>
>> I've always wanted to do that.
>>
There's never been a law saying you weren't allowed to stick a Guiness label on your car.
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>> There's never been a law saying you weren't allowed to stick a Guiness label on
>> your car.
But in lieu of the tax disc?
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I think the point is that it was the absence of the tax disc rather than the presence of the Guinness Label that constituted the offence.
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>> I've just printed a Guiness label and stuck it on my windscreen.
Why not put two there.
Just to be sure, to be sure ;)
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Its a pink disc this year.
What colours would future years have been ?
A National Trust car park sticker might help those with withdrawal problems
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A National Trust car park sticker might help...
The LEC has one of those too (dated 2012) that Mrs Beest put in. It's getting the same treatment as the tax disc holder just below it. I'm going naked.
};---)
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One of the reasons I stuck a Guinness label on the screen is that the VIN number or whatever it is that is riveted to the dash casts it's reflection just where the disc used to be, and small as it is it kept catching my eye in a rather distracting fashion.
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My 2014 car does not have a VIN number that is visible to one and all. Is this a new security measure across the board or just a Toyota thing?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 2 Oct 14 at 18:12
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>> Is this a new security measure ?
>>
New variation on an old theme.
Cars used to have the ignition key number stamped on the lock. So one could peer in, read the number (FS 235 or something ), pop into Halfords and buy a key no. FS 235, and drive off.
They cracked down on that loophole after 50 years, but then after about 20 years realised that displaying the VIN No. on the top of the dashboard was another security lapse.
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>> New variation on an old theme.
>>
Must be new, my last three cars have had a visible VIN
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I sometimes wonder at the sanity of some folk. Motorcycle tax disc holders have been a pain in the backside for as long as I can remember; cheaper ones leaked or fell apart due to vibration, the fancy expensive ones use about eight fiddly little CDS screws to hold them together which makes changing the disc a twenty minute job. It was often a challenge to fit them somewhere visible to the authorities but away from upflung crud and spray, and before colour copiers and ANPR they were a constant target of opportunist thieves who would nick'em and shove the disc in their illegal car.
You'd think we'd be glad to see the back of them wouldn't you?
But no; some of the members of our club have now asked for (and got) a pdf file which produces a disc showing the club roundel badge in the correct size to fit into a tax disc holder. By and large these are the people who wear Harley t-shirts, jackets, trousers and probably branded underpants as well for all I know. Not as if the public are left uncertain as to what they ride.
(Shakes head in despair)
Last edited by: Harleyman on Thu 2 Oct 14 at 18:57
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"but then after about 20 years realised that displaying the VIN No. on the top of the dashboard was another security lapse"
I would say that 90% of cars I collect or deliver have the VIN number visible in bottom of windscreen on dashboard on passenger side. It's the first thing we have to check to make sure we are collecting correct car.
Exceptions I can think of are:-
Toyota Hilux (on passenger side door jambe (sp?))
Sprinter vans - inside bonnet somewhere
Old Pugs - under bonnet
Susukis - in the boot!
Lots of MBs and BMWs second hand where people have put there parking place ticket on dashboard and it has slipped down and covered the vin number!! So then under bonnet it is
P
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System still crashed.
I see they are claiming an unprecedented demand which was predicted. Hey????
Surely the number of people wishing to renew for the 1st October would be the same tax disc or no tax disc.
Both my bikes need the rent paying. Go to the local Post Office is the solution given. In view of the fact that a lot of 'local' POs have shut down and my bike is not taxed that could prove difficult :)
They could have gone public with an amnesty providing vehicles are taxed from 1st Oct.
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Maybe a lot of people who have had untaxed cars for a long time are a bit worried about ANPR cameras and a fine in the post.
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The tax disc was academic really. Either SORN'd or taxed. No other options. All on their ??? database. If neither fine in the post.
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>> I see they are claiming an unprecedented demand which was predicted. Hey????
>> Surely the number of people wishing to renew for the 1st October would be the
>> same tax disc or no tax disc.
Oh, sure numbers are same. But the lack of even a theoretical need to be able to produce disc on 01/10 combined with worry about risk of being caught by camera as soon as 00:01 on 01/10 meant people went for option of 'instant renewal at last minute'.
Surprise surprise, just like HMRC's system in self assessment day or A. N. Other's music booking site on Rolling Stones forthcoming gig the web goes apes***t and cannot ope.
Up o 20:00 on 30/09 and after early doors 01/10/14 system worked with customary efficiency.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 2 Oct 14 at 21:05
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They could have gone public with an amnesty providing vehicles are taxed from 1st Oct.
Wot and diminish the chances of fining people? Remember, it's the nearly law abiding that keep them in business, the real criminals don't care...
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The figures quotes IIRC by the AA were that the +30K = a 15% increase and a decent system should be able to cope with that increase in demand
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>a decent system should be able to cope with that increase in demand
My guess is that the server thread pool was full of Joes and Janes dithering over the 'Confirm Payment' button.
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>> The figures quotes IIRC by the AA were that the +30K = a 15% increase
>> and a decent system should be able to cope with that increase in demand
Thats a 15% increase over the already planned for 15% peak. So thats 30% You want the DVLA to provide that it can. They will be happy to make you pay 30% more road tax.
"I want" costs money, "I want it now" costs even more. Applies in everything.
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Apologies if this has already been said.
The DVLA has a database of every vehicle in the country - everything, from mopeds, through cars to busses and HGVs.
Every vehicle in the country should be either taxed or SORNed. Send a ticket to the registered keeper of every vehicle that isn't either taxed or SORNed.
Why not?
Or is that simply too simple and straightforward for the official mind?
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>> Every vehicle in the country should be either taxed or SORNed. Send a ticket to
>> the registered keeper of every vehicle that isn't either taxed or SORNed.
AFAIK that's pretty much what happens. Failure to re-tax certainly incurs a fine if it persists for more than 28 days. There's been a 'digital' sorn OR tax requirement for some years now.
OTOH there are likely to be many cars on the register that have been scrapped etc years ago, before current requirements were in place. The cars, the keepers and even the addresses on the register no longer exist.
Cleansing' that legacy data would be a mammoth task.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 3 Oct 14 at 10:01
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I omitted that the +15% was over last years demand for the same month.
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>>
>> "I want" costs money, "I want it now" costs even more. Applies in everything.
>>
Only in the public sector.
In the real world an upturn in sales of a product encourages more efficient production and delivery methods, benefits of mass production, falling prices.
Out go scribes writing out tax disks by hand, in comes efficient computerised systems and elimination of paperwork.
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Only in the public sector.
Not so. Price up an airline ticket to, say, Toronto, leaving in four weeks' time. Now price the same flight, same class, same length of stay - but leaving tomorrow. Same fare? I doubt it.
Or a train ticket to Edinburgh bought on the day, compared with an advance fare. I remember Mark Watson's joke about this.
Ticket agent: How will you be paying, sir?
Watson: Well, I've sold a few things, made sacrifices in other areas of my life...oh, I see what you mean.
Or even order something online and see what they'll charge you for next day delivery. Z's right: 'I want it now' costs. Anywhere.
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>>
>> Or even order something online and see what they'll charge you for next day delivery.
>> Z's right: 'I want it now' costs. Anywhere.
And neither are commercial websites immune from crashing with high demand or when something new is introduced.
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Has anyone noticed how few drivers have removed their 'tax discs' from their windscreens (me included because I just haven't got round to it!)
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People aren't bothering till the current disc runs out. I suspect many think you still have to display till then.
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>> Has anyone noticed how few drivers have removed their 'tax discs' from their windscreens
Mine is covering up a small stone chip that was repaired but is still visible. Without the disc in place it looks like a squashed fly on the windscreen.
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Presumably only about one in 12 have expired. Mine has, but the MB dealer's disc pocket is pretty firmly stuck on so I've left it in place for now rather than leave a sticky patch to attract fluff.
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>> >> Has anyone noticed how few drivers have removed their 'tax discs' from their windscreens
>>
>> Mine is covering up a small stone chip that was repaired but is still visible.
>> Without the disc in place it looks like a squashed fly on the windscreen.
I have a fascinating crack in the windscreen. Its started with a chip near the left A post and cracked after a hot day in Holland in June, The crack slowly lengthened on the journey home, and has now changed direction and is slowly heading for another chip. It will be interesting to watch before the screen gets changed for the MOT in Feb next year,
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The windscreen in the A3 is totally clear - no tax disc ever displayed. I am glad the dealer didn't stick the non-smoking sign on somewhere. That's in the glovebox.
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Doesn't look right without a tax disk. So it's staying - at least until the end of April...:-)
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>> I have a fascinating crack in the windscreen. Its started with a chip near the
>> left A post and cracked after a hot day in Holland in June, The crack
>> slowly lengthened on the journey home, and has now changed direction and is slowly heading
>> for another chip.
>>
Now, if you had heeded those auto windscreen adverts and had your chip repaired for free, you wouldn't be needing a new windscreen now, would you?
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>>Now, if you had heeded those auto windscreen adverts and had your chip repaired for free, you wouldn't be needing a new windscreen now, would you?
Ram the back of a bus and it's not just a 'screen you need!
Sorry! ;>)
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>> >>Now, if you had heeded those auto windscreen adverts and had your chip repaired for
>> free, you wouldn't be needing a new windscreen now, would you?
>>
>> Ram the back of a bus and it's not just a 'screen you need!
>>
>> Sorry! ;>)
>>
No. No.
"The bus drove into me".
He hasn't mentioned it of late?
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>> Now, if you had heeded those auto windscreen adverts and had your chip repaired for free, you
>> wouldn't be needing a new windscreen now, would you?
It depends. Last year I came back to the car and it had a big chip on the screen. Within two days it was a long crack. It needed a new windscreen.
The chip was on the bonded section of the screen so was never fixable.
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I'm going to leave them on my cars, or perhaps get some period reproductions of the first registration.
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I have a shed load of fraudulent tax discs in my desk at work. Used as teaching aids you understand. Now they may have some value :)
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Seriously? Do people really care enough about that bit of their windscreen to even consider whether or not you should remove redundant discs, never mind putting fakes in?
I have a BMW in the UK which has every disc its ever had in the car somewhere. And they'll stay there until I sell it. Like I care one way or another.
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>> Seriously? Do people really care enough about that bit of their windscreen to even consider
>> whether or not you should remove redundant discs, never mind putting fakes in?
>>
>> I have a BMW in the UK which has every disc its ever had in
>> the car somewhere. And they'll stay there until I sell it. Like I care one
>> way or another.
Someone has twocced it and is currently it driving backwards and forwards over the dartford crossing.
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Don't care, I shall appeal.
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As predicted, an uncut imperf disk in its original letter was worth keeping.
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Car tax changes - Zero
