05.30 today. 5 cars and a motorbike.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-29202445
Not much to discuss, but I wonder if the junction had anything to do with it.
|
Very sad for injured and rellies of the dead woman. We don't know anything about this morning but is there much traffic at 0530 and if not, does the prospect of a clear motorway lure some folk into giving it some beans ?
Is it still dark at that time...I don't know...I still have 3 hours to stay in bed.
|
That stretch is all newish, with cameras on the gantries. Most people would be wary I think.
It must be relatively quiet at that time, but I'd expect LGVs as always - none involved this time.
No mention of any visibility issues. I wasn't up at 5.30 this morning but it was a bit murky, no more, at 7-7.30. That location is about 12 miles north east of here.
|
>> northbound between junction 11 for Luton and junction 12
Isn't that Toddington services?
|
I think you're right, that's the services slip not the J12 one.
The picture caption is "The collision took place just after Toddington services near junction 12 of the M1".
Or just before, if on the northbound.
|
That has always been a tricky section of road if you don't know it. The motorway entry slip from the services joins the carriageway a very short distance from the exit slip for j12 - in fact during the recent remodelling of j12 they relocated the exit slip some 500m further along, so now it is after the junction with a loop back to the A5120.
There is provision for hard shoulder running on that stretch, but at 0530 I would be very surprised if any gantries were lit up - northbound traffic at that time is generally quiet and moving freely. The M1 approaching Toddington doesn't have very long sight lines - it sweeps downhill right then left and has three overbridges, after which the road rises over a crest. Approaching traffic doesn't have the best view of the state of traffic further ahead.
In my experience lane discipline there is poor. I often get "cut up" by car drivers leaving it very late to pull into the services in front of me, whether HSR is active or not. Hard to say what the cause here may have been but I suspect it's something along those lines.
Last edited by: Dave_C220CDI on Tue 16 Sep 14 at 10:42
|
I don't do much motorway driving, but I've recently noticed two risks associated with services slip roads, especially where these are short:
1) cars cutting across lane one in order to exit
2) faster cars merging early when rejoining the carriageway and then cutting up or blocking slower cars still trying to join.
|
(1) has been a problem for years and (2) likewise. The concept of merging and giving priority to cars already on the motorway is frequently not there and the joining traffic for want of a better word, just 'mugs' them. Anyone southbound on the M1 past junction 5 in the morning wanting to stay in lane 1 needs iron underwear.
I'm quite aware that one should make life easy for joiners, but moving to lane 2 will often then see a slow vehicle overtaken on the inside. Use of the metal objects by ones feet by the joiner would render the whole thing unnecessary, but would inconvenience the 'me, me, me' generation.
|
>> would inconvenience the 'me, me, me' generation.
But the privately-owned automobile is me, me, me all the way Sp, the rich man's toy par excellence, generalized. We all have a dash at least of Mr Toad, except of course for miserable mimsers who ought to use public transport. The thing a lot of people find difficult is knowing when to rein it in a bit and when to let it loose. It's a matter of commonsense and observation, both unfortunately in short supply. Tight trains moving at high speed are to be avoided at all costs. Never mind what the others are doing: make sure you are keeping a proper distance from the vehicle in front of you.
It's just commonsense for example to move into lane 2 when approaching an intersection with a stream of merging vehicles, unless of course they are going faster than you are, in which case you will just be getting in the way. Anyone can make a mistake of course but it's nearly always clear what the correct course of action should be in a fluid, dynamic situation. You just have to be quick in the uptake and not given to the panic or overreaction one sees so often on our roads.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 16 Sep 14 at 14:14
|
>> > You just have to be quick in the uptake
>> and not given to the panic or overreaction one sees so often on our roads.
>>
True, but try this:
I was rejoining the motorway from the services, can't remember which. Uphill slip road, I was going as fast as the car would go with a full load. There was plenty of space in lane one, so indicated and kept going.
Impatient driver behind me pulled out early onto the motorway, pulled alongside as I was quarter-way into the motorway lane 1, but couldn't pull ahead because we had now caught up the traffic in lane 1.
He tried to ignore me and block the lane. So I just kept on going and moved over gradually, and finally he dropped back, flashing his lights. He probably lost his nerve because his car was somewhat more valuable than mine.
What would you have done? Slow down, pull onto the hard shoulder as he ran me off the road?
|
>> What would you have done? Slow down, pull onto the hard shoulder as he ran
>> me off the road?
Same as you probably. Some people seem to take pleasure in making their own and others' lives more difficult.
When I used it almost daily, I would see this all the time on the very short uphill joining sliproad at Tring. An additional problem there is the inability to see the traffic you are trying to join until you are at the top of the slip road, so the prospective overtaker would often be blocking the view of the slower driver who in extreme cases would have to stop at the line while the overtaker joined lane 1.
I would often find myself hanging back to allow a slower car ahead to join, while positioning my car to block the selfish git behind, then accelerating hard into the space I had created to make sure I could get a good view myself when it was my turn.
I always aimed to be doing 70 by the time I got to the give way line, for optimum merging options, and usually managed to slide in, often several cars ahead of the Audi pushy one who would pointedly pass me about a mile further on at 100mph.
A bit of consideration all round would go a long way.
|
>> A bit of consideration all round would go a long way.
>>
Hear hear!
|
It's just commonsense for example to move into lane 2 when approaching an intersection with a stream of merging vehicles, unless of course they are going faster than you are, in which case you will just be getting in the way.
Agreed but in the example I gave, there are usually two streams of joiners and since it is downhill for them, quite often faster than lanes 1, and 2, and often 3 as well. I've seen some spectacular dodgy driving there; needless to say I am very alert to what is going on.
|
We've all been there CP and Sp, time and again. Of course the manoeuvre you describe results from a failure of intelligence as well as a breach of courtesy. A lot of toerags and idiots drive cars. Vans and lorries tend to be more sensible.
Does the driving test have a proper motorway section yet? I reckon the testers are too chicken for it, and I don't blame them.
|
There should be a motorway test or take learner drivers on it.My second lesson,old instructor right off we go put your foot down on the motorway we go.Not very fast mind you a VW Beetle>:)
|
That's ok if you have motorways in your neck of the woods.
|
>> in the example I gave, there are usually two streams of joiners and since it is downhill for them, quite often faster than lanes 1, and 2, and often 3 as well. I've seen some spectacular dodgy driving there
Yes Sp. If you watch your mirrors you can merge with a mimsing motorway and whip across to the outside lane in pretty short order. I've done it myself countless times, and I bet you have too when it seemed expedient.
Of course nature's mimsers sometimes pretend to be the Doubletake Brothers and pretend to be indignant, flashing and hooting, bad cess to the carphounds. Perhaps sometimes they really are surprised. One doesn't want that. But they shouldn't be half asleep.
I repeat, sometimes one makes a mistake and does something potentially dangerous. That's why nature's mimsers shouldn't be half asleep, innit?
The road is a risky place. You may not often risk your neck, but the risk of embarrassing scenes is perpetual.
|
>>That has always been a tricky section of road if you don't know it. The motorway entry slip from the services joins the carriageway a very short distance from the exit slip for j12 - in fact during the recent remodelling of j12 they relocated the exit slip some 500m further along, so now it is after the junction with a loop back to the A5120.
And they'll be putting a new junction in as well soon. Between J11 and Toddington services for a new M1-A5 link that'll join the A5 between Dunstable and Hockliffe.
www.highways.gov.uk/roads/road-projects/a5-m1-link-dunstable-northern-bypass/
|
Read that a girl on motorbike swerved to avoid car,came off. Others then try like hell to miss her and bike.a second 89 year old has now died.
|
Just seen this: It seemed likely that one of the fatalities was the motorcyclist, but apparently not.
www.northants.police.uk/#!/News/23969
Accident thought to have been caused when "one vehicle moved suddenly in front of the motorcycle which caused the rider to lose control and fall from her machine.
"Bedfordshire Police are seeking the drivers of two vehicles - a red car and white van - involved in the incident, for further information which may help piece together exactly what happened. "
|
Fatal multi-vehicle crash on M1 today - Ted
