| Motoring Discussion > Marked lanes at junctions | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: BobbyG | Replies: 17 |
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New Sat 28 Jun 14 19:21
Marked lanes at junctions - BobbyG
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Two scenarios: 1. Roundabout has 6 exits. Approaching roundabout at exit 1 to join roundabout and wanting to go off at exit 4. The sign on approach says that to do this you take the right hand lane. Therefore when you pass exit 3, you then switch lanes on the roundabout to go off at 4. Nearly every time I do this, there is a car on the inside lane of the roundabout which has came from the same junction as me but has went round the roundabout in the inside lane. I assume if I cut across him on the roundabout to take my exit then I would be at fault if I caused an accident? 2. Coming up High Street in Glasgow, two lanes, with the right hand lane having a right turn arrow painted in the lane. However it is very faded and of course, if there is a queue of vehicles you don't actually see the arrow on the ground. If you go in that lane and go straight on and cause an accident with a vehicle on the left hand lane who is to blame? Ultimately I suppose I am asking do lane markings and direction signs actually have any "legal" bearing in any accidents or are they for guidance only (like using your indicators). |
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New Sun 29 Jun 14 08:50
Marked lanes at junctions - Tigger
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| The dotted lines around a roundabout are lane markings, and you should always give way to someone already in that lane, just like you would on any other stretch of road |
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New Sun 29 Jun 14 10:32
Marked lanes at junctions - Cliff Pope
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>> The dotted lines around a roundabout are lane markings, and you should always give way >> to someone already in that lane, just like you would on any other stretch of >> road >> That sounds sensible. But how does it square with "Give way to traffic on the right on a roundabout"? Most people seem to take that to mean that fast traffic sweeping across to leave at one exit have priority over a slower vehicle just getting under way from entering at the previous one. |
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New Sun 29 Jun 14 10:16
Marked lanes at junctions - Manatee
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It's everybody's job to keep the flow going and avoid contact at roundabouts. If you do get a pushy git who tries to use the roundabout to overtake, knowing you either have to brake or run out of road, then he's not playing the game...but if you run into him don't expect to avoid any blame. Equally, if he's a bit ahead or alongside beforehand, you should be able to slot in behind without much effort as I'm sure you do. I tend to position myself alongside gaps, even small ones, where there is any lane merging going on - it clarifies the priority a bit! Once you are literally side by side, there's too much chance of a blinking competition. or an "after you, Claude" dither at the point where something has to give. Most frustrating when the traffic is queueing. There's a roundabout onto the A5 by M1 J9 that ends up as 3 or even 4 into 1. Road markings are either non-existent, worn to invisibility, or obscured by traffic. I find that occupying two 'lanes' gives me more options :) |
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New Sun 29 Jun 14 10:26
Marked lanes at junctions - Mike Hannon
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| You should try your luck in France, where there are two sets of access rules, depending whether the roundabout is in an urban environment. Both sets of rules are routinely ignored, through what seems to be a mixture of arrogance and ignorance. There is also a set of rules for conduct when on a roundabout, mostly ignored for the reasons above plus a large element of fear that encourages drivers to stick to the outside lane at all times. Bon chance! |
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New Sun 29 Jun 14 12:54
Inside out? - WillDeBeest
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Which lane of a roundabout is the 'inside'? Simple geometry says it's the one nearest the island, but that doesn't fit with Bobby's description. I think Mike agrees with me - or is he back to front because his roundabout is in France? Less bothered about precise lane taking at complex roundabouts - Manatee is exactly right about aligning early with a gap - than about (mostly) old duffers who signal right as they join and then do anything but. And some of them of them don't even drive a Honda. |
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New Sun 29 Jun 14 12:59
Inside out? - Armel Coussine
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The lane markings are for guidance only since they have to be crossed more often than not. Most people can scuffle through roundabouts more or less safely without causing trouble. There's a minority that can't do it to save their lives, and they are a damn nuisance. I don't know what people mean about overtaking through roundabouts. It's a commonplace manoeuvre. |
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New Sun 29 Jun 14 16:03
Inside out? - Manatee
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>> I don't know what people mean about overtaking through roundabouts. It's a commonplace manoeuvre. Of course. Too easy to ignore sometimes and often the only chance you get with the prats who convoy nose to tail. I do it myself, but without the qualifier I added - "knowing [the other party] either [has] to brake or run out of road" . |
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New Sun 29 Jun 14 16:29
Inside out? - ....
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>> I do it myself, but without the qualifier I added - "knowing [the other party] >> either [has] to brake or run out of road" . >> That's where having an old V8 Land Rover with bull bars trumps every time. You'd never run out of road in one of those unless the other party really enjoys filling in insurance paperwork. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 08:20
Inside out? - Cliff Pope
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>> I don't know what people mean about overtaking through roundabouts. It's a commonplace manoeuvre. >> It's inevitable by their very design. Slow traffic often accelerating from rest at one entry obviously gets overtaken by faster traffic that has already joined at an earlier entry. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 09:14
Inside out? - Fenlander
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A local roundabout that strikes fear into learners and the incapable has 4 lanes for 80% of its circumference & 3 lanes for the remaining 20%. The main route feeds in with 4 lanes, two of the exits are 2 lanes merging into 1 immediately, another exit is onto 2 lanes, one to a petrol station and the remaining two exits are 3 lane merging immediately to 2. I go over this roundabout 4 times a week and there is always fresh accident debris somewhere around it and I've seen two accidents already this year. The insurance companies must be very familiar with it. >>>I assume if I cut across him on the roundabout to take my exit then I would be at fault if I caused an accident? You'd think however last year we spent an agonising 9mths fighting a case where just this had happened to our daughter while learning with L plates displayed and the legal argument was that she (i.e. anyone on a roundabout) should expect and be prepared for unexpected lane changing at exits by other drivers. By not anticipating she was to be cut up and run into she was initially held 50% responsible and it took months of argument to shift that position because we found in general insurance companies deem pretty well every roundabout accident to be 50:50. And just to clarify how unfair it was... she was using the left lane of the roundabout (2 lane but no markings) to go straight over 2nd exit and the guy took the 1st exit sweeping round her from the lane to her right. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 09:47
Inside out? - Cliff Pope
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>>and the >> guy took the 1st exit sweeping round her from the lane to her right. >> I see that a lot. I'm often in his position. I'm in the inner ring, indicating right, and then switch to indicating left to take exit 3. As I pass exit 2, someone tries to join the roundabout by forcing me to give way and let them on. I'm working to the "Give way to the right" rule, he's working to the "Give way to traffic if you are changing lanes " rule. I've no idea who is right. Usually it's the driver in the faster car or with the more nerve. But that's no help in training a learner. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 11:21
Inside out? - Manatee
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I assumed that Fenlander meant that his daughter joined at 6 oclock to take the exit at 12. Other car also joined at 6 oclock, attempted to overtake on the roundabout and exit at 9. That would make it his bad driving in my book, in the absence of any other information. Not saying it was a factor in the case of Fendlander's daughter, but speed difference creates problems on roundabouts. It's a fairly extreme example, but getting where you want to go can be very difficult at say Handy Cross (M40/A404) unless you can get some speed up or you are driving an 8 wheel tipper. The regulars are absolute loonies, and don't stop when the lights go red either unless they have some cameras now. The bottom line with roundabouts is you have to look after your own interests, have good reactions and eyes everywhere. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 11:41
Inside out? - Cliff Pope
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>> I assumed that Fenlander meant that his daughter joined at 6 oclock to take the >> exit at 12. Other car also joined at 6 oclock, attempted to overtake on the >> roundabout and exit at 9. >> >> That would make it his bad driving in my book, in the absence of any >> other information. >> I agree - no doubt there. But supposing A joins at 6 oclock, intending to leave at 12. While half way between 6 and 9, B comes fast from 3 and exits at 9, and collides at say 7.30. Who is at fault - A because he did not give way to a car on the roundabout approaching from his right? Or B, because he changed lane and collide with A? The first would mean that A ought to have stopped on the roundabout to let perhaps a succession of cars cut across to exit at 9. The second would mean that B stops on the roundabout to let A and perhaps more behind push onto the roundabout. It all works smoothly where all exits keep flowing fast, and cars just merge and slip into gaps. But the aim now seems to be place obstructions on roundabouts to slow traffic down and disrupt the flow. Vegetation, pedestrian crossings, traffic lights, etc all mean that often traffic that has only just accelerated from near-rest is mixed in with traffic going at 50 mph. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 11:53
Inside out? - Manatee
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| B has completely failed to change lanes correctly prior to his exit and is probably an arrogant git. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 11:52
Inside out? - commerdriver
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>> can be very difficult at say Handy Cross (M40/A404) >> ... unless they have some cameras now. >> I am one of the regulars on this one, and no I don't believe there are any cameras there. It is not a difficult roundabout for most routes if you follow the lane markings and get yourself in the correct lane but, like every other big roundabout (eg m4 j11) there are those who possibly accidentally but probably deliberately, try to take a quicker route in the wrong lane and push in at the last moment. As with every other aspect of driving, I try to let the loonies get on with it and keep out of their way. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 11:56
Inside out? - Manatee
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| Sorry commerdriver, I hope it's obvious I should have said some of the regulars are loonies. |
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New Mon 30 Jun 14 13:26
Inside out? - Fenlander
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>>>I assumed that Fenlander meant that his daughter joined at 6 oclock to take the exit at 12. Other car also joined at 6 oclock, attempted to overtake on the roundabout and exit at 9. >>>That would make it his bad driving in my book, in the absence of any other information. Yep that was exactly it. I think he thought he could get past "the learner" between entering at 6 and leaving at 9 but just ended up swiping across the front of Mrs F's car. While it was just between insurance companies he was adamant daughter was "in the wrong lane" and fully to blame so his and our insurance decided to carve it up 50:50 for easy admin. It was only when we invoked legal protection (itself not a smooth process) he realised he would have to lie in court to uphold his previous stance and he caved in. It was a wilfully careless bit of driving on his part which undermined daughters confidence in learning and made my wife stop ever taking her out again for practice. He lived only 15mins from us and despite my very mild nature it was as much as I could do not to go and "have it out" on his doorstep. |
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