Reported on a number of sites.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-26728287
Read the article in the DT on the Civic Estate - on the whole favourable but they thought it was quite expensive.............IMHO all the Hondas seem to have become a lot dearer of late.
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Honda seem to be loosing their mojo, they no longer seem to have the same strong image that they did ten years ago. I suspect the Quashai (or however it has spelt) has taken a lot of sales away too.
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I had a call from one of our local Honda dealers this morning reminding me that the best time to buy a new car was during the last few days of the quarter, and inviting me to take a test drive.
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>> Honda seem to be loosing their mojo, they no longer seem to have the same
>> strong image that they did ten years ago. I suspect the Quashai (or however it
>> has spelt) has taken a lot of sales away too.
>>
I think that you are right Rattle. There is nothing in their current range that appeals to me & it appears that I am not alone in that. We had two of the last generation Civics on the fleet at work and after the wow factor of the dashboard had worn off you were left with a poorly built car with a dreadful ride which was not even reliable.
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We've seen it all before with Renault, once one of the most popular brands in the UK and then started offering average cars from around 2006, sales dropped. Thankfully some of the latest Renaults do like quite interesting, the Twingo is a car I would be tempted to buy.
I used to be a fan of the old Accord, but they kept making it and making it, so a brand new one looked identical to an 8 year old. I don't think I have seen a single new Accord.
That space ship Civic has probably caused Honda a lot of damage. What they are left with is a Victor Meldrew brand that doesn't have a Volvo reliability image.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4icMkZkAeQ
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High prices and challenging looks are bound to result in fewer sales.
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I sat in the new Civic estate last week whilst putting Jazz in for service ... Nice but very dark inside and at £26k I wondered who would buy it... It was also very low so entry for the older more fat driver or passenger was likely to be challenging. But mainly it was DARK inside. Gloomy..Positively sepulchral.
Not for me..
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I wonder how much shutting down the small friendly long established dealers has cost them?
Having said that, our new one is very proactive - almost annoyingly so.
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>> It was also very low so entry for the older more fat driver or passenger
>> was likely to be challenging.
Yup - sums up the average Honda driver.......
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>> We've seen it all before with Renault, once one of the most popular brands in
>> the UK and then started offering average cars from around 2006, sales dropped.
Sales fell of the cliff because of the terrible reliability. Renault cars prior to 2006 were interesting
Thankfully some
>> of the latest Renaults do like quite interesting,
The latest renaults look DIRE. The latest Twingo is the least interesting of the bunch.
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Lagunas were shi-ite from 2001 - they were supposed to have improved after 2006.
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But they were better looking and more interesting in 2001 than the later models. Unreliablity was endemic tho.
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>> I suspect the Quashai (or however it has spelt) has taken a lot of sales away too.
I think Kia/Hyundai is new Honda.
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>> I think Kia/Hyundai is new Honda.
>>
>>
Could be but they are not the good value they were when they were establishing themselves in the UK. My Ceed estate list price was ~16K four years ago, its equivalent replacement now is over 21K. I bought a spotless top of the range end of lease Motability Hyundai ix35 20,000 miles for less than half list price
Last edited by: Uncle Albert on Tue 25 Mar 14 at 17:53
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I think they have a heart condition.
In as much as some brands are bought with the heart ruling the head but Hondas never really seemed to evoke that response.
They are as sensible as an M&S suit and as desirable.
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Hondas are ugly. The last one I'd have been happy to be seen in was the Prelude.
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They are really just missing the market in all areas - they have no single model that is a best in class and a brand with a confused image.
While trying to attract younger buyers they alienated older ones with the Civic which I guess was their best seller.
Coverage here on the local news and they wheeled out some industry expert who was very critical of them. Accused them of hiding behind the economy as an excuse when the real issue was the product line up
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Amazing how many people know more about the car business than the car makers...
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Sounds a bit like BL then minus the strikes! They used the excuse of "people are not buying our cars" and it seem to take them a long time to release the days of buying just because they are British are over.
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Yeah, you'd buy a Ford or Vauxhall or a Nissan or whatever if you just want practicality without it being too expensive. A VW or an Audi if you live in Acacia Avenue in Nicetown. A Skoda if you're a bit tight, anything Korean if you've lost, or never had, any personal pride. A Fiat if you like little cars, a BMW if you're a bit of a knob, a Mercedes if you're refined, erudite and grown up, a Porsche if you're a dentist, a Bentley or an Aston Martin if you're a footballer.
It's difficult to think who buys Hondas though.
Old people probably.
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>> anything Korean if you've lost, or never had, any personal pride. >>
The Koreans are the new Japanese, and they wiped out UK car and bike manufacturing by giving value and quality.
Cheeky sod. :-)
Last edited by: Uncle Albert on Tue 25 Mar 14 at 20:54
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>> Yeah, you'd buy a Ford or Vauxhall or a Nissan or whatever if you just
>> want practicality without it being too expensive. A VW or an Audi if you live
>> in Acacia Avenue in Nicetown. A Skoda if you're a bit tight, anything Korean if
>> you've lost, or never had, any personal pride. A Fiat if you like little cars,
>> a BMW if you're a bit of a knob, a Mercedes if you're refined, erudite
>> and grown up, a Porsche if you're a dentist, a Bentley or an Aston Martin
>> if you're a footballer.
To greater and lesser degrees I'm all of those things, RDH, and I expect most of us are. Except dentist and footballer. Although I do like to tie bits of string round my children's wobbly teeth and have a kick about with the lads occasionally.
Mercedes has always struck me as the brand for those trying to show off. The I-live-in-Henly-on-Thames-dontcha-know of cars. Wouldn't be seen dead in one, apart from an old one.
Hondas? Meh. I'd get one of the old shape Civics autos for the missus, or a nice Legend for myself if I didn't want an estate, but that's about it.
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Mercedes has always struck me as the brand for those trying to show off. The I-live-in-Henley-on-Thames-dontcha-know of cars.
Never been to Southall, Vić? Place is full of them.
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>> Never been to Southall, Vić? Place is full of them.
>>
Oh yeah. Two tone gold and rust 1998 W210s. I was talking about shiny new (always silver) ones.
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Mine's black, is permanently muddy, usually has a roof rack on, I'm usually in scruffy jeans and I live in Cheshire so does that mean I can get away with it?
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I suppose I ought to be devastated.
;-)
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Indeed. But shameless is as shameless does.
;-)
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>> While trying to attract younger buyers they alienated older ones with the Civic which I
>> guess was their best seller.
A bit like M&S !
I always thought that they had an odd engine line up in the last Civic. 1.4/1.8 Petrol or 2.2 Diesel.
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No sporty/halo model (CRZ is a joke, Accord 2.4i is less competitive than my Kizasushi)
Too slow with a petrol turbo (VTEC turbo in the next Civic Type R will be an absolute weapon in my reckoning).
CRV is pretty much the large family model, so alienates anyone not wanting a 4x4 stylee.
They're not dead in the UK but need these new engines fast, and realistic pricing.
The 1.6 diesel is really very good compared with the competititon but the current Civic is too flawed a car to carry it off.
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>> While trying to attract younger buyers they alienated older ones with the Civic which I
>> guess was their best seller.
>>
It is staggering how they messed that up - Civic used to be driven by young lads who liked the Type R and old ladies. Then they changed it and managed to alienate everyone.
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I bought a 57 reg Civic diesel last year, despite the styling, despite the dashboard, because it was a diesel without a DPF and on the strength of Honda's reputation.
To say the least I am somewhat underwhelmed by it. The diesel engine is strong but the ride is not good (and my previous car was a BMW on runflats), the dashboard is far too gimmicky for my liking and the fuel consumption is nothing special. It had an MOT last month and picked up an advisory for the beginnings of corrosion.
My first and probably last Honda.
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>> In as much as some brands are bought with the heart ruling the head but
>> Hondas never really seemed to evoke that response.
>>
"Love" would probably be too stong a word, but when we came to change wifey's Jazz she didn't even want to look at anything else so we got another one.
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Colleague used to work for Honda on the commercial side of things. Told me they blew the budget on the starship dash so costs had to be cut in other areas to bring it back on budget.
Couple of other guys at work used to run them. The petrol one was OK, but the diesel suffered a lot with issues. The guy had moved out of a seat, but was so disappointed that he went back to VAG with a golf
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When the bearings went noisy on my wife's Jazz, she was ready for a replacement.
Her natural inclination was another Jazz, but the latest one has done away with the simple dash design of the old one, and there are buttons everywhere. Not her idea of fun at all.
She bought a Yaris instead - which does have an easy-to-use dash.
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Owned 3 Hondas o'er the years, nothing special about em, apart from their reliability of course.
LQQKED @ the CRV when considering a SUV but - it didn't do an awful lot for me TBH, unlike the Forester.
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I'm using an '04' plate Honda Accord 2.2 DTi Executive estate at the moment as a run around. It's got 157K on the clock, it's the tow hitch I wanted..and space.
Nice car. Drives well, goes well, looks good, with a load of kit on it.
I'd agree the newer Civic wouldn't be for me, but speaking as I find, this one is lovely.
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I think Honda and Subaru both made the same mistake in distancing themselves from the Type Rs and WRXs.
As said above, Civics and Imprezzas used to be driven by young lads who liked the Type R and WRX. Then they graduated to Accords and Legacys (maybe even Type R /Spec B), or Foresters and CRVs. But they kept buying Honda or Subaru.
Honda's other market was "reliable transport for elderly motorists", who are more likely now to buy VW/Toyota/Hyundai if the Honda alternative is inaccessible and unreliable.
Subaru's other market was country vets and estate managers, who are now faced with a plethora of small SUVs and 4x4 estate to choose from. The 'lifestyle' buyer will probably plump for the Audi Allroad or Volvo XC.
Strangely, an Accord diesel auto estate would have been my first choice to replace the Legacy (until the diesel auto came out, at least) if I'd had to do so. But then my choice of cars has always been odd...
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Funnily enough Subaru are doing just fine in other markets as are Honda. In Australia (OK a small market) they are an almost defacto choice for reliable family transport particularly Foresters and Outbacks. They suit the roads here and petrol is considerably cheaper of course.
Honda do well but mostly with CRVs and Accords - all 2.4L Petrol and considered as economical too by local standards (ok so petrol is cheap).
I've whinged about our Civic FN3 experience before, totally put me off Honda, however I've never been able to get a Merc since we were in a dealer in the late 1990s considering a C Class and talking to the salesrep. A late-middle age lady came in and said hello to the salesrep on her way to the service reception. Dressed in too-young jeans and gold lame pumps with matching handbag, SWMBO said 'you're not having one'. We bought an Audi IIRC (before their sales success changed their image too). Has Merc's image changed since ?
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=>Funnily enough Subaru are doing just fine in other markets as are Honda.
Funnily enough I received this from Subaru today:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEMfRidsM5U&feature=youtu.be
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>
>> never been able to get a Merc since we were in a dealer in the
>> late 1990s considering a C Class and talking to the salesrep. A late-middle age lady
>> came in and said hello to the salesrep on her way to the service reception.
>> Dressed in too-young jeans and gold lame pumps with matching handbag,
>> Has Merc's image changed since ?
No not at all - sounds like our average LEC driver on here.
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>>>using an '04' plate Honda Accord 2.2 DTi Executive estate at the moment... 157K on the clock.... Nice car. Drives well, goes well, looks good, with a load of kit on it.
I'm actively looking for an older diesel estate to replace my saloon Alfa. The intention is that it will be another Alfa but I do open the filter on Autotrader to all makes most days to see what's about. I click on Accord estates as they often are in good condition for mileage and look interesting... but I think Mapmaker says his is uninspiring??
Of course if I widen the search to include Accords then A4/A6, V70, C-Class, X-Type etc fall into the net and the choice gets a bit confusing.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 26 Mar 14 at 09:53
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>> I'm actively looking for an older diesel estate to replace my saloon Alfa. The intention
>> is that it will be another Alfa but I do open the filter on Autotrader
>> to all makes most days to see what's about. I click on Accord estates as
>> they often are in good condition for mileage and look interesting... but I think Mapmaker
>> says his is uninspiring??
I'm not so sure about 'uninspiring', although that would be subjective. My brother drives it as well and he doesn't like the light steering, but to my mind it grows on you and is 'easy'. It goes well enough, handles alright, economy o.k. Good all rounder IMO.
>>
>> Of course if I widen the search to include Accords then A4/A6, V70, C-Class, X-Type
>> etc fall into the net and the choice gets a bit confusing.
I much prefer to drive wifey's diesel X Type est...but...don't want too much business mileage put on it and didn't want to pay for a tow hitch.
Honda has a sunroof as well, which is nice. If I bought a car new it would have to have one of those.
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I have a current shape petrol Civic and I really like it. In the past I have had Mondeos, BMW 3, Saab 9-5 turbo, Accord diesel and of the lot I prefer the Civic. Why? I like the vtec ability to amble then give a reasonable push when needed, the chain cam engine, sensible wheels and tyres, seat quality, boot space and styling. Unfortunately it gets middling reviews from many professional reviewers (who may well have different priorities to the man in the street) . Owner reviews are much more positive. I agree however Honda to have lost touch with some markets with some aspects. In particular although I personally like the dash and don't mind the infamous spoiler, I don't know why they persisted with these when they are such easy targets to criticise and put people off. Of their other models I've had the Jazz as a courtesy car and it seems fine if a tad expensive and by no means a looker and the CRV seems to be OK. Maybe the new Type R Civic will give the range a bit more kudos but how they attract back their traditional buyer is more of a challenge.
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Sad, isn't it? If ever a company lost its way it was Honda. And I'm speaking as a Honda owner on and off - mostly on - for 47 years.
I've had the latest generation diesel Accord for a year now and done 25k kilometres with complete reliability and reasonable economy for such a bulky motor. The auto box is the best I've ever had - and I've had many. All the high-tech gizmos seem to work well, too. But the darn thing is too big for what it is - as witness an attempt by four of us to go touring a few weeks ago when we found the leg and footroom in the back is poor, as is the luggage capacity.
And it's pretty ugly and badly finished.
I thought I'd keep it for a year and then turn it in and take the drop to get something more appealing but now the time has come I really can't be bothered when I look at the alternatives. The only thing that appeals is a smallish Mercedes coupe but - as with Hondas - the latest ones all seem to be uglier than their predecessors and for practical reasons I need something recent.
Honda just seem to have made an issue of ignoring what was their main market.
If they made a Jazz with the new 1.6 diesel I think I would be tempted but they don't and, anyway, the Jazz for the French market is made in China, which rules it out for me.
I dunno...
And by the way, I am 63 years old, 6ft 1in and just on 14 stone which makes me what the French call 'costeaud' - sturdy - not fat.
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Honda is like IKEA for me.
Overpriced, utilitarian, kooky, subtly pretentious, trumpets faux-innovation and up it's own backside.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 27 Mar 14 at 01:36
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Honda to me means two wheels.
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>> Honda to me means two wheels.
>>
Most lawn mowers have four wheels
So does an NSX.
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>> >> Honda to me means two wheels.
>> >>
>> Most lawn mowers have four wheels
>> So does an NSX.
>>
Their outboard engines don't have any. :-)
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Is Honda Swindon producing cars which are less reliable than those produced in Nippon?
Genuine enquiry, as my 02 Jazz is Japan built, I understand.
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Given how reliable other UK jap cars are I doubt it is that. I think the reliability issues Honda have are all down to design. The Civic dash was too complex and I wonder if cheaper parts were sourced to cut costs.
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My 8th generation Accord was built in Japan. My conclusion is that Japanese industrial relations and hence working practices and standards of finish are now going the way of the UK in the 1970s.
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The Civic business was a textbook repositioning error in marketing terms. Honda wanted to change perceptions and extend its appeal to younger more adventurous customers, perhaps concerned that the old ones would not be replaced when they fell off the twig.
They got it wrong - failed to appeal enough to the new customer groups, and lost the old ones.
Elements of that I think with the CRV too, though who knows who they they thought they were appealing to with the hideous snout on the Mk3. The addition of Rodius rear windows and tacky bits of silver painted plastic randomly scattered around the cabin detracted from its appeal to those who liked the simple utility of the Mk2.
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I don't think CRV was built solely for UK tastes:) More important markets get first dibs. Hence US style "taste".
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Well I suppose that would explain the tacky bits of plastic!
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I quite like them though. Might campaign, to move away from VAG turbo (1.8TSI) in favour of the Honda petrol engine. Boring but good. Think madam will baulk though. Need Pat to teach her to drive a truck:) Then she wouldn't mind.
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Easy...close eyes and select narrow gear is the way I do it:)
Pat
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>> I don't think CRV was built solely for UK tastes:) More important markets get first
>> dibs. Hence US style "taste".
>>
It's also aimed way lower in the market in the US than it is here. It's a pretty cheap car there. In the UK it's massively overpriced for what it is.
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Honda - Cutting 3rd shift @Swindon - 500+ to lose jobs - RattleandSmoke
