| Computer Related > Ubuntu | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Robin O'Reliant | Replies: 51 |
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New Wed 5 Mar 14 18:38
Ubuntu - Robin O'Reliant
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I'm getting a new PC in the not too distant. Rather than getting something with Windows I've thought about a clean machine and installing Ubuntu. Is it non-geek friendly, or a troublesome pain in the butt? Office stuff and internet use only. |
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New Wed 5 Mar 14 20:32
Ubuntu - RichardW
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It's pretty much the same as windows these days. Except it's much faster, and more stable! You will need to learn a few new things - some things are in different places (eg the close buttons are at the top left rather than right - but this will be no more difficult than going to the abomination that is Win8 by all accounts (not had the misfortune to have to use it yet!). Some printers have better driver support than others - Canon are poor (but there are workarounds), others are better (I think Epson provide Linux drivers). This machine is dual boot, but I only ever use Windows to run the Diagbox software to interrogate the cars - and then I realise how poor it is! Ubuntu is ready to go on the net in <30s - Windows takes 3+ minutes (and this is a relatively clean Vista install) - and even then it is whirring away in the background for several minutes doing 'housekeeping'. There's no need to worry about anti-virus, or getting one - there just aren't any. You can try it for size - download it, burn it onto CD and boot it from there without installing to give it a try out. Do a bit of research that it is OK on the machine you want to buy - there were some Samsung laptops where trying to install Ubuntu killed the motherboard.... I've been running it about 2 years now - can't imagine going back to Win on a home machine. |
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New Wed 5 Mar 14 20:47
Ubuntu - RattleandSmoke
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As longs as you are aware certain printers etc might not work with it. I have tried it with a few customers with very mixed results. I use a Ubuntu derivative on my netbook and I use it on my data recovery system as it is very good at reading corrupt NTFS partitions that Windows just wants to format. Personally when I am building systems for customers most my customers would prefer to pay the £75 for Windows but my customers are not that technical. Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Wed 5 Mar 14 at 20:47
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New Wed 5 Mar 14 22:18
Ubuntu - No FM2R
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I've been considering this and recommended to look at Mint. Any comments? |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 15:20
Ubuntu - Zero
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Recently rebuilt a PC and for cost reasons I put Ubuntu on it It was returned for a copy of windows cos it just didn't offer all that a windows machine does And doesn't run all the well used windows utilities For home use for a non techy user its still a pile of crack, always was always will be |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 16:50
Ubuntu - movilogo
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If you install Windows 7 on a clean hard disk, this can be very sleek experience. Most computers come with bundled adware etc which slows PC down. Clean install of Windows 7 doesn't have this problem. Nowadays, Linux experience is not that different from Windows. Unless you work in command prompt mode, the look and feel are very similar. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 18:19
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> Nowadays, Linux experience is not that different from Windows. Unless you work in command prompt >> mode, the look and feel are very similar. Really and truly not the case. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 19:21
Ubuntu - Robin O'Reliant
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I use Open Office on Win7 and I have no trouble getting it to open Word and Excel documents, if it can do the same on the Linux version that'll do for me. What are the problems with Linux then Zeddo? |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 19:42
Ubuntu - Bromptonaut
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Z will reply in his own time but... I've used Ubuntu a couple of times to recover user files from HDDs that appear FUBAR in Windows. If gone on to use it for simple browsing and playing music. Beyond that it's a steep learning curve. If you've time and patience it might be possible to get printers and MS Ofice subs like Open Office type software to work but.... If you're at point where Windows is what you use at work, is pretty intuitive and all you want is a white goods type experience then Ubuntu is hard work. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 21:45
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> Z will reply in his own time but... >> >> I've used Ubuntu a couple of times to recover user files from HDDs that appear >> FUBAR in Windows. I use various distros of Linux for technical reasons, I have all sorts with various tools, some that boot from USB sticks, sd cards, CDs and use them often to fix stuff. Don't and won't use it for home PCs tho, too much faffing around. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 6 Mar 14 at 21:45
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 19:59
Ubuntu - No FM2R
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Open Office or Libre will do most things with MS Office files. But complex or conditional formatting, or complex macros across worksheets or books don't tend to migrate well. I'm sure there's more, but those two give me grief. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 22:06
Ubuntu - Kevin
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>I'm sure there's more, but those two give me grief. But that's because MS Office file formats are proprietary. Office generates approx 60% of MS's bottom line so they'll do whatever they can to protect that revenue. Even when market forces have forced MS to comply with open standards they have adopted a policy of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish". They use their dominance on the desktop to gradually add "enhancements and features" that deviate from the standard and thereby break compatibility with competing products. The end result is that existing documents produced in Office may not be readable in 10 years time if MS decides to make changes and hold everyone to ransom. That's fine for individuals or private organisations but no public document should be stored in anything other than open standards format. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 22:11
Ubuntu - No FM2R
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>>But that's because MS Office file formats are proprietary. Absolutely, and damned annoying it is too. But since I have to handle others' business plans and submit my versions and they have to be totally compatible, then there is little I can do about it. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 22:24
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> >I'm sure there's more, but those two give me grief. >> >> But that's because MS Office file formats are proprietary. Office generates approx 60% of MS's >> bottom line so they'll do whatever they can to protect that revenue. On the other hand, "open standards" are slow to develop and won't always contain the ability to showcase your products rich feature set so why cripple yourself by only offering "open standards" If you want your docs created with MS office products to be open, you only have to save them in such formats. Its not as tho MS only allows you to use their own office document standards. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 22:58
Ubuntu - Kevin
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>On the other hand, "open standards" are slow to develop and won't always contain the ability to showcase >your products rich feature set so why cripple yourself by only offering "open standards" As I said, individuals and private companies are free to use whatever they want, I have no problem with that. My gripe is with documents that are of public record being stored in proprietary formats. Proprietary formats are also a barrier to innovation, keeping the little man out. >Its not as tho MS only allows you to use their own office document standards. I've seen quite simple documents (without macros) supposedly stored in OpenDoc format by Office that lose all their formatting when opened by Libre or OpenOffice. Similarly, I've seen simple documents created by Libre/OpenOffice that are trashed when opened by Office. |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 08:40
Ubuntu - Zero
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all you have proved is that open doc standards are nothing of the sort. (but in truth I was referring to something that was really open, like RTF or even TXT) |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 18:32
Ubuntu - Kevin
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Open standards are exactly that - open to anyone. Never had a problem swapping docs between Libre and OpenOffice. Only Office, which sort of points the finger at MS. Not that they have a history of that sort of thing ;-) |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 20:38
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> Open standards are exactly that - open to anyone. >> >> Never had a problem swapping docs between Libre and OpenOffice. Err thats because its the same product with a different name. They are not open standards, they are proprietary, just have open" in the name. Last edited by: Zero on Sat 8 Mar 14 at 20:38
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 20:45
Ubuntu - No FM2R
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This might help... www.infoworld.com/d/applications/review-apache-openoffice-4-vs-libreoffice-41-224280 |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 21:42
Ubuntu - Kevin
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>Err thats because its the same product with a different name. They are not the same product. They have common portions of code but that is the beauty of open source which you don't seem to understand. I have full access to the source code for both and can add features or customise them as much as I want as long as I stay within the GPL. >They are not open standards, they are proprietary, just have open" in the name. They are standards that are freely available to anyone. No single company owns the standard and no one can come knocking on my door demanding payment because I am infringing their "Intellectual Property". What exactly, is proprietary about that? |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 22:00
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> >Err thats because its the same product with a different name. >> >> They are not the same product. They have common portions of code Of course they are the same, they are both almost entirely made up of the same code not just "common portions", what part of that do you not understand? That might change, but with this being a very recent branch the differences are miniscule. Ergo they are the same product with a different name ( but with a different direction) Its quite possible that Open office suites will fail, fall out of use, change their reliance on file standards, and you are just as far up the gum tree with future readability as you are with MS. As I said, the ONLY truly open standard is Ansi Text. Readable by everything. |
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New Sun 9 Mar 14 00:02
Ubuntu - Kevin
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>Of course they are the same, they are both almost entirely made up of the same code not just >"common portions", what part of that do you not understand? They are not the same. They are similar products based on code that is freely available and which conforms to an open standard. What part of that do you not understand? >That might change, but with this being a very recent branch the differences are miniscule. Ergo >they are the same product with a different name ( but with a different direction) Very recent? Development diverged in 2010. >Its quite possible that Open office suites will fail, fall out of use, change their reliance on >file standards, and you are just as far up the gum tree with future readability as you are with MS. Dream on. Open standards are here to stay. >As I said, the ONLY truly open standard is Ansi Text. Unicode? |
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New Sun 9 Mar 14 08:46
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> >Of course they are the same, they are both almost entirely made up of the >> same code not just >> >"common portions", what part of that do you not understand? >> >> They are not the same. They are similar products based on code that is freely >> available and which conforms to an open standard. What part of that do you not >> understand? >> >> >That might change, but with this being a very recent branch the differences are miniscule. >> Ergo >> >they are the same product with a different name ( but with a different direction) >> >> >> Very recent? Development diverged in 2010. Thats very recent in software development terms as you well know. Go practise another open language. I suggest Mandarin, you'll need it. |
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New Tue 11 Mar 14 21:45
Ubuntu - Kevin
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>Go practise another open language. I suggest Mandarin, you'll need it. I spent some time in Germany and picked up a few phrases from a Chinese colleague. The only one I can remember was pronounced phonetically as "Luk gore bee chow". At work there's been lot's of "Bye, I'm buying drinks in the pub" messages recently but I didn't get an offer. Pity really. Should know by the end of May if I need to learn more than "Six beers please". |
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New Tue 11 Mar 14 23:28
Ubuntu - rtj70
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| Best of luck Kevin. If I got redundancy option not sure if I'd really be happy and take it. I often think working in John Lewis or a car dealership might be more enjoyable. Wouldn't earn much but if I got redundancy that would counter low pay. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 21:01
Ubuntu - RichardW
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| Ignore others' prejudice, and try it for yourself... There are plenty of 'apps' for linux - even the HMRC PAYE tools has a linux version. When I installed it worked straight out of the box, video drivers OK (although nvidia is not that well supported), wireless adaptor etc. Changed the motherboard on this laptop to a slightly different one and Ubuntu just got on with it. Windoze on the other hand wouldn't load any drivers at first, VGA screen and, no net connection - had to download the drivers on Ubuntu to make it work at all; and when I changed the mobo it took about 20 minutes to get started - spent ages re-installing all the drivers. Ubuntu booted off a CD rescued my F-i-L PC when it got ukash virus - couldn't get windows to do anything. I like the way that Ubuntu will read anything - windows partitions, without any problems, whereas Windows won't look at Linux partitions, and gets upset about stuff that is on other Win installations. You've nothing to lose by installing it and giving it a try - you can always go back to Windows if it doesn't float your boat. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 21:35
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> Ignore others' prejudice, Its not prejudice, its much wider experience. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 21:34
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> I use Open Office on Win7 and I have no trouble getting it to open >> Word and Excel documents, if it can do the same on the Linux version that'll >> do for me. >> >> What are the problems with Linux then Zeddo? No Itunes, ( and don't say there are others - try setting uo a new iPhone with them!) NO good video editor. As for applications - Everyone says ah but there are Linux version, most of them are crap and poorly supported. Linux is ok if you like recompiling stuff, And don't say - ah but - you can use WINE. Performs like a dog and with problems. At the end of the day, if Linux was as good as windows, windows would be dead. I would be using it - It aint and I aint. Ok windows is heading for the crapper, but so are the home versions of Linux. |
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New Thu 6 Mar 14 22:47
Ubuntu - Focusless
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>> Is it non-geek friendly, or a troublesome pain in the butt? Office stuff and internet >> use only. You know there are at least a couple of ways of trying it for yourself - 1. Blow a 'live' Ubuntu CD and let your PC boot from it - it won't corrupt the Windows on your hard disk, although it runs slowly because everything has to load off the CD. 2. Install VMPlayer (ie. in Windows) and install/run Ubuntu in it - that's how we use Ubuntu at work (our software dev tools are Linux-based). Doesn't run as fast as it would running natively, but it's not bad. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 16:12
Ubuntu - Dulwich Estate
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* * Slight thread drift warning * * I'm content with Win7 that the computer was supplied with as it's snappier that XP - or maybe it's just less junk filled and will slow down in time. Anyway, a recent Win7 update screwed up my Windows 95 editions of Word & Excel (yes guys - 1995). The software update wanted Office 2010. So, instead I just downloaded LibreOffice for my word processing / spreadsheets. Just fine for a home user and of course - FREE. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 16:40
Ubuntu - No FM2R
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So last night I installed Mint, on a dual boot configuration. (In case you don't realise, these are all just flavours of the same OS). Its really hard work to use and I can't see any particular advantage for a normal, general purpose, home machine. I used to be an OS techie and System Manager, back in the days of ULTRIX/UNIX and VMS, so whilst I might be seriously out of date, I'm not a buffoon. I get that some tools and utilities run on Linux and don't run on something else, but as far as I can see you don't really care about performance at those times anyway so might as well boot on a CD or a USB stick if that's all you want. I can see that if one is running a dedicated server for something or other, media server perhaps, then you can use an older PC and it will perform well using such an OS. But if the goal is, as mine, a general purpose Home PC, then I'd be surprised if it worked out for you, its just too much like hard work and so many things are designed around MS these days, that the UNIX workarounds are just painful. Your mileage may differ, and if you're seriously techie or using it for a specific purpose, then your mileage will definitely differ. But if you just would like an alternative to Microsoft and want your old PC to work faster, then I wouldn't bother. FWIW. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 17:16
Ubuntu - spamcan61
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>> >> Anyway, a recent Win7 update screwed up my Windows 95 editions of Word & Excel >> (yes guys - 1995). >> >> The software update wanted Office 2010. >> >> So, instead I just downloaded LibreOffice for my word processing / spreadsheets. >> >> Just fine for a home user and of course - FREE. >> To be honest there's very few if any new features post Office 97 that I'd pay for, WYSIWYG font selection is the only one I can think of. Reckon Office 2003 to LibreOffice is an easier transition than Office 2003 to Office 2010 or later - having done the former at home and the latter at work. In terms of the eternal Windows vs. Linux then, as I always say, running Ubuntu felt like a whole new hobby rather than just an OS change. not worth the faff. Wouldn't think many domestic PC users, used to the Windows way of doing things, would be prepared to make the effort of the change. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 17:49
Ubuntu - Robin O'Reliant
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Thanks all, idea now binned as the last thing I want is a load of hassle. I'm now veering towards a Win8 laptop, the stuff available at the price I want to pay (Sub £300) have a better spec than my ageing desktop and I like the idea of less clutter and getting rid of the spaghetti dangling from the back of the desk. I had a quick look round Currys this afternoon and desktops really do seem to be on the way out, only three in stock and the shelves packed with laptops and tablets. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 18:34
Ubuntu - spamcan61
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| I don't think the Desktop PC has a market in a domestic context any more, other than gamers who are unlikely to be shopping in Currys/PC World; laptops have more than enough horsepower for most domestic use then there's tablets for web browsing and iPlayer. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 19:35
Ubuntu - Fenlander
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>>>I don't think the Desktop PC has a market in a domestic context any more Odd... we've just bought two new desktops as self, Mrs F and 17yr old daughter all prefer a desk based experience. I just hope there will be some available for the next couple of decades to see us out. Have no fear of Windows 8... we all prefer it now after just a few weeks use. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 19:39
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> >>>I don't think the Desktop PC has a market in a domestic context any more >> >> Odd... we've just bought two new desktops as self, Mrs F and 17yr old daughter >> all prefer a desk based experience. I just hope there will be some available for >> the next couple of decades to see us out. There won't be, sales of desktop machines are tanking. Even the gamers won't have the hardware to build their tweaked stuff. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 7 Mar 14 at 19:39
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 19:47
Ubuntu - No FM2R
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>>Have no fear of Windows 8... we all prefer it now after just a few weeks use. I'm not so sure. Herself has had her W8 laptop for three months or so now, perhaps longer, and I still find using it a miserable experience. I'm usually all for adopting new stuff and often upgrade earlier than is advisable, but I'm not doing well with Windows 8. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 19:59
Ubuntu - Robin O'Reliant
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I've decided to bite the bullet and get a Win 8 laptop tomorrow. Playing with one in the shop today the 15.6" screen seemed perfectly acceptable and my first job will be to download 8.1. As it's not an emergency purchase I'll have time to get used to it while I still use the desktop. My office work is only of the most basic type so as long as I can print off hard copies it'll do. I did think of getting one with Win7 installed, but then how long will MS go on supporting it? Win8 seems to be like Marmite, people either love it or hate it. Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Fri 7 Mar 14 at 19:59
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 20:01
Ubuntu - Fenlander
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>>>There won't be, sales of desktop machines are tanking Oh well laptop with extra keyboard, mouse and big monitor then... >>>I'm usually all for adopting new stuff and often upgrade earlier than is advisable, but I'm not doing well with Windows 8. It's weird... we expected problems but all clicked with it really quickly after an hour or so... and after setting it up so the desktop side looked how we wanted it for our "office" type stuff. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 20:52
Ubuntu - rtj70
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I'm with those that say Linux still isn't for the mainstream - sad but true. It's a lot easier/better than the old days. I remember installing it from the pile of floppy disk images I downloaded from the Internet and having to programme the refresh rates for my video card/monitor to get the resolution and refresh rate I wanted (had to calculate the horizontal/vertical refresh signals etc and doing it wrong could cause damage to the monitor).... but that was 1993. But apart from looking slicker and an easy install the applications just aren't there - still. That system had DOS/Windows 3.11 but also OS/2 Warp. And then triple booted to Linux. The only real alternative to Windows is Apple's Mac OS X in my opinion and that comes at a premium. But I prefer it to Windows and have had it as a main machine since 2009. Now also a laptop and a workhorse PC/Mac running it but it could be anything (use it for VMWARE Fusion).... and Windows gaming. Interesting that the touch interface for the Mac is either the trackpad (laptops) or also a trackpads for desktops or a mouse with touch features.... which works. Windows 8 got it wrong IMO. I can see the day when Microsoft have Office for more platforms as it is such a cash cow and Windows/desktops/laptops in decline. It's coming to the iPhone/iPad and Android. So why not Linux. And with gamers possibly being persuaded to Linux (SteamOS) then why not? A copy of Office is revenue if it's on any platform. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 21:10
Ubuntu - Zero
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I am ok with windows 8.1, in fact quite happy with it BUT Only after using it for an hour or so. The problem is you cant easily chop and change between 7 and 8. In an ad-hoc support role that often gets forced on me, I find it incredibly initially infuriating to support 8 because the under the bonnet stuff is not in the same place, or worse - missing. As a user tho, 8.1 as an experience is fine, as an O/S it good - fast and stable. |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 12:49
Ubuntu - rtj70
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| Worse than Windows 8 is Windows Server 2012 - in terms of user interface. How many server setups have touch enabled screens :-) I think the dual personality/desktop interface of Windows 8/2012 is a mistake. And they will eventually 'fix it' now that Balmer has gone. |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 16:04
Ubuntu - Robin O'Reliant
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Ah well, for better or for worse - www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/compaq-15-a003sa-15-6-laptop-grey-21898257-pdt.html I'll set up tomorrow and see what I think of 8.1. |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 16:24
Ubuntu - Slidingpillar
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Bet it takes a few days! Useful stuff for Luddites: www.pcworld.com/article/2055381/how-to-eradicate-metro-from-your-windows-8-1-pc.html Useful download: www.classicshell.net/ At least it's now got 8.1 preloaded, I spent a day updating 8.0 before it allowed me to update to 8.1 |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 19:30
Ubuntu - RattleandSmoke
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I still sell quite a lot of desktops there is still big demand. I a lot of my customers just want a reliable system that will last. I use Gigabyte or Asus motherboards, Western Digital Black hard drives and decent power supplies (Corsair, FSP, Coolermaster, Antec etc) and these systems should last a lot longer than a laptop. Cheap laptops are a big of a false economy if they are used as a laptop (e.g moved around a lot) as they just fall to pieces I use Open Office for my business and always had done, never had any issues. I use Windows 7 on my personal desktop and Windows 8.1 on my bench machine. Once you have learned your way round Windows 8.1 it is good, Windows 8 out of the box is pure crap though. I always tend to configure Windows 8.1 to boot straight into the desktop, my clients find it less confusing than the Metro interface. In fact with icons on the task bar or desktop they have little need to use Metro. I don't use Metro much at all on my office system. Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sat 8 Mar 14 at 19:32
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 20:19
Ubuntu - Robin O'Reliant
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I've just had a look at the instructions. WTF??? Leap Motion, Leap Motion Airspace, Charms. Charms? What the hell are Charms, let alone two fingered pinch zoom and edge swipes. This is going to be a steep learning curve when I pluck up the courage to turn the thing on. |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 20:35
Ubuntu - Zero
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>> I've just had a look at the instructions. >> >> WTF??? Leap Motion, Leap Motion Airspace, Charms. Charms? What the hell are Charms, let alone >> two fingered pinch zoom and edge swipes. You'll not be doing any two fingered pinch zoom. It does not have a touch screen. |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 20:43
Ubuntu - Robin O'Reliant
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>> >> You'll not be doing any two fingered pinch zoom. It does not have a touch >> screen. >> Thank Christ for that. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 18:34
Ubuntu - No FM2R
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I had to do some stuff on herself's laptop this afternoon. Windows 8 causes me to weep quite often. Without me really knowing how you're going to use it, I wonder if retaining your existing desktop for when you need such a thing but otherwise using a new tablet might be the way forward? No. 2 has an android tablet and I love the thing. But you need a proper desktop to do proper documents. IMHO. |
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New Fri 7 Mar 14 19:34
Ubuntu - Slidingpillar
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Windows 8 is a pile of cat sick, but with the free download and update to Windows 8.1, the turning off of screen control and the addition of Classic Shell does make for a tolerable machine. I'll still need a desktop PC though, web editing is stacks easier with a big screen. (I do a shop and the local scout group sites). But, I'm trying out a tablet in a bit. However I don't see it as a replacement for anything, it's just another tool. |
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New Sat 8 Mar 14 22:02
Ubuntu - Focusless
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>> I'll still need a desktop PC though, web editing is stacks easier with a big >> screen. Surely all you need is a laptop + monitor running in extended desktop mode? That's what I use for work - (12") laptop is good for on the train, and add a monitor at home/office. (You can get a 24" monitor for <£120 these days.) Last edited by: Focusless on Sat 8 Mar 14 at 22:02
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New Wed 12 Mar 14 21:30
Ubuntu - Roger.
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My geeky SIL has a very powerful desktop he built himself, liquid cooled! (Even his laptop has two hard drives, one is an SSD for the OS) The desktop has a triple monitor set up, which does make having multiple files open to work on simultaneously, very easy, It takes up a BIG space in their dining room though, much to my daughter's annoyance! |
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