He was a pfd And, in Rio at least, a complete non-event.
And as for the BBC's "cocking a snook at authority as he lived the high life in Brazil", then I assume that is one man at least who never went there.
He lived in a nasty flat in a nasty area; he used to go out on to Copocabana or Ipanema and sit on the beach, or in a cafe, for photographs to try to maintain this myth of glory.
Most Brazilians had no idea who he was, and the ones that did know didn't care. He had an unbelievably inflated opinion of himself despite all evidence to the contrary. He was a nasty little petty thief who got involved with some big boys and got his name in the tabloids.
He avoided extradition because of a BRasilian born child by a woman who left him and wanted nothing to do with him.
He had no source of money. The tabloids never "found" him. He would contact them and try for photos and interviews in return for money.
He used to get talking to tourists, mostly from the Cruise ships, and allow them to buy him food and drinks, or pay to got to a barbecue with him, and other such activities.
He would charge for pictures with him and would sell souvenirs of himself.
I doubt there is anybody in England that really cares, other than the tabloids who seem to get in a fizz. They were an embarrassment on the occasion they turned up in Rio to "find" Biggs or listen to some latest interview from him - autobiography, cancer, the true story, whatever else he could drag up etc. etc. barf.
And truly a "little" man who has finally stopped embarrassing the British in Brasil.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 19 May 14 at 02:23
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Some good news at last ! One of the three or four things I hoped would happen in my lifetime.
Stuck 2 fingers up as Britain for years...even on his last public appearance he was doing it. Remember Jack Mills ? I don't know if Biggs did it but there was no need to ruin a good man's life with a vicious clubbing .
Thought he was a celebrity.....he was trash !
Ted
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The British public - or large sections of it anyway - have a curious attitude to professional villains. The Kray twins, two psychopathic headcases and at least one a serial rapist and paedophile are almost beatified by some people, mostly those who never knew them and a gaggle of rather stupid people from the entertainment world. "They only hurt their own kind", is a common excuse for them as if their own kind didn't matter. And of course if you had something they wanted...
It's the same with the train robbers, a bunch of thieving parasites who contributed nothing to society throughout their lives, cost a lot of decent people small fortunes and were mostly of the type no sane person would want to live next door to. Yet they became folk heroes within a short time of their major crime, "It's only money" being the justification (Tell that to Jack Mills family, or the Post Office staff on the train who were terrorised and assaulted) often put forward by those who spend time writing to the Guardian railing about some hard working soul cleverly and legally avoiding tax.
Most strange.
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Thieves and con-artists, even some robbers when they aren't working, can have superficial charm and can be amusing. But you have to think of what they are, not what they seem to be when everyone's in a good mood.
It's a narrow, restricted, focused, predatory outlook, more like that of a cockroach or rat than a rounded human being. Big grin, red rims and signs of anxiety around the eyes... watch out.
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BBC coverage on PM last evening was geared towards the driver who was beaten up by these brave jolly rogues, barely a mention of Biggs. How it should be.
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But give the legend a few hundred years to mature and you get Dick Turpin or Robin Hood.
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>> It's the same with the train robbers, a bunch of thieving parasites who contributed nothing >> to society throughout their lives, cost a lot of decent people small fortunes and were
>> mostly of the type no sane person would want to live next door to. Yet
>> they became folk heroes within a short time of their major crime,
>> Most strange.
>>
Do you remember 'good old Moaty'?
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>>
>> Do you remember 'good old Moaty'?
>>
Yes.
Being evil is no bar to attracting your fair share of groupies.
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And who could forget Ronnie as the sixth "Sex Pistol"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1osVnYt0s
How the mighty had fallen and all for a couple of pints; not even a "good drink" in SE London parlance.
As always
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Thu 19 Dec 13 at 17:49
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That's rather a good production, seems to me. Malcolm McClaren fecit? Sex Pistols were well cheeky but had a brilliant side. Biggs was honoured to have their backing and be asked to bawl their rude lyric.
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I remember a long time ago (2007 think) going down to Brixton to see the Sex Pistols. Was not one of the best gigs I have ever been to, was just a load of old men. Was about as punk as Cliff Richard. Glad I went though.
.**********
Of course the Sex Pistols gig in Manchester in 1976 changed things for ever and without that gig I wouldn't have met half the friends I know now, even though they were born about ten years after that gig! Who knows maybe it was just a legend not not many gigs actually end up having an entire book written about it.
www.amazon.co.uk/Swear-Was-There-Changed-World/dp/0954970497
A lot of the punk bands I like actually pre date the sex pistols, but the Sex Pistols are the band that made the scene popular and got other bands like Joy Division playing.
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>> but the Sex Pistols are the band that made the scene popular and got other bands like Joy Division playing.
They were lucky to have McClaren as their Svengali. Remember their Jubilee song, 'God Save the Queen, it's a fascist regime...' Accepted with the usual protests by the establishment and given the accolade of a BBC ban... The Pistols were as fascist as the state or more so, it was their moment of glory... pure brilliance by the not-all-that-nice McClaren.
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The reason they inspired so many bands is people like the members of what would become Joy Division (who were just school mates at this point) thought they were so damn awful that they could play better. I think until this point bands were either cover bands playing in pubs or bands that made it through luck (e.g good looks).
I am not quite sure where the Clash fits into all this, as they were around at the same time as the Sex Pistols and in my opinion better. Even a band I have seen a couple of times called Cock Sparrer are quite a bit better than the Pistols. The Pistols certainly never invented punk but they took bought it a much wider audience.
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The Sex Pistols were damn awful, as you say.
In fact if the Establishment, fronted up by the BBC, hadn't fallen in love with the idea of hating how disrespectful they were and trying to ban/stop them, then they would never have got anywhere.
>> the not-all-that-nice McClaren.
And if ever an understatement were made.....
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Rattle
I actually saw the Pistols in 1976 and also followed the Clash through until about 1983 seeing them paly live some 15 times.
Whereas you are only in your 30's and by your own admission go to ahem "Punk Nights".
It was a very different world back them and I do not recall anyone saying Joy Divison were the way forward. They were an indie band who more or less vanished until some more or less utterly depressing film was made about them recently.
Indeed band like Cock Sparrer and Sham 69 have satisfactorily dissapeared into the memory hole and should not be brought back as they were so carp.
Best regards
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Thu 19 Dec 13 at 18:54
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Those bands still have a massive following though, Sham69 recently sold out the Ritz which has a capacity of a few thousand. Joy Division have always been very popular in Manchester, when I started going out in around 1999 and 2000 JD was played a lot in the alternative venues.
Cock Sparrer attract around thousands when they play at Rebellion but I admit they also attract some of the less desirables in the punk scene.
Sadly I don't go to punk nights as such as they don't really exist, but punk is played at rock and indie nights the most you can hope for is a put of Clash, The Damned and the Ramones. I am actually more into post punk and new wave though.
I do know where you're coming from though, it makes me laugh when I see kids still dancing to stuff like Blink 182 as I was a teenager when all that stuff came out yet the kids all seem to really love pop punk.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 19 Dec 13 at 19:04
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Yes AC it was produced for the film "The Great Rock and Roll Swindle" which not only summed up their career but it is also a very real reference in these X Factor days where ahem "stars" are knocked out every year.
And that was their perception of the UK music scene some 34 years ago!
Best music related doc I have seen of late was the David Bowie doc on one of the minor BBC channels. a brief clip showed a member of Sweet in full SS uniform performing a number.
Not saying it is right but al la Saville et all we would not be troubled by it today. I understand most of the TOTP tapes are no longer broadcastable due to the alleged nonce content and as mere mortals we are no allowed to see this foootage in case we all become rerrevocably depraved.
Perhaps this is why the Wombles are no longer shown especially as the Bulgarians are coming.
Best regards
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Thu 19 Dec 13 at 18:38
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>> I understand most of the TOTP tapes are no longer broadcastable due to the alleged nonce content and as mere mortals we are no allowed to see this foootage in case we all become rerrevocably depraved.
No doubt they will be shown again eventually. The BBC which imposed the horrible thuggish creepy philistine on a pathetic swindled nation in the first place, then covered up for his fumblings and continued to promote him with the help of the great and good along with virtually all the other media until just the other week it seems, now has to pretend it's shocked that he was a nonce and try to make him a non-person.
Damn this country's pathetic...
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Hi AC
It would appear North Korea has a similar method of making "undesirables" invisible.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10515306/Kim-Jong-uns-executed-uncle-airbrushed-from-North-Korean-documentary.html
As had the Soviet Union in former times.
Just as well we live in a democracy, its not that I would ever wish to see DLT on TOPT again its more about being able to do so should I errrr wish to.
Regards
Mark
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>Just as well we live in a democracy, its not that I would ever wish to see DLT on TOPT again its more about
>being able to do so should I errrr wish to.
My overriding regret of this whole sordid affair is that it's unlikely I'll ever again see re-runs of a scantily clad Cherry Gillespie.
tinyurl.com/kemnacf
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>>
>> No doubt they will be shown again eventually. The BBC which imposed the horrible thuggish creepy philistine on a pathetic swindled nation in the first place, then covered up for
>> his fumblings and continued to promote him with the help of the great and good
>> along with virtually all the other media until just the other week it seems, now
>> has to pretend it's shocked that he was a nonce and try to make him
>> a non-person.
>>
>> Damn this country's pathetic...
>>
There are sex offenders and sex offenders though. Whether you're Persona Non Grata or not depends on how hip you are perceived to be. Lightweights like Savile, DLT and Gary Glitter cannot be shown because of the public (Tabloid) outrage that would ensue, but those on the cool wall -Elvis, Michael Jackson, Bill Wyman, John Peel, Chuck Berry, Pete Townsend and many more who have dubious sexual histories if not convictions are seen as ok.
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Jerry Lee Lewis
Say no more Squire, she was only 13!
Regards
Mark
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I don't think of Savile primarily as a sex offender, disgusting though he is said to have been. I think of him as an ugly dead philistine hand placed on popular culture deliberately by BBC and other suits, and tamely slobbered over for half a century by the pathetic swindled millions of my compatriots. That's who he really was.
There were a lot of teenage girls running wild in the sixties, and people in the music business ready to succumb to temptation, or anyway poontang on a plate... some of the names you mention were in that category, not nonces as such.
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Disgusting as he may have been. he was certainly feted by the BBC, who else whould have let a suspected nonce host a TV show in which "kids dreams could come true"?
As Frankie Boyle has said, you can just imagine the dicussion at the nonces club, where Jimmy tells the others he now has a TV show where "kids dreams can come true" and then asks the others how this compares to a Transit Van and a bag of Revells?
But as you say we are viewing a 30/40 year old past with todays glasses and trying to match the two up. The world is a very different place today.
Best regards
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Thu 19 Dec 13 at 20:01
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Train Robber Biggs dies aged 84 - Focusless
