Eight years ago I got my first car with power steering. It felt a bit vague compared to the un-powered Pug it replaced but the ease of manoeuvring was welcome. I soon got used to it and didn't give it much thought again until yesterday.
I'm a bit of a hoarder, and the old Pug was put in a lock-up garage where it stayed un-loved and un-used.
Yesterday I had to drive it out of the garage and manoeuvre it onto a transporter. I couldn't believe how much effort was involved. I'm not sure I could go back to a car like it now.
So could you live without power steering?
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Now this is unreal...! I borrowed a colleague's N plated Corsa to pop to the shops the other day in work. It had a large wheel and was certainly unassisted - it was horrendous to manoeuvre in a tight spot...shockingly heavy. I meant to post this.
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On a FWD probably not, on a RWD probably. I remember going from a Cortina to a FWD Cavalier. It was much heavier to steer.
Edit - One of the nicest cars to drive I've ever had was a 1988/89 BMW 3 series 2.0 petrol with no PS
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 2 Nov 13 at 11:25
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Power steering is something you don't need till you've used it. Like black & white TV, it was great when that was all there was but you'd never go back.
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I think you're not quite right there Robin, wheels now are much wider than in powerless days, you now have to overcome a load of friction/inertia just to shift the damned things.
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>> I think you're not quite right there Robin, wheels now are much wider than in powerless days,
>> you now have to overcome a load of friction/inertia just to shift the damned things.
>>
Not a new problem.
My Cortina 1600E can with the standard steering box but had those famous Rostyle wider wheels.
A real pain to park especially as tread on the tyres got used up.
I had what was described as normal failures
Needed a new steering box AND the box pulled its fixing bolts out of the frame which then needed strengthening plates added.
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Mrs CS was struggling a little with our last (medium sized) motor, because it didn't have power steering; so I don't think she'd get along very well with our current barge, or any other car for that matter, without power steering.
Wouldn't bother me much, though.
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Two cars that cried out for power steering were an old Volvo 360 and Maestro diesel, although the Maestro only ever needed it at anything below a walking pace.
My old Kia Pride never had it and didn't need it (I may have been able to spin the wheel a little quicker in competition if it had) despite what other people said who drove it. I guess they'd never experienced anything without it.
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My old GMC has "mandraulic" steering; it's not so much essential as a different technique.
I started my lorry driving days on MK Bedfords in the Army which were similarly bereft of assistance. You soon learned the art of clutch control, as the effort needed to turn the wheel virtually disappears as soon as the vehicle moves.
As Robin says it's effectively progress. Like double de-clutching and manual advance/retards, no longer necessary but nice to know you can cope with it should the necessity arise.
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I once drove a Discovery, with broken power steering, after checking with the dealer it was safe to move and would not seize up on me. It was a little bit heavy, but not imanageable to get out of my drive, but a rally car I've driven was just heavy at low speed, but as soon as it was moving, fine. And when I got it on the motorway, actually better.
The vintage car is 270 degrees lock to lock, and while near stationary, yes it's heavy, but as soon as it's moving fine, as the tyres are only 4" wide.
The current fad for ridiculously wide tyres, the expectation the steering wheel will turn easily from lock to lock, while stationary and the manufacturing of cars for insensitive wimps result in power steering now being the norm. My father, ever the optimist (!) regarded it as something else to go wrong!
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Almost drove into a wall recently-getting into a non-ps vehicle.It needed a right angle turn to get out of a building-I expected it to have power steering and not only was it heavy but having a lower geared rack,it needed more movement of the wheel.My new car has electrlc PS which I find excellent.Plenty of assistance at low speed-negligible at speed.
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When working on things in the garage I often push the Jazz out rather than start it - saving petrol and FUMES.
Trying to turn the steering wheel is like doing 40 pressups in the morning - which I have already done once.
So no thanks
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There is a marked difference though in a car with power steering which is not operating and the same car which is geared to run without it.
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It is a case of what you are used to driving. In the 70s I spent six weeks working in the USA and had a hired V8 Oldsmobile Sedan with over powered everything. On my return to the UK I was convinced the brakes had failed and the steering seized on the first car I used.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 2 Nov 13 at 13:54
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Yes, very easily. I regularly drive a Volvo with power steering, and a Triumph and a Landrover without. Yes, powersteering is easy to turn at low speeds, but it is really just an excuse for turning the wheels while stationary, while in a manual car you have to think more carefully about not scrubbing the tyres.
A well-balanced set up in good condition should be finger-light at any sort of speed, whether manual or assisted.
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I've noticed a startling difference in the feel and accuracy between electric and hydraulic power steering systems. Electric systems seem much more vague somehow. To me anyway.
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>> I've noticed a startling difference in the feel and accuracy between electric and hydraulic power
>> steering systems. Electric systems seem much more vague somehow. To me anyway.
>>
I agree, I have never driven a car fitted with an electric set up that has had any real "feel". Unfortunately though its something that is becoming more and more common like poxy automated manual gearboxes in place of proper TC auto due to the current obsession with emissions and VED !
Last edited by: Skip on Sat 2 Nov 13 at 14:53
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I owned two Fiestas without PAS, it certainly took a bit of getting used to but I can live without PAS but I would certainly miss it.
My Corsa was my first car with electric power steering, that felt very vague, the Panda does have a bit of feel to it, but my dads i10 is also lifeless.
In fact the i10 doesn't have any feel to anything it is like a shopping trolley with air conditioning! It is however a great piece of transport, it is just not a car to get excited about.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sat 2 Nov 13 at 15:14
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Yes. But I would have to get used to it again. A bit of weight training perhaps.
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>> On my return to the UK I was convinced the brakes had failed and the steering seized on the first car I used
I shifted a 1965 Thunderbird last week. I'd never driven a Yank tank before but it was everything I expected it to be - woofly, barge-like and fingertip-light. I loved it.
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Happy Birthday, Dave.
I've been brought up on non-power cars. We had a BX 1600 without and changed to a Datsun Prairie Mk1 with. The difference was fantastic. SWM had occasion to use the BX a few months later and could hardly move it, although she drove it regularly when we owned it.
The Jowett drives like it had power...big steering wheel and 500/525 crossplies. It also has a steering rack...but not as we know it.
Ted
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Power steering would have been optional at that time I think... did your Tbird have power Dave? My 1964 Plymouth didn't have it, but of course it had very low-geared steering to compensate. Before I got it, drove a hired Dodge Dart from the early 70s that did have power steering, the first car I drove so equipped. It was quite unspeakable: just as low-geared as a car without it but very vague, needing constant correction on all roads. Ghastly. My Plymouth was a classy handler by comparison.
Of course all US cars had power brakes, embarrassingly powerful if you were clumsy, highly effective, but liable to fade drastically if used repeatedly in press-on mode. The US style was powerful, quiet and not suitable for high speeds except on dead straight highways.
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A few years ago my mate towed me home in my Golf. Engine not working and using a tow rope.
Fortunately it was only a couple of miles but wihout PAS or power assisted brakes !
The thought of it still brings me out in a cold sweat.
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As I recall a PAS car with its PAS not working is quite a different [more difficult] proposition to a car with unassisted steering.
PAS is one of those conveniences that I cannot imagine why I would wish to live without.
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It depends on the type of driving you do, for city use then PAS is really essential but if you're doing lots of motorway work it is not so. My dads Fiesta MK4 had PAS but it was still heavy but the tyres were very wide god knows what it would have been like without!
My car has the FIAT city mode too which makes it even lighter, it is great when doing reverse parking etc.
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the tyres were very wide god knows what it would have been like without!
Probably very noisy with very little grip on the road !....:-)
Ted
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>> A few years ago my mate towed me home in my Golf. Engine not working
>> and using a tow rope.
>> Fortunately it was only a couple of miles but wihout PAS or power assisted
>> brakes !
I've been towed twice.
First was our diesel BX that expired half a mile from home (air leak into fuel supply). Rope tow from a neighbour's Landcruiser. Steering v. heavy but lack of hydraulic pressure meant brake pedal was useless - controlled with handbrake.
Second was a pole tow in the 'lingo (wiring break - no electrics). Brakes less of a problem but steering nigh on impossible at low speeds.
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My Bentley didn't have power steering, although the contemporary and identically-bodied RR Silver Dawn, sold in the US, was so equipped. The Bentley needed a bit of muscle at parking speeds but when rolling had what are called 'good road manners', not bad at all.
I bet the chauffeurs of George VI's preferred Daimler straight-eights needed good upper body strength. They were absolutely huge.
Lada 1200 had tractor-like, heavy steering. Peugeot 205 had steering that was both low-geared and heavy. Really needed power, but didn't get it until the GTI.
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Having no power steering sharpens up your manoeuvering, you wouldn't expect the typical modern softy driver to manage.
Twas in your interest to maintain your cars better though, keep the front joints greased and the tyres well pressured.
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>> Peugeot 205 had steering that was both low-geared and
>> heavy. Really needed power, but didn't get it until the GTI.
>>
The last car I had without power steering was a 205 diesel, bought new in 1993. And the first one I owned with power steering was it's replacement, another 205 diesel bought a couple of years later when they were phasing them out and loading them with extras to get rid. That was also the first time I ever had a car with electric windows.
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>> The last car I had without power steering was a 205 diesel, bought new in 1993.
Likewise, but mine was inherited, bought new in 1985 or thereabouts by my father. It was a great car, fast, comfortable and frugal, ruined by the steering (and in that particular case by a brake fault, bad assembly I think). Was yours perhaps a turbodiesel R O'R? Mine wasn't.
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Mine wasn't either.
I never test drove new cars before I bought, being an ADI at the time I was of the opinion one little hatch was pretty much like another and if other instructors found the car ok (and there were loads in use) I wouldn't have a problem either. As I drove it off the forecourt I thought, "What the F have I gone and done here?". It felt awful being my first ever diesel. By the time I'd got all of the three miles home I'd actually got to like it and quickly became a diesel convert (Though my last two car have been petrol). Diesels are like Marmite or Guinness, you either like love or loathe them.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sat 2 Nov 13 at 20:17
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of course you could live without power steering, and many of us did, with no problems in cars that were designed not to have any
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Only a few months ago I was considering buying my neighbours H reg Eunos. It really does look nice in a dark metallic grey, matching hardtop & alloys. SS exhaust, wide tyres, lowered suspension, modified engine..but, with no PAS and a tiny steering wheel it was awful to manoeuvre at low speed. Doubtless you would get used to reverse parallel parking, but that was the primary reason for putting me off purchasing it as a toy.
The owner (a friend) has now completely lost interest in it and would probably sell it for £500. During my third MLC I ordered an Elise (the first ex took half the house, business & pension) so with what remained I blew it all on R575 GYG. I'm pretty sure it had no PAS and was a complete hoot to drive as my daily wheels for 3 years.
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My dad had a string of Lada 1200a before buying a nearly new Punto SX, which had central locking, electric windows etc but no PAS. My dad found the steering so light and loved the car. Now he would probably find it heavy. It just depends what you're used to. That said I learnt to drive initially in that Punto and I didn't find the lack of PAS an issue.
The Ladas in my parents eyes were great, they could buy a three old car for the price of a ten year old Escort, but they failed to release the Escort was still a better car in every way, although in terms of longevity the Lada was a winner. My parents could buy a £700 Lada, keep it for 6 years without servicing other than MOTs and scrap it around 60k once the engine blew up due to a lack of oil changes.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sun 3 Nov 13 at 04:14
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>> The Ladas in my parents eyes were great, they could buy a three old car
>> for the price of a ten year old Escort, but they failed to release the
>> Escort was still a better car in every way, although in terms of longevity the
>> Lada was a winner.
A Lada was probably the only car that you could say was worse than the 1980- Escorts !
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What I want to know is why is was going onto a transporter - hopefully off to a new life, not to a scrappy?
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The Lada Riva's engine with the chain driven cam was nearly unbreakable.
The large size of the engine vis-a-vis its capacity always astonished people!
The steering was heavy, but worst of all was the awful position of the accelerator pedal.
"Lada ankle" was a REAL complaint!
I had a Riva 1600, (a demonstrator according to our books; well it did have magnetic advertising panels on the doors) repainted in red/white: modified with two Weber 45 carbs, a gas flowed head, a high lift cam, a free-flow exhaust manifold and silencer, plus lowered and stiffened suspension!
It surprised a few other motorists, I can tell you.
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A taxi company where I used to live ran a fleet of Lada Rivas in the 80's. The first thing they used to do when they bought them was to swap the carb for a Weber and replace the brake pads and shoes with Ferodo or Mintex as they reckoned that the OE ones were made from old Russian army blankets !
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Could you live without power steering? - R.P.
