When the UK radio service switches to DAB and the analogue signal is switched off, presumably our existing car radios will be useless?
Why are so few new cars being fitted with DAB radios?
When is the switch likely to happen? I have seen 2015 mentioned, which is only five years away.
Why is no one jumping up and down about this?
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Ford offered them but the take-up was so low they stopped.As said somewhere yesterday they don't have RDS's ability to pick up the same station all round the country by seamlessly switching transmitters;on DAB you would need to do it manually.
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I doubt it will happen unless enough DAB units are sold before, can't have the proletariat unable to hear the state broadcaster, you never know where they might get an alternative version of events.
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The 2015 target was mentioned in the Carter report.
He proposed a two-year countdown, which itself could only start when:
* 50 per cent of listening is digital.
* DAB is comparable to FM coverage, and local DAB reaches 90 per cent of all population, and all major roads.
Neither of these criteria have the remotest chance of being met anytime soon.
More here: www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/19/carter_radio_dumb_media/
And we kicked this around earlier this year:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=239&v=f
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>>>> He proposed a two-year countdown, which itself could only start when:
>>
>> * 50 per cent of listening is digital.
>> * DAB is comparable to FM coverage, and local DAB reaches 90 per cent
>> of all population, and all major roads.
>>
>>
The main point surely, is that we can't simply throw our old car radios away and fit a new DAB version - not at enything like a sensible cost.
Most car owners keep a car for 2 or 3 years? The people buying second hand cars 3 to 5 years old aren't going to be happy not having a radio. Or alternatively having some lash-up of an adaptor gaffer taped onto the windscreen!
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They say that younger people don't listen to broadcast radio, neither do I.
I think it is a dying concept. I would never buy a DAB and don't own an FM radio in the house. The one in the car is never used wither.
I see the future as being music uploaded/synched to the car stereo when it is at home, and information such as weather, news and traffic coming via the mobile network to the car and displayed or played through an info. system, or just the drivers' smartphone on more basic cars.
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>> They say that younger people don't listen to broadcast radio, neither do I.
>> I think it is a dying concept. I would never buy a DAB and don't
>> own an FM radio in the house. The one in the car is never used
>> wither.
>>
>> I see the future as being music uploaded/synched to the car stereo when it is
>> at home, and information such as weather, news and traffic coming via the mobile network
>> to the car and displayed or played through an info. system, or just the drivers'
>> smartphone on more basic cars.
>>
I sincerely hope not. Mobile phones provide enough distraction in the cab as it is.
I have a nasty feeling that if the British people as a whole, not just motorists, don't get off their backsides and protest very loudly about the threat of losing analogue radio, we will find ourselves with a far bigger hole in our daily lives than that created by the loss of analogue television. The simple reason is that TV demands that you sit still and watch it; radio doesn't, but if the digital switchover happens, that's what we'll have to do because the technology for mobile reception is totally inadequate.
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If dab radio is as bad as freeview boxes for synchronizing to the output station then you can stick it for me sunny boy
we have a digi upstairs and one downstairs and their output can be 5 seconds different
how can we synch our watches before we go over the top if we ever need to
waste of time and my money
analogue works fine
its really depressing these days going on a long dx on short wave or even medium wave and theres hardly anything there now apart from interference
Last edited by: Bellboy on Sun 6 Jun 10 at 11:50
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>> analogue works fine
Not here it doesn't. I tried to take advantage of the old simulcast thingy for last year's Last Night of the Proms - where the concert is broadcast live on BBC Radio 3 FM in time with the analogue transmission on BBC1 TV.
The radio and TV were about 1 second apart, which ruined the effect. I take it everything is filmed and recorded digitally these days, then converted to analogue for transmission, with all the inherent delays in processing?
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>>
>> The main point surely, is that we can't simply throw our old car radios away
>> and fit a new DAB version - not at anything like a sensible cost.
Can't we? The cheapest aftermarket stereo in Halfords at the mo is £40. While the cheapest DAB is a fair bit more, that's because it's an extra at the mo. When it has to be on every set, it'll soon drop in price.
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On the vast majority of cars these days the radio is part of the dashboard or at least is a dedicated unit for the particular make/model it is fitted to, so just going to Halfords or similar for a DAB replacement is not going to be an option.
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Halfords 'fascia adaptor' section, which holds trim to adapt the standard radio fitment to a normal single DIN fitting, has 159 different items in it. That's quite a lot of different car models which can simply be sorted with a tenners worth of plastic.
Unless you're driving something with massively low production numbers, it'll be easy as anything. Actually much easier on modern cars than old one, because the wiring is standard - they're basically plug and play.
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I should imagine there would be an increase in commercial pirate radio, so it might actually improve the choice and become less PC.
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it'll be easy as anything. Actually much easier on modern cars than old one, because the wiring is standard - they're basically plug and play.
>
>>>>>>>> Not true im afraid
many modern cars are can bus you cant fit another radio simply by connecting to iso plugs
in fact there is a specific warning for vw group cars as if you do put an aftermarket radio in it changes one of the pins to live and blows the garage scanner up when its plugged into the eobd socket
that will be €4000 please at a main agent
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I have/have had 3 portable DAB sets, none of which would hold its push-button setings if moved from its place, even within the same room. I can't imgine how they would work in a constantly-shifting car.
However, I am more worried about my pricey hi-fi, which is used a lot on FM. Will there be set-top boxes to convert these to digital without scrapping the tuners and amplifiers?
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The difference between analogue and digital is this; with analogue you usually get some sort of signal, albeit a weak one in remote areas. With digital, it's all or nothing. You also get that annoying "drowning" sound when it goes off station, which down here in Wales, in the first area to go on digital telly, is still too damn frequent.
We have a satellite dish because a freeview telly ariel simply doesn't work round here. This is fine for when I'm at home, but no damn good in the car or lorry.
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..., I am more worried about my pricey hi-fi, which is used a lot on FM. Will there be set-top boxes to convert these to digital without scrapping the tuners and amplifiers?...
draiber,
The only sensible way will be to buy a DAB tuner, which can be played through the rest of your hi-fi in the same way as your FM tuner or a CD deck.
A roof aerial will almost certainly cure your reception problems, given that you are getting a signal indoors, albeit a poor one.
So far, so good, but now we come to the hi-fi part.
Except we don't because DAB is not hi-fi.
You mention you have a 'pricey hi-fi', which indicates to me a person who enjoys quality sound.
DAB is better than medium wave, but falls someway short of a decent FM set-up.
Some DAB stations broadcast at a higher bitrate than others, but none in my experience reach the clarity of FM.
Progress. eh?
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And there's no point in trying to get Radio2 between Carmarthen and Pembroke Dock either :)
Pat
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>> And there's no point in trying to get Radio2 between Carmarthen and Pembroke Dock either
>> :)
You can for most of the way, but the bit between St Clears and Tenby is a bit hit and miss; mind you it's a bad bit of road and a wise man turns his radio off to help concentration on that stretch!
I'd highly recommend Radio Pembrokeshire in that area Pat (102.5 FM) not nearly as annoying as most local commercial stations.
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Thanks HM, I'll try it next time.
I concentrate better to background music than listening to the agonising sound of an auto box, trying to deal with those short sharp hills on that stretch!
There's always the rather large Birds of Prey to look for as well off to the left on the way down!
Pat
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>> The difference between analogue and digital is this; with analogue you usually get some sort
>> of signal, albeit a weak one in remote areas. With digital, it's all or nothing.
>> You also get that annoying "drowning" sound when it goes off station, which down here
>> in Wales, in the first area to go on digital telly, is still too damn
>> frequent.
I've had a Pure Highway in the car for 6 months or so and can say that the digital signal is more robust then the analogue one. A good example is the main car park in Basingstoke town centre. As I decend to the lower levels I can get no AM or FM signal at all, however DAB is still viable even in the deepest level.
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Another vote for DAB reception at the caravan in leafy North Yorkshire.
FM is variable, and 5Live on medium wave is almost non-existent during the darker nights.
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>> Another vote for DAB reception at the caravan in leafy North Yorkshire.
>>
>> FM is variable, and 5Live on medium wave is almost non-existent during the darker nights.
>>
>>
>>
Exactly the point I was making earlier. DAB is all very well when you're stationary, but not on the move. Any MW and LW signal seems to deteriorate after dark, remember 208? ;-)
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>> it'll be easy as anything. Actually much easier on modern cars than old one,
>> because the wiring is standard - they're basically plug and play.
>> >
>> >>>>>>>> Not true im afraid
>> many modern cars are can bus you cant fit another radio simply by connecting to
>> iso plugs
I see you are right, but again never underestimate the technical wizardry of the ICE brigade.
CANBUS - ISO adapters exist for all popular models where they're needed. I see they're definitely available for new VW models too (although given your warning, I'd want to do a decent amount of research before fitting one).
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I often go through the Hatfield tunnel on the A1 in various cars.
Why does digital radio still work in there, when FM doesn't?
I understand a 'loop' can be fitted in the tunnel roof to repeat signals, which explains why radio signals can still be picked up in more recent tunnels.
I've also noticed sat-nav continues through tunnels. How does that work?
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>> I've also noticed sat-nav continues through tunnels. How does that work?
they average your speed preceeding your entry into the tunnel, and estimate your progress through it. (which works fine as long as you dont stop, if you do you see your sat nav location proceed out of the tunnel)
Unless of course you have a properly fitted OEM sat nav, which uses the speedo pulses.
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Thanks for that. Ain't technology wonderful?
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>> >> as long as you dont stop, if you do you see>> your sat nav location proceed out of the tunnel)
>>
>>
What happens when your satnav location proceeds out of the tunnel and finds you aren't there? Does it turn round, go back inside and look for you?
Well - I just thought I would ask!
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Radios are becomming ever-more integrated into dash-board design - I certainly wouldn't be happy to have mine sullied by a nasty black plastic DIN-type adapter to accommodate a DAB radio.
I can't see commercial broadcasters being happy to lose the FM signal and with it millions of listeners, can you? Won't go down well with their advertisers, will it?
They will be the most vocal lobbyists, and will probably ensure that Dab is assigned to the scrap-heap it deserves.
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I feel like I'm an aftermarket ICE lobbyist here! After fitting a whole 1 aftermarket unit ever. It's hardly something I feel strongly about, but people seem to keep coming up with reasons why it's a completely unfeasible solution without actually looking into it.
You don't get a 'nasty black plastic adaptor'. You get one which matches the material and colour of your current dashboard. At least, I did.
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>> They will be the most vocal lobbyists, and will probably ensure that Dab is assigned
>> to the scrap-heap it deserves.
Maybe for cars/hifi, but in our bedrooms/kitchen the DAB units are big improvements over the FM ones they replaced. Can't the consumer have both?
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A problem with the after market DAB units is that they tend to have a seperate DAB box and aerial, which is something else to locate/install.
Plus some of these aerials are plain ugly. Until car manufacturers start building DAB into their cars I can't see it taking off anytime soon
I'm OK though - radio in this country is a waste of time for anyone who listens to hard/rock or metal so I'm sticking to my pile of mp3 CDs!
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Never had a problem with my factory fitted DAB in the Vectra
The only time it goes off, is if I venture into the North Yorkshire Dales but then I can just flick over to FM if needed
But I’ve had DAB all the way to Edinburgh Via A66 and M6, and all the way down to Devon (M5 Past Bristol) both times never cut out or anything - Don’t know if it makes a difference but this was BBC Radio 2 - I have Radio 4 on mostly and it seems fine wherever I go.
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>> I'm OK though - radio in this country is a waste of time for anyone
>> who listens to hard/rock or metal so I'm sticking to my pile of mp3 CDs!
>>
You're missing the point there that DAB actually provides many stations which are not available on FM, and some specialise in particular genres of music such as rock and metal.
I couldn't give a tuppeny tuppence which technology delivers the noise to my car, I just want to be able to listen to 6 Music, Planet Rock and BBC 7 in it, and BBC 5 Live in the evening when AM reception goes up the pictures. I can't get any of them on FM. Nor will I ever be able to, I imagine. So I've got a Pure Highway thingy. I'll get a DAB headunit when they're cheap enough, or when I next buy a new car and can specify such a thing.
If the stations I wanted were on FM, then obviously I woudn't bother.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 7 Jun 10 at 14:08
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>> Radios are becomming ever-more integrated into dash-board design - I certainly wouldn't be happy to
>> have mine sullied by a nasty black plastic DIN-type adapter to accommodate a DAB radio.
>>
It's worse than that, in some cars the stereo is the primary means to control some in-car functions.
In my car, the stereo allows access to the system menu and alternates the display between climate/trip/stereo. Lose the standard stereo and you lose basic functions like turning the air-con on and off!
This isn't strictly a DAB problem, the manufacturers should be thinking ahead and making components modular so they can be upgraded - i.e. a stereo receiver unit that slots under the dash and could be swapped to DAB later on.
The manufacturers would make money from the upgrades, so where's the problem?
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Car Radios Switch To DAB? - jc2
