| Motoring Discussion > Car dealers | Buying / Selling |
| Thread Author: Skip | Replies: 40 |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 12:55
Car dealers - Skip
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| I want to change my 2 year old 207 for a Astra sized car, primarily as I need more boot space. A few months ago I had ordered a new Hyundai i30, then a couple of days later was told that I was at risk of redundancy & fortunately was able to bail out of the deal. Anyway job is now safe (for now anyway) so am back on the hunt for a new car. I was thinking about going for a pre reg this time with delivery miles only on it this time to try & avoid some of the worst of the depreciation and also go for something unpopular to help nail a good deal. After some research I have decided on a Peugeot 308 - the model that is just been replaced, as run out models are fully loaded and usually most problems have been ironed out. The first one I went look at was at a Peugeot dealer in Surrey, described on their web site as new pre reg with 15 miles out on the clock. That turned out to be one of their hire/courtesy cars & had covered 3500 miles & could no way be described "as new out of the box" which is what they had told me on the phone ! Yesterday I went to look at another at a Pug dealer in Kent again described "as new", registered on 31st of August, & had covered 5 miles. Before I got out of my car I noticed the front bumper had a scrape on the os corner, then on closer inspection the drivers door had a chip on the edge where it had been opened onto a wall and the top of the sill in the door opening had 5 or 6 long scratches down to the metal. When I pointed them out to the salesman instead of him saying that if I bought it he would have it sent to the body shop to be sorted, he just agreed that they were there and that it was not what you would expect on a 6 week old car !!!! What disappointed me most though was that the car was filthy outside and the inside was covered in dust, and where it had been parked by trees with the tailgate open there were leaves and other tree debris inside. This is at at a main dealer who are owned by Peugeot & with who I had made an appointment to view it 48 hours in advance. Why had they not taken it to their on site valeting bay to be cleaned up, do these people actually want to sell cars ? Oh & it also was also lacking climate control & parking sensor which the ad claimed it had. Sorry to go on, but surely buying a new car be an enjoyable experience, or is it just me who finds it a frustrating battle ! |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 13:48
Car dealers - R.P.
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| What about an Astra..? Usually loads of pre-reg ones about ! |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 13:52
Car dealers - Runfer D'Hills
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| A pal has a sort of special edition Astra van for work ( he's got an X3 for family duties ). Can't remember what it's called but the word "sport" appears somewhere in its description. Alloy wheels and a tuned diesel, sports seats etc. Goes like the clappers he says. Looks kinda cool too in a way. Black. |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 15:18
Car dealers - mikeyb
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Matches my general recent experience of dealerships. I keep looking on autotrader for Mrs B's new motor, but putting off going to look because I cant be bothered with the BS Had planned to part with the Sharan before the MOT, but as its due early November decided to put it in anyway to give me more time to look and hopefully add a it of value to it. Passed again with no issues Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Dec 13 at 01:17
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 15:47
Car dealers - Skip
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| What amazed me was the salesmans total lack of interest in a sale. They had another 308 on the forecourt which had the features missing from the one I went to see and from a quick walk around it had no visible paint defects. It was about £1500 more as it had the more powerful engine, but I would have been interested in it. However as he couldn't be bothered to even mention it I wasn't going to give him the sale. I presume he thought that I wasn't a serious prospect, but believe me I was ! |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 17:00
Car dealers - Robin O'Reliant
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About twenty years ago when Mrs RR and myself were driving instructors I walked into a well known Ford dealer in Dagenham and told the only salesman on duty I was interested in two new Fiestas. Barely looking up from his paper he pointed to a table and told me there were some brochures I could look at. That cost them eight new cars over the next decade plus regular servicing for high mileage use, a nearby Peugeot dealer getting the business instead. |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 18:50
Car dealers - Old Navy
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| Selling cars is obviously far too easy with too much commission for the sales staff, (I deliberately did not call them salesmen / women). |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 19:04
Car dealers - sooty123
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>> Selling cars is obviously far too easy with too much commission for the sales staff, >> (I deliberately did not call them salesmen / women). >> This cropped up quite a bit on the salesmans thread on PH (before it was hidden) answer was many had been brought in from other sales industries that weren't so 'public facing'. Quite often it was seen as hard work if someone came in with too much knowledge, far easier to wait for the 'is this for sale please?' type of customer. Although in fairness it's full of time wasters, test drives experts, those obsessed with their p/x and ask for it at least once a month and general oddballs etc. |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 19:33
Car dealers - Runfer D'Hills
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I'm pretty sure that if I'd decided to buy a particular make or model of car, I'd not go and buy a different make or model which wasn't my first choice because I didn't like the salesperson. I might instead find somewhere else to buy the car of my choice if I decided to be really upset about it but that's about the size of how much I'd be swayed. Just goes to prove though that a bad salesperson can fail to sell some people what they do want while a good one can sometimes sell people what they didn't think they wanted. It is a tough game to play though, what some would regard as helpful advice and guidance others would see as "pushy", and some customers want to feel superior to the salesperson and prefer a grovelling subservient approach while others just want to be led by someone they might regard as having the appropriate specialist knowledge to guide them. Some don't want to be approached or spoken to while others feel ignored if not instantly greeted. The skill lies in assessing the nature or intentions of the potential customer and tailoring one's conduct to suit them. It's like being an actor, you have to be who the customer wants you to be and be convincing in the role. Generally the best customer / salesperson exchanges take place when both parties are relaxed, not acting and being themselves but serious in their respective intents. The best end result is usually then achieved when both parties are genuinely happy with the deal. I've never sold cars for a living but it must at some levels be a little bit tough. You'll no doubt get the know-it-all customer ( most of us on here I guess ) who has already decided what car/spec/trim they want, has researched what might be a reasonable cost to change and can't easily be sold much else, the complete day dreamer who has no real intention of buying anything but is just killing time while his wife is in the hairdressers, the company car user-chooser who won't ever be buying a car from you but wants a test drive anyway and of course the genuine browser who if handled with care and the right attention to suit his/her personality finds themselves mildly surprised but hopefully also secretly quite pleased to be signing a deal for a new car a little while after wandering into the showroom without really meaning to buy that day. I get really cross with bad salespeople though, selling is actually pretty easy once you have the hang of it, you just have to learn how to read people and stroke whatever element of their personality it is which unlocks them. You just have to fit with their ideals of what they want you to be. I've trained countless sales staff in my life and the one thing I ask them to do is to practice pretending to "like" strangers. The Tom Cruise grin while holding eye contact for just half a second too long is a very reliable a killer stroke. You don't have to say anything at all, they're yours ! People buy from people they like and being liked or at least believing you are liked by someone makes you like them ( like it or not ! ) So, next time you go to buy something and the salesperson is friendly, affable, helpful and seems like a really nice guy... Maybe I trained him ! ;-) |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 23:00
Car dealers - Bill Payer
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>> I've never sold cars for a living but it must at some levels be a >> little bit tough. >> In a franchised dealer environment it's a pretty crappy job. Lots of pressure to sell finance, GAP etc, long hours, including weekends, and it's by no means well paid. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 14:33
Car dealers - mikeyb
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>> >> I've never sold cars for a living but it must at some levels be >> a >> >> little bit tough. >> >> >> >> In a franchised dealer environment it's a pretty crappy job. Lots of pressure to sell >> finance, GAP etc, long hours, including weekends, and it's by no means well paid. >> Friend was telling me how on his last purchase the sales guy was pleading poverty. Said the hours were so long he may as well work for minimum wage and would be no worse off. I guess he was on a low basic + commission = no sales, little pay |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 14:59
Car dealers - -
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>> Friend was telling me how on his last purchase the sales guy was pleading poverty. Welcome to the real world, where swanning about in a suit doing nothing but chops for a 7 hour day only gets you thet basic, well unless you opt for a quango or the civil service. Has to work the extra hours eh, coo weekends too...best Windsor Davies now...oh dear how sad never mind. :-)) |
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New Sat 19 Oct 13 19:25
Car dealers - ....
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They should be more honest like this guy: enid.craigslist.org/cto/4119280944.html%3C/div%3E |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 13:58
Car dealers - No FM2R
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| I like the ad, but he is just doing what a good salesman should always do; working out the likely customer, targeting them and making them feel good about themselves and the product. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 16:38
Car dealers - Runfer D'Hills
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>> working out the likely customer, targeting them and making them feel good about themselves and the product. Yup, on the money Mark. Good bit of spin from the seller there. I actually half wanted his shonky old Jeep for a while by the end of reading that. In fact I've just caught myself looking at old LR Defender ads again. I really must stop that, it's like an itch. Not like I've not had one before and I certainly don't need a black hardtop with wide wheels... ;-) |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 14:24
Car dealers - Zero
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Write back to him and say "hey dude, only gay guys advertise on craigslist" "You're acting like a steer, but you are queer" Let us know how that goes. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 15:01
Car dealers - Roger.
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>> Write back to him and say "hey dude, only gay guys advertise on craigslist" "You're >> acting like a steer, but you are queer" >> Only steers & queers come from Oklahoma, as Drill Sgt Foley, USMC, said (paraphrased) in "An Officer & a Gentleman". |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 09:24
Car dealers - PeteW
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Why not take a look at the Citroen C4 - bigger boot than the 308 and subjectively a nicer car overall, just badly ignored by the majority of the public when looking at astra/focus size cars. Bare in mind if you look at pre-reg cars there is effectively no margin in them and little incentive for the sales staff to push hard to sell them. Most are bought by 'cash only' customers since if you are needing finance a new version will usually work out cheaper due to lower/zero interest rates.Pre-regs generally fall under used car finance offers instead. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 13:53
Car dealers - Skip
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| Well the deed is done. Have bought a 2 month old 308 Active 115 with 5 miles on the clock. Built in sat nav and all the toys and much to my surprise a full size alloy in the boot ! Hopefully it will improve on the 38mpg I currently get and the VED is £20 per year as opposed to the £175 i currently pay (though this is insignificant in the overall costs of running a car). Got the price down from £13,999 to £12,879 with a tank of diesel and a set of mats thrown in with £5600 for my 2 1/2 year old 207 Sport Auto. He said that they are swamped with used cars and have been told to clear stock even at if it is at a loss as they have more cars in the compound they can't fit on the forecourt. It drove very well, firm ride, but not harsh and it certainly pulled well up through the gears and was very quiet at motorway speeds. I know that a 308 is now dated & unfashionable but then so am I so hopefully we will get on fine ! Sales guy was exactly as I like them to be, friendly but not smarmy, helpful and clued up but not pushy. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 14:06
Car dealers - Harleyman
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the VED is £20 per year as opposed >> to the £175 i currently pay (though this is insignificant in the overall costs of >> running a car). I'm glad you think so. I pay £30 for the i10 and the saving over the previous Punto keeps it in petrol for nearly a month. That is not IMO an insignificant saving and was one of the reasons we bought the car. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 14:37
Car dealers - Skip
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>> I'm glad you think so. I pay £30 for the i10 and the saving over >> the previous Punto keeps it in petrol for nearly a month. That is not IMO >> an insignificant saving and was one of the reasons we bought the car. >> Well taking into account £3-4000 a year depreciation, £2500 a year in fuel, £350 insurance just to start with then yes I do think that the saving in VED is irrelevant. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 14:51
Car dealers - legacylad
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That old perennial depreciation...I am delighted to only be paying £280 VED pa on my '04 330Ci. Very little annual depreciation (paid £9950 for it 3.5 years ago and now worth about £7k on a good day). Only costs have been a towbar fitted, 4 new tyres, annual oil changes @£70 and fuel. But averaging 30mpg and covering less than 10k miles pa I consider it very economical motoring.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sun 20 Oct 13 at 14:52
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 17:57
Car dealers - Harleyman
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>> >> Well taking into account £3-4000 a year depreciation, £2500 a year in fuel, £350 insurance >> just to start with then yes I do think that the saving in VED is >> irrelevant. >> I suppose it's all relevant to what you drive. Personally I wouldn't want a car that depreciated by that much annually, but then again my car is a basic means of transport, we've owned it for over four years and are unlikely to change it for another four. Given that we only paid five grand for it new, thanks to the scrappage scheme, such benefits as cheap VED do make a significant difference at this end of the market when you add it up over the lifetime cost of the car. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 18:03
Car dealers - sooty123
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>> >> >> >> >> Well taking into account £3-4000 a year depreciation, £2500 a year in fuel, £350 >> insurance >> >> just to start with then yes I do think that the saving in VED >> is >> >> irrelevant. >> >> >> >> I suppose it's all relevant to what you drive. So true. It works out for you but there are many out there spending thousands to save a few quid on road tax and get an extra fuel mpg. People seem to get fixated on it, I bet in many cases it actually costs them to change to a 'cheaper' to run car. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 20:35
Car dealers - Armel Coussine
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No offence to anyone else, but I so wish bell boy would come back. Not only was he a widely-experienced car dealer, but he was a poet and surrealist. A win-win situation... but we bored or insulted him or something. He should have listened to me, not those >>>>> merchants. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 20:38
Car dealers - sooty123
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>> No offence to anyone else, but I so wish bell boy would come back. Not >> only was he a widely-experienced car dealer, but he was a poet and surrealist. >> >> A win-win situation... but we bored or insulted him or something. He should have listened >> to me, not those >>>>> merchants. >> I remember him, can't say I ever got him, probably the poet stuff. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 21:01
Car dealers - -
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>> No offence to anyone else, but I so wish bell boy would come back. Me too, he was old school on care and miantenance as well as humourous in his posts. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 21:27
Car dealers - R.P.
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| I'll dig out his e-mail address and plead with him |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 22:18
Car dealers - YazG
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About a year ago I made it my mission to find ways of haggling with car dealerships and beating the car salesmen. I listened to everyman and his dog, including the ‘fat bloke down the pub’ but realized everyone was talking the talk but no one walked the walk so to speak. Recently I purchased a few ‘Insider Guides’ to buying a car to see what they had to say and here’s my review of some recent ones. 1/All Buyers are Liars – Purchased via Amazon. An interesting read with a few nuggets in there but no real help or secrets revealed. Well written but more common sense than anything else and gets confused between UK and US markets. My rating 3/5 2/Confessions of a Car Sales Manager – Purchased via Amazon Kindle. Very boring read and designed solely for the US market with no ‘Inside information’. Author confused between writing a novel and a consumer guide I think. My rating 2/5 3/Buy a Car in an Hour or Less- Purchased vie Amazon Kindle. Low priced ebook but a dull read. Again more for the Americans and really more about the author blowing his own trumpet rather than revealing anything that may actually help you save money. My rating 1/5 4/Mike Brewers Wheeler dealer Knowhow- Purchased via Amazon. This was my biggest disappointment as I expected the most from Mr Brewer. It turned out he writes more about himself and his favourite cars and offers nothing in how to get a great deal. I think the reality is car buying has changed and Mike is still stuck in the old way of buying and selling. More a money making exercise for him and at the high price I would avoid. My rating 2/5 5/Car Sales Uncovered – Purchased via their website carsalesuncovered.com but also on Amazon. Definitely the best book I have read and actually does provide a lot of ‘insider secrets’ that really surprised me and would help any potential car buyer. Most importantly it is predominately designed for the UK market. My rating 5/5 Hope this helps guys. |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 22:24
Car dealers - sooty123
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| How useful were they over a bit research online and a good idea of a price you wanted to pay? |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 22:51
Car dealers - Runfer D'Hills
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What a remarkably helpful first post Yaz and welcome to the forum...Why not tell us a bit more about yourself? Like what you do for a living for example... ;-) |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 22:55
Car dealers - Zero
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| Wonder what the pay is like at carsalesuncovered.com? |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 22:59
Car dealers - Runfer D'Hills
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Oh now then Z, you really think? Surely not? That's just you being an old cynic, chap's clearly just trying to help, no? ;-) |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 23:10
Car dealers - bathtub tom
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>>Wonder what the pay is like at carsalesuncovered.com? I'm as cynical as |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 23:04
Car dealers - Lygonos
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>>Hope this helps guys. Doubt this post will be here for long |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 23:21
Car dealers - Lygonos
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cut'n'paste from cached wikianswers.... tinyurl.com/nbjx2ol |
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New Sun 20 Oct 13 23:27
Car dealers - Runfer D'Hills
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As one of our teachers used to say, "Young man, you know you have let the school down, but more pertinently, you should realise you have let yourself down"... ;-) |
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New Mon 21 Oct 13 08:16
Car dealers - Crankcase
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Yeah, but that Mike Brewer. I like that Wheeler Dealer thing sometimes - even Mrs C will watch a little before huffing off to do something more interesting. She seems to quite like Edd. But at the end of every programme, the formula seems to be "Hey Edd, we've spent 9k on this car and it's the best for sale in the world. I'm asking 15k for it!" Buyer: "I'll give you £9003". Brewer: "Done! Wahey!" And obviously if you take off Edd's labour charges they lose ten gazilion on every deal. All good fun, but I don't know if he's made a penny on cars in his life, unless he runs a Maserati dealership in his spare time or something. Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 21 Oct 13 at 08:18
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New Mon 21 Oct 13 09:15
Car dealers - Skip
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>> "Hey Edd, we've spent 9k on this car and it's the best for sale in >> the world. I'm asking 15k for it!" >> Buyer: "I'll give you £9003". >> Brewer: "Done! Wahey!" >> All good fun, but I don't know if he's made a penny on cars in >> his life, unless he runs a Maserati dealership in his spare time or something IIRC it was revealed somewhere that the "buyers" are usually members of the production team and most of the cars end up in some compound near Reading. I quite enjoy watching the programme but tend to turn it off before the sale as it so clearly is a "set up". Also I suspect that the prices of the parts used are massaged to fit the profit. I also recall them showing a shot of one of the cars which clearly had new calipers, discs and pads fitted but of which there was no mention of ! Also seems strange that they never shown any going for MOT or if the car is an import they are never shown at the end with UK plates nor is there any mention of registration etc ! But then perhaps I am just an old cynic ! |
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New Mon 21 Oct 13 10:38
Car dealers - VxFan
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>> IIRC it was revealed somewhere that the "buyers" are usually members of the production team and most of the cars end up in some compound near Reading. They're sold by Attaboy TV on various auction sites and forums to members of the public. eg, www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-dealers/100260/attaboy-tv/ www.cobraclub.com/forum/traders-section/46368-g-d-cobra-1000-miles-clock.html www.deloreans.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3799 www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C365380 archive.is/g4xS archive.is/61ft archive.is/NYmI www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1974-Porsche-914-Targa-for-sale-/260901537522?lgeo=1&clk_rvr_id=533907201508&vectorid=229508 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1977-Renault-Alpine-A310-for-sale-/260962952611?clk_rvr_id=533895492228 If you google the phone number 0207 740 3000 you'll find quite a few that have been previously sold. Also, www.discoveryuk.com/web/wheeler-dealers/buy-the-cars/ |
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New Sat 26 Oct 13 19:35
Car dealers - spamcan61
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OK a pointless bit of spleen venting :-) SWMBO needs another vehicle since previous Zaffy is a write-off :-(((. Today reminded me why I HATE buying cars. I'm nearly always buying in the 1K to 2K bracket so I don't expect to be ushered into a glass palace and treated like a deity, with rose petals scattered in my path. I know there are decent dealers and cars in this price range because I've dealt with them in the past. OK so prospective Zaffy #1, according to the advert, has twin sunroofs, leather and satnav. None of those are important criteria in this price range; I inspect the vehicle and it has no sunroof at all, standard radio and the upholstery is light grey cloth with dirt ground into every square inch. Looks like half a dozen muddy Labradors have been left alone in it for several weeks. I don't bother opening the car door and move on... Zaffy #2 is advertised as FSH, mileage about 60K. Interior condition suggests it's done about 250K, driver's seat is worn down to the foam in places. ......sigh...... Zaffy #3 looks a tad over priced, but on initial inspection it looks very clean and tidy, paperwork in order, very low mileage for year, full main dealer service history :)) . So I lift the bonnet. Oh how my little heart sinks..."coolant" level in the header tank is at least an inch too high, looks like cola rather than Orange Tango :-((. I gingerly unscrew the cap and ask SWMBO to rev it a bit....bubble bubble bubble .... expensive trouble. With the warm engine idling the cooling fan is going on and off every couple of minutes, not normal Zaffy behaviour. I politely suggest to the seller that the car possibly has a failed head gasket, he says it can't possibly be so because it's low mileage and has FSH. .******* Ah well need to find a few more to look at tomorrow.... |
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