On my way in to work is nearly a mile of straight, NSL single carriageway that runs, still straight, into a 30 limit, before curving into a built-up area. I'm used to lifting off early and letting the speed bleed off from 50ish until (if I'm in the Volvo) it's ready for third to proceed up the High Street.
This morning I was following an AA driving school car. I held well back on the NSL, as I do, but as we approached the 30 signs the car braked, unnecessarily and, I thought, rather ostentatiously. (Sorry, Perro - you can look it up!) There was no hazard in front; it was clearly for the limit - only the car braked to about 25.
We'll allow for the manoeuvre not being done well; I was surprised to see it done at all, so what I wondered was whether instructors now teach learners to brake for limits like this. And, if so, what other things do younger drivers (my licence dates from 1988) do as a matter of course that I might find surprising? And what habits of mine might soon seem as antiquated as my F-in-L's laborious 5-4-3-2-1 downshifts on every motorway off-slip?
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>> I'm used to lifting off early and letting the speed bleed off
>>
I do the same in similar situations, I wonder if modern driving instructors treat that sort of thing as coasting which is now a big no no.
I tend to do a fair amount of that as I try to avoid braking on motorways and dual carriageways where possible, preferring to keep a reasonable space, observe what other traffic is doing and anticipate and back off when other traffic starts to slow.
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Driving instructors only teach to pass the test, NOT how to drive and look after a car.
If we all drove the way driving instructors teach, wed be buying new brake pads every six months.
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>> Driving instructors only teach to pass the test, NOT how to drive and look after
>> a car.
>>
>> If we all drove the way driving instructors teach, wed be buying new brake pads
>> every six months.
>>
It doesn't take long for that old one to come up whenever driving instruction is discussed. Pray tell us how it is possible to teach someone to pass a test without teaching them to drive, in twenty years I never discovered it. And I guarantee the cars I traded in with around 100k on the clock were in well above average mechanical condition with all servicing bang on the nose. I couldn't afford for them not to be.
And don't be so quick to judge by the actions of one driving school car you've seen. Unless you are in it you have no idea what was said or why it was done.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Thu 19 Sep 13 at 16:36
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>> Driving instructors only teach to pass the test, NOT how to drive and look after
>> a car.
>>
Not all driving instructors. Mine taught me where all the police mobile camera vans liked to park.
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>> Driving instructors only teach to pass the test, NOT how to drive and look after
>> a car.
>>
>> If we all drove the way driving instructors teach, wed be buying new brake pads
>> every six months.
>>
I'd love to see the people who come out with tosh like that actually do the job for a while and show how it should be done. And if there was a way of teaching people to test standard without teaching them to drive I never discovered it.
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I passed my test in 1977 and SFAIR instructor was fairly hot on anticipation. I've subsequently taught myself to use at least some of the Advanced Motoring techniques and consciously manage speed with minimal brake.
Both my offspring have learned/passed since 2010 so I'll ask them tonight. IIRC however they've previously mentioned being taught to brake for the limit.
Approach to village is an NSL unclassified county road but speed is limited at our end by a double bend.
Daughter has learned to anticipate and, as I do, judge the point at which coming off the gas then dropping to 4th will allow speed to bleed off smoothly in time to pass the 30 limit at 30.
Son still tends to brake and does not take kindly to Fatherly advice.
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In that situation I would have been taught to slowly ease of the gas before the 30 limit. It sounds like a bad instructor to me.
A lot of these training schools really just offer driving instructor training as the core of their business and often make promises they cannot keep. For example earn £40k a year as an ADI. It is easy to see how people fall for it.
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My daughter passed her test a few weeks ago and we are very grateful to the instructor for getting her to the required standard.
I am now teaching her to drive!
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In one of those regretting in retrospect scenarios, I recall being chastised by my driving instructor once. However, he didn't tell me what I should actually have done, and to this day I don't really know.
It's a left turn where you have to swing out into the road to make the manoeuvre. I indicated, had to swing out to the right to get round the corner, and got ticked off for indicating left and steering right. I don't recall what he told me I was actually supposed to do, if that was wrong, but as entering my workplace every day involves exactly that sequence, I'm never quite sure if I'm indicating correctly. I can't see any better way of doing it though.
Sorry, that might be a minor thread divert - I have no idea what they teach learners about indicators these days. I do recall a huge kerfuffle in the other place once about whether you should indicate if there's nobody there to see it though...
Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 19 Sep 13 at 11:48
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>>>got ticked off for indicating left and steering right
Mr F snr was a huge mileage fast business driver and very good in his time. He drummed into me never to move in the opposite direction to indicating in the way you describe but I see a lot of folks do it for no good reason.
Funnily enough it's something I've warned my daughter not to do.
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So what DO you do? Indicate right, swing, then flip to left almost immediately? Not indicate at all but swing out and then put the left flasher on?
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Have you got a Google map link of that junction CC, I'm struggling to think of any junction in a car where it's necessary to pull over to the right to turn left!
I'm happy to admit to being wrong though...:)
I was taught to approach a roundabout in the nearside lane to go straight across but if the turning I wanted was past 12 O'clock then I was to use the right hand lane.
I understand it's now taught to approach in the right hand lane to go straight across...perhaps Fenlander can confirm?
Pat
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It's an entry to our workplace which is a narrow gateway that I have to do daily, Pat. You have to go wide in the road to get the angle right.
The junction my instructor was talking about (in Bedford in 1979) has long been replaced by an updated road system.
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>>The junction my instructor was talking about (in Bedford in 1979) has long been replaced by an updated road system.
The left turn from Mile road into London road (before they put the roundabout in)?
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I think it was just over one the bridges down near the Newnham part of the town actually. Last time I was down that way there appeared to be a new to me Tescos and something pyramidical called Oasis and so on.
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>>>was taught to approach a roundabout in the nearside lane to go straight across but if the turning I wanted was past 12 O'clock then I was to use the right hand lane. I understand it's now taught to approach in the right hand lane to go straight across...perhaps Fenlander can confirm?
My daughter was taught and passed her test driving as you were taught Pat. However it brings up a sore point I've not mentioned so far.
Some months ago my wife was supervising our daughter in the C3 on a rainy Sat am. Daughter had just entered a wide roundabout with no lane markings from a single carriageway in the left lane intending to continue straight over (which if you were ultra critical was at about 1 oclock) when a driver on her right took a sudden move to take the left exit and swiped across her.
The left exit was the start of a dual carriageway and he *assumed* she was going to take the nearside lane of that exit despite the fact that she wasn't indicating to do so. He'd intended to power past her to take the outer lane of that exit.
Insurance want to settle 50-50 so we are already down £500 excess (young driver rate) with the threat both she and Mrs F will have a claim to declare at renewa and extra premiumsl.
The fight goes on.
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pda
I asked my ADI pal this very question quite recently. Approaching a large roundabout, with 4 exits, at 8, 10, 12.30 and 3 o'clocks I have always used the left lane for the third exit. He tells me that his pupils are always instructed to use the right lane as the third exit is past 12, although only marginally so. All exits are single carriageways.
I have always used the left hand lane to proceed to the third exit, and occasionally been carved up and cursed at. So now I know!
My IAM instructor always told me to 'make progress' whenever possible. Legally. I never had a problem with that as I have done it for the past 40 years. Not always legally, especially overtaking a group of 5 or 6 mimsers behind an HGV on a single carriageway NSL as happened today. My only concern being, of which I am very aware, is that one of them will pull out without using the OS mirror or glancing over the shoulder first.
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Thanks for that information LL, so it's still not altogether clear then!
I wouldn't worry about 'making progress' as you're obviously aware of the dangers.
Pat
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>> In one of those regretting in retrospect scenarios, I recall being chastised by my driving
>> instructor once.
>>
>> It's a left turn where you have to swing out into the road to make
>> the manoeuvre. I indicated, had to swing out to the right to get round the
>> corner, and got ticked off for indicating left and steering right.
Common sense applies doesn't it? I have to use the opposite side of the road to turn left into my drive, unless I want to risk the ditch and clamber over the undropped bit of kerb. Even then I need a bit of a swing and have to do it very slowly, which causes more hassle for following cars, not less.
You have to control the traffic behind, drive on your mirrors a bit. It's no good signalling left then swinging out into the side of a quick-reacting overtaker which is the risk for a tyro, such as a new driving school pupil. A more experienced or natural driver will handle it instinctively.
Sometimes there are parked cars on my side so I am on the wrong side of the road anyway. If not, I check the mirrors, signal in good time and claim the crown of the road if there's no oncoming, and watch any traffic behind throughout the manoeuvre - very occasionally you'll get somebody who feints at passing on the inside, last one was a moped rider with L plates.
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At our old house it was necessary to swing out to the right before turning left into the street because of cars parked right up to the junction. Don't know what the driving test way to do this is but I would move far enough to the right before indicatingbecause there was enough space for someone to overtake
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Access from A5 to village is one of those triangular junctions that are common in some parts of the country.
Going to/from Towcester its well constructed, properly surfaced and angled in direction of travel. Coming in from north though its a tight turn, about 100 degrees into a narrow and very poorly surfaced lane which floods and in winter freezes. You need to slow right down to 10mph or less on A5 before turning in.
There's no need to swing and plenty scope to overtake but even indicating well in advance and braking gently can earn an irritated 'parp' from following vehilcles.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 19 Sep 13 at 14:02
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Surprised Pat didn't say this, I've seen a truck signal left, and move over to the right in order to get the space to turn left into a very narrow entrance.
As second car following I held well back as I suspected the truck driver wanted to do an unusual manoeuvre, but the numpty following went to dart up the narrow gap on the left just as the truck driver was turning left. He stopped and missed the car, but I bet the air in the cab was tinged blue.
As it was London, I caught the car up at the queue for the road junction about 200 yards further on.
Had the truck indicated right then left - the chances of a accident would be increased, and the truck driver would have been partly to blame. I reckon he did the right thing so up yours Mr Driving Instructor.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Old saying, unfair to many teachers, but you can see how it arose.
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It's always a dodgy manoeuvre SP but one we have to do often, and hopefully are aware of the possibility of our actions being misunderstood.
It's always made worse when the lorry driver doesn't know the turning and is on top of it before knowing it's tight.
Pat
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Just remembered we had something similar on our Scottish holiday this year:
goo.gl/maps/exuvM
It's the turn on your left there, and you couldn't take it my car without swinging out to the right first.
(Incidentally the cottage was about half a mile up the hill from there and it was really very excellent. Fantastic part of the world.)
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I've been thinking of going to Skye soon, CC. Does the cottage owner have a website perchance? Always good to get a recommendation.
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Tigh a Creagan, Glen Conon. They seem to be on a number of websites - I think we used Scottish Country Cottages but they're here too, probably cheaper. If you do go to North Skye, the Quiraing is just up the road, and is a really stunning walk (unless like me, you wuss out of the last bit cos it's a bit high.)
selfcatering.travel/tigh-a-creagan
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>> Tigh a Creagan, Glen Conon. They seem to be on a number of websites -
>> I think we used Scottish Country Cottages but they're here too, probably cheaper. If you
>> do go to North Skye, the Quiraing is just up the road, and is a
>> really stunning walk (unless like me, you wuss out of the last bit cos it's
>> a bit high.)
>>
>> selfcatering.travel/tigh-a-creagan
Thanks for that pointer CC. I'm looking beyond Skye to the Hebrides in mid June. Front runner atm is somewhere we've stayed before looking across the Minch towrds Tigh a Creagan!!. There are a few places on sct worth following up as well though, quite like west Lewis towards Breanish but it's a bit isolated if weather turns grim.
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I holidayed on Barra once, right up the other end of the island from the, erm, capital village Castlebay. Now that was isloated.
We were out walking one fine sunny day when we were suddenly caught out without waterproofs in a torrential downpour. A local tradesman in a knackered Mk2 Escort estate spotted us and stopped, offering us (me, wife, Jack Russell) a lift. The vehicle only had one seat, the driver's, the rest was full of tools and other debris. But we were so glad for the shelter we jumped in and made the best of it. Eternally grateful to that chap. Idiot grockles. Didn't go out without the proper gear again.
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This is getting into serious thread drift, so sorry everyone else. We wanted to get out to some of the islands but the ferries were just not easily do-able from Uig, so wasn't really an option.
Oh they GO all right, but they come back straight away, and there's only one a day, so you have to stay overnight, or get to Lewis, stay fifteen minutes and come back. All got a bit complex.
Next time, if we want to go to Lewis or somewhere, we'll book and stay on that island. There is talk of the airstrip on Skye being opened up again, which would make the whole thing a lot more accessible - it's a LONG drive from Cambridge anyway. But we were very happy with all there was to do where we were, and it's gone down as one of "bestest ever" holidays.
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>> This is getting into serious thread drift, so sorry everyone else. We wanted to get
>> out to some of the islands but the ferries were just not easily do-able from
>> Uig, so wasn't really an option.
>>
IMHO neither Harris/Lewis or Uists can be done justice in day trips.
As it is and has been for many years the ferry is timed for needs of Islanders with both Hebridean terminals having three early morning (07:30) departures in a week. Sunday operations were to Lochmaddy only for many years so as to accomodate the Presbyterians on Harris. Effect of that was to set up a useful extra crossing at 20:00 on a Saturday so that Hebridean Isles/Hebrides was on Uig overnight.
I think they finally got a Sunday service to Harris last year.
There is occasional talk of splitting the Tarbert and Lochmaddy services and operating with 2 vessels but I'm not convinced it would work. Before the Sound of Harris ferry opened c1996 there were two or three services a week direct from Tarbert to Lochmaddy with traffic on other days, including Saturday, going Tarbert>Uig>Lochmaddy. Vehicles going through, including the weekly Wallace Arnold 'Lord of The Isles' coach tour had to reverse on at Tarbert. and be arranged so as not to interfere with vehicles coming off or on at Uig.
The first vessel to operate the service from inauguration in 64 through to 85, another 'Hebrides', was a side loader with vehicles lowered to the garage deck on a lift.
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A beautiful part of the world. Scenes from around there featured in the film Stardust starring Michelle Fiver. One of my favourite short books by Neil Gaiman.
I remember wild camping in the area many years ago, driving up from Bradford in my Mk1 Polo (RWX 566R) on Boxing Day just in time for the 4 o'clock ferry. An epic days long snowy drive for a newly qualified driver on near deserted roads early to mid 70s.
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>>>Skye... LONG drive from Cambridge anyway. But we were very happy with all there was to do where we were,
>>> and it's gone down as one of "bestest ever" holidays.
Similar here re distance from our location not too far from Cambridge only ours was a boating holiday based at a cottage just a few miles from the Skye bridge so Skye was an easy drive and we spent a bit of time there.
The cottage we had was modern in idyllic private grounds yet not too far from a decent road to the shops (and Skye)... reasonable weekly cost too.
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Driving schools coach people to pass the 'driving test'. They do this by teaching paranoia, shameless mimsing and systematic, severe clutch abuse among other things. Many drivers never unlearn them.
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I dunno, AC - I think I mentioned before that when I learned to drive you rarely hit the limit. In a 30 you'd be pootling along at an indicated 25 with the occasional burst to 30. Limit not a target, all that. Exceed it at your peril - a fail on the test and a brief shouty session in a lesson.
Today I think you get penalised if you're not doing the limit pretty sharpish and keep it there or a little above, or so it seems.
So I think my generation was a bit more mimsy at the learning stage at least, or maybe that was just my instructor. Times have changed.
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>> Today I think you get penalised if you're not doing the limit pretty sharpish and keep it there or a little above, or so it seems.
I too learned in the days when even touching the 30 limit meant a fail. I would expect exceeding it, even by a small margin, to mean a fail even today... but what you say is encouraging. In my day you had to slow down, changing gear usually, when passing minor turnings. That was what I meant by shameless mimsing: you had to learn to do it and look cheerful. It was ghastly, and misguided in my opinion.
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Conversely AM, when I took my IAM test a few years ago, 3 to be precise, I broke the speed limit on a few occasions. Sometimes deliberately. And I passed with flying colours. Pure luck! I remember the examiner commenting on my correct 'use of speed & power' when joinng a motorway. Lanes 1 & 2 were congested with HGVs, so seeing a gap in lane 3 I accelerated directly from the slip road to lane 3 in a smooth line, with an indicated 90 so as not to cause any of the rep mobiles tanking along in lane 3 to brake. Once past the procession of HGVs I returned to lane 1 at a sedate 70. Similarly, when asked to leave the motorway at the next exit, rather than sit behind several HGVs for the next mile, I accelerated past them at 85 leaving plenty of time & distance for a safe exit.
Incidentally, my examiner was also a police bike instructor.
My 'Skills for Life' course was worth every penny and got this old dog out of quite a few bad habits, of which I was not even aware. I don't want to sound sanctimonious cos I still screw up now & again.
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>> Driving schools coach people to pass the 'driving test'. They do this by teaching paranoia,
>> shameless mimsing and systematic, severe clutch abuse among other things. Many drivers never unlearn them.
>>
>>
Rubbish, young man.
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My instructor pals more advanced pupils certainly don't mimse. Only recently I was driving home, roof down, at a sedentary 65, chillin yo... and one of his pupils was keeping up with me at a safe distance. She passed her test, first time, a week later. Typical Audi driver. Probably in a 1.1 Corsa now.
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>>If we all drove the way driving instructors teach, wed be buying new brake pads every six months.
>>It doesn't take long for that old one to come up whenever driving instruction is discussed
For my part where I said now eldest daughter has passed her test I'm teaching her to drive...
I mean the finer points that are outside the scope of test instruction like...
Braking stability on mixed surfaces, driving on gravel tracks, grip reduction in the wet & on greasy roundabouts, correct cornering lines out on country B-roads, making every steering/brake/gear/throttle input so it doesn't disturb a passenger, advanced observation as in the Driving Like Sherlock thread etc etc.
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>> For my part where I said now eldest daughter has passed her test I'm teaching
>> her to drive...
>>
>> I mean the finer points that are outside the scope of test instruction like...
>>
>> Braking stability on mixed surfaces, driving on gravel tracks, grip reduction in the wet &
>> on greasy roundabouts, correct cornering lines out on country B-roads, making every steering/brake/gear/throttle input so
>> it doesn't disturb a passenger, advanced observation as in the Driving Like Sherlock thread etc
>> etc.
>>
And well done to you sir.
No matter how many lessons someone has under supervision they are looking at a minimum two years before they can be classed as 'good' rather than safe. Out on your own in a non dual controlled car and driving routes and distances outside the scope of a one hour paid for lesson is where you advance your own driving and having a patient parent along to offer advice speeds the process up considerably - but it's still on your own you really progress, when you realise why you can't afford mistakes.
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Well said Robin
My ADI pal has 'good' pupils who pass first time. Then mummy & daddy buy them wheels, they chauffeur their pals to pubs & clubs, loud music, loud chit chat, lose concentration and crash into some innocent motorist. I have first hand knowledge of this and it is a real wake up call. Welcome to reality. Especially in Bradford when you rear end a taxi with one passenger. Or was it four passengers? All now with whiplash. And its their word against yours.
More than 2 years before you have the experience to be called a 'good' driver.
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I wonder if some young drivers are taught a bit of common sense at all.
We had a firm round today to clean the carpet on the parlour floor. He arrived promptly at 1330 as arranged. I saw his van arrive and park outside the house. Then I did a double take, SWM had parked the Note in that spot, had she gone out ? Apparently not as she was sat at the table in front of me enjoying her meagre pensioner's lunch !
Our car turned out to be still there.........what chummy had managed to do was insert his 5'6" or so Berlingo sized van on the 6' pavement between our wall and the Note. Lordy knows how he got out, but he was a long time coming to the front door ! The first thing I did was to ask him to park it on the road...he looked a bit pained and said he had stuff to get out. I insisted as there was no room for people who could actually legally use the footpath including trolley pushers.
He moved it so all four wheels were on the roadway and managed to block both my drive and next door's. I reckon he had to bring his kit an extra 6 ft from the new position and his machine was on wheels anyway. Lazy sod. Only in his 20s !
He did a first class job on the carpet, though.
Ted
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My BSM instructor years ago always said you have to make every move or glance very obvious and exagerated so that the examiner can see that you are doing it.
So he always set the mirrors very slightly out of adjustment, so that I had to move my head slightly when looking in them. Always touch the brakes at a speed limit sign so he knows you have seen it. Etc.
He added, obviously you don't drive like that after you have passed, but I'm paying him to get me through the test, not to be a good driver.
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>> My BSM instructor years ago always said you have to make every move or glance
>> very obvious and exagerated so that the examiner can see that you are doing it.
>>
>> So he always set the mirrors very slightly out of adjustment, so that I had
>> to move my head slightly when looking in them. Always touch the brakes at a
>> speed limit sign so he knows you have seen it. Etc.
>>
>> He added, obviously you don't drive like that after you have passed, but I'm paying
>> him to get me through the test, not to be a good driver.
>>
He was an idiot.
Examiners are highly trained and constantly supervised, they will see whether you move your eyes to the mirror or not every time it matters. The will also know whether you have observed road signs and markings by the way you react. That's why they're sitting beside you, to observe those things.
Driving school cars have two extra mirrors - one to see behind, the other aimed at the pupils eyes so mirror checks can be observed.
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>>
>>
>> He was an idiot.
>>
>> Examiners are highly trained and constantly supervised, they will see whether you move your eyes
>>
Probably he was by today's standards, but that was 46 years ago. Driving instructors teach people to pass the test as it is, not as it idealy should be.
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>>>And well done to you sir. No matter how many lessons someone has under supervision they are looking at a minimum two years before they can be classed as 'good' rather than safe.
Thanks for that comment. Immediately she passed her test I agonised over the gulf between my near 40yrs experience and hers... yet realised we'd be meeting all the same challenges on a daily basis.
She has an interest in driving a little over and above just being a mode of transport and I'm trying to spark that further so she gains a real understanding that can massively help to keep you safe.
The one crucial experience I forgot to mention was motorway driving and the additional skills needed in that faster environment. We are lucky (in many ways) to be within two minutes of a 4 lane motorway with several different junction types that can be used on a trip to town.
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Motorway, or anyway dual carriageway urban freeway, driving should certainly be part of the driving test. It's absurd that terrified mimsers should find themselves suddenly having to merge at 70 when they've never driven over 45 in their lives.
I can't understand what people mean about wearing out the brake pads. To pass the test you never have to do more than stroke the pedal even for the 'emergency stop'. No, it's the clutch that instructors tell (perhaps very ignorant) learners to abuse shamelessly at those uphill junctions. Many a dual-mass flywheel must have been cooked as a result by people who think they've been taught to drive. Or so I imagine. Lovely for the garage trade of course.
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No, it's the clutch that instructors tell (perhaps very ignorant) learners to abuse shamelessly
>> at those uphill junctions. Many a dual-mass flywheel must have been cooked as a result
>> by people who think they've been taught to drive.
>>
You must have sat in on a few lessons to have seen these instructors who happily let pupils destroy their clutches, AC. And they must have been very strange or very rich instructors as a replacement on a MINI, for example, costs over £1200.
Pray tell.
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Just by way of a bit of thread drift, well, drift-ish anyway, I noticed a local ( quite well known hereabouts ) driving instructor today giving a lesson in an Audi Q3.
Struck me as an unusual choice of car for a driving instructor. Not that it's anything I'd even pretend to know anything about.
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>> Just by way of a bit of thread drift, well, drift-ish anyway, I noticed a
>> local ( quite well known hereabouts ) driving instructor today giving a lesson in an
>> Audi Q3.
>>
>> Struck me as an unusual choice of car for a driving instructor. Not that it's
>> anything I'd even pretend to know anything about.
There's a school round here using a BMW 1 series. I'm glad my two learned on Pug 206/207 and similar
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I learned in a Volvo 240. ( my dad's )
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I learned in a Reliant Regal. Motorcycle licence, so no supervising driver needed.
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>> You must have sat in on a few lessons to have seen these instructors who happily let pupils destroy their clutches
Of course I haven't RR. But I have seen newly qualified drivers abusing their clutches quite a few times. No doubt the instructors tell pupils they should only slip the clutch for a few seconds.
But how few is a few? Three seconds is fine, but fifteen or twenty, especially when repeated a few times, may well cause heat damage. The new drivers are told to keep clutch slip as brief as possible, but they often don't know what that means, or forget, or think it won't matter just this once...
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>> Of course I haven't RR. But I have seen newly qualified drivers abusing their clutches
>> quite a few times. No doubt the instructors tell pupils they should only slip the
>> clutch for a few seconds.
>>
>> But how few is a few? Three seconds is fine, but fifteen or twenty, especially
>> when repeated a few times, may well cause heat damage. The new drivers are told
>> to keep clutch slip as brief as possible, but they often don't know what that
>> means, or forget, or think it won't matter just this once...
>>
Now there you've hit on one of the realities of being a newly qualified driver. It's easy sitting in a car with an experienced instructor guiding you to minimal use of clutch slip when pulling away on an incline, quite another the first few times you have to do it on your own and are terrified of rolling into the car behind. That's the moment when you redline the rev counter and only dare release the clutch when you can smell it.
They get over it (mostly).
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>> Now there you've hit on one of the realities of being a newly qualified driver.
>> It's easy sitting in a car with an experienced instructor guiding you to minimal use
>> of clutch slip when pulling away on an incline, quite another the first few times
>> you have to do it on your own and are terrified of rolling into the
>> car behind. That's the moment when you redline the rev counter and only dare release
>> the clutch when you can smell it.
>>
>> They get over it (mostly).
>>
When I was learning to drive. School car and no other person/car to add to my practise. I can remember a clever senior instructor giving me new instructions in the hour before my test.
(Not my normal car or instructor ) " Change down into first !" It was a new fangled car with synchromesh on first. What a plonker instructing like that minutes before my test when I had only used 1st to take off.
Proud of my little book I did no more driving for a year.
In those days with a year old ticket you could hire a car so I did.
I learned to drive in a Viva. I arrived at the old Terminal Two at Heathrow and did the paperwork. I was shown the car a Victor 101 estate parked in a line nose to tail just outside.
Glanced inside at not 4 on the floor but 3 on the column. Oh SH....
Trying to look calm I asked the guy for a quick demo of the controls- 1st, 2nd, 3rd Reverse with a flick of the wrist and off he went.
It was a real brown trousers job trying to extricate this huge lump when the gears seemed impossible to find.
I struggled all day but managed to get it back to LHR
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Thread resurrection time...
When I first started using this forum*, my eldest daughter was 5 years old. Well she's just passed her theory test, and is now all set to build up to her practical. My question is to do with the emergency stop.
Since 2004 all cars have had to be fitted with ABS; many were thus equipped for years before. Does today's driving test require candidates to stop without triggering the ABS, in a similar manner to years gone by where we had to stop without locking a wheel? Or do they have to demonstrate knowledge and use of the car's systems to bring it to a controlled halt in the shortest possible distance?
*Ok, the HJ backroom.
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Don't know, but I'd vote for hitting the brake HARD.
I always thought more people probably crashed through not braking soon enough and hard enough than braking too hard, even pre-ABS. It must certainly be the case now.
That was the rationale for brake-assist, which 'detects' sudden sharp braking and ups the brake pressure automatically.
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One failed the test on the emergency stop if one skidded. ABS means you can't fail the test on that point any longer. As long as she is under control during the emergency stop, ABS triggering or not, its a pass.
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That's a clear and concise answer Z, thanks.
What happens when I put her in granny's mint 50k mile X-reg Clio next year, though?
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>> That's a clear and concise answer Z, thanks.
>>
>> What happens when I put her in granny's mint 50k mile X-reg Clio next year,
>> though?
Its got ABS
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I think driving examiners want to see a very rapid stop without the driver losing control of the car. I don't think they would care about a bit of wheel-locking provided control was maintained.
Obviously locking all the wheels immediately and sliding down the road making flats on the tyres and rotating a bit, slipping down the camber and so on, would get poor marks. But as people have pointed out, modern cars won't do that except on pure ice, having a variety of safety devices built in.
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I drove a car without ABS the other day and someone pulled out in front of me - not an unusual experience here.
I braked as I would normally, wheels locked, huge screeching and briefly sideways without a great deal of slowing down.
Most sobering.
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In the old days the roads had lots of skid marks and the sound effects triggered by locked wheels was frequently heard. These days it comes as a surprise to see long black skid marks on the road.
There must be just a few situations where this is triggered ?
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>> In the old days the roads had lots of skid marks and the sound effects
>> triggered by locked wheels was frequently heard. These days it comes as a surprise to
>> see long black skid marks on the road.
>> There must be just a few situations where this is triggered ?
Lorries
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>> >>
>> Lorries
>>
And locked wheels on trailers being towed by tractors. They often go on for a mile or two before snaking into a layby where they magically disappear, presumably at the point where farmer Ted set about the offending wheel with a lump hammer.
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It's surprising how far you can go with the trailer brake left on before it starts smoking....not that I'd know of course!
Pat
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Examiners test you in the car you are driving, not what you may be driving after you've passed. They don't expect you to double declutch in case you buy one of Cliff's old jalopies.
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And are you allowed to use parking sensors and/or cameras nowadays when doing the parking manoeuvres?
If so, that disadvantages a pupil in car not fitted with that feature.
("disadvantage" used there in the horrible modern stylee akin to "disrespect" nowadays apparently also being a verb.)
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I think parking by touch and reversing by feel is a fail tho.
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Mrs Z seems to think that's ok?
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My wife believes that parking sensors make a sound like metal and plastic being crushed. So she simply reverses until she hears it.
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>> Mrs Z seems to think that's ok?
Indeed. It would be ok if she was a little more sensitive in the touchy feely department.
(stop sniggering at the back D'Humph minor)
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Comment from my examiner - 'do you run excursions to the kerb?'
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.....or alternatively "just a minute, I'll get the gangplank".......
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Yesterday I was parked outside our local driving test center and watched some of the candidates arriving/ departing/ returning.
One young lass arrived back and the tester did not look amused. The car came to an orderly halt and the next action was the tester yanking the hand brake on in such an exaggerated way that I was expecting his hand to hit the roof. This was followed by words that appeared to be spat out and a lot of head wagging.
She was not very cheerful about the process. I can but guess a fail!.
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I once sat in a test centre waiting room allowing enough time for my pupil to get settled in the car before seeing her get away and then retiring to the local café for a gossip with the other instructors. As we were about to leave the examiner came back with a big grin on his face and handed me the keys, telling me that the young lady in question had had handed them to him, burst into tears, run across the road and jumped on board a bus which had pulled up at the stop nearby.
The pressure had obviously taken it's toll, fortunately I always made a point of taking the cash as soon as I met the pupil so was spared the embarrassment of having to call round for it. She was a decent driver too, don't know if she ever had another go.
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Apparently only 1 in 4 tests will have an emergency stop included.
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>> Apparently only 1 in 4 tests will have an emergency stop included.
>>
It's been one in three for years. About time it was scrapped, it is a waste of time (And tyres)and it bears no resemblance to what someone would do in a real emergency.
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Is that why drivers now seem to think 'emergency stop' means 'stop dead when you see an emergency vehicle'?
(Right on cue, an ambulance crossed the bridge outside my window and had to slow to pick its way through the slalom of stationary vehicles.)
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This shi-ite is getting more prevalent, isn't it? Happened to me yesterday on the IDR - car stopped dead in front of me with masses of open road in front, due to an approaching ambulance behind. Another one stopped on the inside lane too. Ambulance had to slow right down and squeeze between them. What is going through their tiny brains?
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>> yesterday on the IDR
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IDR? Indonesian Rupiah Rate? I Don't Remember?
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Inner Distribution Road
A 1960s scheme to move the traffic jams from one side of Reading to the other.....
.....and, of course, vice versa. ;-)
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By which definition it has evidently worked beautifully.
;-)
Had it been complimented by an ODR, it would have been even better. Although the country walks I enjoy with my doggie from the end of my road (which leads in to unspoiled Oxfordshire countryside) would have been ruined with a noisy uncrossable dual carriageway. And your old local, tyred, would have become a service station I expect.
Still, could have been even worse if they'd built the M4 north of Reading as originally planned. However, I doubt I'd live in this specific place if they had as its peace and seclusion (whilst only a 20 minute stroll to a mainline railway station) was one of the drivers for buying it.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 18 Dec 15 at 13:02
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...I worked on Caversham Road in the 70's, and suffered from its effects from day 1 of my time there. :-(
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Did you know there used to be a car manufacturer based on the Caversham Road? Bucklers.
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Yes, run by a bloke called Derek Buckler, closed when I was a kid so early to middle 60s.
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...from current numbering that would have been directly opposite where I worked - which is a bit of a giveaway (but sadly gone by the time I arrived).
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Fri 18 Dec 15 at 15:41
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>> Had it been complimented by an ODR, it would have been even better.
What - something like "Oh IDR, I think you are doing so well!"
How would that make any difference?
;-)
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This shi-ite is getting more prevalent, isn't it? Happened to me yesterday on the IDR - car stopped dead in front of me with masses of open road in front, due to an approaching ambulance behind. Another one stopped on the inside lane too. Ambulance had to slow right down and squeeze between them. What is going through their tiny brains?
Yes there really needs to be a strong public information campaign about how one reacts to blue lights. 'Facilitating progress' is only two words too.
Perhaps the muppets* tiny minds cannot cope with working out others progress as well as one's own. That being so, it is arguable they should not have a driving licence as controlling the car you are driving is but one small part of driving.
* Apologies to Kermit, Fozzie Bear, Miss Piggy etc.
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Driving isn't actually all that difficult is it? Which is of course the reason why lots of really stupid people have driving licences too. Self fulfilling prophesy.
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>> Driving isn't actually all that difficult is it?
Starting a car and making it move isn't all that difficult. The difficult bits are staying out of the way and not endangering other road users. Both those things demand a constant exercise of intellect. Quite a few car users fall very short in this respect. An example is the aggressive prat described in another thread a day or two back.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 18 Dec 15 at 14:47
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Absolutely.
Any fool can drive and a lot of them do.
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Eldest daughter (20) is a reasonable but slapdash driver who has refused my post test coaching... nothing dangerous as such but uncomfortable to ride with and a gate post grazer given half a chance.
Youngest (18) in contrast has sought my coaching since she passed back in May and is already an amazingly able driver. Her ability to place the car at high and low speeds, her awareness of road conditions and developing potential situations, smoothness of controls, understanding of handling dynamics... all top notch.
After a lifetime of enjoying proper driving myself I'm pleased to at least have passed the skills to one of them.
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Driving schools: what do they teach 'em? - commerdriver
