Well today's the day and it didn't take long for me to have "parental worry" queries.
We can't see a foolproof way to turn the phone internet access to be sure it's using our home wi-fi not her data allowance. Also can't see a way that 100% confirms which it is using.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 09:45
|
if you have wifi ON, the iphone will use it in preference to 3G every time To the extent where if you think you have wifi active (the little half curve waves) and its not actually using it (say its picked a BT spot you cant access) the data connection will fail with a "not connected error" Its foolproof.
Also, every UK data plan I know will cough and and refuse to play when you have reached your data limit unless you agree to pay more.
Worry not.
|
|
Not every data plan will stop working when you hit the limit. Virgin Media for example (on a monthly contract) doesn't. To be fair there is quite a large fair use policy before they throttle the connection and eventually start charging.
|
Thanks Zero. When we signed for her contract we were given a choice and opted for data to stop at her limit so you're right we'll not be looking at Daily Mail report of £5k bills.
However my worry was that an intensive weekend of use at the start of the month, if it used data in error, could use all her allowance and have nothing left when out and about.
This is even more important for her as the bus she uses most has wi-fi so she is always on wi-fi hence any misunderstanding in this area would suck away her data within days.
My concern was heightened before I asked here as a quick Google seemed to indicate folks with an IPhone 5 on IOS6 or greater were finding they couldn't stop it jumping to 3G at times and were going way over data. Perhaps they had their setting wrong?
To belt and braces the thing I've just got her to download a DataWiz app that will monitor this for her and alert at 50% of daily allowance.
Anyway time to bake the cake... or perhaps cycle down to the local cupcake maker.
|
|
Without sounding rude, as you've put a stop on the data, can't you tell her then let figure it out and manage it herself?
|
Can you not just turn off 3G data? On my Android devices it is very easy to simple turn off internet data, I have an unlimited with no cap dataplan (providing I don't use tethering) but I still like to switch it off to save battery power and turn it on when I need it.
|
>> Without sounding rude, as you've put a stop on the data, can't you tell her
>> then let figure it out and manage it herself?
Yes exactly, it's not as tho the phone stops working or blocks data on wifi, all she will loose is the ability to Facebook and tweet while on the bus.
It's a valuable budgeting lesson
|
|
Am I right in thinking you can't restrict her to wifi only, which would allow you to just turn off Settings/General/Mobile Data?
|
She can sit all day on her phone and tweet / facebook to her hearts content and she will not go over her limit.
Only if she starts watching youtube clips, other video clips and sending lots of data (eg uploading video and photos to Facebook) will she run the risk of hitting the data.
In my personal humble opinion of course with no guarantees given.......
|
Perhaps then turn Mobile Data on, but Enable 3G off?
EDIT: ...to limit bandwidth and make watching videos etc. impractical
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 11:39
|
>> EDIT: ...to limit bandwidth and make watching videos etc. impractical
(unless on wifi)
|
|
If it helps I find I used around 100mb a month of data on the 3G and I do check facebook etc a lot when I am out, now I use a lot more but only because I have a rare unlimited plan with no usage policy.
|
>> I have a rare unlimited plan with no usage policy
Most have a fair usage policy - at some point there will be limits. Might be several GB and unlikely to reach it etc. But watch some videos and stream radio etc. and you will hit the limit quite easily.
|
You absolutely can end up using cellular data unknowingly; there are reasons why something might not connect and you might not notice. You just need to keep an eye when doing intensive things like downloads or streaming to check you are on WiFi..
I think the data monitoring tool is a very good idea and encouraging her to check it often until she gets a feel for how much data is used by what and how quickly would be excellent.
|
Thanks all.
For her data to suddenly stop due to wilfully using it all in a day of youtube activity on 3G would be a reasonable cause for a lesson learned attitude. If it is an unexpected operational aspect of the phone that is hard to control then it's a different matter as I'd hate her to be stuck in London needing internet for train/bus info or whatever.
You're right though No FM. The phone has been on wi-fi all the time so far this morning and the DataWiz log (an excellent app) shows 40MB via wi-fi and 60kb by 3G. So it has been doing something itself, albeit small, on 3G despite the presence of wi-fi.... I guess some phone to network admin??
She has also signed up for Apple cloud backup which I guess will prompt the phone to communicate with the cloud from time to time without asking first??
>>>IIRC, you can't turn off 3G in the settings on an iPhone5.
That seems to be what we've discovered.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 13:03
|
It will default to 3G if there is no wifi signal, if there is one it will always try and connect to Wifi and tell you so, if it can't.
There are always data apps ready to chew up your 3G when outside wifi range
L
|
>>>It will default to 3G if there is no wifi signal
So it seems. There is one of our bedrooms far side of house from the BT hub where her Iphone drops wi-fi and the 3G symbol comes on. Laptop works OK in there though. She'll have to experiment about the place and be aware of that.
Do any of use this Apple cloud thing?
|
Cloud? Yes wife and I both do, and use it to synch MacBook Air to phone
If you use it for photo stream it can use a fair amount of data
You can set your synch options
|
>> Perhaps then turn Mobile Data on, but Enable 3G off?
IIRC, you can't turn off 3G in the settings on an iPhone5. I think the same applies to the 4S as well.
|
>> >> Perhaps then turn Mobile Data on, but Enable 3G off?
>>
>> IIRC, you can't turn off 3G in the settings on an iPhone5. I think the
>> same applies to the 4S as well.
>>
The iPhone 4S will let you turn off 3G - settings/mobile data/enable 3G. Not sure about the 5 though. I tend to turn off data roaming when travelling abroad though as both the phone and the iPad can chew through a surprising amount of data at great expense if you're not careful!!
|
|
On my '5, under Settings/General/Mobile Data, I've got 'Mobile Data' (on/off) and 'Enable 3G' (on/off).
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 13:29
|
This article seems to cover the "can't stop it using 3G" issue with the IPhone 5... www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/17/iphone-5-iphone
Just this moment daughter is sitting by me doing stuff on the IPhone in a strong wi-fi signal and at random it is going onto 3G. In a matter of minutes it has used 13% of her daily data allowance.
I feel a return to the shop and swap for a pet gerbil may happen soon.
|
|
Does Datawiz tell you which app used the data? Because some of the apps will and that's probably the info you need.
|
|
Apologies if you've answered this already, but can she just use wifi?
|
>>>On my '5, under Settings/General/Mobile Data, I've got 'Mobile Data' (on/off) and 'Enable 3G' (on/off).
Ahh Focusless that's a help... she hadn't found that and many many complaining on forums hadn't either.
She has now turned off 3G in that menu and will monitor the thing for the rest of the day to make sure it can't turn itself on.
I'll phone the pet shop and cancel the gerbil.
BTW there seem to be two ways to turn off data. The turn off 3G and also above it an option to turn of cellular data... I wonder what the difference is?
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 13:42
|
|
I've assumed that mobile data off implies no 3G (although it's not 'greyed out'); it's only when mobile data is on that 3G on/off comes into play.
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 13:43
|
>>>This may make things clearer....
Ahh that's really good thanks.... even an old duffer can understand that.
|
>>>Apologies if you've answered this already, but can she just use wifi?
Yes with the 3G turned off it is working fine on wi-fi only.... but of course it could be sneakily saving a load of communication via 3G for immediately when it's turned back on!
Appreciate all the input that's drilled down to this solution as she was getting stressed every time the 3G symbol flicked on and it was taking a bit of an edge off the thing.
Household more chilled now... time for more cake.
|
>> Yes with the 3G turned off it is working fine on wi-fi only.... but of
>> course it could be sneakily saving a load of communication via 3G for immediately when
>> it's turned back on!
I hardly every turn mobile data on - only use wifi, no problems. On the odd occasion I have turned it on (with 3G on), I haven't noticed anything abnormal.
My noddy Android HTC is better in this respect - I've downloaded (free) 'toggle' apps so you can turn wifi and/or mobile data on/off just by tapping icons on the home screen. With both off, the battery life is great :)
|
>>>My noddy Android HTC is better in this respect - I've downloaded (free) 'toggle' apps so you can turn wifi and/or mobile data on/off just by tapping icons on the home screen. With both off, the battery life is great :)
Yes my cheap Samsung Galaxy whatever for old Dad's has a similar function.
In truth we were misled from the start this morning before posting here as much of the chatter found by Google seemed to say there was no way to turn off 3G on an IPhone 5.
She is a very disciplined girl who's careful with money/things so she'll have no trouble remembering to turn off 3G as and when prudent.
|
|
Not wishing to labour the point here Fen but by '3G' do you mean the iPhone Mobile Data? Can she not just keep Mobile Data enabled, but 3G off, hence effectively limiting the amount she can download (but should be fine for Facebook etc.)?
|
No problem... labour away so we get it right. I'm someone who only learns the bits he needs to about devices (i.e. about 5% of their facilities) but what I learn I want to understand correctly.
Yes looking at the pictorial link from No FM I can see we can enable "Cellular Data" (that's what is on hers in place of "Mobile Data" on the linked example... perhaps as she's done the very latest software update they happen to have renamed it... the expanded description on the phone screen of what it does is identical)
Then we have set "Enable 3G" to Off.
Is there a max speed for 2G?
|
Bit of egg-sucking tuition follows;
If you turn on Mobile data then it will consume her daily/monthly allowance.
If you turn on 3G, it will work at faster speeds, make using it more attractive, make video stream practical and consequently use the allowance faster. [it will also considerably shorten battery life].
If you do not turn on 3G, it will use 2G. It will *STILL* consume her data allowance. However, since it is sooo much slower it is much less attractive to use, video streaming is not really practical and thus the allowance will get used more slowly.
If you keep mobile data switched off it can do neither.
However, switching it off makes having it pointless.
I suggest using an App which will tell you *which* applications are using the data. We can then address them one by one until she can safely leave 3G on without worrying.
|
p.s.
3G - Minimum 0.2 Mb. Average 2Mb - 4Mb
2G - Maximum 0.15 Mb Average - Crap.
(of course 3G is capable of much faster, that's just the minimum).
|
>> 3G - Minimum 0.2 Mb. Average 2Mb - 4Mb
Not disputing your figures but curious - I know the smallest transport block size for 3G is 120 bits, every 2ms, = 500 * 120 = 60kbps. But that's for a single user and includes overheads - it will be less if that's being shared between multiple users.
(That's from my knowledge of femtocell technology - I do the HSDPA stuff - and I don't know to what extent that differs for full size basestations.)
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 14:43
|
ooo, bit technical for me, but...
I think the minimum speed of 0.2Mbps was established by the ITU when they created the 3G standard and so is not a function of technical requirements so much as the standard.
I am quite prepared to be corrected, its been a while.
|
|
No, fair enough - I think it's just different definitions of 'minimum' :)
|
Why not, depending on contract, switch to GiffGaff (owned by O2, but vastly cheaper charges via its Goodybags)?
You can port your mobile number (explained on GG's website, giffgaff.com ) and this link explains how to use 3G:
community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Support/Iphone-5-3g-not-working/td-p/8481136
I use the £10 Goodybag, which offers 500 minutes, unlimited texts and 1GB of data per month; for an extra £2 it's unlimited data. Used to be unlimited data on the £10 package, but too many abused it...:-(
Goodybags details at:
giffgaff.com/index/offer
Probably cheapest tariffs around (it's a PAYG service).
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 15:39
|
>> There is one of our bedrooms far side of house from the BT hub where her Iphone drops wi-fi
Consider getting a Wifi Extender - about £25. Plug it in and setup to extend the existing network. It takes on the same SSID as your existing WiFi network. Can even get them with a built in Ethernet port. I've got one in the lounge to extend Wifi signal a bit and also plug the Sky box into for on demand access, remote control of the box via Sky+ app etc.
>> Yes with the 3G turned off it is working fine on wi-fi only
I see the thread eventually cottoned on to the fact that turning 3G off doesn't turn of data and the phone will be forced to use the slower 2G (GSM/GPRS/EDGE) network. Can be useful when your phone is connecting to a weak 3G signal and you'd prefer a slower but more reliable (and power efficient) connection to 2G.
|
No-one is addressing the point that the iphone is not hooking up to a good wireless signal, you are all bolting stable doors after the horse has goner. Question 1/ is Why is it not using the strong wireless signal, question 2 is what app has she loaded that is using so much data.
|
|
I was wondering why it's switching to 3G and also what app is using all the data. See my example for iPlayer radio for data use.
|
As an experiment, I thought I'd try measuring how much data using iPlayer Radio uses on my phone. Measured on Wifi but the app measures mobile data too.
Interesting that on Android the iPlayer app is controlling what you listen to but the actual data/audio streaming comes under Android Streaming Media. After about 35 minutes it's used about 36MB. Seems to use 1MB/minute then.
So I figure if you listened to iPlayer radio for 2 hours per day that's approximately 120MB/day. Listen all day at work for 5 days a week and that would make it about 2.5GB/week!
|
Haven't read all this long thread, but "My Data Monitor" will tell you which apps are using data.
Basically you turn off 3G to conserve battery (lots of other ways to extend battery life too) and turn off mobile data to stop it using your data allowance.
iPhone Secrets is a worthwhile app for discovering things quickly for a new iPhone user, assume it's current. There's a volume 2 as well. 69p probably, but worth a one off investment IMO unless you are the sort of person who can memorise 184 page manuals.
|
>> Why not, depending on contract, switch to GiffGaff (owned by O2, but vastly cheaper charges
>> via its Goodybags)?
>>
>> You can port your mobile number (explained on GG's website, giffgaff.com ) and this link
>> explains how to use 3G:
>>
>> community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Support/Iphone-5-3g-not-working/td-p/8481136
>>
>> I use the £10 Goodybag, which offers 500 minutes, unlimited texts and 1GB of data
>> per month; for an extra £2 it's unlimited data. Used to be unlimited data on
>> the £10 package, but too many abused it...:-(
>>
>> Goodybags details at:
>>
>> giffgaff.com/index/offer
>>
>> Probably cheapest tariffs around (it's a PAYG service).
You cant do that when you have just signed up for a new phone. you have to run the contract down first (or split it if on O2)
|
And just tried 5 minutes of iPlayer (News 24 live) and the BBC Media Streaming app used about 28MB. So over 5MB/minute. Watch over 3G for an hour and that's 300MB/hour.
I think we all know emails, a bit of Twitter, Facebook, web browsing etc. is okay. Streaming media soon eats into your data allowance. Hardly surprising though.
|
>>>No-one is addressing the point that the iphone is not hooking up to a good wireless signal, you are all bolting stable doors after the horse has goner. Question 1/ is Why is it not using the strong wireless signal, question 2 is what app has she loaded that is using so much data.
Fair points. Don't know why it swaps off wireless (when 3g is enabled) when there is a perfectly good signal, I wonder if there are certain phone operations that need/prefer a direct connection so it can talk to the network?
To be fair this morning when she saw it eating that 3G data in minutes she was doing some sort of ITunes load/update/sync thing.
We'll get a better idea of things now she has done all the "housekeeping" associated with setting up the new phone and from now on its routine useage.
Later I may get her to look at an app like My Data Monitor to see which things are using the most.
|
>> Fair points. Don't know why it swaps off wireless (when 3g is enabled) when there
>> is a perfectly good signal, I wonder if there are certain phone operations that need/prefer
>> a direct connection so it can talk to the network?
Nope, nothing needs it to kill wireless to use 3G. Does she have a bumper or case for it BTW?
1/ if she doesn't its going to get dropped and its going to break. Thats a given.
2/ They never really fixed the antenna problem, a case or bumper improves signal, both wireless and phone.
|
Yes she is due to get a case... what's a bumper and is there any case advice re helping signal then?
|
|
A bumper is a cover that goes round the edge (and usually back) of the phone. It serves two purposes, 1/ if it drops on the corner or side it should save the glass 2/ it separates fingers and hands from the antenna in the frame.
|
|
Is the antenna issue signal or health related then?
|
|
It was on the Iphone 4 and 4s, hands and fingers on the phone frame killed both wireless and phone signals reportedly resolved on the 5, but still not brilliant. iPhones have alway been as deaf as posts, Apple have never done wireless well in any form.
|
|
Spot on Z! The one thing that has really naffed me off about my 4S is the terrible signal pick-up, add to that that the T-Mobile service around me has been 'turned down' so I rarely manage to get the luxury of a 3G signal (makes a 'Smartphone' useless'), I'm forever having to enable/disable Flight Mode to force the phone to start looking for a signal.
|
>> You cant do that when you have just signed up for a new phone. you have to run the contract down first (or split it if on O2)>>
Yes, that's why I stated: "...depending on contract.." :-)
My HTC One X notches just over 11Mb download speeds and a Nexus10 13Mb+ using my router's wi-fi signal (desktop and Lenovo laptop average just under 14Mb). Not done a check on the HTC using just the mobile data feature yet.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 24 Jul 13 at 20:03
|
|
You can turn 3G off in the settings? All data for that matter.
|
|
As has been said turning off 3G just reduces the speed at which data is exchanged but doesn't disable it completely, you would have to turn off Cellular Data for that and then it would stop being a phone as it then couldn't receive/make calls.
|
>> ... turn off Cellular Data for
>> that and then it would stop being a phone as it then couldn't receive/make calls.
No - it doesn't need 'data' turned on to make voice calls.
|
|
or to send/receive SMS messages.
|
|
Sorry about that, got my buttons mixed up!
|
>> Sorry about that, got my buttons mixed up!>>
So she told us..:-)
|
IPhone 5 - Help re wi-fi vs data allowance. - Zero
