Nope working class, always have been always will be.
Not to be lumped in with the shirking class though, those who do nothing or play the system by doing the minimal possible to gain as much handout as possible are not and never will be working class as long as they have a certain orifice.
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Nawt - never thought of it - my parents came from working class stocks - my two sisters and I have been in the professions as have most of my cousins one rising to very dizzy heights, my views are left of centre on most things, I own a Ford and like Vauxhalls so I don't know.
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We are a bourgeois, property-owning society. Back in the sixties, when I worked in market research, doing interviews all over London as well as masterminding surveys from the office, it was already commonplace for people who were clearly of working class origin to describe themselves as middle class, in some cases perhaps expressing an aspiration or ideal self rather than giving a cold definition. The growth of home ownership, car ownership etc. since then, notably under Mrs Thatcher, has made that self-definition more accurate in a way.
Of course then as now there were individuals who felt pride in having honest working class roots and standards, neither jumped up nor kowtowing, just unpretentious. Perhaps there were more in those days - times have changed quite a lot - but they still exist as gb assures us.
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I've never thought of my working class roots in any way really - it just sort of happened I suppose........I probably have middle class credentials in a way - I've never worked particularly hard for a living so I guess I can't be working class ! :-)
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I have no class whatsoever.
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What is a "mean average" please?
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I don't feel like I can especially identify with any "class". Nor indeed do I find that regretable. I prefer just to be me really. A bit like that old thing of not wanting to join any club that would accept the likes of me sort of thing.
Oh the meaning of "mean average" ? A Scotsman with a couple of O levels I guess.
:-)
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Left of centre me,always have been.Working class if class exist.
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It's all horlicks anyway. At the moment for example, I have a reasonably well paid job, a reasonably nice house, a reasonably nice car, some savings etc etc. Some would say the trappings of "middle class" or the lower reaches of it anyway. But if I had no income for a year I'd have no savings, no job, no house, no car etc etc. All the attributes of "underclass". If I won squillions of pounds on the lottery, I could buy a castle, a yacht even if I felt so inclined and might be able to pass, for a while anyway as "upper class" until I was found out.
But, I'd still be the same person in any of those events. Just me in a different state of tune so to speak and none of them feels much like a definition I could ever take very seriously.
To me, there have only ever been two classes of humanity worth categorising, the good guys and and the bad guys. Keeps it simple and it's usually easy enough to figure out which are which.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 19:32
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>>
>> To me, there have only ever been two classes of humanity worth categorising, the good
>> guys and and the bad guys.
>>
And the ugly, Humph. Don't forget the ugly.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Sat 29 Jun 13 at 19:35
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there is no thing as 'working class" Unless you are independently wealthy and dont need to work, you are working class.
Money or income (or lack of it) is no indicator of class either. We are those with class, and those without, and haves or have nots. perm any two from 4
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I don't need to work - I want to which makes it slightly different..
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>> I don't need to work - I want to which makes it slightly different..
+1
>>
Ted
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>> What is a "mean average" please?
>>
On this forum?
No - I won't go there!
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To be upper class don't you have to have a hereditary title?
It ain't all about whether you own a Ford or not or what you earn. There are a few titled people who are destitute. And there are a few "working class" who have made enough money to own Ferraris, Rolls Royce etc. Aren't "middle class" the "professions".
I don't really know, but I take comfort from the fact that I look down on you all!!
:-)
Any way, here's my story - what class am I?
My father was a fisherman
My mama was a fisherman's friend
And I was born in the boredom and the chowder
So when I reached my prime
I left my home in the maritimes
Headed down the turnpike for new england, sweet new england
Holes in my confidence
Holes in the knees of my jeans
It's left without a penny in my pocket
Oo-o wee i's about as
Destituted as a kid could be
And I wish I wore a ring
So I could hock it I'd like to hock it
A young girl in a parking lot
Was preaching to a crowd
Singin sacred songs and
Reading from the bible
Well I told her I was lost
And she told me all about the pentecost
And I seen that girl as the road to my survi-ival
Just later on the very same night
When I crept to her tent with a flashlight
And my long years of innocence ended
Well she took me to the woods sayin'
"here comes somethin' and it feels so good!"
And just like a dog I was befriended
I was befriended
Oh, oh, what a night
Oh what a garden of delight
Even now that sweet memory lingers.
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It all comes down to sex..:)
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>> Nope working class, always have been always will be.
Me too.
The old definitions are redundant, they are irrelevant now. Before WW2 the middle class was discernibly different from the working class - the former employed the latter as servants, for a start. They were also much better off, by a multiple of what the hewers of wood and drawers of water were paid.
Now only the common sense definition makes sense. If you have to work for a living, you're working class.
It must be a human trait, this self-classification thing. Tribalism I suppose. Does more harm than good.
Humph's good egg/bad egg approach probably has the most practical application.
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>> >> If you have to work for a
>> living, you're working class.
>>
>
Work for a living, or work for the kind of living you have or aspire to?
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I'm definitely working class. About to walk to the gym and work hard for 90 minutes, then spend time working on getting up a sweat in the sauna. Will buy a pork pie at the local supermarket on my way home, which I shall eat , slathered in brown sauce, with my fingers. Then sand down my side garage door, undercoat it, mow lawn, walk dog, then when it rains later go to my local and sup 4 pints of decent Kirkby Lonsdale ale, with some nuts & scratchings, despite them taking the head off the beer.
Then 9 hours in my lovely, enjoyable £7 per hour job tomorrow, on my feet all day.
Definitely working class. Although I like well spoken totty!!
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Easy: white-collar worker, middle; blue- collar worker, working.
A paradox: my daughter is a middle class lawyer, my son a working class boiler fitter.
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I don't really class myself as anything. I enjoy a couple of days soaking up the atmosphere in Paris as much as I going to a Brits abroad resort in Spain like Salou. My parents are I suppose middle class but come from working class backgrounds.
My parents always encouraged me and my sister to get a decent education but never made us do anything we didn't want to do. My dad and sister both went to grammar schools. I suppose in terms of my values I would be lower middle class or possibly underclass.
In terms of pleasure than I am working class, would much rather drink in a down to earth pub with decent beer than some cocktail bar.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sun 30 Jun 13 at 14:27
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Rats you're in a class of your own - and me too - I hate being classified as this and that by busybodies....! :-)
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Dad was a coal-miner, and I was born and brought up in a council prefab - I was working class. I went through tertiary education and landed a white collar (scientific) job via a few dead-ends - and I developed middle class leanings. Then a couple of months ago, I worked through that social-class questionnaire and was surprised to find that I was 'elite'. I even tried to undersell myself where I thought I'd been generous - but the result wouldn't be budged! Grammar school education, eh?
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Been watching "Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads" Tried to watch it in the past - I now understand it, very relevant and funny now - entrenched working class versus aspiring middle classes. Brilliantly observed.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 30 Jun 13 at 18:57
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"entrenched working class versus aspiring middle classes. Brilliantly observed"
The wife of Rodney Bewes is brilliantly "aspiring middle classes"! Terry? What class is he??? ;-)
Where are you watching it RP? (Not geographically!! DVD?, You tube etc?)
Fancy watching it again myself.
P
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BBC 3 or 4 been on series record - the humour is still there....
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I was brought up most definitely in the working class , had a grammar school education and have worked all my life to get what I would now describe as a middle class lifestyle.....
I could have been Terry Collier .. same north eastern accent and attitudes and could easily have ended up as a waster if I had not passed the 11 plus.......
But then the survey that went the rounds recently put me in the elite category...
Last edited by: helicopter on Mon 1 Jul 13 at 09:34
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>> I could have been Terry Collier .. same north eastern accent and attitudes and could
>> easily have ended up as a waster if I had not passed the 11 plus.......
Ironic the way that the careers of the two young actors who played the leading roles in "The Likely Lads" have worked out!
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I prefer "The Inbetweeners" :-)
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They're all definitely middle class Roger. Thinking about my fellow school chums, lots went into the professions, at least one senior consultant, at least two architects a smattering of seniorish Police Officers, more teachers than you shake a stick at, a couple of business-people and a few that went into the creative arts and achieved some public knowledge, one is a very, very senior RAF Officer and no doubt quite a few manual workers (so to speak) - all from a cross section of backgrounds as varied as the off-spring. The senior RAF chap came from very humble background.
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My forebears on both sides of the family were artisans. My paternal grandfather was a carpenter who became a draughtsman and eventually was chief draughtsman at Woolwich arsenal. He retired in 1936 and I still have his Omega gold watch, suitably inscribed.
My maternal grandfather was a carpenter, too. (whisper it - he was Irish from the Republic). I never knew him.
He eventually opened a second hand shop in Middlesbrough!
My father was a career R.N. type. He joined as an ERA (engine room artificer) at a young age, served all over the world, was at sea for the whole of the war and survived to retire - very reluctantly - as a Lieutenant (E). Up through the hawse-pipe as they say.
I briefly achieved commissioned rank in the RM and later in the TA, after going to both public & grammar schools.
I've had a varied career in management, sales and self-employment.
I think I'm middle class though at the lower end of the scale.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Jul 13 at 01:09
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"I briefly achieved commissioned rank in the RM and later in the TA, after going to both public & grammar schools."
You sound posh to me, mate.
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Thinking about my fellow school chums, lots went into the professions,
>>
Lots of mine went into the police, lots more went to prison and a few probably did both.
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>> Thinking about my fellow school chums, lots went into the professions,
>> >>
>>
One of my chums went to Aus on his own at about 16 and is still there.
One guy who I still see was a pilot for a few years until sadly he was medicalled out early in his career.
One guy was hanged
No idea whatsoever what happened to all the rest.
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I'm peasant class - daddy was a postman, mummy was a floor scrubber, they never owned property, or even a car.
I left school without any qualifications whatsoever, I've done well though, in spite of my background, gumption see.
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Street wise Perro. Street wise............
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Hmmm
Father, merchant navy captain, his father dentist, his mother dental nurse......
Mother was secretary, now retired from that but working as barmaid to make ends meet after disastrous relationship(s) etc left her financially precarious...Her father architect, her mother housewife.
Me Old Bill for 30 years until retirement at 48.5...now driving a van around.
Was I working class as a PC? and middle class an Inspector? How does it work?
Am I working class when driving the van, middle class when at home as the retired Inspector?
Can I look down on myself when at home and am thinking of work?
Confused of the West Country
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I'm working class, always have been and always will be, I hope.
I don't want to lose the values it taught me along the way.
Hard at the time, but I have no regrets whatsoever.
Pat
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Shabby upper-middle I suppose, if anything.
Class is a 4-dimensional concept - income, capital, education/culture, and the elusive one, family background.
Perm all those and you can explain everything but still understand nothing.
A dimension I think entirely lacking in English class is one present in many other cultures, which is clan. This cuts across all other criteria, and unites people of widely different standing in society. But only within your clan - daggers drawn against any other.
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Are you middle class? - -
