About a week ago I submitted the enclosed to Ford thinking that it would be an easy question to answer - as it was for VW.
"We have a 1.4 Petrol Titanium registration registered in late 2011 and I wish to fit winter tyres (M&S designation) on steel wheels.
What sizes of steel wheels and what winter tyre sizes are approved by Ford for this car?
If I fit steel wheels do I need to use shorter wheel bolts?"
After a week the answer was...
"Thank you for your email and patience whilst I found the information you need.
I have spoken with our Ford product specialist for Fiesta and our tyre specialist. They have advised that you are able to use the same alloy that is currently fitted on the vehicle (16" alloy) and then swap to a winter tyre similar to your original specification which is 195/45. I would therefore recommend speaking with your local Ford dealership regarding availability of winter tyres in specifications similar to a 195/50.
I hope this information has helped. If you do have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me."
So not so easy for Ford to answer and and what do they tell their buyers in Germany - I don't believe they will buy a second set of alloys .. . . . .
I have thrown the answer back to them with queries about the steel wheel they supply as a spare and whether this size would be acceptable (and if not why do they dsupply it as a spare) and also a reference to the table in the manual which lists tyre pressures for all sorts of different tyre sizes which by implication can be fitted to the car.
Now what will their response be to this or will they just go quiet?
When asked the same question VW's response after a day listed alternate tyre sizes and wheel sizes which were approved. One up for VW's customer service.
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Looking at current brochure the 105 Duratec comes in all trims so could be fitted with anything from 14"x5.5" with 175/65 tyres up to 17x7 with 205/40 tyres. Wonder why it is so difficult to say you could fit these . . . . looks like Ford really haven't got a clue.
I think I have an old brochure at home and will have to check what was fitted to the various 1.4l models when we bought hers.
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I know its not the point, but if you go to my tyres they supply steel wheels with tyres fitted, and you can select steels by car make/model/year
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>> I know its not the point, but if you go to my tyres they supply
>> steel wheels with tyres fitted, and you can select steels by car make/model/year
>>
That was the intention but needed to check with Ford so I get the right size, ford being unhelpful, certainly don't intend to buy from them.
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>> >> I know its not the point, but if you go to my tyres they
>> supply
>> >> steel wheels with tyres fitted, and you can select steels by car make/model/year
>> >>
>>
>> That was the intention but needed to check with Ford so I get the right
>> size, ford being unhelpful, certainly don't intend to buy from them.
The Ford ones might have more paint on them. The one I got from mytyres are sound enough but the paint must be about three atoms thick. They don't give you centre caps, nuts and nut covers either.
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>> ............ looks
>> like Ford really haven't got a clue.
You can't blame it on Ford as a whole, merely the particular individuals involved in this instance.
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>> I have spoken with our Ford product specialist for Fiesta and our tyre specialist. They
>> have advised that you are able to use the same alloy that is currently fitted
>> on the vehicle (16" alloy) and then swap to a winter tyre similar to your
>> original specification which is 195/45. I would therefore recommend speaking with your local Ford dealership
>> regarding availability of winter tyres in specifications similar to a 195/50.
>>
>>
Reading that reply they are suggesting you fit the winter tyres to your existing alloy wheels. No new bolts or wheels required just switch the rubber.
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>> Reading that reply they are suggesting you fit the winter tyres to your existing alloy
>> wheels. No new bolts or wheels required just switch the rubber.
>>
Indeed they are but that was not the question they were asked and not the way I wanted to do it. Presume the tyre fitters will want their palms crossed with silver each time the tyres are swopped and I believe that each time there is a slight risk of tyre damage.
Only have one wife so a set of steel wheels and winter tyres looks a good investment to keep her safe, she works part time but with early starts and late finishes and when it snowed this year nothing moved on our road without a push.
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>> Indeed they are but that was not the question they were asked and not the
>> way I wanted to do it. Presume the tyre fitters will want their palms crossed
>> with silver each time the tyres are swopped...
>>
True but four steel wheels are not free and the money from the wheels would pay for a few tyre swaps.
It sounds as though you have made your mind up with regard to what you want however I would throw into the mix have you considered Ganzjahresreifen ? Still come with snow flake for winter use, provide around 90% of the full winter tyre grip and are good for all year. Hankook Optimo 4S are very good, I put them on my wife's previous C4GP which was totally undriveable on Michelin Primacy tyres in winter.
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>> It sounds as though you have made your mind up with regard to what you
>> want however I would throw into the mix have you considered Ganzjahresreifen ? Still come
>> with snow flake for winter use, provide around 90% of the full winter tyre grip
>> and are good for all year. Hankook Optimo 4S are very good, I put them
>> on my wife's previous C4GP which was totally undriveable on Michelin Primacy tyres in winter.
Are you outside UK?
I cannot believe any modern FWD car would be 'undriveable' in even recent English winters (Pennines and Highlands excepted)
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Yes outside the UK, it was sheet ice and -16C. It was very strange, forward motion and the slightest turn of the wheel from straight ahead make absolutely no difference the car just carried straight on. Switched to all-season tyres problem solved.
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 11 Jun 13 at 22:21
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I have a 2010 Fiesta Titanium and fitted a set of Firestone Winterhawk 175/65 R14 last winter. On steel rims and balanced. Set bought from Ford. I have all nuts and plastic nut covers.
They've only covered a couple of thousand miles. Plenty of tread. I'd be willing to sell, if you're interested.
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>>
>> They've only covered a couple of thousand miles. Plenty of tread. I'd be willing to
>> sell, if you're interested.
>>
Maybe - just need to establish what Ford approve so I (She) doesn't invalidate insurance.
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>> Maybe - just need to establish what Ford approve so I (She) doesn't invalidate insurance.
>>
You'll have to check with the insurance company anyway. Some are fine with winter tyres but that's assuming they're the same size as the summer tyres. If you change the tyre size then you'll need to check.
Key thing (you probably realise this) is to maintain the same circumference - so the tyre size will be dicated by whatever wheel diameter you choose.
As others have suggested, if the car is mainly used for fairly local use then I'd be minded to go for an all-season tyre. In fact my wife's Honda Jazz has has full winter Michelin Alpin A4's on it for the last 2years. I got them more out of interest than anything else and they were fairly cheap in one of Costco's sales - they look 'normal' and are wearing no faster than the tyres the car came with from new.
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>> Key thing (you probably realise this) is to maintain the same circumference ...........
It's the dynamic rolling radius (not the circumference) which is relevant. This will give you the dimensions you require. tinyurl.com/69pkmk
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>> >> Key thing (you probably realise this) is to maintain the same circumference ...........
>>
>> It's the dynamic rolling radius (not the circumference) which is relevant. This will give you
>> the dimensions you require. tinyurl.com/69pkmk
>>
I was going to write rolling radius, but I always think the term "rolling radius" doesn't make a lot of sense, and circumference is more logical!
Anyway, it's the same thing, surely? One leads to the other. The circumference is even the top featured metric on the site you linked to.
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>> >> >> Key thing (you probably realise this) is to maintain the same circumference ...........
>> >>
>> >> It's the dynamic rolling radius (not the circumference) which is relevant. This will give
>> you
>> >> the dimensions you require. tinyurl.com/69pkmk
>> >>
>>
>> I was going to write rolling radius, but I always think the term "rolling radius"
>> doesn't make a lot of sense, and circumference is more logical!
>>
>> Anyway, it's the same thing, surely? One leads to the other.
When it's fitted, a tyre isn't circular. The relevant dimension (dynamic rolling radius) is from the centre of the wheel to the point of contact of the tyre on the road, and you can't calculate the circumference just from knowing this dimension.
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It's actually a bit more complicated than that.
There isn't a dimension on the tyre, or on the assembled wheel tyre hub that you can measure which directly tells you the relationship between distance travelled and the number of wheel rotations.
The number used is called the rolling radius, and it is found by testing a tyre by rolling it, rather than by any direct measurement.
Most tyre bible type web sites calculate the unloaded tyre's radius. As a very broad rule of thumb, a tyre's rolling radius is 96, perhaps 97% of this radius.
As a starting point for design / set up purposes most tyres will use about 20% of their unloaded sidewall height in static deflection.
The height of the hub above the gound is close, but, it isn't actually equal to the rolling radius - becuase of the inherent slip / squirm which happens during the deformation of the tread during the period when the tread contacts the road.
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And tyre pressure affects it as well.
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>> It's actually a bit more complicated than that.
>> The height of the hub above the gound is close, but, it isn't actually equal
>> to the rolling radius - becuase of the inherent slip / squirm which happens during
>> the deformation of the tread during the period when the tread contacts the road.
I was talking about the dynamic rolling radius.
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I've got alloys on mine and checked with insurance company before fitting. Did not effect insurance. Wheel nuts are standard for Ford hubs.
Last edited by: Mr. Ecs on Tue 11 Jun 13 at 23:10
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What wheel bolts should be used on the steel spare? Is it a spacesaver, or does it have a different seat profile to 'standard' steels?
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>> What wheel bolts should be used on the steel spare? Is it a spacesaver, or
>> does it have a different seat profile to 'standard' steels?
>>
I realized that this afternoon, the spare is steel (real tyre just a different size) and uses the same bolts as the alloys
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You go on the Continent. In some countries winter tyres are mandatory. GB insurance is valid in EU without having to notify insurance. Surely it's all factored in?
Anyway what are we doing talking about winter tyres in the middle of summer? Someone will mention the C word next. :)
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>> So not so easy for Ford to answer and and what do they tell their
>> buyers in Germany - I don't believe they will buy a second set of alloys
>> .. . . . .
>>
Actually that is what they mostly do - a cheap set of alloys. Much easier to swap them twice. Year.
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I was surprised how many exec types BMWs, Audis, Mercs had steelies fitted with no plastic wheel trims when we drove through Germany to Austria. Sort of "stealth" look. I shall probably end up buying a set of 17" steel wheels and winter tyres from mytyres when the current 18" tyres wear out. I"ll get some of the cost of the wheels back in lower priced tyres for the smaller diameter plus no fitting and balancing twice a year which is £60 a time done by a local firm who take a lot of care. I've been trying for ages to find a cheap'ish set of used 18" OEM alloys for my Santa Fe but had no luck.
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The thread was really aimed at Ford's inability to answer a simple question rather than the technical side.
We are in the UK but the experience when it snowed here (Staffordshire, Cannock Chase so higher than most) was that nothing got off our estate (even front wheel drive). We are on a slope (sideways past the house) and once stopped you didn't get started without a push. I have never been defeated before but the Passat is useless on snow. She works odd hours and I can't guarantee that I will be able to clear the road and the drive before she leaves for work at 06:15 (still in bed) or 15:00 (at work). Her route to work is 90% rural A/B single carriageway roads.
All season tyres on the current alloys - I would prefer her not to be on winter tyres all year round, after all we already have a set of summer tyres and may as well get some miles out of them. The spend on winter tyres probably means we never replace the summer tyres before changing the car. Moving to steel wheels allows narrower tyres which is one of the problems with modern cars on snow (the passat has 7 1/2" rims, the Sierra we had 15 years ago had tyres about 60% of the width and was fine on snow (even with rear drive))
Don't care about wheel trims or nut covers but could easily get some plastic trims to fit the wheels we end up with.
Second set also means I can swop them quickly at home with no hassle.
Am aware of the need to maintain the rolling radius and the intention is to pick a wheel size which gives the best choice of winter tyres - there are not many at 50 profile or less.
Snowsocks or chains are out as she has to get out and fit them which means knowing when to fit/remove, how to fit etc, and more importantly putting herself in a risky position while fitting them. After all the reason for doing it is her safety.
Planning early - yes, its the best way to plan and allows for the idiots at Ford who don't answer the questions they are asked. Probalby means it won't snow at all next year.
Last edited by: IJWS14 on Wed 12 Jun 13 at 08:00
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>> The thread was really aimed at Ford's inability to answer a simple question rather than
>> the technical side.
You can't aim it at Ford as a whole, merely the particular individuals involved in this instance.
>> Planning early - yes, its the best way to plan and allows for the idiots
>> at Ford who don't answer the questions they are asked.
If you weren't satisfied with the reply, why didn't you let them know so that he/she could clarify/justify their reply. Was your original query completely clear and unambiguous?
As for calling them idiots, I wonder what your employer's clients/customers think/thought of you!
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Was your original query completely clear and unambiguous?
>>
What do you think L'es? The OP included his message to Ford at the beginning of this thread.
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>> Was your original query completely clear and unambiguous?
>> >>
>>
>> What do you think L'es? The OP included his message to Ford at the beginning
>> of this thread.
>>
Well, for a start it said "registration registered". What does that mean?
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>> As for calling them idiots, I wonder what your employer's clients/customers think/thought of you!
>>
I believe they regard me as an awkward b......d but then being a commercial manager that is what I am paid to be, the account manager is paid to be mr nice guy!
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>> We are on a slope (sideways past the house) and once stopped you didn't get
>> started without a push.
Up hill, or down hill slope?
My drive is up hill to the road, and FWD is useless.
Any chance of snow and I park nose down, and reverse out, unexpected snow equals a bus ride.
When I had a RWD however, that drove straight out the drive forwards but wouldn't move backwards.
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>> >> We are on a slope (sideways past the house) and once stopped you didn't
>> get
>> >> started without a push.
>>
>> Up hill, or down hill slope?
>> My drive is up hill to the road, and FWD is useless.
>> Any chance of snow and I park nose down, and reverse out, unexpected snow equals
>> a bus ride.
>>
>> When I had a RWD however, that drove straight out the drive forwards but wouldn't
>> move backwards.
>>
>>
The house is on a loop of road with one exit, the exit is the high point. The drive slopes down from the house, the road slopes down past the house and is slightly steeper than the drive.
If I reverse onto the drive (before it snows) then I could drive off and down the hill and out of the other end of the road but the exit is still at the top of the hill so getting stopped at the other side of the loop means you are stuck. Driving onto the drive (as SWMBO does - a with many of the gentler sex she doesn't like reversing) means stopping on the road and unless going downhill (see above) she would be stuck.
I wnt her to be in the position that when she is going to work she does not need a push to get started when there is no-one else around to push her.
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>>as with many of the gentler sex she doesn't like reversing
S'funny that, my ole woman can't reverse at all at all, we've had reversing sensors in the previous 2 jamjars,
I wood get em fitted to the Sub for 220 sovs, and the sondulics is no problemo,
it's just that I don't want any hairy-assed geezers removing my rear bumper, and drilling holes in it, innit.
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>> ............ similar to your
>> original specification which is 195/45. I would therefore recommend speaking with your local Ford dealership
>> regarding availability of winter tyres in specifications similar to a 195/50.
Why are two different tyre profiles mentioned?
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>> >> ............ similar to your
>> >> original specification which is 195/45. I would therefore recommend speaking with your local Ford
>> dealership
>> >> regarding availability of winter tyres in specifications similar to a 195/50.
>>
>> Why are two different tyre profiles mentioned?
>>
Possibly because Ford don't sell 195/45 winter tyres ? ? ? ?
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>> Possibly because Ford don't sell 195/45 winter tyres ? ? ? ?
>>
Possibly you're right ? ? ? ?
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>> If I fit steel wheels do I need to use shorter wheel bolts?"
Are they bolts or are they nuts? Mr Ecs says that his 2010 Fiesta has nuts.
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>> If I fit steel wheels do I need to use shorter wheel bolts?"
Is your spare wheel steel or an alloy?
Or have you got one of those silly cans of goo and a portable air compressor?
Anyway, if you've not got different bolts for the steel spare wheel, then chances are you won't need diffferent bolts.
IIRC, the Merc A class required different bolts when fitting the spare wheel, which were in the same place as the spare wheel.
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I've checked the current Fiesta brochure, and the Titanium variant is fitted with 16" x 6.5" alloy wheels and 195/50 tyres. None of the variants are fitted with steel wheels of the same size. For a 2011 Fiesta the comparable information will no doubt be in the appropriate brochure. Alternatively, the spares department of a Ford dealer should be able to say which 2011 Fiesta variants were fitted with steel wheels, what sizes they were, and what size tyres were fitted.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Wed 12 Jun 13 at 14:45
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It sounds as though the "Customer services" people did not ask the "Technical helpline" people. Maybe they would not understand a technical answer anyway. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 12 Jun 13 at 18:14
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Ford (Customer Services) wrote to me asking if I would call them as they could not contact me (They have my e-mail address).
Rant them Tusday and they have asked the "Brand" office for an answer . . . I sugggested they should speak to Ford Germany.
Aparantly they have a 48 hour SLA for responses, which just means they have to contact me every 48 hours to let me know what is happening.
Should be calling me today then.
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Why are you wasting their time, and your time over an "issue" that does not exist?
Who the hell puts winter tyres on ruddy fiesta.
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>> Why are you wasting their time, and your time over an "issue" that does not
>> exist?
>>
>> Who the hell puts winter tyres on ruddy fiesta.
>>
Someone who drives it in WINTER - next stupid question?
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So stupid I have managed to drive cars for 40 winters without them.
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>> So stupid I have managed to drive cars for 40 winters without them.
Me too. In my early years I drove on completely bald remould crossply tyres with no problem. Urban roads, at best, received sand thrown by shovel out of a lorry. Rural roads received no treatment at all.
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>> >> So stupid I have managed to drive cars for 40 winters without them.
>>
>> Me too. In my early years I drove on completely bald remould crossply tyres with
>> no problem. Urban roads, at best, received sand thrown by shovel out of a lorry.
>> Rural roads received no treatment at all.
Were you in Lincolnshire then L'es? An absence of hills is a distinct advantage.
The other side of the coin is you could end up in 'e forty foot drain - nasty.
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they drive on frozen drains in the Fens. Why do you think they call all the roads "drifts" or "droves"
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>> they drive on frozen drains in the Fens. Why do you think they call all
>> the roads "drifts" or "droves"
Well it would be a big mistake to salt those I suppose.
Never heard that. There is a "Drift Road" at Winkfield/Windsor. Maybe that wuz a drain.
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>> There is a "Drift Road" at Winkfield/Windsor.
That road has given me many an entertaining story..............
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Plenty of hills in Lincolnshire-that area is called the Wolds as opposed to the Fens.
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>> Who the hell puts winter tyres on ruddy fiesta.
>>
I think the difference is the recent super-mini is running around on bigger wheels and tyres than GTis were using less than 20 years ago. I remember my '89 reg Mk2 Golf GTi was on 185/60 x 14, the replacement '96 reg 306 diesel had the same size wheels and tyres.
I was surprised to see a Fiesta recently on 17" rims with something like 195 or 205 tyres.
Can't really compare that with what now look like bike wheels that were fitted 30 years ago. Small, narrow wheel combination has always worked better on snow and ice.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 21 Jun 13 at 17:30
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>> "We have a 1.4 Petrol Titanium registration registered in late 2011 and I wish to
>> fit winter tyres (M&S designation) on steel wheels.
>>
>> What sizes of steel wheels and what winter tyre sizes are approved by Ford for
>> this car?
I doubt whether Ford will be able to say what they "approve". The wheel size should be as fitted to one of the Fiesta range, and the tyre size should be as appropriate for the wheel size.
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Mitsubishi were able to confirm that the 195/70r16H I substituted for the 225/55r18V on the Outlander were homologated (their word) and that the rim size / offset was ok.
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>> What sizes of steel wheels and what winter tyre sizes are approved by Ford for
>> this car?
I think you put Ford on the spot by using the word "approved", which has legal implications and overtones. I wouldn't expect Ford to "approve" anything other than that which was fitted as standard or was offered as an optional extra.
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In a number of EU countries you can only fit "approved tyres and wheels"ie. the ones in the official documentation.Ford normally show these sizes in the driver's manual.Any other sizes used must be approved by the homologation authorities and entered in the car's logbook or equivalent.You may see other sizes used but your car could be impounded and it would certainly fail their equivalent of our MoT.
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The handbook/a or b post/fuel filler flap usually has the tyre pressures and sizes listed.
Only thing to watch to out for is different brake disc/caliper sizes possibly being used in a range.
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Why haven't you just bought Mr Ecs's wheels? The 175/65R14 are within a gnat's (1mm) the same diameter as the 195/45R16.
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My Octavia vRS is the first FWD car I've had which got stuck in snow - due entirely to the 225/40.18 tyres. I got some 16" steel wheels from the Skoda dealer (to make sure they were approved and didn't foul the brakes) - £57 each, and 4 Kleber Quadraxer 205/55/16 all-season tyres - £75 each. The steel wheels soon started paying for themselves, as tyre fitters will change whole wheels FOC but charge £20 each for changing a tyre on a wheel.
I changed back for the summer of 2012 but this year I thought 'why bother?' The Klebers wear more slowly; ride is better; handling effect negligible; and when I got a puncture with the nail too near the edge for repair, a new Kleber was £75 instead of £175 for an OEM Continental. And they were excellent when it snowed.
Looks - well, you don't buy an Octavia for its looks, and anyway black steel wheels on a white car don't look too bad. So the Klebers are on all year, with the alloys and rubber-band tyres safely in the garage for whenever I sell the Octavia.
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The wee card on the door pillar that advises tyre pressures should also advise on acceptable tyre sizes for that particular car.
Suzuki Swift - 195/45 R17 or 195/50 R16(winter)
Honda FRV - 205/55 R16 or 195/65 R15
Forester Turbo - 215/60 R16(summer or winter) or 205/70 R15(winter only)
Can't see any issue legally fitting what is on the cards.
ps fitted 205/55 R16 Michelin Alpins to the FRV last autumn and have left them on since. Compared with the Michelin Energy that were on before they appear to be wearing no quicker, were much better in snow and cold/wet weather, and much the same in the dry. I reckon the Alpins are a little worse in the wet when it's hot. As for mpg I haven't noticed any difference at 32-34mpg all year round.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 20 Jun 13 at 20:40
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Ford Fiesta - Winter Tyres and Ford's inability to advise. - IJWS14
