I see that the Italians are planning a retrial.
Yeah...good luck extraditing a US citizen...
She might have gone of her own accord, but I understand that she is too busy counting the royalties from her book and TV appearances.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 26 Mar 13 at 11:22
|
|
I think Amanda got away with it,to late now.
|
>> She might have gone of her own accord, but I understand that she is too
>> busy counting the royalties from her book and TV appearances.
Yes one of the reasons the family of Meredith Kercher have been able to pursue this case further, the lure of filthy lucre.
Italian Justice tho is clearly not fit for modern society, sometimes you think Italian Hierarchy hasn't moved out of the Medici or Borgia era.
|
A case I find interesting on many levels.
From what I've read there was no real motive, no real evidence and dubious interview methods used to get an initial damming statement from her which she immediately qualified.
So she (and the boyfriend you'd assume) are innocent??
I certainly don't think either of them would have ever been charged in the UK or USA.
But she is so calm and plausible if you've watched the initial trial footage there's just that nagging doubt...
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 26 Mar 13 at 15:03
|
|
One person already convicted and serving time. There do not have to have accomplices
|
|
No double jeopardy in Italy, then?
|
Nor in most of the world and the UK. You'l be pleased to know the European Convention on Human Rights has ratified it
shall not prevent the reopening of the case in accordance with the law and penal procedure of the State concerned, if there is evidence of new or newly discovered facts, or if there has been a fundamental defect in the previous proceedings, which could affect the outcome of the case.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 26 Mar 13 at 15:24
|
|
Thanks for the clarification.
|
This is a very odd case. Miss Knox is not a sympathetic figure and has seemed very psychopathic in her behaviour, but it's hard to tell without seeing the person and knowing stuff. Are both the Africans fall guys?
The press at the time was full of hints about a 'sex game' that went tragically wrong. The mind boggles rather. 'Sex games' are for children surely? In adults they tend to be perverse.
But poor Miss Kercher was murdered and the trial didn't seem to come up with any kind of convincing account of what happened. They could surely hold a retrial in the absence of ginger Knox?
I don't get Zero's point above. Does he (or do you) mean that the Kercher family are trying to get money, or that Knox's money-spinning account lays her open to further investigation?
|
>> But poor Miss Kercher was murdered and the trial didn't seem to come up with
>> any kind of convincing account of what happened. They could surely hold a retrial in
>> the absence of ginger Knox?
Trials in absentia tend to be one sided. That's why we don't have them in our system. Maybe different in countries where the trial is inquisitorial but I'd not have confidence in that.
>> I don't get Zero's point above. Does he (or do you) mean that the Kercher
>> family are trying to get money, or that Knox's money-spinning account lays her open to
>> further investigation?
The Kercher family have lost their daughter without conclusion or closure. They remain convinced that Knox/Sollecito, even if not guilty, are not telling all they know. In meantime Foxy is doing fine on book royalties and as a celeb on the talkshow circuit.
|
>> Trials in absentia tend to be one sided.
Well, yes, because the failure of the accused to show up may well have the most obvious of reasons. If Miss Knox is innocent and can prove it she will return to Italy to clear her name. If on the other hand her very rich family managed to subvert the first trial to let her escape - no doubt difficult as well as expensive - then a one-sided retrial will reach, er, a just verdict surely?
I can just about see why the law is so often an ass but mostly it's a closed book to me in all its shady awe and majesty.
|
That AC would require Miss Knox to have faith in Italian justice. Given that country's utter failure to hold Silvio to account (and plenty other examples too I think) I certainly wouldn't want to face trial there.
Being American I doubt she has much faith in any foreign system.
|
>>>. If on the other hand her very rich family managed to subvert the first trial to let her escape
But didn't she "escape" in the end because there was no credible evidence?
|
|
There wasn't a credible account either from her or anyone else. And if people think Italian justice can be subverted, one would have thought that rich Americans were in a pretty good position to do just that.
|
Perhaps Rudy Guede did the murder. But if Miss Knox and Sollecito were present, how come they didn't intervene or see or hear something? And why did Knox falsely accuse another African barman?
No doubt the Perugians are superstitious and misogynistic. Most of the world's population is both. But Knox and Sollecito seem to have behaved like slightly heartless individuals who think they may have something to hide. If they have been misrepresented, they have helped to misrepresent themselves. Or so it seems.
|
>>>Perhaps Rudy Guede did the murder. But if Miss Knox and Sollecito were present, how come they didn't intervene or see or hear something?
But why would they be present?
It seems the police and prosecutors created a scenario for how they thought the murder unfolded at an early stage then all the way through questioning and the initial trial where Knox was found guilty they put all their efforts into trying to make that scenario work.
There wasn't any motive or evidence that placed Knox and boyfriend at the scene during the murder timescale apart from the fact there was every reason for there to be general traces of their presence in the house that Knox shared with the victim.
In the press and trial much was made of the fact Knox had condoms and a vibrator, that she had sex with her boyfriend, was flirty at the bar where she worked and took low grade drugs. This was twisted into a picture of a sexual deviant with murder in mind. Sounds like a fairly average early 20s girl on a gap year to me.
Further character assanation evidence was that she was seen behaving in an odd way after the body was discovered including shopping for sexy underwear. Well perhaps the shock of a murder in her appartment freaked her out and of course she had to shop for various items after the police sealed off the building.... and not many 20yr olds buy granny pants.
As I said at the start there are aspects of Knox that make you wonder what if.... but in terms of evidence I've heard nothing to put her and the boyfriend anywhere near the killing.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 27 Mar 13 at 18:46
|
|
If all the parties were present in a small flat at the time of the murder than Miss Knox looks a bit dodgy. If she wasn't there it's different.
|
No she and her boyfriend said they were at his place a distance away watching films, eating, chatting, having sex, doing drugs etc. There has been no witness, credible forensic or motive to place them at the scene.
It is the prosecution that have produced the unlikely and unproven circumstance that she used her female/sexual power over the boyfriend and Guede to incite them to sexually assult the deceased and then murder her when it all went a bit too far.
To murder someone leaving the body in place and the room splattered with blood would take the cunning of a Russian assassin to leave the flat totally clean of evidence and DNA.
Guede on the other hand left loads of DNA, was known to carry a blade and also carry out small time thieving so the scenario he went with the idea of theft and finding her there then assulted and murdered her is plausible.
|
Well, that makes a lot of difference. There is still the false accusation against the Lumumba person though.
What a weird prosecution. Had me a bit fooled indeed.
|
>>>There is still the false accusation against the Lumumba person though....What a weird prosecution.
In truth that false accusation of her boss was a scenario the police put to her and asked her to imagine events surrounding it as if it happened. She had been in text communication with her boss and signed off with "see you later" in the modern form meaning goodbye... the police insisted it proved she was meeting her boss later.
Her interrogation was shocking. The final session was conducted from 10.30pm to 6am by a team of 12 officers, she was not allowed a lawyer or rest. The officers took turns in pairs to interrogate her for an hour at a time and then a fresh pair would take over with her becoming ever more tired and confused. They put many scenarios to her and asked that she imagine what might have happend surrounding these scenarios if they were true. They also told her they had firm evidence that placed her at the scene and that her boyfriend had implicated her (neither true). Further they threatened her with spending 30yrs in prison and never seeing her family again if she did not cooperate.
She constantly told them she did not kill Meredith but that if the things they were telling her were true she must be suffering confusion in not remembering being there.
Finally after almost 8hrs of this treatment she was coerced into signing a statement which set out one of the scenarios put to her by the police that implicated her to a degree. In the same way she implicated her boss Lumumba by "going along" with the police scenario he had murdered the girl.
Bear in mind during the interrogation she had a working understanding of the language but was not fully fluent.
Within hours of this "confession" Knox wrote a note for the police that stated...
In regards to this 'confession' that I made last night, I want to make clear that I'm very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion. Not only was I told I would be arrested and put in jail for 30 years, but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly.
It is well known that under such interrogation methods the need to stop the horror of interrogation becomes urgent and a suspect who is innocent may give the police a little of what they seek, even if untrue, just to get it all to stop.
|
Sounds as if you were there Fenlander. I don't doubt you of course, but I can't help wondering what is the source of all the things you say.
I know that even the sight of a group of plainclothes Carabinieri can make one's blood run cold, but would Italian police really employ such violence on a young female US citizen with rich parents? It's not inconceivable of course but sounds exaggerated to me.
|
I've had a modest interest in psychology and human behaviour since my mid 20s. The odd event or case such as this sparks my interest. I have read the full 400 page translation of the original trial proceedings hence hopefully being able to present facts not "PR" for either side.
The public prosecutor (Giuliano Mignini) in this case has been known to be obsessed with the surreal and got things very wrong in the past.
He was the prosecutor involved with the Monster of Florence murders some 30+yrs ago when he believed someone, who was later accepted as a suicide case, was part of these mass murders.
Mignini became obsessed with the view there was some sort of cult involved in these murders and ordered the "suicide" body be exhumed for further tests. When the body did not show the results he expected he claimed it had been swapped by those involved with the group/cult. He fantasised of all those who could have effected this swap and ordered that 20 people were charged with concealment of a murder. All these charges were later dismissed. Medical tests confirmed it was in fact the correct body.
He sounds one strange guy.
|
Amanda Knox - Dutchie
