Non-motoring > Saving - or rather failure to save Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Falkirk Bairn Replies: 60

 Saving - or rather failure to save - Manatee
You can't tell what an investment in the FTSE would be worth over time just by looking at the index. That ignores dividends which you don't get on gold.

Shares aren't essentially a Ponzi scheme or bubble. You can put a value on cash flows.

Share prices move en masse with the weight of money going in and out of the market. The fundamental value doesn't change because of that (though it might for other reasons). The Invesco Perpetual Income Fund accumulation unit price (which does include reinvested dividends) has increased by 75% since 2009, but it's still yielding around 3.5% - the price will go down if the market drops but the yield will increase unless dividends drop. If that happens now I'll sit tight. I don't need the money for 5-15 years and the dividends are buying more shares when the prices are low.

That's just an example - the results for a FTSE index accumulation fund over the same period are much the same though the volatility (what you might call the Ponzi effect) is higher.

Zero says timing is the key. It would be if you were psychic. In general you would likely do better long term to stay invested, given you will rarely sell at the highest price and buy at the lowest, the gains and dividends you miss are likely to make you worse off. In general of course.

see Smarter Investing by Tim Hale for the explanation and numerical evidence.

Gold might give you more of a hedge against another crash in share prices but if you'd been holding it since Christmas instead of shares you'd already be about 20% down.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 26 Feb 13 at 23:59
 Messages Author Date
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Falkirk Bairn 25 Feb 13 11:23
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Mike Hannon 25 Feb 13 11:28
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Fenlander 25 Feb 13 12:29
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Manatee 25 Feb 13 12:56
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Ambo 25 Feb 13 13:45
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Manatee 25 Feb 13 14:38
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Dave 25 Feb 13 17:07
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Stuartli 25 Feb 13 17:42
 Saving - or rather failure to sav..  henry k 25 Feb 13 17:49
 Saving - or rather failure to sav..  Stuu 25 Feb 13 17:53
 Saving - or rather failure to sa..  Mapmaker 26 Feb 13 10:18
 Saving - or rather failure to ..  Manatee 26 Feb 13 10:47
 Saving - or rather failure to..  Zero 26 Feb 13 10:52
 Saving - or rather failure to ..  Fenlander 26 Feb 13 10:51
 Saving - or rather failure to..  henry k 26 Feb 13 11:03
 Saving - or rather failure to ..  Mike Hannon 26 Feb 13 11:05
 Saving - or rather failure to..  Manatee 26 Feb 13 12:14
 Saving - or rather failure to..  Dutchie 26 Feb 13 13:14
 Saving - or rather failure to sav..  Manatee 25 Feb 13 18:14
 Saving - or rather failure to sa..  Stuartli 26 Feb 13 00:26
 Saving - or rather failure to ..  Fursty Ferret 26 Feb 13 09:08
 Saving - or rather failure to..  - 26 Feb 13 09:24
 Saving - or rather failure t..  Cliff Pope 26 Feb 13 11:06
 Saving - or rather failure ..  Ambo 26 Feb 13 12:21
 Saving - or rather failure to..  Manatee 26 Feb 13 12:24
 Saving - or rather failure t..  legacylad 26 Feb 13 13:10
 Saving - or rather failure ..  Cliff Pope 26 Feb 13 13:26
  
 Saving - or rather failure to save  - 26 Feb 13 13:56
 Saving - or rather failure to save  RattleandSmoke 26 Feb 13 14:56
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Fursty Ferret 26 Feb 13 15:27
 Saving - or rather failure to save  RattleandSmoke 26 Feb 13 16:00
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Manatee 26 Feb 13 16:37
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Zero 26 Feb 13 16:48
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Lygonos 26 Feb 13 20:25
 Saving - or rather failure to save  rtj70 26 Feb 13 21:15
 Saving - or rather failure to sav..  Roger. 26 Feb 13 22:29
 Saving - or rather failure to sa..  Zero 26 Feb 13 22:41
 Saving - or rather failure to ..  Lygonos 26 Feb 13 22:44
 Saving - or rather failure to..  Zero 26 Feb 13 22:48
 Saving - or rather failure t..  Lygonos 26 Feb 13 22:51
 Saving - or rather failure ..  Zero 26 Feb 13 22:57
  
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Lygonos 26 Feb 13 23:04
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Manatee 26 Feb 13 23:57
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Fursty Ferret 26 Feb 13 22:00
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Cliff Pope 27 Feb 13 08:11
 Saving - or rather failure to sav..  Fursty Ferret 27 Feb 13 08:31
 Saving - or rather failure to sa..  Manatee 27 Feb 13 10:14
 Saving - or rather failure to sav..  Duncan 27 Feb 13 08:47
 Saving - or rather failure to sa..  Crankcase 27 Feb 13 09:10
 Saving - or rather failure to sa..  Lygonos 27 Feb 13 09:13
 Saving - or rather failure to sa..  Stuu 27 Feb 13 09:41
 Saving - or rather failure to ..  Cliff Pope 27 Feb 13 10:03
 Saving - or rather failure to..  Westpig 27 Feb 13 11:36
 Saving - or rather failure t..  Manatee 27 Feb 13 14:02
 Saving - or rather failure ..  legacylad 27 Feb 13 23:03
  
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Crankcase 28 Feb 13 08:31
 Saving - or rather failure to save  smokie 28 Feb 13 09:46
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Manatee 28 Feb 13 10:26
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Manatee 28 Feb 13 10:30
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Haywain 28 Feb 13 18:31
 Saving - or rather failure to save  Dutchie 28 Feb 13 21:29
  
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