Non-motoring > Could you spot a fake plug? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: RattleandSmoke Replies: 21
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 Thu 21 Feb 13 13:51 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - RattleandSmoke
Come across quite a few of these in my job. Found some more while doing a bit of a clear out in my office.

www.bs1363.org.uk/

www.theiet.org/forums/forum/m...threadid=44850

If the earth has the insulalution on it then its fake. Also look out for a white coloured fuse, the genuine ones tend to have a slightly brown colour on them, but the Bussman ones tend to be pure white.

If you ever buy anything like a charger always check the plug. So many illegal ones and seen many fake cables too. One of them even set on fire (think I mentioned it before on here).


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 Thu 21 Feb 13 13:56 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - VxFan
>> www.theiet.org/forums/forum/m...threadid=44850

"Page not found"
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 Thu 21 Feb 13 14:05 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - RattleandSmoke
I copied it from a discussion I was having on another site. I will get the correct link.

Here

www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=44850

For what it is worth, the problem doesn't seem to be with goods you buy fromt he well known high streets stores, its the smaller traders on Ebay and Amazon. Both have been warned before about this, but traders continue to sell them. Despite Amazon apparantly having been warned about it.

The guy behnd the 1363 is an electrician who posts a lot on the DIYNot forum.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 21 Feb 13 at 14:06
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 Thu 21 Feb 13 14:54 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Mapmaker
Are they really "counterfeit" plugs? The "only" thing wrong with them is that they haven't been built in accordance with the relevant BS.

They could have been. So the same plug, from the same factory, but with a smidgen of redesign would comply with the BS.

They're surely "just" non-compliant. Without doubt dangerous. But counterfeit?

If they said MK on them, having not been sold by MK, then they'd be counterfeit. But what they say is BS1363 and that's "merely" untrue.
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 Thu 21 Feb 13 15:27 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - RattleandSmoke
They are fake because they say BS1363 on them, and often have fake kitmark symbols on them when actually they DO NOT comply with them. Because of the insulation on the earth it means the earth pin does nothing. Also a lot of these plugs are found to have fake fuses, which do nothing.
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 Thu 21 Feb 13 17:34 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Mapmaker
>>often have fake kitmark symbols

No, they have real kitemark symbols. They just don't do the job they're supposed to do.

>>They are fake because they say BS1363 on them,

But MK plugs say BS1363 on them. The corollary of your statement is that they are therefore also fake.


They're just badly made. And dangerously so. But it would cost no more for the factory to make them properly than improperly. Counterfeiting suggests that the counterfeiter is taking advantage of his victim; here the plug manufacturer is merely incompetent.
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 Thu 21 Feb 13 15:09 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - TeeCee
As an aside and unrelated to substandard plugs.

Would anyone care to explain why, despite all the scaremongering by the likes of "Plugsafe", over here on the continent we haven't all died in an apocalyptic fire and the newspapers are not chock full of reports of death by electrocution?

Two pin (unearthed) sockets are common. Sockets are not shuttered. Plug conductor pins are unsleeved. Plugs are unfused. Earthed plugs fit unearthed sockets. Mains sockets are in all rooms, including the bathroom.

One of the side effects here is the massive advantage of being able to fit two pin plugs to things that do not require an earth.

I cannot help but think that while there is BS involved, the 1363 bit is optional.....
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 08:35 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Cliff Pope
We used to have similar systems here.
I collect old plugs and sockets, and apart from the still-available (unfused, unsleeved) round 3-pins in a range of sizes, we also used to have unfused 10amp 2-pin plugs, a bit like the present shaver-socket type but with much bigger pins.
All this multiplicity of sizes and number of pins necessitated everyone having dozens of adaptors, for converting almost any combinations of specifications.

The prize specimen in my collection is a large wooden 3-pin plug, unfused, with enormous unsheeved round pins quite a bit bigger than the ordinary 15-amp ones.

People must have been electrocuted in droves in the old days.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 09:20 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Slidingpillar
I wish I'd kept a Walsall gauge plug. Total hoot to put one on somebodies kettle and watch them try to plug it in.

Walsall gauge was technical plug favoured by the BBC, where the design was almost the same as a 13A plyg, but the pins were rotated by 90 degrees.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 09:44 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - RattleandSmoke
I am always fascinated by early electricity in peoples houses. This house was unusual in that it was built with electric lighting. I have found paper and lead wires when doing some renovation work a few yeas ago. Sadly I didn't realise how poisonous that sort of cable was at the time!

I am still amazed when I see some houses which have wiring over 50 years old. I have never seen any none 1363 sockets but I have seen some early MK ones on wooden patresses. still in use.

I am also not sure how long modern PVC cable is supposed to last, but I can't see it lasting for ever. The wiring here is now more than 30 years old, trying to convince the parents to get a check done and get the old Wylex 8 way consumer unit replaced.

I would have thought the earth is no longer up to scratch.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 09:59 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - lancara
Wonder if there are any statistics comparing problems (deaths/injuries/fires,etc.) associated with electrics in UK and Spain? In the latter - no fused plugs, a large number of appliances sold with simple 2-pin plugs rather than earthed 2-pin ones, 240V sockets in bathrooms.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 09:59 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - henry k
>>I am also not sure how long modern PVC cable is supposed to last, but I can't see it lasting for ever.
>> The wiring here is now more than 30 years old,
I have cable more than 50 years old so you have a few more years without worry.

>>...get the old Wylex 8 way consumer unit replaced.
Nowt wrong with the Wylex - Get a RCD added or have you money to burn?

>>Sadly I didn't realise how poisonous that sort of cable was at the time!
Why, were you chewing it? :-)
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 10:31 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Slidingpillar
>>I have cable more than 50 years old so you have a few more years without worry.

The main enemy of PVC plastics is plasticiser erosion. Most of this takes place due to sunlight and as the wires are nicely hidden away, this should not occur.

I reckon in theory, a trailing mains lead would show this sort of problem first and I've not yet seen any I'd say this was the case. I do have the odd appliance with a over stiff mains lead, but the most notable of these, was like it from new.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 10:25 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Fursty Ferret
>> I am always fascinated by early electricity in peoples houses. This house was unusual in
>> that it was built with electric lighting. I have found paper and lead wires when
>> doing some renovation work a few yeas ago. Sadly I didn't realise how poisonous that
>> sort of cable was at the time!
>>

I shouldn't worry too much - you'll have been exposed to much worse living in Manchester.

* Car (and especially diesel bus) exhaust.
* Lead paint
* Various deeply unpleasant volatile plastic compounds
* Asbestos (whether airborne or insulation), it's still drifting around the north. I have a picture of Rochdale under a fresh layer of snow - except it's not snow, it's white asbestos.
* Solder fumes if you can solder. Lead-free is actually worse than the stuff containing lead, just better for the environment.
* Toxic plastics on PCBs.
* Organophosphates in the water.
* Cigarette smoke
* Smoke from coal fires / coal fired power stations
* etc etc.

And ultimately the alcohol you drink is probably worse than all the other things combined. Life's too short etc. :-)

Not especially worried about fake plugs. We have a bigger problem of ignorance in the UK, and far more dangerous IMHO are supermarkets only selling replacement plugs with 13A fuses. You may as well use a nail for all the good it will do you, genuine or not...

I've been using the plug-backwards-in-an-extension-socket technique for years to expose the contacts to quickly test stuff by poking the wires in. ;-)
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 10:30 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - sherlock47
Walsall gauge was technical plug favoured by the BBC, where the design was almost the same as a 13A pug, but the pins were rotated by 90 degrees.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WG13_PICT6943.jpg


Don't similar sockets get installed in some railway rolling stock? and there is a MK variant with a T cross-section 'Earth' pin.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:13A_Plug_T_Shaped_Earth.JPG
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 11:25 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - smokie
Also seen something similar in public places (airport lounges) so they can hoover but we can't charge a phone.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 12:26 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - henry k
Also used in the BBC were D & S plugs
I have also seen 13A plugs with at least one non earth pin at 25 degrees from the norn.
Both were designed to deter the cleaners from unplugging key bits of equipment,

The UK film studios etc and also South Africa still use 15A plugs.
I have both 13A and 15A plugs with transparent bodies so you can check the wiring easily.

In SA they sell extension leads with 15A sockets and also included are euro two pin sockets. I guess it saves importers messing about with snap on adaptors etc.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 18:03 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Mapmaker
How (some) fuses work.

I've been googling this to see whether it is widely known and cannot pick up on it.

If you break open a 13 amp cartridge fuse, it (often? I've only done it once in my life...) consists of a bit of metal wire with a blob of metal in the middle. From googling, it has been suggested that this blob is a blob of solder, and when the fuse goes it is because the solder melts.

But no... I was taught (and they should have known) that it is (e.g.) tin wire with a blob of (e.g.) lead on it.

When the wire warms up, the lead diffuses into the tin. A mixture of metals has a lower melting point than either of the pure metals, so the blob in the middle becomes a mixture of the two metals, with a lower melting point than either of the pure metals, so it melts into two pieces.


This means it's a slower process than it would be if it actually were a blob of lead-tin solder, so this magic allows for momentarily higher currents to flow than would otherwise be the case.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 18:39 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Cliff Pope

>> This means it's a slower process than it would be if it actually were a
>> blob of lead-tin solder, so this magic allows for momentarily higher currents to flow than
>> would otherwise be the case.
>>
>>

So not the same as the simple wire fuse in an old-fashioned fuse box.

That's a fascinating explanation - presumably there are good reasons for allowing this momentarily higher current, such as motors etc starting up?
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 18:57 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Slidingpillar
A blob fuse is what is sometimes termed a slow blow type. But even a simple wire fuse, say a 13A fuse will pass 15A for a short while but not even 13A for all time. Very, very long time though and for most purposes can be regarded as forever.

Had fuse characteristics a long time ago in a lecture but can't now remember the best reference.
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 19:17 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Fursty Ferret
When I was at uni post grads regularly used high current devices in a 4 gang extension lead. On more than one occasion the high current failed to blow the fuse but simply set fire to the socket...
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 Fri 22 Feb 13 22:00 
 Could you spot a fake plug? - Slidingpillar
Suggests the socket or the internal wiring was not up to snuff. Given how cheaply they can be bought, either is a distinct possibility.
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