Some interesting reading - do people feel rich or poor?
Couple of examples:
Lives with her partner, a financial analyst, and her two children from a previous marriage. Household income: £1m a year. She owns a £3m business from which she takes £100,000 a year; he brings home £900,000 a year.
Do you feel rich or poor? "Rich, but it's not enough."
Lives with her partner, a part-time nurse; no dependants. Household income: £20,000 a year (£12,000 from homeopathy, £8,000 from nursing). Her partner exchanged his labour for a reduction on the cost of their home.
Do you feel rich or poor? "Rich because the quality of life is so rich."
Single; one child. Household income: £22,000 a year, including tax credits, housing benefit and child maintenance.
Do you feel rich or poor? "Poor."
www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/sep/14/do-britons-feel-rich-poor
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Rich: Retired, doing what I want, still reasonably well and healthy...
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It's too simplistic and broad-brush. You could sub-divide it into:
Income
Capital
Environment/lifestyle
Pension prospects
with perhaps another category for health/mental wellbeing
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Personally I reckon that being rich means never having to think about money, except for decisions like "Shall I buy a new Aston this year or wait 'til next?".
So I don't feel rich. Then again, I don't feel poor either....
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Like TeeCee, I feel neither rich or poor. If I had to categorise myself, I would say on the poor side of comfortable.
We took the decision to take the financial hit while the kids were small, and for SWMBO to work only part time. This means my salary, although decent by most standards, is pretty much spoken for every month (and we also are no longer eligible for a penny from the state in any way, shape or form). Nevertheless, we are not exactly on the breadline either, hence neither one way or the other.
Once SWMBO goes back full time, things will be a lot more comfortable. And we need to start saving. Hard.
We have a lot of good stuff money can't buy as well, which we both prioritise much more than money.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 20 Feb 13 at 10:14
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Its really just a state of mind. I think how rich or poor you feel depends on what your expectations are.
When the crash happened in 2008 I knew then that I wasnt going to be well off for the foreseeable future, but I found it very easy to accept. We do tend to paint ourselves into a corner over what kind of consumer goods we can afford, when really we prob dont need them but are simply feeding the desire to appear to move up the income scale and become more 'successful' by how much we can waste on shiny things.
Our household income is around £15k now, but we feel we have enough, my wife has a pension, we afford a holiday each year and we can run our cars from it. We have very strict budgets and we have an emergency budget standing by should we need it, but we prefer to think of it as a simple life rather than a poor one.
My wife loves a charity shop bargin, I love turning the screw on the food budget, down to £30 a week now and we both like a freebie. What we do have are great families and we get to spend atleast 3 days a week together as a couple, which to me is worth far more than a few extra quid.
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Compared to a Premier League footballer I'm poor.
Compared to the 50% of the world's population who face a daily struggle to avoid starvation I'm rich beyond imagination.
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So-so just now but very, very poor when I start to calculate care costs for old age.
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By most standards I feel comfortable rather than rich , I have worked forty five years and after a struggle to start with I have reached a stage where I have a very good income and the mortgage is paid off , reasonable health and substantial savings in the bank so I am looking forward to a long retirement with a half decent pension next year......
SWMBO works too but is also retiring so we will hopefully head off into the sunset together....... what will the future hold ? Who knows ?
I am ever mindful that I may live another 20 or 30 years so I am not about to go lashing out on any massive expenditure and will always keep a bit of money by for that rainy day when it arrives....
Last edited by: retpocileh on Wed 20 Feb 13 at 12:15
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>> will always keep a bit of money by for that rainy day when it arrives....
A bit, I presume, being a good few tens of thousands?
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 20 Feb 13 at 18:16
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Correct draiber ...I aim to keep probably somewhere between 100 to 200k aside invested for income (as far as you can do that these days) ...and live on the pension as far as possible .... just in case the need arises to cover care home costs etc... I have a number of friends who have faced the dilemma of Alzheimers ....
.... the aim it is getting the balance correct so as not to leave any money to the tax man
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Comfortable..but have had to wind my neck in from what it was.
However, when we were both earning good money, we also lived in our capital city...:-(....it was dirty, frenetic, had ignorant people about, crime was always there somewhere, and we had no true quality of life (IMO)*. The upside was I enjoyed my job, the pension was a major goal and we could afford the nice things in life inc good holidays.
Now I'm living off a pension and a part time job, (whilst waiting for a new business venture to move from consolidation to income)...and wifey is doing the stay at home mum bit...but..we live on the edge of Dartmoor, have a 2/3rd acre garden, have family/friends all around us, kids in a local, small, friendly village school...and we think life is bliss. Both of us feel extremely privileged.
I've gone from being able to afford new cars/expensive holidays/meals out all the time etc, to having to be a bit more shrewd...however I'm far happier.
So what is 'rich' and what is 'poor'?
(* Now that I look back on things...walking out of London was like having a foot taken off my chest. I know I'll have Lud spitting his creme de menthe all over his once flash white shoes..but that's the way it is..the countryside rules o.k.).
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>> (* Now that I look back on things...walking out of London was like having a
>> foot taken off my chest.
>>
Exactly my own experience. It's very hard to find a part of London that isn't a crime ridden dump.
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>> >> (* Now that I look back on things...walking out of London was like having
>> a foot taken off my chest.
>> >>
>> Exactly my own experience. It's very hard to find a part of London that isn't
>> a crime ridden dump.
>>
It surprised me though. I'd lived there for 30 odd years and loved my house, job, had good friends etc (it took me 20 years to get thre house exactly as I wanted)... and Barnet isn't a bad Borough to live in.
It was a good example of not knowing what I was missing. I'd visit Devon as a tourist (even though it was where I come from) and be glad to get 'home' in London....but...once i'd moved down, I was euphoric...still am.
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>> walking out of London was like having a foot taken off my chest. I know I'll have Lud spitting his creme de menthe all over his once flash white shoes..
I don't complain about having to live in an area of ONB in considerable privacy and comfort. I am used to it having spent much time here over the last 50 years, long before moving here a couple of years ago. I do still miss aspects of London though. But from here the place seems ever more expensive and inconvenient. That would bother me a lot less if I had the sort of money this Lud is reputed to have. I'm not financially rich and never have been, although I nearly was for a couple of brief periods. But my life has been very privileged in an off-centre sort of way, causing Zero to explode with rage and call me a loafer and sponger.
If only... the stuff I have to do to earn money - at an average hourly rate that would offend a recent illegal immigrant - would send most people round the bend in an hour. A genius couldn't earn enough doing that to pay for a tenth of what I get for nothing. Sorry about that, but I think I can bear it...
:o}
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>> I don't complain about having to live in an area of ONB in considerable privacy and comfort.
There is an odd paradox about moving to the country from London: one's fitness level, such as it is, can decline. In London one does a lot more walking about to get necessities which tend to be available within walking distance (we also lived up a lot of stairs there, but here we are at ground level). In the country shopping needs the car.
One is supposed to take a disciplined approach and take a brisk one-mile circular walk every day. But as a natural slob and idler I can only do that comfortably if there is no work preying on my mind, as there so often is. And the brisk one-mile walk standing up properly (not slumped over the computer with yet another cigarette) and breathing properly is essential. Heavy labour - cutting firewood, trying to fill the enormous potholes in the drive, stuff like that - is no substitute. Odd, that, but it seems to be so.
Herself urges me to go with her as she trots foxily about and does gardening and stuff. I like going, too, when I feel I can. But I often don't.
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>> Herself urges me to go with her as she trots foxily about and does gardening
>> and stuff.>>
Oh dear. I have this image now. It's an elegant refined lady aiming for her mature years, bending over in the garden...and some randy old goat with a **** ** leching at her out of the window, whilst looking at something he shouldn't on the computer.
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Flattery will get you nowhere Westpig.
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He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.
Socrates.
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>> He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of
>> nature.
>> Socrates.
He wasn't wrong, was he.
One thing i've noticed, a big difference between a city and a rural area...to do with cars...is the lack of pretentiousness or need to keep up with the Jones's in the rural area.
In a city, a large part of your budget seemed to be your car. In the countryside, some don't bother with that...a tatty old diesel Peugeot estate seems to be the norm and it has to reek of dog and have inter-galactic mileage on it. It's almost trendy.
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>> One thing i've noticed, a big difference between a city and a rural area...to do
>> with cars...is the lack of pretentiousness or need to keep up with the Jones's in
>> the rural area.
>>
>> In a city, a large part of your budget seemed to be your car. In
>> the countryside, some don't bother with that...a tatty old diesel Peugeot estate seems to be
>> the norm and it has to reek of dog and have inter-galactic mileage on it.
>> It's almost trendy.
>>
Hmm We obviously live in the wrong part of the country.
In deepest darkest rural Staffs, the winter sets in for 6 months and is of Siberian depth - judging by the number of 4x4s collecting darlings from school. (Many may be second hand but so what).
My next car will be a modest fuel efficient green.. Porsche.Cayenne MERDAD AERO 3 HYBRID
tinyurl.com/a85p3jl
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>>One thing i've noticed, a big difference between a city and a rural area...to do with cars...is the lack of pretentiousness or need to keep up with the Jones's in the rural area<<
You've been into Cornwall then Wp.
:)
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>>In a city, a large part of your budget seemed to be your car. In the countryside, some don't
>>bother with that...a tatty old diesel Peugeot estate seems to be the norm and it has to reek
>>of dog and have inter-galactic mileage on it. It's almost trendy.
How interesting. I'd suggest it's the other way round. In the city where your car has to live parked on the street people don't really care about it. Only in the country where people have plenty of gravel drive and big garages do people drive smart motors.
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>> >>In a city, a large part of your budget seemed to be your car. In
>> the countryside, some don't
>> >>bother with that...a tatty old diesel Peugeot estate seems to be the norm and it
>> has to reek
>> >>of dog and have inter-galactic mileage on it. It's almost trendy.
>>
>> How interesting. I'd suggest it's the other way round. In the city where your car
>> has to live parked on the street people don't really care about it. Only in
>> the country where people have plenty of gravel drive and big garages do people drive
>> smart motors.
>>
I suppose the city I was referring to was an Outer London Borough, fairly affluent, so not a city centre...and the countryside i'm talking about is well rural....nowehere near the overspill to an affluent area.
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>>Only in the country where people have plenty of gravel drive and big garages do people drive smart motors. <<
It is city folk who are precious about their cars - the country folk I know will happily wear muddy boots or even put sheep in the boot if needs be. The people who have the gravel drives are just city folk playing at being in the countryside.
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>>It is city folk who are precious about their cars
Not round here we're not. Cars get scraped; it's a fact of life; there aren't many brand-new Astons parked on the street in Zone One.
I was just making the point, TBH.
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I guess it depends which part of the "country" you're in. Commuter belt or the sort of "real" thing.
When we lived 25 miles from the nearest supermarket 1200 feet up a hill most people had some old shed of a (usually diesel estate) car with squillions of miles on it as their daily driver.
Some of them had a "posh" car too of course. No one washed any of them ever as I recall. That would definitely have been seen as ostentatious.
:-)
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>> That would definitely have been seen as ostentatious.
Is the Austin Tatious the one after the 7?
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It's the one with leather seats and a sunroof.
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Financially less well off than 2008 following redundancy and another job change. Income is roughly back to the same numbers as then but prices and inflation have moved on.
Hours have gone up at work with no overtime payment however I remember 7 months unemployed end of 2009 into 2010 so I'll do the extra and be grateful I have a job I enjoy.
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How do you really measure these things. Some of my happiest years were also some of my poorest financially and vice versa. When times are hard you become somehow more grateful for small pleasures and expect less.
The nature of my life has been a constant lurching from financial feast to famine and back several times over. Neither state of affairs scares or excites me now, I just live for today on the basis that one "today" will be my last.
As for your car being used as a measurement of success, well, that's not my view. I have the use of a very nice car at the moment but it's not mine, it just comes with the job I'm currently doing and would disappear like a cloud on a sunny day if the job did. It's meaningless as a measure of wealth.
I would and indeed have run around in any old shed with an engine without a care if the rest of my life required and suited it.
But to give a quick and entirely photographic answer to the OP, right now I'm cash rich (ish) by some standards maybe but time poor. That will undoubtedly change to the reverse again in due course.
Never mind, bring it on, so long as I'm still breathing. Won't matter a damn when I'm not will it?
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 20 Feb 13 at 15:39
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I've thought about this one all day and read the replies and despite coming from a very different background, upbringing and bank balance from most of you, I definitely feel rich.
It's a difficult thing to quantfy and depends on the yard stick we have to measure the past by.
My reasons for feeling rich are:
I live in a lovely rented house and have never envied anyone who owns their own house. If I could buy a house I would want to buy this one and I can stay here forever as it's a long term let and the landlord is great.
I'm retired after a career I loved, but still working in the environment I love because I want to, and I thoroughly enjoy it.
I can pay the bills as and when they come in and if something breaks then it gets replaced without a problem.
There are no material things I want, yearn for or envy others having.
I'm reasonably healthy and so is Ian so that means worrying is at a minimum.
Looking at the above thoughts, most of my life I wouldn't have been able to make any of those statements so yes, I feel very rich and content.
I have also gained the confidence to know that if the hard times ever come back (like Humph says) I can cope with them and still find something to feel rich about.
That's worth all the money in the world.
Pat
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All of that and no whitefly or vine weevils. You truly are rich Pat :-)
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...and I managed to afford to keep the electric heating on in the greenhouse all winter too!
Now there's posh!
Pat
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My income is low compared to most on here, but I have a decent life style BUT I do have to budget, I just don't stop lack of money from having a good time.
In terms of luxury's I spend about £50 a week on leisure, about £20 a month on music. Still living at home so get cheap rent, a room in this area would be around £300 a month plus bills.
In my office where I have to pay all the bills, I don't worry about keeping the heating on, a small increase in the electricity bill is a lot cheaper than being off work with a severe cold.
I live for the day, know too many people who have died young to bother planning anything. I do have a few hundred stashed away but I am planning a holiday with that.
Budgeting is easy though, most my mates spend easily £100 on a night out, I can get away with £25.00. Bus there and night bus back, get to club early for discounted entry and knowing the bar prices of by heart. It is actually a bit of fun.
If I was very rich I would just get so bored.
Am I rich? Well I think I will certainly end up poor, but I could end up dead tomorrow. Enjoy life while it lasts, enjoy yourself its later than you think, enjoy yourself while you're still in the pink.
I am quite lucky to have experienced many different things, that a lot of people haven't. I have been to university, been to a lot of different countries, been to most places in the UK. My life certainly isn't normal but I am happy with what I have got.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Wed 20 Feb 13 at 17:55
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>> I am quite lucky to have experienced many different things, that a lot of people
>> haven't.
>>
That'll get the tongues wagging...
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Compared people on here my experiences are limited. But this site originated from Honest John and was mainly full of Telegraph Readers, says a lot about the demographics on here.
I know plenty of people who have never been to London or out of the country. They know no life outside the area they grew up in. While I haven't travelled the seven seas, I've been up the Eiffel Tower, I've been outside the Sagrada Família and thrown up on the streets of Edinburgh (sorry Navy!).
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>>and thrown up on the streets of Edinburgh<<
Nothing to be proud of Rattle, surely driving all the way round the M60 would be a greater achievement?
Pat
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I was very young, and I didn't realise how much stronger beer is over the border! It was just a tongue in teeth comment anyway.
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>>a tongue in teeth comment <<
Try biting on it next time.
Pat
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>> a tongue in teeth comment <<
Yes, do try to be a bit more coordinated Sheikha or you will hurt yourself.
My mother was given to Malapropisms. 'A flash in the pants' was one of her better ones. Once when the dog - basically a black animal - was a bit off colour she said he was looking 'pale'.
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I have a variable excess of income over expenditure each month so, even working off a low base, I may not be rich but I am relaxed. Still can't find a cash ISA that pays more than inflation but that's another matter.
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>>I know plenty of people who have never been to London or out of the country. They know no life outside the area they grew up in <<
I think you need to expand the circle of people you know then, what are they? Amish?
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>> Amish?
Is he from Edinburgh?
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Very many years ago, when the pools top prize was capped at £75K, a rural Lincolnshire winner said he might, just might, take his wife to London for a day!
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>>Is he from Edinburgh?
Now just a cotton pickin' minute Mr Wurzel...Have another carrot why don't you?
:-)
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>> >>Is he from Edinburgh?
>>
>> Now just a cotton pickin' minute Mr Wurzel...Have another carrot why don't you?
>>
>> :-)
>>
'amish...is 'e from Edinburgh. Thought you'd have got that 'umph....;-)
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>>................and thrown up on the streets of Edinburgh (sorry Navy!).
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Better than your (or my) doorstep. :-)
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I'm not really bothered whether I die rich or poor. However, if I get the chance to stare at my toes on a trolley before the lights go off and have the opportunity to ask myself if I enjoyed the ride, I want to be able to think "oh yeah!"...
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The American aircraft designer had a poster on his office wall which said
Life's a B*tch
And then you die
And other people get your stuff
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>> In terms of luxury's I spend about £50 a week on leisure, about £20 a
>> month on music.
You are way out of my league then. I doubt if I spend as much as that in a whole year.
It depends what you count as leisure I suppose.
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By the standards of the average wage in this country we are poor at about +- 62% of that amount.
BUT we own our own house: paid for, so that needs considering, as does the fact that we have neither work clothes to buy, nor commuting costs to worry about.
We get by, but we need to be pretty careful. We get a very modest amount of council tax benefit and of course the heating allowance.
Do I feel rich? No, not at all.
Last edited by: Roger on Wed 20 Feb 13 at 20:02
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>>You are way out of my league then. I doubt if I spend as much as that in a whole year.<<
I was thinking that. I dont do any leisure activity that costs money - a walk by the canal is as much as I will stretch to. I spend on average £4 a month on my mobile too although I budget for £5!
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Looking after our granddaughter today I feel rich.But tired I feel I'm getting older.
Never thought money has a lot to do with how you feel.Sense of security maybe.
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Dutchie has it.
If you worship money and the things and people it can buy (which tend to vanish when the lolly runs out)), then you will only be happy with lots of it.
If you live for the important things, family love security peace, then having enough to live on makes you rich.
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By leisure I mean seeing mates, going to the pub, just going on a new tram line, e.g anything that isn't essential.
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Money's only a problem if you run out. Wilkins Micawber knew that.
I'm now relatively poor, in that our household income is about a quarter of our spending until May when a small pension arrives to make it half! We receive no benefits other than the boss's pension, winter fuel payment and her bus pass.
We should be able to spend what our retirement income should be from 2018, between now and then without fatal depletion of the hard won reserves, provided the government isn't too successful in robbing us of them as it clearly plans to do.
I'm happy with that. I don't want another proper job. Tempting as it is to look for one to get a bit more of a cushion, I could end up being stressed to death for the next for the next 5 years, then maybe falling off the perch or one of us losing our health - all I would then have achieved is to waste the last 5 years of my life instead of enjoying it.
Meanwhile, I am doing bits of freelance work that I can enjoy, for as long as it lasts. It stretches the money a bit, doesn't stress me, and adds some variety.
Sometimes I feel poor, sometimes I reflect that I am well off, largely through my own efforts at providing for the inevitable early bath. I am quite content for the most part.
The situation we are in has reinforced my belief that you have to look after yourself. Telling people they have to work well beyond 65 is all very well, until you get elbowed out at 59. No age to start collecting the trolleys at Tesco.
I am glad of reasonable health and an understanding wife. Money can't guarantee those.
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>>But tired I feel I'm getting older
You're only as old as the woman you feel Dutchie.
:}
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Money won't buy you friends but you sure can rent a few.
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Do you feel rich or poor? - madf
