I am hoping to have my first week off in five years this summer. I intend to renew my passport and go to northern Spain. Good weather is essential (it doesn't have to be hot, but not raining will be nice) so I plant do it fairly last minute.
Depending on how much money I save I will either
1) Go by an organised coach trip - can work out cheaper, but have to book in advance and can be a bit slow
2) Use national express/Eurolines all the way, less travelling and cheaper in most cases cheaper than 1), and don't need to give any notice.
3) Go by train all the way - my preferred option but is expensive and the timings don't work out as good as the coach.
4) Combination of both, my proffered option is to get the train from Manchester to Lille (via St Pancras) then a coach from Lille. Amazing only a few hours slower than 3 and a lot cheaper.
I will be in northern Spain for about 6 or 7 nights, how much money am I likely to need spending money pay day if I stick to some sort of budget? I am planning on day trips to Barcelona etc, but I will budget for that, so I am just talking about food and drink prices really.
Not been to Spain since 2007 and I suspect it is more expensive now.
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You can do Manchester to Bilbao and back for about £80 in mid June by Easyjet. Why go by coach and rail and take longer?
Last edited by: MJM on Tue 12 Feb 13 at 19:59
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What do you call Northern Spain? To me that means Bilbao. Barcelona is most certainly not a day trip from there!
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I would rather have go to the UK can fly. I hate flying to the point of it will spoil the holiday. You just treat the coach as part of the experience (with pain killers and sleeping tablets to hand!).
By northern Spain I mean the Costa Brava or Costa Daurada. So properly into Spain but still the Northern Half! I am well aware of how long it will take to get down there, but it is not as bad as you would think. I am hoping to spend a night in Paris or Lille (depending on how I get there) to break it up a bit.
Been on a coach to Paris before and been on a train from Berlin to Manchester, I enjoy long distance travel. To me a train ride from Manchester to New Quay is a bus ride! (assuming I get good seats!)
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 12 Feb 13 at 20:10
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Explore this website...
www.seat61.com/Europe-train-tickets.htm
In particular this page...
www.seat61.com/Spain.htm#London-Barcelona_by_daytime_train
If you really don't want to fly, trains might work quite well for you. It will definitely make the travel part of the holiday and you won't need the sleeping pills.
Its very pleasant. There are sleeper trains, even more pleasant, but more expensive.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 12 Feb 13 at 20:16
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Spent a lot of time last year on that site, the train is a lot more expensive than the coach but I do wonder if the coach might be a bit of torture. I would rather go by train for comfort reasons but it may well costs an extra £150. They get expensive when you book last minute, and I don't want go to book too far in advance as even in Spain the weather can be unpredictable. I want to get out the country to have 9 or 10 days away from the wet summer we are almost certain to have here in the UK.
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Check which company operates the sleeper if you plan on using them to cross France. Some are SNCF, and appeared very comfortable from what I've seen of them coming and going on the French rail network.
Some, though, are not. The FS-operated sleeper from Milan through to Paris used to closely resemble something from a newsreel about the concentration camps by the time it ground its sorrowful way through 'my' station on the way to work during my sandwich year in college.
As per my other post, Lonely Planet is your friend in these cases.
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Would you take a sleeper seat on the overnight Brittany Ferries crossing to Bilbao? Infinitely more comfortable than a coach (the Pont Aven also does the Cork-Roscoff line we use on holidays y'see).
Bilbao itself is a lovely city with plenty to do - I was there for work a while back and stayed on the last day - and San Sebastian or La Coruna are about an hour away either side.
Off the top of my head, you'd want at least €50 a day if you plan on hostelling and being frugal, or more like €100 a day if you want to eat, drink and visit places without penny pinching.
A current copy of the Lonely Planet guide to Europe will give you reliable estimates for spending and guidance on how to travel. I've always found them more matter-of-fact than the Rough Guides too.
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By per day I wasn't including the hotel, just money for food and drink. The reason for the North East is the weather is a bit warmer and I do want to revisit Barcelona. The problem with the ferry of sleeping coaches on the train is I don't really fancy sharing a room with strangers.
I am getting a little bit old for that. I seat in the ferry might be good enough though. I will have another look at the ferry option.
One issue is that from Manchester, its far cheaper and quicker for me to get to London than it is Portsmouth which makes London Victoria (Coach) or St Pancreas (Eurostar) my best terminals.
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>>The problem with the ferry of sleeping coaches on the train is I don't really fancy sharing a room with strangers.
You're being a girl again.
If you sleep on the coach, which I suppose you will, then will you not be sharing that coach with strangers?
And in any case, sleepers do not need to be shared.
Honestly, are you sure you shouldn't just buy a sun ray lamp and retire to the backroom?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 12 Feb 13 at 20:27
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I suppose shared bunkers are not as bad as it sounds, it is just security etc it is harder to rob stuff in a coach more people to see what is going on. I know you can get single rooms, but they cost close to £300.
I will buy a copy of the Lonely Planet :)
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Why not take the Panda? Make it a young man's adventure rather than an old fogey's outing ! Strap a mountain bike on the roof or stash it inside. Take a mate to share the costs or even better, a girlfriend...
4-5 hours to the tunnel from Manchester, a long day's drive to Perpignan or thereabouts and you're soon in Catalonia.
C'mon son, live a little !!!
:-)
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>> Why not take the Panda? Make it a young man's adventure rather than an old fogey's outing ! Strap a mountain bike on the roof or stash it inside. Take a mate to share the costs or even better, a girlfriend...
Wasted breath Humph. I had the very same thought. But he won't listen.
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"..Bilbao itself is a lovely city with plenty to do - I was there for work a while back and stayed on the last day - and San Sebastian or La Coruna are about an hour away either side..."
Bilbao - San Sebastian to 1hr 26min and to A Coruña (La Coruña) - 6hr 42min. Those are viamichelin times for a car - probably double for public transport.
My first purchase on moving to Galicia was an umbrella - and that was in the summer!
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I stand corrected, but as I said I stayed on in Bilbao for a day after a work meeting, so I didn't travel any further. My impression was that a car would be useful for touring around, but I doubt Rattle would be keen on organizing a bail bond so he can drive in Spain.
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"but I doubt Rattle would be keen on organizing a bail bond so he can drive in Spain."
Bail bond? They packed up issuing them years ago. One of the many benefits of the EU as Roger will testify.
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Take the Panda with its enviable pulling power. Wales is for wimps - man up!
Will cost you more, but make the journey part of the holiday.
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>> My first purchase on moving to Galicia was an umbrella - and that was in
>> the summer!
>>
Galicia is Celtic country - of course it rains.
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Look at the holiday resorts north of Barcelona, up to (but not including Tossa del mar).
There's an excellent train service from Blanes, stopping at all resorts to Barcelona.
SWMBO and I did this a few years ago when she wanted to see Barcelona (damned expensive) and I fancied including a trip to the Dali museum at Figueres (disappointing).
We had a few days in Barcelona, a day at Figueres, another at Tossa del mar - well worth the visit (stop sniggering at the back) and a couple of days just soaking up the sun.
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Yeah planning of basing myself round the Blanes area, not quite decided where to go yet as I am not quite sure what I want. Don't want to be stuck in a hotel with lots of families, but don't want to be in the middle of a German 18-30 either :p
But I work something out :) Probably will be in a holiday resort though, (I know its frowned upon but I am not flying by Ryan air and staying in the same resort all day drinking beer all day and night!)
Barcelona is expensive but its a photography trip as much as anything (I assume muggings are not a major problem?) just pick pockets.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 12 Feb 13 at 23:26
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>> (I assume muggings are not a major problem?) just pick pockets.
No, muggings are not an issue. Frankly neither are pick-pockets, that's just a standard warning put out for everyone, everywhere.
Also, Barcelona is not particularly expensive. Just like anywhere else, keep clear of the places intended for business people and/or tourists. Bear in mind that not only is English unusual amongst taxi, bus and non-tourist restaurants, its not even really Spanish. A rough guide would be that if they speak English its for business or tourist and therefore expensive.
If you really want an expensive place to stay, then a holiday resort will be perfect.
Since travel is such an issue for you, I suggest that rather than choosing a place and then working out how to get there, you work out how you're going to travel and then stay somewhere near wherever it goes.
Mind you North East Spain is not where I'd go for guaranteed sun on a particular week. And I don't understand what you mean that you'll be basing yourself somewhere. How do you intend to travel around?
And if I wanted to take pictures I'd probably go to Salamanca or similar.
Why don't you just drive down to Plymouth, ferry across to Santander and then go for a drive? Sleeping bag in the car, tent in the boot, and stay at campsites which are really cheap if you're sensible about where you stay.
Grow a pair and try living.
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I suppose it is like anything, people would think Manchester city centre is a dangerous place at night, but as long as you use common sense it is fine. Only had one hairy moment in Manchester some lads looking for a fight.
I must have been in Manchester city centre after hours about 300 times now. and is always fine. Just a matter of being aware of surroundings and not looking for trouble.
Sometimes though you read all the warnings and then imagine las ramblas etc full of pickpockets. Been to Barcelona before and was never a problem.
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>>Only had one hairy moment in Manchester some lads looking for a fight.
The problem with this statement is that you were bothered enough to make it. You really do focus on the negative.
Stop worrying about stuff and just get on with it.
If you've been to Barcelona before, how did you get there last time? Why are you going again?
In my opinion there are an awful lot of places to go in this world the first time, before you start going anywhere twice.
This world is full of some fantastic things to see. There's rather more McD's, Coca Cola and Pizza Hut than I like, but the world is still a good and impressive place.
Aren't you ever going to go and see it?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 13 Feb 13 at 02:14
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You've got a perfectly good car. Drive there. It it will be an adventure, expand your horizons and we will all look forward to reading your daily posts.
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Sometimes you say very wise things CG !
:-)
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My driving adventure will probably a few nights in Anglesey but even that suggestion didn't go down well! Got no mates go to with one set are off to the east coast of America (way out of my budget), the other are going with their girlfriends etc.
The only holiday I do with my mates now seems to be a punk festival in Blackpool. I honestly don't mind though, I always get talking to people etc.
I don't like driving, I don't like flying but I do love coach and train journeys etc.
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>> the others are going with their girlfriends etc<<
Why not suggest a Ménage à trois to them , it can be quite fun, I hear.
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>> I don't like driving, I don't like flying but I do love coach and train
>> journeys etc.
In your Fiat Panda review you said "I really like driving this car"
???
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I like driving the car, I don't like driving. On routes I drive down every day I like it. With my levels of anxiety driving to Spain would be madness!.
I am just not a natural driver.
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I know we'll never convince you and from here on in I'll stop even trying to, but such a trip would knock so many of your driving "anxieties" on the head. I think most who have done it would tell you that driving on French motorways in particular is about as easy as an easy thing can be. They are generally in great condition and with the exception of those which get close to Paris, are remarkably traffic free.
You'd be going at a time of year when the weather should be kind and there are the longest hours of daylight but without the downside of school holiday traffic. It would be a doddle but hey, if you'd rather go on a bus or a train then...
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>>I am just not a natural driver.
No such thing. If there was, it'd be instinctive.
Do you like being a wuss? If you do, more power to you, stop pretending your'e not, and just be comfortable with yourself.
If you prefer not to be a wuss, stop making ridiculous excuses, get off your butt and do something.
If you're not a wuss and in fact are really either Chris Watson or Walter Mitty, then you have far bigger problems than your holiday.
Ultimately, as Humph (I think) said, there is little point in trying to persuade you. You'll grow some balls or you won't, you have them or you don't.
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I was quite worried about driving in the States, but when I got there it was ok. I've never driven on the Continent, and the prospect of driving to Spain scares me. I suspect it would also be ok if I tried it, but the prospect still scares me.
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Has it occurred to you Mark, that Rattle may well know his limitations?
Many people never do and consequently others suffer.
At the very least give him some credit for admitting he doesn't like driving and that doesn't make him a wuss either.
Pat
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>> Has it occurred to you Mark, that Rattle may well know his limitations?
>>
>> Many people never do and consequently others suffer.
That's a very good point . Look at all the nits who persist in trying to drive in snow (e.g. 18th Jan when they had about 2 days warning to stay in) and block the road for everybody else.
But first you have to find your limitations!
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>>Has it occurred to you Mark, that Rattle may well know his limitations?
No, it has not.
Why do you ask? Or is this just more crusading?
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>> >>I am just not a natural driver.
>>
>> No such thing. If there was, it'd be instinctive.
Not so sure Mark. Some people take to it as though it were instinctive while others struggle. My daughter was like a duck to water. The Lad, OTOH, struggled and needed more lessons (though he passed with fewer minors). As a licence holder he is much less receptive to talk about driving technique than his sister.
OTOH the same might apply to life in general; she gets on, he's reflective.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 14 Feb 13 at 21:27
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>>Not so sure Mark
I take your point, but the implication of the statement is that for some driving is unnatural.
And its a series of learned behaviours, everybody can learn it. Which is not to say that everybody does.
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>> And its a series of learned behaviours, everybody can learn it. Which is not to
>> say that everybody does.
Some people just don't 'get' particular learned behaviours no matter how they're introduced and reinforced. I can talk Mrs B through aspects of mechanical awareness/sympathy until the cows come home but it just doesn't catch whether in the car or on a bike.
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"On routes I drive down every day I like it. With my levels of anxiety driving to Spain would be madness!"
Rattle, get a TomTom and your levels of anxiety will drop down to almost zero.
We've always rented a car from the airport, maps spread all over the dash, arguing, trying to work out whether the map's upside down or wherever, flicking vees out of the windows at the foreigners who are flashing at you, whilst you're getting used to a gutless, primitive, manual stirry-stick job.
Four or five years ago, we invested in a TomTom. Hotel already programmed in, you drive from the airport car park straight to your destination. No moaning, no arguing, no veins popping out of your forehead - just stress-free relaxation, looking forward to topless hot sexy foreigners who are flashing at you (by the pool).
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I sometimes think my kids are more adventurous......
Taking the car is a really good idea - gives you complete freedom to move around, and the panda is so cheap to run that its likely to be one of the cheapest ways to get there.
I know you really don't want to fly, but its 2 hours. Any other method is going to take you a lot longer. I don't enjoy flying, but in lots of cases it really it the most efficient method and I couldn't do my job without it.
I have a sneaking suspicion that this trip might not materialise, but I'd like to be proven wrong
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Oh Good. I do enjoy these.
Another nice long Rattly saga.
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>> Oh Good. I do enjoy these.
>>
>> Another nice long Rattly saga.
You know, when a rattle saga comes on here, specially about travel my mind is always drawn to one track of music....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QUOfJkvVGg&playnext=1&list=PLynLcHSiPW4icAVhyFYwGjFCMknUx40Y0&feature=results_main
Rattles on a train to nowhere, halfway down the line
He don't wanna get there, but he needs time
He ain't sophisticated, nor well-educated
After all the hours he wasted, still he needs time.
He needs time - he needs time for livin',
He needs time - for someone just to see him.
He ain't had no lovin'
For no reason or rhyme
And the whole world's above him.
Well it's not as though he's fat-
No there's more to this than that-
See he tries to play it cool-
Wouldn't be nobodys fool.
rattle thought that all good things comes to those that wait
But recently he could see that it may come too late.
All through your life, all through the years
Nobody loved, nobody cared.
So dim the light, dark are your fears
Try as I might, I can't hold back the tears
How can you live without love, it's not fair?
Someone said give but I just didn't dare.
What good advice are you waiting to hear?
Hearing's alright for them that's all there
You'd better gain control now
You'd better show'em all now
You'd better make or break now
You'd better give and take now
You'll have to push and shove now
You'll have to find some love now
You'd better gain control now.
Now he's just come out the movie.
Numb of all the pain,
Sad but in a while he'll soon be
back on his train...
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"I am hoping to have my first week off in five years this summer"
If it's only a week and you're not going to fly you aren't going to have much time in Spain are you? 2 days there and 2 days back (about) leaves 3 days in the middle.
Flying only takes a few hours each way.
Driving? Must be about 1200 miles (?) to Barcelona. That's 2 very long days driving each way. Coach would probably have 2 drivers but would still be long hours in the coach.
Think you have to fly (and I rarely fly 'cos MrsW hates it!) or choose somewhere closer to home and maybe forget guaranteed sunshine but with good photo ops (Germany, N France coast, Loire Valley if you like chateaux, Paris??? Cologne?? Rhine Valley? Amsterdam? Whitby? Scarborough??Devon?
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I s'pose, in Rattle's defence, the thing about one man band self employment is that you don't only need to factor in the cost of a holiday but also the loss of earnings while you are on holiday. Having said that, we always used to take at least 3 consecutive weeks every summer when I was paying my own stamp and pre-family we would take the Westfield and just follow the sun.
Some of our best memories actually.
I (and only just) managed to take 8 days off last year including bank holidays, 11 days the year before and due to "austerity measures" ( aka not enough people to do the work ) I'm not sure if any time off will be possible this year sadly.
Make hay while the sun shines Rats, don't waste it, it's all looking like going belly up soon...
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 13 Feb 13 at 18:48
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>> Why not Cruise to Spain & back?
>>
>> www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/ferry-routes/ferries-spain
>>
Portsmouth to Santander, midweek, £79 each way.
Job done!
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>> Make hay while the sun shines Rats, don't waste it, it's all looking like going
>> belly up soon...
>>
>>
Ahhhhh, so its Republic you work for!
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No, but, let's just say, their demise is one of many to come... This will not be a happy year for a number of high st retailers.
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I'm sure you are right. The post xmas slump will starve quite a few retailers of cash, pushing them over the edge.
Also suspect that we may be one bed retailer less in the coming months
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March is a crunch time, rents are due.
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Yup, watch this space...
Edit - also, most "Spring" stock deliveries take place in Feb / March. Usually with a 30 day line of credit. Post Easter, it'll be a financial bloodbath. Turnovers running at between 20 and 40% short of requirements. Do the math as the colonials say...
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 13 Feb 13 at 19:58
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The rail link between the French TGV and the Spanish AVE recently opened (I think) - may be worth exploring whether there are any bargain fares - would probably half the time of a coach.
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As I already said the cost of getting to Portsmouth is very high compared to getting to London but I still haven't discounted the ferry idea if the timings work out, I think the problem was that the coach left very early in Portsmouth, which would mean an over night stay (adding to the cost) or getting a night coach there.
I don't think the full high speed train is going to open until April it is all up in the air, and that is why I am finding it hard to get exact prices. The TVG will be brilliant but there is a good chance it won't be ready in time for when I go. From what I understand it will be 5 hours from Paris to Barcelona, meaning that I could easily do the trip in one day if the timings work out ok.
I was also intending go more last minute so I can check weather forecasts.
I am hoping to be away from home for about 10 or 11 days in total, I think I will need about £1500 in total allowing for loss of earnings. Although unless its an emergency people will be able to wait a few days.
Got around £400 in the pot so far.
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Zero, are you saying that retailers pay their rents annually?
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Quarterly, BobbyG. On the Quarter Days.
Christmas Day, the Annunciation, Midsummer Day and Michaelmas Day.
Traditionally, of course, the year began on the Annunciation (or Lady Day).
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Interesting (and very apt!) I didn't recognise the song from the lyrics funnily enough, funny because Supertramp are one-of my favourite groups from the olde days.
This is one of my faves played live, not an easy song to play live I should imagine, the studio version is much better (IMO) but I'll still give em 10/10.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVdsTI5Ct6A
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London to Portsmouth, £10 by train each way. Yeah, it's probably the same ticket price as you're expecting for Manchester to London, and you'll have to add in £1.40 for a bus (the 59 or 68) or a bit more for the tube.
But honestly, you're not going for long enough to do anything but fly. And driving is out of the question IMO.
Get one of these tinyurl.com/cyn9gux
Book your flights/trains now and they'll be dirt cheap. Wait for the weather forecast and you'll be booking premium last-minute tickets and they'll cost a fortune. It's Spain, you'll be fine...
Sometimes I feel like we should be banging your head against a brick wall, rather than our own...
Spain is superb. Go to Madrid if you've already done Barcelona.
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>>Sometimes I feel like we should be banging your head against a brick wall, rather than our own...<<
My 93 yr old father has got more get up and go. (And he is currently in an ICU bed with a new hip!!!!!!!!!)
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This should get you in the mood for a trip Rattle:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7aPp-4z-uw
:)
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Rattle
We did Folkestone to Pineda by coach , which is an hour from Barcelona a couple of years ago with Siesta Holidays. It was pretty good, crossing Eurotunnel PM, arrive in Spain next morning, seats recline, hostess with food, cheap & painless, travel only £99 IIRC. Hotels offered need a bit of research on Tripadvisor, but we went to a good all inclusive in Pineda. Pineda has a coastal railway, trains direct to Barcelona & other resorts along the coast. Do it this way & you won't need much spending money.
HTH
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>> Go to Madrid if you've already done Barcelona.
>>
Seconded: See the Palacio Real, (Royal Palace) including the fascinating armoury, travel a little outside the city and visit the wonderful monastery of El Escorial, where there is a sumptuous underground sepulchre where the kings and queens of Spain are interred. Do see the Valle de los Caídos (the valley of the fallen), built by Franco, mostly by forced labour, as a monument to the dead of the civil war.
Regrettably we never did make it to Barcelona, particularly to see Gaudi's unfinished masterpiece, La Sagrada Famalia.
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>>Regrettably we never did make it to Barcelona, particularly to see Gaudi's unfinished masterpiece, La Sagrada Famalia.
Stunning, from the outside. I was, unfortunately, stupid enough to pay to go inside - you can see building sites anywhere.
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It won't be finished in my sons lifetime let alone mine or yours
They can't afford to lose its USP!!
If you like his work you can go to park guelle
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In Moscow, where they understand work ethic, this thing took six years to build (replacing the idential one that was demolished before the war to make way for a swimming pool...)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Christ_the_Saviour
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Student friends and I used to break in to the swimming pool that was there, in the wee small hours after a few beers at the Intourist Hotel foreign currency bar (there were virtually no local currency pubs/bars at the time due to Gorbachev's dry policy), to go skinny dipping. It was far more useful as a pool than it will ever be as another blasted church.
It was even possible to do so in the depths of a Russian winter, as the pool was super heated and gave off a huge cloud of mist. Thinking about it, it was only in winter that we did it as you couldn't be seen by the local Militsia from outside of the fence because of the mist.
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And here's something else to give Rattle palpitations - I'm off skiing tomorrow, in Bosnia, for a week. I'm flying there via Belgrade with dodgy East European airlines. A very old turboprop will be taking me over the jaggedy mountains from Belgrade to Sarajevo. I loathe and despise flying, and am moderately afraid of it (OK, hysterically so), but it won't stop me travelling.
If I don't ever post on here again, it'll be because I've wandered off piste and encountered one of the many thousands of landmines as yet uncleared from the mountains.
Sayonara.
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Good luck. It must be cheap, I approve of thrift ;-)
Flying doesn't bother me, but Malev to Hungary used to make me sweat a bit. It was always about 1/3 cheaper than BA.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 14 Feb 13 at 16:39
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Enjoy it Alanovic, hope Mrs A is going too...it will do her so much good!
Pat
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Thanks for the other ferry suggestions I will look into it further.
My thinking my favourite method will be to book further in advanced, spend a bit more but do the entire tip in the day possibly spending the first night in Figueres.
It would simply be:-
Manchester to London - 2 hours
London to Paris - 1 hour and 40 minutes
Paris to Figueres - 5 hours
It just depends on the connection times, and getting to London early can be expensive but there are some cheap basic B&Bs around Victoria.
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Just dont take a coach.
It will be full of Mr and Mrs Chav and their small chavs,
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>> Just dont take a coach.
Take a nice steady drive down instead...
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>> >> Just dont take a coach.
>>
I did an overnight coach trip from London to Glasgow years ago. Yes, it was cheap but I got aches and pains and cramp everywhere. Sitting in one of those seats for hours on end is pretty unpleasant.
At least with the car you can take breaks when you want. The sleeper service on trains is fantastic. It's smooth and quiet enough to go to sleep, and when you wake up your almost there and rejuvenated.
Flying would be easiest though.
Anything but the coach.
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It depends on the coach. The Siesta ones have a lot of legroom and proper reclining seats but as mentioned probably full of chavs.
The Euroline ones will be full of travelers and tourists who just want to go get there, I have traveled with Megabus a few times to London and found the passengers to be very quiet and very well behaved. However I forget every time I go one, I always think why did I spend £30 extra and get the train.
The Euroline coach will just be a standard coach so not very comfortable. Looked at the ferries again and it does seem a very expensive option. A compromise to save money might end up being getting a train from Manc to London, then getting a coach to Paris from London, then a train down from there but I do think getting the coach all the way there will prove much. Also on a train at least you can walk about a bit.
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I've now got stuck in my head a song my daughter was always singing, about 10 years ago..........
'Tell me......Why you have to go and make things so complicated?'
Avril Lavigne I think.
Sorry Rats, couldn't resist it.
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Why say it in ten words when you can say it in a thousand? That has always been my motto :).
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>> Why say it in ten words when you can say it in a thousand? That
>> has always been my motto :).
A picture paints 1000 words.
goo.gl/Rz2l9
Manchester-Bilbao, out Tues 18/6 back Friday 28/6, GBP125. Book it Danno Ratto.
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We did enjoy it, Pat. Mrs A was there and enjoyed herself very much. The children mastered the art very quickly.
For Manatee, yes, it was cheap, in terms of ski trips. All in, it worked out at about half the price of the holidays we'd looked at in the French Alps, for similar facilities and accommodation etc. Would recommend Bosnia as a ski destination wholeheartedly.
Can't say I much enjoyed the turboprop flights between Belgrade and Sarajevo though. Good job they only last 40 minutes. The planes they use are ATR-72s, no idea where they come from, who made them or how old they are. But it's like travelling in a giant, angry wasp.
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>> Can't say I much enjoyed the turboprop flights between Belgrade and Sarajevo though. Good job
>> they only last 40 minutes. The planes they use are ATR-72s, no idea where they
>> come from, who made them or how old they are. But it's like travelling in
>> a giant, angry wasp.
FRanco-Italian job with assistance from Airbus. Been around since the eighties but still in production.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 27 Feb 13 at 11:06
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>> FRanco-Italian job
:-0 !!!!!!
So a flying Renault-Alfa. Good grief.
;-)
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I flew on a British Airways ATR72 back from Hanover getting on for 10 years ago. If you get a propeller seat, it takes every ounce of faith you have in engineering not to pull the blinds when the blade pitch changes and the revs go up for take off. This massive, noisy, spinning monstrosity is far closer to your head than you would ever let it get in any other circumstances. :-)
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>> I flew on a British Airways ATR72 back from Hanover getting on for 10 years
>> ago. If you get a propeller seat, it takes every ounce of faith you have
>> in engineering not to pull the blinds when the blade pitch changes and the revs
>> go up for take off. This massive, noisy, spinning monstrosity is far closer to your
>> head than you would ever let it get in any other circumstances. :-)
>>
Yes, we got the propeller seat both ways. Rows 3 and 4. Of course, the children insisted on taking the window seats. they weren't so sure they'd made the right choice when the blades started spinning, but they soon got used to it.
One interesting (to me) note form the journey, on the London-Belgrade-London flights, I noticed that the cabin crew opened up the cockpit door several times, revealing the pilots and flight deck. I had been given to think that, since 2001, cockpit doors were sealed for the duration of the flight. Is that not the case?
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>
>> One interesting (to me) note form the journey, on the London-Belgrade-London flights, I noticed that
>> the cabin crew opened up the cockpit door several times, revealing the pilots and flight
>> deck. I had been given to think that, since 2001, cockpit doors were sealed for
>> the duration of the flight. Is that not the case?
Nah, the door is secure, but not sealed. There are numerous reasons for the crew to open the door, there are no bogs on the flight deck you know!
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>> Nah, the door is secure, but not sealed. There are numerous reasons for the crew
>> to open the door, there are no bogs on the flight deck you know!
>>
Unless you are flying with the North African airline that I had the dubious pleasure to fly with a few weeks back. Appears that propping the cockpit door open and inviting favorite passengers up on the flight deck is still common practice for some
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Ryanair Ringway to Girona 'Barcelona'.
Sunday 9th June £45; Return Sunday 15th June £55. 10kg is plenty for a week's holiday.
Seat Ibiza Hire (through Ryanair) £130 for the week. & the world is your Oyster.
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>>10kg is plenty for a week's
>> holiday.
Not traveled with my wife then, 22kg a week is her average baggage load.
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flyingwithoutfear.com/
Do you realise, in all seriousness, you are significantly (in the order of many hundreds of times) more likely to die in the car driving to the airport than you are on the plane flying to Spain? And the odds for dying in the car are negligible.
Flying won't (can't) stay this cheap for many more years as the price of aviation fuel is only going to go one way. I firmly believe future generations will look back on the current era of cheap, convenient air travel with envy. Make the most of it and use it.
Last edited by: DP on Fri 15 Feb 13 at 11:21
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If it were possible to tax aviation fuel at the same rate as unleaded petrol in the UK, that would raise approximately £10 billion per year.
That isn't going to happen for a variety of reasons, but nonetheless with an eye on a prize that large, and the current fiscal climate, there will inevitably be pressure to increase the tax take somehow, and yes, cheap flights will start to become less cheap.
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no viable alternative to jet fuel either. Even the yanks, who dropped rail for air, are now looking carefully at proper transcontinental HST.
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"Not traveled with my wife then, 22kg a week is her average baggage load"
A week of KY Jelly?
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I'd say fly down with EasyJet from Manchester and then use trains and buses while you're there. You could fly into Bilbao, take the train south through Toledo etc to Barcelona, and fly back from there.
I know you said you don't like flying but I do it every day for a living and hardly ever crash. Far more likely to be involved in a road accident on the way down if taking a coach, and ferries have those inconvenient doors on the front which are easy to forget about...
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>> I do it every day for a living and hardly ever crash
Tea-on-monitor moment...
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Isn't every landing a controlled crash?
I promise not to mention Glasgow Edinburgh airport.............................
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Spending money for nothern Spain? - MJM
