Daughter works for a charity managing children's centres. By her job description 56% of her work is doing so. She's been there less than 2 years.
They lost the contract to another company, and she's been put on the TUPE list. The charity have said they no longer will need the remaining 44%.
Chances of the new company wanting 56% of her are apparently slim, and they are based about 50 miles further from home than the old place.
I don't know much about TUPE and employment law. She's assuming she'll be out of work.
Anyone know what's likely to happen, or what she's entitled to?
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Yes, thanks, but she doesn't think the new company will want her - maybe on reading that they don't have a choice? It's the percentage spit of her workload which I think will complicate it.
And if they do take her, are they under any obligation to assist towards additional travel costs?
Last edited by: smokie on Sat 26 Jan 13 at 13:59
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This is going to combine Redundancy, voluntary redundancy and TUPE.
And I'd say she's correct, she is going to be jobless with little or no compensation. Sorry.
There is plenty of room for it to be done fairly, so unless the firm is dumb, they're not likely to drop one. And unless they do make a significant error, then I'm afraid she's not entitled to much.
If you have reason to suspect that she is not being treated fairly then you need to seek advice. And proper advice from an employment lawyer who knows what he is doing. But you'd probably need something like discrimination or intimidation, even for that to be worthwhile.
And I certainly mean better and more qualified than anything I say.
CAB can help, many employment lawyers do a free clinic for the first meeting, her house insurance may cover legal expenses or she could find a no win / no fee lawyer (pretty much all of that last are worthless).
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Not quite clear to me what you mean, but sounds as if she'll be made redundant to me. She should have TUPE rights under employment law if she is kept on or made redundant - if she wants practical help - may help her to read this link
www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3796
Or phone ACAS they offer a very good advice line - 08457 47 47 47
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Unfortunately, with her having been employed less than two years, they can get rid of her for no cause. As long as they don't do it for race, disability, sex etc.
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That only applies post April 1st 2012.
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Use ACAS and CAB in that order - no claims no fees not worth it.
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Should clarify, it's proper expert advice she may need now - get the advice for nothing and then consider her options - ACAS will help from the outset - when it gets too much for them they signpost to CAB for face to face help - they won't charge - depending on her situation - if she's on benefits she'll automatically get Legal Help - they'll represent her at tribunal if she qualifies. But that's well in the future and may not be worth perusing.
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(Been away, hence the the delay)
Thanks all, I suppose I wasn't really thinking so much of what she might get out of it - I think we know it won't pay her mortgage for long!! More whether he new company would be obliged to take her on, even though there is not a FT role for her.
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They are obliged to consider her, and must have a sound business reason for not taking her.
TUPE does not protect you against justifiable redundancy.
Provided they are careful, then they can pretty much choose their course.
There are clauses, not recruiting into a comparable role, not allocating part of that role elsewhere etc. etc., all of which are manageable by the wise.
Honestly, if they offer her a job all well and good, if they don't and there is no obvious sign of discrimination, then you'd be better to let it go.
It is perhaps better to come from the other angle;
- Does she want the job?
- Expenses to one side, can she live with the travel?
- Is she genuinely good at it and better than those around her?
- Can she see some way that she is able to bring advantage to the new company?
If so, write a letter and seek a meeting with the new company. My experience suggests that any intelligent contract manager would at least speak with her.
And she has nothing to lose.
For her, in that position, this is an opportunity for sales and negotiation, not a soapbox,
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 29 Jan 13 at 02:47
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It moved on a bit last week. She was 50% on the TUPE list, a bizarre situation. She was not allowed to contact the new company directly during that period, that was all done by her existing HR.
The last day for the new company to interview her was Friday, and she had an appointment set for 09:30 and was fully prepared with photo, background docs etc as requested. She got a call Fri am from the new company saying don't bother, she shouldn't have been on the list.
Apparently the old company is going to challenge that, they have 14 days to do so.
What she really wants is to earn money for as long as possible - she recognises her long term prospects aren't good whichever way it goes - and likelihood is that the old company will just put her at risk of redundancy, from 31 March. She is a bit miffed because there have been jobs come up at the new company which she could have applied for had she known before, and also she's held back from applying for other jobs with a half -expectation that she would get TUPEd. It's also a little complicated by the mortgage protection insurance she has, she could really do with redundancy being the way she ends up not working for it to kick in.
Anyway she is now actively job hunting outside these two companies. AFAIK she doesn't plan any "action" against these companies - it's a fairly small world she works in - but she does feel like she's been unnecessarily messed around, and I agree.
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Get her to phone ACAS for advice - 08457 47 47 47.
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I will, but even if whatever happened is found in her favour any compensation won't be worth much, so she probably won't pursue anything. She's not out for blood really.
It's a sign of the times how people can get messed around by companies though.
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>> I will, but even if whatever happened is found in her favour any compensation won't
>> be worth much, so she probably won't pursue anything. She's not out for blood really.
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>> It's a sign of the times how people can get messed around by companies though.
It is, and she will now come up against the next hurdle. There are few "full time for life" jobs now, betcha every job she gets offered with be a 6 month renewable contract at best.
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I come across a large number of complaints against private companies in my line of work now. What's clear is that they are riding roughshod over employment law. Large and small companies. SOme surprisingly big. Agree with Zero. Dog eat dog.
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So Zero, is that a contract the same as an IT contract, i.e. could she accept it through my one-man company? Might have some tax advantages (but I'd need to change the company's business classification).
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>> So Zero, is that a contract the same as an IT contract, i.e. could she
>> accept it through my one-man company?
No, its a short term contract of employment, thats rolled over for another 6 months if they want to keep you. It means they can sack you at any time with no compensation or recourse to employment laws. Its becoming very commonplace these days.
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TUPE etc - Old Navy
