Fire warning over 'dangerous modern fridge freezers'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20908209
www.blackburncitizen.co.uk/news/10139914.Fault_with_fridge_led_to_Blackburn_house_fire_____probe/
tinyurl.com/ab8xcbv www.kilburntimes.co.uk/
The TV item covering this included the LFB saying these are difficult fires for the householder to deal with.
The relaxed approach.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvs4v1gk1aky
but it is a safer USA model.
The good news seems to be that there is almost nothing easily found on Youtube.
Sleep well!
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 00:21
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"Fire warning over 'dangerous modern fridge freezers"
This provoked a "conversation" in our house a while ago. I think it was a comedy routine by Michael MacIntyre that provoked it - basically his wife went round the house switching off every appliance at the socket because of fire risk - but left the fridge on. Why do you trust the fridge but nothing else he asked?
Same in our house - MrsW switches off everything, and I mean everything, at the socket every night. Bloomin' infuriating when you switch on kettle in morning, go for shower, come down to find kettle hasn't boiled (Yes, it happens every morning!!) Put bread in toaster, press lever down, come back in 5 mins, no toast. Strain my back to reach socket for tumble drier every time I need it. In a rush, switch on washer, rush out, come back 3 hours later and washer hasn't started. And yet, dishwasher has socket you can't reach, as does coffee machine so they remain "switched on". And for some reason the telly and freeview box(? - I don't watch much telly) must not be switched off at socket. So, if I go to bed later than Mrs W it's " Have you switched off everything? Kettle, lights, washer, computer etc etc? You didn't switch of telly though did you?
Mrs W is away at mo - do I switch everything off? I'd better, she's bound to ring me in morning and ask!!
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A modern smoke alarm in the kitchen solves the problem.
(we have 4 in the house..)
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There are a few reported cases of mobile phone chargers causing fires but Washing machines are a major cause of domestic fires, Figures from USA for 2010
In 2010, an estimated 16,800 reported U.S. non-confined or confined home structure fires involving clothes dryers or washing machines resulted in 51 civilian deaths, 380 civilian injuries and $236 million in direct property damage.
Clothes dryers accounted for 92% of the fires; washing machines 4%, and washer and dryer combinations accounted for 4%.
The leading cause of home clothes dryer and washer fires was failure to clean (32%), followed by unclassified mechanical failure or malfunction (22%). Eight percent were caused by some type of electrical failure or malfunction.
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>>(we have 4 in the house..)<<
I'm with mad f.
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There are 24 million households in the UK, lets assume that 90% have freezers left on overnight, so thats 21.6 million freezers all buzzing away each night.
There were a reported 336 fires, from those 21.6 million freezers, which means you have a 0.00001555555556 chance of coming down to cooked food rather than frozen.
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I was looking forward to doing the sums too, but zero beat me to it, assuming they're right.
Switching off each night is the least in a related household. Every night everything is physically unplugged, which makes for an awful to do when electricity is required.
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I have similar thoughts to Zero but have yet to check his maths :-)
Yes smoke alarms will give a warning but the LFB guy was saying the fires were hard to fight ( for us?). Me, I am out the door and call the lads.
An upright fridge/freezer built in , in a kitchen, with its back alight IMO is quite a challenge.
Of course the TV demo was showing a fire in the yard.
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someone will check the maths no doubt.
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>> A modern smoke alarm in the kitchen solves the problem.
>>
"Solves" as in lets you get out of the house safely so that you can watch it burn down from outside?
I've recently inherited my mother's 1954 Prestcold fridge. It's still running, and has been continuously since new. No problems so far, but time will tell.
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>> (we have 4 in the house..)
Kitchens or smoke alarms? ;)
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>> The relaxed approach.
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvs4v1gk1aky
>> but it is a safer USA model.
You have to wonder about people, specially those who's first reaction to a fire in the kitchen is to fetch a video camera.
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>>You have to wonder about people, specially those who's first reaction to a fire in the kitchen is to fetch a video camera.
I was tempted when I found SWMBO standing on a chair because the moggy had brought in the smallest mouse I'd ever seen.
I thought dishwashers were one of the most common cause of house fires? I understood the wiring had to pass through the hinged door section and therefore flexed every time the door was opened resulting in eventual fraying.
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Would have expected an RCD (30mA) to have picked up a short. Perhaps the fires are in premises without effective circuit protective devices? Not that they can prevent all electrical fires, but ost, or so I have been led to believe.
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>>
>> I thought dishwashers were one of the most common cause of house fires? I understood
>> the wiring had to pass through the hinged door section and therefore flexed every time
>> the door was opened resulting in eventual fraying.
>>
That was my understanding; funnily enough the dishwasher at Spamcan Towers let its magic smoke out yesterday evening; there was a 'phut' noise from the kitchen, everyone else just carries on watching the **** pump, I go into the kitchen and there's smoke rising from the dishwasher handle aperture. Power off and the smoke stopped, shudder to think what could've happened if it had happened at night.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 7 Jan 13 at 00:39
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Mrs RR used to roll her eyes to Heaven because I insisted that the washing machine never be left on while the house was empty. Then one day one of the arms on the support frame broke during the spin cycle, causing a fearful racket, sparks and clouds of smoke everywhere.
Point taken.
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I find it unbelievable that:
1. the circuit breakers in the mains supply don't trip with an electrical fault
2. there are no smoke alarms
I assume some of these cases have bypassed their electricity meters...
As for barbecues in the house... common sense nil.. Darwinism in action.
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Probably also down to duff wiring and old consumer units. From tinyurl.com/afd6lb7 Electricity safety Council. 49% of homes in the UK are without adequate RCD protection in the consumer unit.
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Do people ever switch off computers, routers and the like? I only ever switch off the Apple computer whenI go away for a week or more and it seems to takes away the point of wifi if its not available all the time.
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Is a wifi router any more of a risk than a cordless phone ? Ours only goes off if we are away for more than 24 hours.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 16:09
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I leave the wireless router on except when we go away for a few days.Television is left on standby,when we are in.We have three fire alarms kitchen living room upper landing.There is a escape route upstairs through window onto car port in case we can't get down the stairs.I've never locked double glazed windows.I think the biggest risk is people smoking and having a drink leaving a fag end down the settee whilst nodding off.Chip pan fires used to be favorites and children left playing with matches .
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>> Do people ever switch off computers, routers and the like? I only ever switch off
>> the Apple computer whenI go away for a week or more and it seems to
>> takes away the point of wifi if its not available all the time.
>>
I do, I don't see the point of having them on when I don't need them.
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I did have a router kinda explode, it made a pop, the magic smoke escaped, and refused to work again. Didnt catch fire tho. It took out the phone too. And caused a lightning strike near the exchange...
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"I do, I don't see the point of having them on when I don't need them."
But if you decide to look up something on the internet or listen to the internet radio you've got to fire the things up which kind of takes away the point. The computer goes into sleep mode after 10 minutes and I can't believe a router uses much in the way of power.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 16:38
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I switch my router off with the computer whenever I'm not using it and never use sleep mode.
I never leave anything on standby either...I can't afford to pay the electricity bill for needless use and when you check a number of small items like that on an energy meter, they really do add up over a year.
Pat
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I see your point about standby Pat.I can switch the telly off but then the channels are all muddled up can't find them.Anyway thats' my excuse.>;)
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The brand of cigs I used to smoke work out at 39p each. I reckon I can afford to leave my router on now.
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Turning it on and waiting a minute doesn't really bother me nor take away the point. I can't say I'm needing to look things up things online lots of times in the day. I guess it depend how often you go online.
Do you turn it off when you go to bed?
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I suppose I look at wifi like water or electricity. I would find it a pain if I had to turn the water on at the mains every time I filled the kettle and its the same with wifi
I use wifi for iplayer on the TV, streamed audio via Apple TV, as well as the ipod touch which I use for internet radio quite a lot . I also use skype quite a lot and also need basic internet access for everything from looking up a phone number to checking the bank statement.
I take Pat's point about the pennies mattering but by my calcs keeping the Apple in sleep mode for a month costs less that 2p. Not sure what a router costs to run but it can't be much.
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I do as well, I wouldn't leave the lights on because at some point I'll enter that room at night, although I know it's not quite the same thing.
Fair enough, like I said I suppose it depends how often you use it.
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>> Do you turn it off when you go to bed?
>>
I try and do the opposite.
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"there's smoke rising from the dishwasher handle aperture."
It wasn't a Bosch, was it, Spamcan? We bought a Bosch in Feb 2005 - and it worked absolutely perfectly. In July 2011, Bosch contacted us by letter to say that an urgent modification had to be carried out on dishwashers within a certain serial number range - and ours fell within that range. I searched the internet for information and found that several Bosch dishwashers in the US had caught fire and the problem was a faulty main control unit housed in the door behind the control panel; worldwide, there were estimated to be about half a million dodgy machines! Of course, with litigation being what it is in the US, then action had to be taken and, fair dues to Bosch, they didn't hang about.
The very efficient Bosch engineer came out to do the job and explained that the engineers had to block out a fortnight to enable them to concentrate on the modifications; when they heard this, they knew it was a biggy. The invoice/information sheet stated 'The invoice amount of 271.75 plus VAT is covered internally out of goodwill'. The dishwasher is still going strong.
Apparently Bosch had put adverts in newspapers etc, but I suspect that thy were able to contact me because I had registered the machine when I first took ownership - and we hadn't moved house. Registering a new purchase was very hit or miss for me but, after receiving a safety recall notice, I ALWAYS do it now [there's a tip, folks!].
And would I buy another Bosch? - without a doubt! They took their responsibilities seriously.
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The router only goes off for holidays. With five laptops, three smartphones, two i-pods and a couple of other bits as well it never rests.
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Only thing I unplug when not using is the iron, despite being a new build some of the sockets are a bit dodgy and don't always switch off. Everything else I leave on standby, including the router which hasn't been switched off for months.
According to my fairly accurate electricity monitor (it measures power factor so tends to spit out correct readings) and Southern Electric's website, the “resting" consumption is 48 watts. Happy with that, can't be bothered with the insane startup times modern gadgets have when given a cold start.
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>> Only thing I unplug when not using is the iron, despite being a new build some of the sockets are a bit dodgy and don't always switch off.
Then SUE somebody/inform the local Building Control/pester the developer and generally create havoc for them. NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Yours........A Builder.
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>> Only thing I unplug when not using is the iron, despite being a new build
>> some of the sockets are a bit dodgy and don't always switch off.
I'm stating the obvious here but if they're not switching off then there's something wrong with either the wiring or the quality of the faceplates. If wiring it's a fire risk too.
You've only been there a couple of months IIRC.
Get onto the builders and get it sorted while you're still in the 'snagging' stage.
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where no earth did the builders source the electrical gubbins from? Dont ask it has to be Dimprex, Clabtree, or KM.
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>> >> Only thing I unplug when not using is the iron, despite being a new
>> build
>> >> some of the sockets are a bit dodgy and don't always switch off.
>>
>> I'm stating the obvious here but if they're not switching off then there's something wrong
>> with either the wiring or the quality of the faceplates. If wiring it's a fire
>> risk too.
>>
>> You've only been there a couple of months IIRC.
>>
>> Get onto the builders and get it sorted while you're still in the 'snagging' stage.
>>
>>
It's not the wiring, it's the socket (or more specifically, the switch, which won't latch open). I changed the two that were obviously broken myself, the others do it very intermittently but I don't think I've got a strong enough case to insist the whole lot are replaced.
In general the standard of electrical wiring is top notch, though obviously done to a budget. What's not so impressive is the wiring the plumber did for the boiler, which gave me a surprise the first time I saw it...
i.imgbox.com/ado89ZTw.jpeg
Response from the builders was "well, it works, doesn't it?". I came to the conclusion long ago that a lot of plumbers are rubbish at their jobs, lured in by the honey-pot of sky-high rates and government-backed training a few years ago. The irritating thing about the box above is that the boiler manual contains a beautifully clear diagram of how it should go together.
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>> "there's smoke rising from the dishwasher handle aperture."
>>
>> It wasn't a Bosch, was it, Spamcan?
Close, it was a 2001 vintage Hotpoint, which I recall noticing at the time was identical to a Bosch model, other than the front panel button shape, so they obviously came off the same production line. Thanks for the headsup, i'll have a bit of a dig in the interweb. Must find my Torx drivers tomorrow so I can have a poke about and see what smoked.
In terms of leaving stuff on, the ADSL 2+ modem, wireless access point and NAS are left on 24/7, there are 2 internet radios and 5 PVRs in standby. MY father was from the generation that unplugged everything and shut all doors before going to bed, the Spamettes leave everything on and all doors open, I'm somewhere in the middle.
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'er indoors turns most things off at bedtime!
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I'd say a "router" must cost pennies. For me it's an VDSL modem plus router/switch. Actually two switches if you then add in the Gigabit switch my main stuff plugs into. Plus the NAS.
I have an electric meter close by my office desk and in normal use there's more than I'd like drawing power. If I turn off the NAS, computers etc. it drops but still a fair amount being used.
But the cost is insignificant probably compared to the 3kW kettle, the tumble dryer, the washing machine etc. And I have bulbs to swap into the bathroom because the down-lighters in there take about 200W!
As for turning off Internet.... thoughts would be along the lines of who decides it goes off:
- Step-son uses it a lot (wifi access)
- STB has access
- Mobile phone uses wifi when at home
- My home computer uses it
- My work laptop uses it
- My tablet uses it
So what part of the day should I turn it all off and how best to do it? I'd guess it can be off from maybe 2am and 7:30am. I used to have the router turn off wifi automatically but it made little/no difference to power use in reality.
And sometimes I leave downloads to run overnight (or when out) on the NAS. So the Internet really needs to be on.
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One of the delights of the internet is that it's always with Broadband - If I wake up in the morning I check out the news and bits an pieces - also if I read in bed I like to check out Wiki and other references to what I'm reading. Router always on.
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The downside with a smartphone on 3G if the router is off... it will use more power when at home for Internet. And use your data allowance. And it will certainly be slower - my HTC One X can only achieve about 17Mbps download (10Mbps upload) on Wifi but it's better than 3G - and that's the phone limiting it not wifi or broadband.
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Do you turn your landline phone off, No? so why turn off your internet.
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I turn the router off at night as that is the only way my 15 year old son might go to sleep!
And he cant get porn on his phone 3g. ....
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>>And he cant get porn on his phone 3g
Oh yes he can.
Just depends how clever he is and how much effort he wants to put in. (pun not intended).
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>> Oh yes he can.
>>
>> Just depends how clever he is and how much effort he wants to put in.
>> (pun not intended).
>>
And you know that because...?
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He'll come out with some old pony about working for one of the infrastructure companies for the mobile networks, don't believe him - its just an excuse.
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You're just bitter that you never got that job at DEC.
As for the phone, you can use a proxy server, VPN, text disguised as images, images within other images disguising colour content, etc. etc. etc.
Sometimes its as simple as turning the guard off on the phone. Don't forget, there are people over the age of 18 who want to watch porn, are legitimately allowed to watch porn, and use a whole bunch of data to do so.
I can't imagine it'd be very interesting, but there you are.
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He is on PAYG and i remember trying to access something, not porn, but something age related, maybe it was a news item or something.
Anyway i got a warning that to validate for this use i had to register a credit card with T Mobile to prove age.
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You can't access the National Lottery website on a mobile either unless you get these sites enabled.
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rtj70 - unless your meter can measure power factor you'll always have an inaccurate measurement, especially at the lower end of the scale.
If you're with Southern Electric they're giving away Onzo monitors, which are decent bits of kit. Very accurate, and a two way link between the monitor and display so you never lose data. And you get the benefit of pretty graphs on the computer.
It's pretty good - you can see the surge when the fridge kicks in (about 3kW for one second), and if you're watching TV the monitor reflects whether it's a dark scene or a bright scene.
Other things that make a big difference - switching out halogen spotlights for LEDs. I've got 20 in my house; my parents have over 60 in theirs. This had the biggest impact on electricity consumption, and in fact I'm off to drill more holes in the bedroom ceiling to fit another 8. I reckon time-to-payback is a little under 8 months if replacing 50W halogens; a few years if replacing CFLs.
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>> rtj70 - unless your meter can measure power factor you'll always have an inaccurate
>> measurement, especially at the lower end of the scale.
I use an Owl meter to work out power usage. Might not be 100% accurate but I think it's fairly accurate.
I did calculate the savings for the bathroom if I used LED lights. They pay back would be years because of the cost and the fact the lights aren't on that much. Biggest culprit in using them is the step-son who insists on putting them on when it's daytime even! There's also a lower power fluorescent light behind the mirror which is what my wife and I tend to use.
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>> rtj70 - unless your meter can measure power factor you'll always have an inaccurate measurement,
>> especially at the lower end of the scale.
Doesn't need to be accurate, as long as you only ever use the one device its fine - its only comparative data you are after. Before trying to save and after.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 6 Jan 13 at 13:19
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To an extent, but the cheap one from British Gas reckoned the digital clock on the microwave used 80W, so take with a pinch of salt!
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>> To an extent, but the cheap one from British Gas reckoned the digital clock on
>> the microwave used 80W, so take with a pinch of salt!
Who said I was using a British Gas one. If I turn on a 60w light mine would go up by about 60w. Similar for other devices I know the power of. So fairly accurate. And as Z says, it's only really being used for comparison - what difference to power consumption with a device off and then on.
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>> >> To an extent, but the cheap one from British Gas reckoned the digital clock
>> on
>> >> the microwave used 80W, so take with a pinch of salt!
>>
>> Who said I was using a British Gas one. If I turn on a 60w
>> light mine would go up by about 60w. Similar for other devices I know the
>> power of. So fairly accurate. And as Z says, it's only really being used for
>> comparison - what difference to power consumption with a device off and then on.
>>
No one. Energy monitors are good at measuring things like light bulbs. Where they're not so good is measuring baseline current, for any number of reasons. Case in point: is your mains voltage exactly 230V? Measure it, you might be surprised.
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"Close, it was a 2001 vintage Hotpoint"
Interesting ......... I suspect that the faulty batch extended before 2005 rather than afterwards because my serial number came at the high end of the range, and a friend's Bosch purchased a few months after ours, wasn't affected.
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"The report looks at fires that were started by electricity or in electrical appliances and follows a fire in Neasden last year that was started by a chest freezer and which resulted in the deaths of six people. Fridges and freezers are of particular concern to LFB because they contain large amounts of plastic and highly flammable insulation, which can cause big fires that spread quickly. This insulation also produces highly toxic gases when involved in a fire.
According to the report the way fridges and freezers are built and the materials used to make them have changed over recent years to include more plastic. These changes have increased the risk to people if a fire starts because the highly flammable insulation is not separated from parts of the fridge or freezer where a fire can start. If this insulation catches light a fire can develop quickly.
The report goes on to say that when fires involving fridges or freezers in the UK are compared with those in the USA, where standards are different, it is more likely that people in the UK will be injured. According to LFB estimates, in the USA there is an average of one injury for every 25 fires involving fridges, freezers or fridge freezers. However, in the UK, according to figures from the Department for Communities and Local Government, one in every five fires in fridges or freezers result in someone being injured. In the UK, there is an average of 336 fires involving fridges or freezers each year, injuring 69 people.
Tougher safety standards mean that in the US, the flammable insulation in fridges and freezers is far less likely to be involved in a fire. However, UK safety standards mean the highly flammable insulation does not have to be protected by a fire proof material."
LFB Website
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Perhaps it's unsafe leaving all those live wires threaded throughout the house. A mouse might gnaw through one at any moment. Much safer to turn off the consumer unit when you are going out. Better still, ring up the electricity company and ask to be disconnected.
A neighbour once had his supply transformer explode without warning. It was on a pole about 20 yards from the house. I heard the bang from 1/2 mile away, and when I went round there was nothing to see except a smoking stump where the pole had been, and all the house windows broken. The transformer itself had apparently vaporised, or gone into orbit.
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We have a gizmo on each of our two TVs which turns off the power, using the TV's remote "off" switch, fully to stop stand-by current usage.
We could have put the SKY box, the DVD/VCR recorder, the DVD player and the router on it, too, but the hassle in starting up and resetting clocks etc. just is too much.
We have EON smart meters, which come with a very comprehensive energy monitor device. I used it for a while, but at the end put it in a cupboard out of the way. More trailing wires to hide and we use what we use, for comfort and facilities, in the house and no gazing at a consumption meter will change that.
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>> a smoking stump where the pole had been, and all the house windows broken. The transformer itself had apparently vaporised,
Any bits of singed animal or human to be found CP?
Didn't the mafia baddies in the black Dodge Charger in Bullitt end up flying through the air into a national grid-type transformer in a boring tiresome fireball? Perhaps one of your other neighbours...
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>> Any bits of singed animal or human to be found CP?
>>
No - apparently it went off spontaneously. The electricity board accepted full responsibilty, and even paid up for my phone, destroyed even at that distance by a shock voltage transmitted down the phone line.
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Hampshire supermarket destroyed by freezer fire www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-20925320
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Electric items left on at night. Fire risk - PhilW
