Drivers who use their headlights to warn other motorists of hidden speed traps may get pulled over themselves by police.
Officers laid in wait for drivers helping others dodge speeding fines during an operation in Faringdon and pulled over two motorists for flashing their headlights.
It is believed the specific operation could have been the first of its kind in Oxfordshire,
www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/10104624.Police_try_to_prevent_speed_trap__flashers_/
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One can only hope that the flashing motorists weren't intimidated.
'My bracelets/cuff/diamond-studded pornographic Rolex got caught in the stalk ossifer.'
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Really do wonder who prioritises police work and ..whether they surely have better things to do, like catching proper criminals
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Senior management idea I imagine - doubt if any officer who actually has to deal with the public would come up with it.
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Lets hope the police commissioners don't put the coal face coppers on a cut of the fines they dish out.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 13 Dec 12 at 18:45
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Pc Hannah Farrell said the act was an obstruction of a police officer.
She said: “This is problem we often have and it impedes the safety work we are carrying out.
Huh? If I flash my lights and the other driver slows down, I am doing far more safety work.
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Indeed Zero - my view exactly. If the police are trying to reduce/prevent crime and you and I warn people of the presence of a speed camera we are assisting in that work. I recall a long and acrimonious thread on that subject way while back, possibly on HJ site. A court hearing ruled that this action was indeed obstruction of the police The implication is that, whereever there is a speed trap there must be another car to apprehend the flashers - pathetic. The "I was preventing a crime" line cut no ice with the magistrates. link here.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9324722/Police-fine-motorists-who-flashed-headlights-near-speed-traps.html
Last edited by: Meldrew on Thu 13 Dec 12 at 19:00
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I flash my lights to warn other road users of my presence. There's no law to say I can't do that after a speed camera.
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Could a driver get done for doing a 'thumbs down' hand gesture instead?
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A flasher in Scotland was found not guilty. As the Police could not prove the oncoming car was speeding when flashed!
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>> A flasher in Scotland was found not guilty. As the Police could not prove the
>> oncoming car was speeding when flashed!
>>
That never worked for me the time I told the magistrate the girl wasn't speeding when I flashed.
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I guess that you can flash to your heart's content if the camera is wielded by a card-carrying member of the wooley party.
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So according to Police logic if you prevent a mugger mugging an old lady, you are guilty of obstruction! - and that must also apply to helping prevent any crime, so they may as well disband the "Crime-stoppers" `phone service.
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Speed trap flashers even the title sounds stupid.Big Brother.
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Pc Hannah Farrell said the act was an obstruction of a police officer.
She said: “This is problem we often have and it impedes the safety work we are carrying out.
So flashing another car entering a speed limit so that it slows people is dangerous ??? Explain !
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I guess their explanation might be that flashing a driver probably won't stop them from doing it again, whereas being caught and punished might - a sort of long term view?
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>> I guess their explanation might be that flashing a driver probably won't stop them from
>> doing it again, whereas being caught and punished might - a sort of long term
>> view?
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That's what I was thinking, you flash, they slow down then speed up after the trap. You don't flash they get caught, 3 points, then drive slower, or accumulate points and get banned.
It's a bit like you saying to a burglar, don't rob that house he's got a big dog, the robber moves on and robs a different house.
I'm afraid I have no tolerance for drivers who permanently drive around above the speed limit, I would like to send them all down a long straight road with an ice covered bend at the end overlooking a cliff.
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>> So flashing another car entering a speed limit so that it slows people is dangerous
>> ??? Explain !
>>
Well obviously if the car slows down it won't be speeding when it passes them and they won't get their 60 quid.
If they fail to show a profit on the speed trap, then they'll stop running speed traps...
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Why do the police sometimes put up signs warning that there is a police speed-check area ahead? Aren't they by this logic obstructing their own work?
It's not as if it was a general exhortation to obey speed limits, they are a specific warning of a trap ahead.
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I assume then that when my various in car technology tells me about an upcoming speed camera I'm obstructing the police? Perhaps I should citizen's arrest myself.
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I think the difference is that you are receiving a warning, which is not illegal, as opposed to giving one to others which apparently is
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Speed enforcement in Nort Wales didn't stop with the departure/toppling of Mad Mullah Brunstrom. Under the new Chief here, whose name escapes everyone, it goes on - but not on the public agenda because they manage it properly. All that pronouncment does it alienate people, mainly locals, from a job that goes on anyway. Good bit of PR when there are more worthy things that need to be talked about. Maybe if thay'd haver said "we'll be targetting mobile phone use" they would have touched a nerve with their public and communities.
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I suppose it's "obstruction of the police in the course of their duty'. It's nothing really to do with safety. The police are trying to catch speeding motorist and warning motorists is obstruction. Simple as that.
Just the same really as tipping off a shoplifter that the police have just entered the store. This would similarly stop some crime happening but it would surely be classed as obstruction
Not really sure why anyone want to warn others of a speed trap. None of their business really.
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I only warn fellow bikers - I see it as a road safety measure !
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One might want to warn them of a giant pothole, a car on its roof on a blind bend. Where does one draw the line.
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>> I suppose it's "obstruction of the police in the course of their duty'. It's nothing
>> really to do with safety. The police are trying to catch speeding motorist and warning
>> motorists is obstruction. Simple as that.
>>
>> Just the same really as tipping off a shoplifter that the police have just entered
>> the store. This would similarly stop some crime happening but it would surely be classed
>> as obstruction
Quite right - no argument there, so will someone slap that stupid woman PC and tell her she is talking bullshine when blathering on about safety and it more to do with nicking motorists?
I doubt it.
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In a way, it equates the flasher with the lookout on a bank robbery. You have to have lost the plot to do that.
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>> >>
>> Just the same really as tipping off a shoplifter that the police have just entered
>> the store.
>>
Not quite, because in that case you know or suspect he is a shoplifter, so has committed a crime.
The analogy would be if you tipped off someone who was not a shoplifter, just in case there was a possibility that he might be thinking of becoming one. A bit like the store displaying a sign "Shoplifting is theft. We prosecute thieves".
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A bit like the store displaying a sign "Shoplifting is theft. We prosecute thieves".
Not really. The sign (apart from being inaccurate in part in that the CPS prosecute thieves not shops) is just a statement and is passive. Obstruction has to have the element of being wilful.
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/public_justice_offences_incorporating_the_charging_standard/#a26
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So if I put up a sign before a speed trap reading "Speeding is illegal. The police prosecute speeders" it would not be interfering with the police in the execution of their duty?
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>> So if I put up a sign before a speed trap reading "Speeding is illegal.
>> The police prosecute speeders" it would not be interfering with the police in the execution
>> of their duty?
I'm not a lawyer but I would say not if the sign was permanent. Indeed it might be regarded by some as laudable
If you erected such a sign only when a speed-trap was present with the intention of advising motorists of its presence then I think that would be "wilful obstruction'
As in so many offences its the intention that counts.
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It's moot. The law only allows for the flashing of lights to warn other road users of your presence. The same as a horn. This is the only lawful defence one can put forward. Forget the moral arguments. If the busted my ass I would tell them I was warning the person in front of my presence as they slowed suddenly without looking in their mirrors or signalling.
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Aren't we talking about people coming toward us? In which case it would be reasonable to flash if you thought they were drifting towards the wrong side of the road, as people often do when they are approaching a concealed plod with a radar gun.
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There are a number of situations, quite common on rural roads, where it seems eminently sensible to use flashers or horn to warn, not of one's own presence, but of the presence of a danger that the oncoming driver needs to be aware of:
Flood
Sheep or cattle loose on road
Vehicle broken down on blind bend
Tanker, farm vehicle, etc parked while carrying out necessary action
Tree across road, restricting passageway.
The use of horn, at least, as a general warning appears to be sanctioned in the section otherwise prohibiting use when stationary. The intention surely cannot have been to permit warning someone of a danger if you are stationary, but not if you are moving. The danger faced by another vehicle does not necessarily have any relevance to whether the warner is himself moving or not.
So, to return to the thread point, it would appear to be legitimate to warn someone going the wrong way down a wrong way street because he might be creating a danger, but not because he was merely infringing a traffic law for which he might be prosecuted if caught.
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This is farcical so if you are warning somebody that there is a copper with a speedcamara you be arrested.Make up any story the law has to prove it your word against there word.
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Someone coming the other way flashed me in Spain a few years ago. As there was no obvious reason I lifted off and lost about 10mph to bring me close to the (rather low) posted limit.
Just over the brow of the hill, there they were... looking a bit disappointed. May the virtuous flasher be spared a couple of million years of Purgatory!
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Police try to prevent speed trap 'flashers' - Armel Coussine
