Today I morning I pulled the stalk for screen wash (after car was running over half an hour) but washer didn't work (but wiper worked causing smear on screen).
I tried after 15 minutes and still no water. Ambient temp was -4 C.
Tried again during lunch time - worked fine (outside temp 2 C).
So why it didn't work even when engine was hot?
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Jet is in a cool/cold airflow while car is moving. Only when stationary does heat from engine warm the scuttle area.
I had same issue last winter. One jet blocked from before M1/J16 until I stopped at Woodall services. Still subzero but mix of convection from engine and parking in sunshine cleared it in time it took to drink a costa coffee.
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No car should be without an empty washing up liquid bottle filled with clean water for those circumstances.
If you're agile it can be squirted on while driving;)
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Wed 12 Dec 12 at 15:00
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Can you have an empty bottle filled with water?? ;-)
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Course you can Dev, there's no point in trying to fill a full one, is there.
Pat
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LIDL sells screen washer fluid which is good for -60C (yes sixty) if used neat, it works fine here diluted so it should be OK for the balmy South. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 12 Dec 12 at 15:29
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Any standard screen wash works fine up to -10 C if not more.
It the nozzle which is frozen not the screen wash.
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Every year I promise to buy heated washer jets for my car. The wiring is there already so a doddle to fit. Then the weather improves and I forget - until the following year when they freeze again!!
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You'll only worry about the battery drain they'll cause.
;>)
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The main reason for washers to remain frozen ,is that car makers no longer put the screenwash reservoir in the engine bay.So no heat is absorbed.They are usually hidden away in the wing area or behind the front bumpers where they just get colder as you drive along due to wind chill.hth
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"where they just get colder as you drive along due to wind chill"
not sure that's right - surely the water in the washer bottle will stay at the outside air temperature however fast you are travelling?
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>> "where they just get colder as you drive along due to wind chill"
>>
>> not sure that's right - surely the water in the washer bottle will stay at
>> the outside air temperature however fast you are travel
Correct.Only humans and animals experience wind chill.Its a man made reference to how cold you FEEL rather than how cold it actually is.Objects don't feel so there-fore no wind chill!
Simples!!
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I use tons of washer anti-freeze in our cars since my daughter's SEAT Ibiza popped the rear washer hose in THREE places one winter. I'm sure it was easier to build the car with all those connectors but it was an utter nightmare to get to, and re-connect, them all.
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My car has heated washer jets, great but it doesn't stop the screen wash freezing when it hits the screen and smearing everywhere.
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>> >> "where they just get colder as you drive along due to wind chill"
>> >>
>> >> not sure that's right - surely the water in the washer bottle will stay
>> at
>> >> the outside air temperature however fast you are travel
>>
>> Correct.Only humans and animals experience wind chill.Its a man made reference to how cold you
>> FEEL rather than how cold it actually is.Objects don't feel so there-fore no wind chill!
>>
>> Simples!!
Not SIMPLES. Sure, feeling colder does not exist in inanimate objects, but the cooling effect of air movement does exist. Its how the radiator in your car works.
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It isn't the movement of the air that cools though. It is the resulting continuous supply of cooler air.
But there might be a wind-chill equivalent with wet nozzles: the movement of air would promote rapid evaporation of residual water which does cause cooling.
:o}
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>> >> >> the cooling effect
>> of air movement does exist. Its how the radiator in your car works.
>>
True, but I think that is simply conduction to a quickly replenishing supply of cooler air.
There are some situations using a "radiator" consisting of a trickling sheet of falling water, not contained inside a matrix, presumably because there is then a double cooling effect, of both conduction and evaporation.
Standing one of those old milk bottle coolers in a draught?
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Only humans and animals experience wind chill.Its a man made reference to how cold you FEEL rather than how cold it actually is.Objects don't feel so therefore no wind chill!
...
Not SIMPLES. Sure, feeling colder does not exist in inanimate objects, but the cooling effect of air movement does exist.
I think you're both wrong. One inanimate object that does experience wind chill is a wet-bulb thermometer, which is used to measure...
wind chill!
The key principle is latent heat of vaporization: a moist surface - like human skin - will lose heat faster than a dry one in air of the same temperature because water takes it away as it evaporates. That's how sweating works, and why the wet thermometer shows a lower reading than the dry one, the difference being the wind chill. The faster the wind, the greater the chill because the damp air is constantly being replaced with dry, maintaining the differential and the rate of evaporation.
Z's 'effect of air movement' is to do with maintaining a differential in temperature, which contributes a little to wind chill but not to anything like the same extent.
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>> You'll only worry about the battery drain they'll cause. ;>)
>>
Not if they are wired into my heater door mirrors / HRW circuit which have a timer on them :-)))
I have no idea what strength of deicer is in my bottle but it has worked OK today.
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ISTR that Halfords ready mix (who buys that anyway?) is only good to -5C according to the label I use their concentrate mixed 50/50.
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My car has heated washers and the screenwash tank is in the engine bay. But the other week when it was quite cold outside the screen had frozen a bit. Tried the washers and the mix was not frozen and the washers worked.... and when it hit the windscreen some of it froze.
I miss a heated windscreen on days like today. I had spec'd one on the Passat CC but the order was messed up and I decided not to make them reorder and wait months for a new car. So got a reduction in monthly charge instead.
By way of a thread drift... how many have pumped their tyres up to take into account the lower temperatures at this time of year?
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>> By way of a thread drift... how many have pumped their tyres up to take
>> into account the lower temperatures at this time of year?
I pumped mine up to recommended pressure, but not to compensate. Don't the tyres warm up from friction after a few miles anyway?
Another slight thread drift. Last year the linkages on my old style wipers froze - I should have de-iced them before I drove off but didn't realise before it was too late. Suffice to say that the blades did next to nothing to clear the screen.
Are the modern one piece blades any better or do they still ice up?
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80% mix of good quality screen wash to water and they don't freeze up, no need for heated washers.
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>> 80% mix of good quality screen wash to water and they don't freeze up, no
>> need for heated washers.
>>
50 / 50 works for me and thats in the frozen wastes of Scotland. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 12 Dec 12 at 21:57
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>> but the cooling effect of air movement does exist. Its how the radiator in your car works.
Only because your car radiator temperature is higher than that of the outside air Z. The washer fluid will be at ambient temp, therefore no further lowering of its temperature can take place due to "the cooling effect of air movement".
To demonstrate, drive a lorry with washer fluid pipes clipped to the wiper arms on a journey where the temperature varies from +1°C to -2°C and back a couple of times. At temperatures above 0°C the washers work, at -1°C they don't. Some other clown filled them up with water hence the continual freezing, but the 56mph wind doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Simples :)
>> how many have pumped their tyres up to take into account the lower temperatures
Would you not set them at a lower pressure to take into account the lower temperatures?? The recommended pressures are for cold tyres at 20°C; cold tyres at 0°C will be a couple of psi lower.
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>> >> but the cooling effect of air movement does exist. Its how the radiator in
>> your car works.
>>
>> Only because your car radiator temperature is higher than that of the outside air Z.
>> The washer fluid will be at ambient temp, therefore no further lowering of its temperature
>> can take place due to "the cooling effect of air movement".
No it wont, it will be at an increased temperature due to radiated heat from the engine. Even if its not in the engine bay. Certainly applies to the washer jets.
The answer of course is to have screenwash effective to below the ambient temp, mine is effective down to -15
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We did all this two years ago:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=3799
The general consensus was, even though you add alcohol to your screenwash tank to lower the freezing point of the solution, the alcohol part of the fluid at the washer nozzles evaporates when not flowing, leaving only water/detergent which of course freezes at the nozzle tips.
>> it will be at an increased temperature due to radiated heat from the engine
Maybe, but not enough to make a difference. The evaporating alcohol is a far more significant factor. Tip your boiled kettle on the washer jets for a bit to thaw out the first inch or so and then use the washers little and often.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Wed 12 Dec 12 at 21:45
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"By way of a thread drift... how many have pumped their tyres up to take into account the lower temperatures at this time of year?"
Me :)
Only because I've got a real slow puncture in a rear one and thought I might as well do the lot. The rest were all about 4 PSI down.
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Mine dropped pressure by about 3psi when the temperatures dropped (I have tyre pressure monitoring option). They tyres also felt slightly different when manoeuvring. All feels fine now.
But when you drive a few miles they are up to 1psi over target pressure.... so on a motorway run they will be higher again. Might take out about 1psi.
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>>
>> Only because I've got a real slow puncture in a rear one...........
I once had a slow air loss after a puncture repair, I eventually discovered that a duff valve core had been fitted. :-(
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>> Any standard screen wash works fine up to -10 C if not more.
>>
>> It the nozzle which is frozen not the screen wash.
>>
>>
If the nozzle's full of stuff which does not freeze, it does not freeze.
Mine'll happily drill their way through a covering of snow or ice to reach the screen when filled with winter wash, but'll freeze solid in seconds when not.
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Perhaps surprisingly, the soapy stuff you can get from VAG dealers' parts depts. is not only quite cheap but never seems to freeze, either in the nozzle or on the screen.
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The LIDL stuff is good for -64˚c used neat but is £5.99/5 litres this year, was £4.99 last year and £3.99 the year before. Robbing dogs.
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>> The soapy stuff you can get from VAG dealers' parts depts. is not only quite cheap but never seems to freeze
That's the one formulated for fan-type washer jets - no salt in it which can crystallise and block the fan jets in normal use.
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I'm not bothered about the freezing - that's easy to clear or prevent.
What annoys me about washers is the way the jets perpetually block up with little specks of dirt or something generated in the washer bottle. I've tried flushing out the whole system, refilling with fresh water/screenwash, but it still comes back. It's as if there is some kind of organism that lives in screenwasher, a bit like diesel bug.
Larger jets and a more powerful pump would help. The Volvo has tiny holes that need a pin to clear which often snaps off when I try to angle the little eye-balls. By contrast the Landrover has an after-market set-up which makes a noise like a pressure washer and has a jet like a fire hose.
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>> What annoys me about washers is the way the jets perpetually block up with little
>> specks of dirt or something generated in the washer bottle.
I've never had the jets block on the Vectra. The filter in the washer bottle however gets clogged up with gunk every now again. Washer bottle is behind the front bumper, and to access it you have to peel back part of the inner wheel arch liner to be able to clean it.
Generally clearing the jets with a pin results in just pushing the crud back into the system for it to come back and block the jets again.
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>> I'm not bothered about the freezing - that's easy to clear or prevent.
>>
>> What annoys me about washers is the way the jets perpetually block up with little
>> specks of dirt or something generated in the washer bottle. I've tried flushing out the
>> whole system, refilling with fresh water/screenwash, but it still comes back. It's as if there
>> is some kind of organism that lives in screenwasher, a bit like diesel bug.
>>
You can get bugs growing in screenwash, a strong dose of Milton baby bottle steriliser will fix it.
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>> You can get bugs growing in screenwash, a strong dose of Milton baby bottle steriliser
>> will fix it.
The MoL's Astra used to suffer from that. Filter blocked with a gunk resembling wet tissue paper. Never really cured it even with Bruclens which usually shifts anything.
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>> You can get bugs growing in screenwash, a strong dose of Milton baby bottle steriliser
>> will fix it.
Good tip. We use that in the caravan water system.
I'm punctilious now about using proper screenwash stuff, clean containers and not getting muck in there and don't have any problems with blockages now, other than jet freezing. I've used Holts concentrate bought in 5 litre containers for at least 15 years, (10% mix in summer, 20-25% in winter) and never had any black bits.
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>> I've used Holts concentrate bought in 5 litre containers for at least 15 years
>>
Sticking to one type is a good idea, the alternative is to drain and flush before changing. I once made the mistake of "mixing 'n matching" on a Metro I owned and the whole lot set like jelly in the pipes!
Getting the pipework to the rear one clear was an interesting exercise.
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At work we're advised to buy 5-litre bottles of readymix screenwash and hang the expense. I took them at their word last week and sloshed £9.98's worth of motorway service-station readymix in the lorry reservoir, which is on the front just below the windscreen and feeds hoses clipped along the wiper arms.
It was -7°C this morning, and the washers worked straightaway :)
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