I know this topic has been partially covered before, but I'm interested in the specifics here.
Tomorrow evening I'm taking a long drive from swampy Worcestershire to the desolate east coast of Scotland.
OK, so, my current tax disc expires at midnight, the new one doesn't come into force until Saturday morning. I fully expect that at 00:00 I will be on a motorway still heading north. I can't legally stop on the motorway (for obvious reasons), so pulling up exactly midnight to change them over is out of the question. Therefore, it seems that I should display both old the disc and the new one.
However, I've heard that it may be an offence to display the new one before it comes into force. i.e. damned if I do, etc, etc...
Clearly I will display both anyway, but having a pedantic streak, I'm wondering what the actual legal situation is...
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I suppose that if you were to do it by the book, you would pull into a happy chef or the equivalent at around 11.55pm, wait in the car park or buy some of their wonderful produce, swap the old disc for the new at midnight, then continue on your merry way. Don't see how anyone could object to that.
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Interesting approach, but that means anticipating when you're at the last services before midnight and stopping then. Such stops are few and far between in those parts!
Plus I'm far too impatient to wait around for midnight! :)
I'd still like to know what the official position is, can't make head nor tail of it from DVLA.
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I just shove me new disc in the holder on the day I get it....I don't think anyone from Johnny Law will give a toss.
Ted
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The official position is that you will never see Plod or a cameravan at midnight, so stop worrying and enjoy the drive:)
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 16:27
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>> However, I've heard that it may be an offence to display the new one before
>> it comes into force. i.e. damned if I do, etc, etc...
>>
Where on your new disc does it say when it comes into force? Answer: it doesn't. Just display the new disc as soon as you get it, there will be no offence.
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Just change it when you have the chance.
ANPR works on your number plate and is interested in evasion not transient failure to display.
Is there the remotest chance of a sharp eyed Copper seeing it AND STOPPING YOU in the dead of night. I just don't think so.
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It says 12 months with Month of expiry, so I guess 12 months and 1 day is not valid.
In practise the old bill rely on the DVLA check, not the tax disk. The disk is just a "pull me" beacon.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 16:31
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One of our cars has had it's new ( December) disc on it for a week.
Also, I once went through Belfast port security ( well twice in the same week actually ) full police search etc both ways with no tax disc at all and it wasn't questioned. My car had been broken into the week before and the robbers had taken the tax disc without me having noticed. It was fully six weeks before I did. Applied for a duplicate and nothing was said.
I think they're fine with it nowadays because it's all on a database.
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There's some leeway if you forget to tax a car isn't there too - a couple of days late and you don't automatically get done.
The ANPR check is on number plate and up until midnight the old tax disk will be valid and you are okay. After midnight the new tax disk is valid and again you're covered.
Before I went on holiday in September my tax disk was coming up for renewal. My concern would be it didn't come before I went away. The lease company said it probably would arrive in time but if it didn't to leave a note. They had suggested sticking it in the garage but at the new house I don't think it will fit... and the garage has stuff waiting for a visit to the tip in it.
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What do you normally do - rush out to your car an midnight and change the tax disc?
1 You should only display the current tax disc.
2 If you applied on line you have 5 days period of grace at the beginning of the month before needing to display the disc
3 Nobody ever gets charged with "Failure to Display" if your car shows up as being taxed on the ANPR system
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>> What do you normally do - rush out to your car an midnight and change
>> the tax disc?
No, but then my car is on my private drive, so I just change the disc the evening before.
Last edited by: oilburner on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 16:42
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not worried about it. In the past I've just put the new one in a day or so before it starts, but then technically it hasn't come into force until the old one expires...
Yes, I know they'll never stop me, let alone see it - I mentally count the number of marked traffic cars on the 6-7 hour journey, and rarely see more than 1 or 2, and they're travelling in the opposite direction.
However, I still wonder what it is the DVLA, in their own special bureaucratic way, imagines is the legally correct approach?
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>> I know this topic has been partially covered before, but I'm interested in the specifics
>> here.
>>
You are creating a problem where none exists. No wonder people get depressed. ;-)
Just display the old one for up to five days after expiry:
"change in legislation from 1 September 2008 will provide for a five-day period of grace from the requirement to display a tax disc .... . This will apply to the first 5 working days of the month in which the disc commences and will only apply where the vehicle is continuously licensed."
Last edited by: John H on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 16:46
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>>
>> You are creating a problem where none exists. No wonder people get depressed. ;-)
>>
Not at all, I'm honestly not fretting about it, I just have a very curious mind. That's why I spend my time thinking about stuff like this instead of talking about football or the size of a page 3 model's assets, like a normal bloke should. :)
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You'll do for me oilburner!
I can talk to you, but I struggle with Page 3 assets and football :)
Pat
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>> You'll do for me oilburner!
>>
>> I can talk to you, but I struggle with Page 3 assets and football :)
>>
Thanks Pat! :D
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My butler sits in the car at 11:45 and on the stroke of midnight swaps the old disc with the new.
I give him an hour off on Christmas day to make up for it (without pay, of course).
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Pardon a splutter here but why on earth would anyone sane not do as Ted does and swap the discs over as soon as the new one arrives? If you buy a car in the last few days of a month the dealer can tax it to the end of that month the following year - i.e. for twelve months and, say, four days.
When a replacement disc arrives in the post, is there a note warning me not to display it until the old one has expired? I don't think so, but even if there is - and even though I have a bit of a compulsive, them's-the-rules streak - I can't imagine I'd do anything different.
Come on, OB, life really is too short for that!
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>> buy a car in the last few days of a month the dealer can tax
>> it to the end of that month the following year - i.e. for twelve months
>> and, say, four days.
>>
Are you sure? Recent experience was dealer only able to do 11 months plus few remaining days of then current month.
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>> Are you sure? Recent experience was dealer only able to do 11 months plus few remaining days of then current month.
Are well all talking about brand new unregistered cars or second hand/preregistered? For new I think you do get 12 months plus those extra days.
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>>..... it seems that I should display both old the disc and the new one.
>>However, I've heard that it may be an offence to display the new one before it comes into force. i.e. damned if I do, etc, etc...
>>Clearly I will display both anyway, but having a pedantic streak, I'm wondering what the actual legal situation is...
I, like you, take a chance and pop the new one on the screen with a bit of sellotape until I rember to swop the new one into its holder.
It should deter any traffic warden type that happens on the situation on "the desolate east coast of Scotland."
I too am curious on the legal situation.
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Not entirely sure, John. It did happen for me in 1989 - on this date, in fact - but the system may be different now. I collected the LEC on 27 April and it's taxed until 31 March; I'd thought that was because I'd forgotten to ask for the extra days but it may be because it's no longer possible.
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>> Not entirely sure, John. It did happen for me in 1989 - on this date,
>> in fact - but the system may be different now. I collected the LEC on
>> 27 April and it's taxed until 31 March; I'd thought that was because I'd forgotten
>> to ask for the extra days but it may be because it's no longer possible.
>>
Thanks.
>> Are well all talking about brand new unregistered cars or second hand/preregistered? >>
In reply to RTJ, the recent experience I alluded to was regarding a 2nd hand car.
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Mine too, John; but the 1989 car was new, so RTJ may be right about the distinction.
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>> I too am curious on the legal situation.
>>
>>
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/33
(1)
A person is guilty of an offence if—
(a)
he uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle in respect of which vehicle excise duty is chargeable, and
(b)
there is not fixed to and exhibited on the vehicle in the manner prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State a licence for, or in respect of, the vehicle which is for the time being in force.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2742/contents/made#6
(3) Each such licence shall be fixed to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect the licence from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed.
(4) The licence shall be exhibited on the vehicle—
(c)
in the case of any vehicle fitted with a glass windscreen in front of the driver extending across the vehicle to its near side, on or adjacent to the near side of the windscreen;
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>>I'm wondering what the actual legal situation is...
You must change them over at midnight. But you knew that.
But as you indicate, there's law breaking or danger involved one way or another. Hey, this reckless life we lead!
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Reasons not to worry about this.
1. Tax disc is now largely irrelevant - the car is taxed on PNC database - DVLA won't let the Police enforce for 28 days after the expiry of the old one.
2. Fail to Display is/was a "verbal warning" under ACPO guidelines.
Drive safely and don't worry about it - honest.
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>> Reasons not to worry about this.
>>
>> 1. Tax disc is now largely irrelevant - the car is taxed on PNC database
>> - DVLA won't let the Police enforce for 28 days after the expiry of the
>> old one.
>>
>> 2. Fail to Display is/was a "verbal warning" under ACPO guidelines.
>>
>> Drive safely and don't worry about it - honest.
>>
plenty of cases on car legal forums about jobsworths giving FPNs for not displaying current tax disc.
eg. forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t50067.html
Last edited by: John H on Thu 29 Nov 12 at 18:40
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>> plenty of cases on car legal forums about jobsworths giving FPNs for not displaying current
>> tax disc.
>> eg. forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t50067.html
>>
That one was in Scotland which might just make a difference. Failure to display is certainly a police matter and not one for Council attendants. One of the London Boroughs tried to enforce in such a way and gave up after losing before first adjudicator, reviewing senior adjudicator and the Administrative Court.
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>> One of our cars has had it's new ( December) disc on it for a week.
I noticed a purple 30/11/13 disc on a car next to me in a queue yesterday.
The new cars I deliver never have the "plus a few days" tax, although I believe that service is still available for a fee. I did one on Tuesday (27th Nov) and it came with a tax disc stamped on 27/11/12 and valid until 31/10/13, i.e. 11.1 months for the price of 12.
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I would imagine a lorry driver would do it thusly:
Heat up tinned ready meal on Camping Gaz stove. Light fag. Switch on kettle, and make cup of boiling hot tea in chipped mug. Balance tea on dash. Switch on DVD. Put out fag, light another. Serve now heated dinner on plate, and begin to eat off lap. Once all hot liquids/solids/burning weed sticks are in place, check time. 00.00. Lean over and pick up new tax disc from under passenger seat, remove old tax disc and place new disc in holder. Stop truck and remove Smart car from grille, throw remains of driver in to hedge. Continue to destination.
;-)
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That's pretty much spot on Alanovic:)
Pat
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They have changed the wording on the disc, I noticed recently. It used to say something like "valid from..." , but now it has "Issue date" which may be up to a month in advance.
I take that to mean that as long as you already have VED valid up to the end of the month, you can display the new disc (alone) before that date.
If that's not what it means there would be no point in introducing the concept of issue date.
In other words, it a similar change to one card companies introduced a few years ago. Cards similarly used to expire at midnight, but now I notice my new card has a month's overlap, so as soon as it arrives I can snip the old one and move onto the new.
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>> I take that to mean that as long as you already have VED valid up
>> to the end of the month, you can display the new disc (alone) before that
>> date.
>> If that's not what it means there would be no point in introducing the concept
>> of issue date.
Could be right there Cliff. It would be nice if the DVLA could be clearer on such issues.
That does make some kind of sense though.
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>> That one was in Scotland which might just make a difference. Failure to display is
>> certainly a police matter and not one for Council attendants. One of the London Boroughs
>> tried to enforce in such a way and gave up after losing before first adjudicator,
>> reviewing senior adjudicator and the Administrative Court.
>>
The example linked to was a FPN issued by Police.
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>> The example linked to was a FPN issued by Police.
>>
I know that. The poster's reference to jobsworth's put me in mind of LA activity and it seemed worth a mention that they have no powers re untaxed vehicles - except to co-operate in a reporting scheme.
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I display my new tax disc as soon as I receive it.
As long as DVLA computer shows tax is not due, there should not be any problem.
Last edited by: movilogo on Fri 30 Nov 12 at 11:41
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Have always put the new disc in when I get it, even before ANPR.
Never had a problem.
You can't get the new one unless you have an old one and the enforcement people know that.
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I'm another one who puts in the new tax disc as soon as get it - otherwise I'm likely to leave it on the window sill and forgot about it altogether.
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If you were brought to Court, the case would not pass the "mischief test" or "literal test".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischief_rule
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literal_rule
Last edited by: sooty tailpipes on Mon 3 Dec 12 at 10:30
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>> You can't get the new one unless you have an old one
??
I thought you just went down to the Post Office / local DVLA office with the relevant forms.
How else are people who have just bought an untaxed car supposed to do it then?
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>> >> You can't get the new one unless you have an old one
>>
>> ??
>>
>> I thought you just went down to the Post Office / local DVLA office with
>> the relevant forms.
>>
>> How else are people who have just bought an untaxed car supposed to do it
>> then?
>>
Sorry what I should have said is that you can ONLY get a future dated tax disc (starts other than the first day of the current month) if you have a current tax disc.
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Well I made it without having my collar felt, must have been lucky that day. ;)
Thanks for the replies everyone, looks like their is no definitive answer, other than to resort to common sense.
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>> Well I made it without having my collar felt, must have been lucky that day.
I have it on good authority that the summons is in the post.
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They can save money and bundle them with the speeding tickets I picked up. :)
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Perhaps motorists should keep their tax discs in their wallets and flash them reluctantly for half a second when requested to do so by a policeman.
That's what plainclothes fuzz do when they want to talk to you, just flash something that might as well be a Tesco loyalty card so far as the trembling citizen can tell. Fair's fair innit?
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Or use psychic paper like Doctor Who?
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Oh for the days when you could just stick a Guinness label on the windscreen till you could afford the disc.
A mate once got nicked coming off his shift when the docks police found him displaying the tax disc he'd borrowed from a mobile crane.
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Do any of the bikers on here display a tax disc?
All the ones I know keep it in their wallet, to show if required, to prevent it getting pinched.
Pat
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"All the ones I know keep it in their wallet, to show if required, to prevent it getting pinched."
I'd be tempted to do the same, these days; but what happens if you leave the bike parked at the side of the road - would you be nicked, or would the law be able to quickly check the database?
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I have mine in a reasonably secure, waterproof holder down on the front hub. I don't see a problem if it's nicked, I'd just report it to the Bill to make sure it's logged with a crime number then ride it home.
ANPR would show it taxed. I probably wouldn't even notice it had gone, in reality, until I next cleaned the bike.
Ted
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I thought most nowadays put a photocopy on the 'bike and carried the real on them.
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>> Do any of the bikers on here display a tax disc?
Yes....
but mine is tucked up under its blanket in the garage 99% of the year, and the 1% of the time it sees daylight, I am usually right next to it while its being MOT'd.
However, if I were to use it on a daily basis rather than for emergency transport, then I'd scan and print a copy of the tax disc and put that on display instead and keep the orginal under the seat or in the topbox for safe keeping, should I get asked to produce it.
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Yes
Also very protective of my machines.
Real pain at tax disc change time. They have one of those jobbies with the six little nuts and bolts around the circumference. Only noticed a very slight moisture creep over the year.
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Display of tax disc - corax
