www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19958764
Tragic, but it beggars belief that two highly qualified doctors with young kids in the house didn't have a working smoke alarm*. The fire brigade will fit them for free, for crying out loud.
So if they're fitted, test them, and if not, get one. You don't want to be in the situation this poor chap is in.
* So not specifically mentioned, but to paraphrase from a retired Chief Fire Inspector (or whatever the rank is): "I've never yet come across a death that couldn't have been prevented if smoke alarms were fitted".
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Ours are tested every meal time....good point though. We have heat sensors in the kitchen and two linked smokes, all mains powered with battery back ups. Even the dogs know the RV points by now.
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Ours are battery powered and there's three of them. One had a battery that needed replacing earlier in the year... of course I had to ladders that could reach it on the bit of the ceiling to which it is attached.... beep it went all night! Bought new ladders and sorted it the next morning*
* I had ladders that would have done the job but lent them to the buyer of our old house and never got around to asking for them back. After two years it seemed inappropriate to ask for them back.
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>> One had a battery that needed replacing earlier in the year...
>>.... beep it went all night!
>>
>>Bought new ladders and sorted it the next morning*
>>
The "battery is dead " beep is a good reminder .
I often wondered how long it would go for.
I had a minor concern that it might start beeping just after we went on holiday and had totally died by the time we returned.
Testing the alarm was not on our check list on our return,
Now I have a better idea of the time the beep rwill go on for.:_))
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-19921055beebnde.
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Ours were tested quite thoroughly eight weeks ago;
s75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/gnastygnome/House%20fire%2028-8-12/
Please to say they weren't needed, we were awake at the time, and they did work.
Only irritation is that frying chips in the kitchen can set it off, and Mrs HM being of limited stature cannot reach the alarm to re-set it.
I too am at a loss to know why such a relatively modern property apparently has no smoke alarms.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Tue 16 Oct 12 at 18:16
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>> Mrs HM being of limited stature cannot reach the alarm to re-set it.
Depending on alarm type, doesn't removing the smoke and waving something like a towel under the detector not stop it sounding?
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>> >> Mrs HM being of limited stature cannot reach the alarm to re-set it.
>>
>> Depending on alarm type, doesn't removing the smoke and waving something like a towel under
>> the detector not stop it sounding?
>>
Yes.
Eventually,
We have three and they self test and flash red every 2 mins.. Keep two spare batteries...
Plus a Carbon monoxide test in kitchen for added safety.
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>> >> Mrs HM being of limited stature cannot reach the alarm to re-set it.
>>
>> Depending on alarm type, doesn't removing the smoke and waving something like a towel under
>> the detector not stop it sounding?
>>
Or keeping a "reset stick" nearby as an arm extender.
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>> Or keeping a "reset stick" nearby as an arm extender.
>>
That or a husband summoner. :)
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Bloomin' 'eck HM - what caused that ? Everyone alright...
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I've only just looked at the photos too! Blimey. I hope all are okay!
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Blimey I was so shocked I forgot to ask after the bikes !
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Both of us fine thanks, cats too. My 1200 Sportster suffered 3K worth of cosmetic damage, not a mile off being written off; Mrs HM's Kawasaki 250 has been written off and she's being paid out. In fact that was sorted today which is creditably quick; kudoes to Groupama and Carole Nash.
The oil boiler exploded. By great good fortune i was not stood next to it when it went off. I had returned from a week in Yorkshire on the Tuesday morning to find a spring required to fix my lawnmower had arrived. That evening I decided to go and sort it; went into lounge to ask wife to make me a tea whilst I did so, only to find her movements severly hampered by a large fat ginger cat on her lap.
Deciding to make me own tea, I went to the kitchen, turned the hot tap on to fill the kettle, and there was an almighty bang and cloud of grey smoke from the balance flue. Muttering imprecations at the boiler engineer, i turned the tap off and tried again. An even bigger explosion blew the end grille off the flue and the baffles halfway out.
At this point I decided to ring the boiler engineer and went upstairs to get the number. No reply, he's abroad. Mrs HM suggested I go to the garage, turn the boiler off, and we'd sort it in the morning. At this point I went outside and saw black smoke coming fom the eaves of the garage; shouted to wifey to ring 999 and get out.
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Cripes HM you were lucky. I sort of guessed it was boiler related - It's made me re-think my garage before the bikes hibernate soon...I notice we have an external isolator lever for the fuel tank. When you "learn" a new house it was one of the things I noticed. I'll show these pictures to my plumber when he comes to service the boiler next week - he's a biker as well. Sort of focus his mind !
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Part 2
This is when all that training that I did back in the late 1970's (whilst the country's paid firemen were all sitting round braziers) kicked in. I opened the garage door, taking care to keep the door twixt meself and the fire; peeped round, saw blaze was centred round the boiler at the far end. Small 1kg powder extinguisher hangs by door, took that, hit base of fire; went outside, grabbed garden hose, played water on to floor around fire to keep it under control. Fire brigade arrive within 6 mins of call, luckily they were on a training run at B&Q just down the road. They took over, job sorted.
As mentioned earlier it could've been worse; had I gone to the garage and wifey filled the kettle, my backside would've been right next to the boiler when it went off. As it is, we're looking at about 40K worth of repairs, which are scheduled to start, appropriately, on 5th november.
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Mmmm Fire Extinguisher. Had one in my old garage....electrics, paints, bikes x3....may be worth a thought.
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Small 1kg is only just enough for a very tiny fire. I'm going for a bigger one once the rebuild's done. It certainly saved my Sportster form total wreck according to the fire chief.
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>Small 1kg is only just enough for a very tiny fire.
Just bought a new 2Kg 13A, 89B, C rated unit for £26 incl. delivery from Amazon. The old one is about 10yrs old and has been sent for recharging.
>Small 1kg powder extinguisher hangs by door, took that, hit base of fire;
I wonder how many people would know how to use one correctly, and more importantly, know when to just leg it.
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HM you are lucky getting the work started so quickly! Our house repairs started six months to the day after the fire!!
As an aside, what makes a boiler explode??
When we got our new boiler installed it is linked to some fancy hot water tank system that is apparently under very high pressures!
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Good point Fusty Ferrett.We've got three smoke alarms living room, kitchen, staircase landing.
Also on the landing a fire escape route.Its not always the fire what kills but smoke inhalation.
Tragic incident the doctor and his family.I was part of the fire fighting team at BP dealing with chemical fires.We had a couple of fires,transferpumps overheating which can soon spread.
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I hate smoke alarms. Their batteries run out and they start to chirp all day and all night. They go off when you open the oven or make toast or fry some bacon unless you remember to put the extractor fan on. The ones in this house are interconnected so you can be deafened by the damn things just because someone has made some toast at the other end of the house. I hate them.
I'm not going to ignite the gaff anyway. They aren't necessary unless you live in a junkies' refuge.
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>> I hate smoke alarms. Their batteries run out and they start to chirp all day
>> and all night. They go off when you open the oven or make toast or
>> fry some bacon unless you remember to put the extractor fan on. The ones in
>> this house are interconnected so you can be deafened by the damn things just because
>> someone has made some toast at the other end of the house. I hate them.
>>
>>
>> I'm not going to ignite the gaff anyway. They aren't necessary unless you live in
>> a junkies' refuge.
>>
*Takes deep breath*
How about changing the downstairs one to a heat detector? Probably about £30 maximum and a five minute job.
I'm sure the doctor who now has the death of four of his family on his conscience never intended to be caught in a house fire either.
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AC
I'm sure you live in London. The LFB supply and install free smoke alarms that have ten year sealed batteries, are less sensitive which means less false alarms and have a reset button. Just walk in to your nearest station and they will arrange a visit. They will come out and place them where they will be most effective, without being a nuisance. And it's all free.
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>>I too am at a loss to know why such a relatively modern property apparently has no smoke alarms.
Human nature! They keep going off so the battery's permanently removed. It's also quite common for the battery to be 'borrowed', often for a child's toy - some folk think those batteries are expensive.
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I think the various hobby-horses on fire alarms should be quieted. Accellerant into the hall (if that is what the alleged arsonists did) or even via a window would cause a fire to spread so rapidly that the presence or absence of an alarm is probably irrelevant. The onlt antidote to a spreading fire of magnitude, is fire separation by e.g intumescent doors, of the upper floors from the lower floors.
Last edited by: NIL on Tue 16 Oct 12 at 20:59
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>> I think the various hobby-horses on fire alarms should be quieted.
I'd go with that too. Alarms are good for smoke from a smouldering item, say a self immolating telly or for picking up a small flash fire, like a chip pan.
No use at all if your hall's been sprayed with petrol and a match struck.
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>> No use at all if your hall's been sprayed with petrol and a match struck.
Depends where you are and where the smoke alarm is. If you are in bed, and the alarm is on the upstairs landing you might get enough warning to get out.
Petrol sprayed in your hall is pretty rare. There is no reason on earth to not have a smoke alarm, and to moan about them is sheer stupidity of the highest order.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Oct 12 at 00:47
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I don't disagree with idea that smoke alarms should be installed and maintained. I do have an issue with idea that this family would have been OK if they'd had them.
If my hall, which has a smoke alarm was subject to an arson attack I'm not sure we'd get out at night bearing in mind need to wake, assemble and escape form an upper floor window.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 16 Oct 12 at 21:38
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>> There is no reason on earth to not have a smoke alarm, and to moan about them is sheer stupidity of the highest order.
No it's not. It's just human nature to complain about something that isn't very necessary and that makes a damn nuisance of itself. I can quite understand why people take the batteries out and then get suffocated by smoke.
Part of the problem here is that they aren't all well placed, or they're too sensitive or something. Perhaps these heat detectors suggested by Fursty Ferret would be better.
And by the way, people pouring accelerant into your hall or front room and setting it alight may be rare, but when it happens the smoke alarms aren't going to help much. We suffered an arson attack of that sort in the Grove, and only an insomniac neighbour and the nearby fire brigade saved the six-story gaff because we weren't there and nor was anyone else. In the basement room attacked, the local CID got the shivers and made it clear they regarded arson as among the vilest of crimes. It is of course.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Oct 12 at 00:47
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>>Petrol sprayed in your hall is pretty rare.
>>
Latest info
Investigators have been unable to find traces of any accelerant at the scene of a house fire in Harlow in which a doctor and four of her children died.
An Essex Police spokesman there was "no evidence to suggest than an accelerant was used".
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>> >> I think the various hobby-horses on fire alarms should be quieted.
>>
>> I'd go with that too. Alarms are good for smoke from a smouldering item, say
>> a self immolating telly or for picking up a small flash fire, like a chip
>> pan.
>>
>> No use at all if your hall's been sprayed with petrol and a match struck.
>>
>>
Since smoke inhalation is the primary cause of death in house fires I respectfully suggest you reconsider your opinion.
Jesus, it's like dealing with the flat earth brigade.
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>> Since smoke inhalation is the primary cause of death in house fires I respectfully suggest
>> you reconsider your opinion.
>>
>> Jesus, it's like dealing with the flat earth brigade.
>>
Entirely accept that. Have smoke alarms.
Just not convinced that blaming the victim of an arson attack, with implication he's have been OK if he's had smokes, is right.
Bit like bike helmets, their contribution to your safety is limited by the function they're designed to provide. The cyclist, who was not wearing a helmet, suffered a broken hip (or wrist)!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 16 Oct 12 at 21:44
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>Just not convinced that blaming the victim of an arson attack, with implication he's
>have been OK if he's had smokes, is right.
No-one is blaming the victims here Bromp. Just expressing disbelief that they didn't have a cheap and effective device that could have saved them.
Contrary to NIL and your own beliefs, even if you are subject to an arson attack, a smoke alarm will notice it before you do if you are throwing out ZZZZ's.
You have kids don't you Bromp? Have you told them what to do if the smoke alarm goes off?
Last edited by: Kevin on Tue 16 Oct 12 at 22:26
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The phrase quoted is "I've never yet come across a death that couldn't have been prevented if smoke alarms were fitted".
I'm sorry but I don't believe that. Not where arson and accelerants are in play.
As of last weekend the younger of my kids is an adult. If the smokes went off when they were kids the instruction was stay where you are in your bedroom, get by the window crack it open for fresh air if needed.
Opening a bedroom door onto a blazing hall/stairs is a bad idea.
If there's a safe way out other than a fireman/neighbour at your window Mum and Dad will shout to you.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 16 Oct 12 at 22:41
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Folks, as I learnt to my cost, it is always handy to also have a smoke alarm up in your loft space. Our house fire was up there and only noticed when the smoke and flames came through the roof!
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Ditto. Smoke alarms can help, but there would be little time to react to this sort of fire. Suggesting that this instance may be one where smoke alarms might not be as effective as slow-burning events is not an attack on smoke alarms!
Last edited by: NIL on Wed 17 Oct 12 at 00:53
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The "Fire Chief" with complete faith in smoke alarms may not be aware of this study: tinyurl.com/8n76k6f
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The fire brigade came and fitted a smoke alarm in our house. Turns out it was one from a faulty batch, as I found out at 3am when I couldn't shut the thing up from sounding like a demented canary. Ended up ripping it off the ceiling, prising open the case and cutting a wire from the sealed battery to the PCB.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-11930332 (couldn't find the link for my area, but it relates to the same type of alarm)
Informed the fire brigade who said not to throw it away as it contained a radioactive source (Am-241) and they would arrange collection and a replacement. A few months past and nothing happened. Phoned them again and a a couple more months down the line still nothing. Ended up taking it to the local council tip who arranged safe disposal.
We weren't to bothered about a replacement to be honest, because shortly after the fire brigade installed it, our landlord got an electrician to wire another smoke detector into the mains which also has a battery backup. All we were concerned about was the collection of the old faulty one from the fire brigade that was sitting in the shed.
Talking of smoke detectors:- Couple smash up home to silence mystery noise: An old smoke alarm
tinyurl.com/9t3urqp - www.metro.co.uk
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 17 Oct 12 at 01:49
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I can only assume that most of the comments above were written by people who have no knowledge, or experience of fires, or training in fire fighting. I hope for the sake of you and your loved ones it never happens to you. Most people are killed by smouldering fires which are not discovered until it is too late.
I have mains powered smoke alarms with battery backup and a big fire extinguisher which would probably be useless without breathing apparatus. If in doubt get out and stay out.
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>>I can only assume that most of the comments above were written by people who have no knowledge, or experience of fires, or training in fire fighting.
>>
I have been on just one fire fighting course but that was many years ago.
I used a C02,( load and risk of frost bite) foam and Halon extinguisers.
Very very impressed with the Halon but did learn a lot about what to do / not to do.
I have a small fire blanket and an illegal Halon.
We do not use a deep fat fryy pan so I hope that is a big risk reduced.
I was told that in smoke your eyes close after 15 seconds and DO NOT reopen so lots of plans may be affected by that.
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We have smoke alarms in every room except bathroom, ensuite, kitchen, utility room and garage. The alarms are checked weekly, and have new batteries fitted every year as a matter of course. I intend to replace the alarms when they are ten years old, as advised by the National Fire Protection Association. tinyurl.com/9z9urae
Last edited by: L'escargot on Wed 17 Oct 12 at 09:27
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Smoke inhalation.
A few weeks ago I was near a car that had just started an electrical fire. It was in the open air and I was the first to realise. I found it difficult to shout a warning because it felt like I'd inhaled a brick. That was the first inkling I had that any thing was wrong.
I felt like carp until the next morning!
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>> I felt like carp until the next morning!
>>
In my case I was checked over by the ambulance crew who attended and told I had suffered mild smoke inhalation. Was a bit wheezy for a day or two. Given that it would've been kerosene, wood, plastics and polythene burning in the main, plus a 25 litre drum of SAE50 oil which melted and went up, it was a good job I didn't suffer worse. Another reason why I didn't go into the building; it might look clear but those fumes can bring you down in seconds.
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>> advised by the National Fire Protection Association. tinyurl.com/9z9urae
>>
Most fires tend to happen in the homes of the underprivileged. Lud and Mrs Armel Coussine can sleep easy.
Increasingly, the tendency is for new Social Housing, formerly known as Council Homes, to have sprinklers fitted as standard. Cost is about £1500 to £2000 pr home, and an annual maintenance bill of about £100 (ultimately paid for by the taxpayer).
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That's interesting John H, have you got a link for that? I know a lot of council flats have the screw on ones (B&Q type) are being removed and replaced with central monitered ones.
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If in doubt get out and stay out.
>>
>>
^^^^^^
THIS!!
My garage had sheet polythene tacked to the rafters, put there by the PO of the house as he used it for sparaying cars. when the fire spread it started melting the polythene, resulting in big blobs of black molten plastic dripping all over everywhere; the very reason I didn't get too close when I tackled my fire as I know from experience it sticks to the skin and can cause serious damage.
For that reason my Harley stayed put in the garage; the temptation was to rescue it but thankfully common sense, and previous training as said above, kicked in. I'd far sooner have a repaint than a skin graft.
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>>
>> Since smoke inhalation is the primary cause of death in house fires .
Obviously that must be literally true, because presumably few people are actually burnt to death before the smoke affects them, or die from jumping out of windows, or are crushed by falling structure.
The primary cause surely is failure to escape in time.
So avoidance of death would best be from a mix of prevention, training, provision of escape routes, detection, and automatic extinction.
How many of the posters here who advocate smoke alarms carry out regular fire drills?
How many have practiced bundling their sleeping children downstairs in the dark in a simulated evacuation practice?
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+1. Fire plan in other words.
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I looked into sprinklers for my house but it's near impossible to get hold of them in the UK without being in the trade.
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There was talk of all new builds in Wales having sprinkler systems installed. There is a lot of resistance from the construction industry, far better would be to teach people to drink less and fall asleep with a fag in their slack gobs or wanting a fry up when they got home after a night on the beer, or in at least two cases recently smoking when on an oxygen feed.
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If a dropped cigarette starts a fire it takes about two hours to become noticeable outside the house, 2am is a common call out time for the emergency services. The occupants are long dead from smoke by then. 6pm and 12 midnight are good times for chip pan fires.
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>>midnight are good times for chip pan fires.
I understand the dangers of Chip-pan fires, but the previous occupants of this house installed a sprinkler over the bath! - I ask you! how often do baths catch fire?
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If it does go off it makes the coal soggy and difficult to burn.
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the previous occupants of this house installed
>> a sprinkler over the bath! -
Are you sure it's not a shower? ;-)
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>> >>midnight are good times for chip pan fires.
>>
>> I understand the dangers of Chip-pan fires, but the previous occupants of this house installed
>> a sprinkler over the bath! - I ask you! how often do baths catch fire?
>>
You mean you didn't have 20 gallons of unleaded in the bath during the last refinery blockade?
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Wed 17 Oct 12 at 18:47
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Smoke alarms... - R.P.
