Don't know if many of you motoring fans use trains very often, and those that do might know this already but it pays to do a bit of research before rushing up to Fast Ticket machines or to ticket office.
Couple of weeks ago was at Exeter and needed to go to Cheltenham by train. Went to ticket machine and it said £32 (with Senior Railcard 30% discount). Went to ticket office - same price - "That's the cheapest Sir" said lady in Office. "Hang on", I said, "that sounds a bit much. How much to Bristol Temple Meads?". "£12.20" said the lady. "And how much to Cheltenham from Bristol", I asked. "£5.35" said the lady. "I'll have those tickets", said I, "That's £17.55 instead of your cheapest fare of £32" "That does seem the best way to do it Sir", she said.
Same thing today. Had to get from Knaresborough to Newcastle. Ticket machine said £26.40 leaving at 10.14 or £41.70 leaving at 11.14.
So, I bought a ticket from Knaresborough to York - £4.35 at any time and a ticket from York to Newcastle - £7.90 at any time (Cross Country trains rather than E Coast mainline - but they run 5 minutes apart and take the same time).
So, £12.25 instead of £26.40 or £41.70 on exactly the same trains!
Daft
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I do the same, Phil...with the added advantage of a ' bus pass ' and a disabled railcard.
Last week, we went to Buxton from Manchester. You can get as far as Middlewood for free, then Middlewood to Buxton and back was £4.75 each leaving the last leg free again.
Add to that the free tram from Piccadilly Station to 200 yds from home and we were quids in.
Ted
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It has been mentioned, but it doesn't do any harm to mention it again:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=10783&m=242680&v=e
Recently I've knocked a further £3 off my Reading-Bath commute, which was already down to a cheap £27 with ticket splitting and advance tickets (on the day it's £110).
Instead of getting the 7:26 from Reading to Bath, which cost £10 for the Didcot-Bath leg of the journey (advance single), I now get the 7:42. Get off at Swindon, loiter for 15 minutes or so, and get the 8:27 through to Bath (which left Reading at 7:57). Just £7.
Adds half an hour to the total journey time (now about 2.5 hours door to door), but I'm just working, so it's no big deal. You could view it as half an hour's less interruptions :)
EDIT: to clarify, commute actually from Earley and that start time is fixed, so there's an extra 15 mins loitering at Reading as well
Last edited by: Focus on Wed 3 Oct 12 at 19:04
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For those who travel with the kids its worth getting a friends and family railcard.
IIRC you get 30% off adult fares but all the kids get 60% of the child fare making their ticket cost negligible
We go from Bristol to London Paddington 2 adults and three kids, and depending on the timing and advance booking its around fifty quid
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The eye-phone app for that is called 'tickety-split'.
I travelled to Olympia yesterday from Hemel Hempstead with a chap who had come from Manchester by rail the day before. He had discovered that he could get a return for the same price as a singe off peak ticket, about £67 IIRC, when buying at the ticket office but not online.
Unfathomable. Certainly worth a bit of probing before buying an expensive ticket.
A pal of mine who was in the travel business is very good at getting in quick for all sorts of limited release very cheap hotel rooms, apex rail tickets etc. He has on a couple of occasions used the sleeper from London to the Highlands for about £10.
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I regularly travel A to C, changing trains at B An A to C ticket is £60. travelling on the same trains but on 2 tickets is £17. An extreme example but true and not untypical
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"The eye-phone app for that is called 'tickety-split'"
Yes, I use the app but, oddly, on my trip from Knaresborough to Newcastle today (see above), it only came up with a saving of £2 on the fare. My savings were obtained by looking up various combinations on "the trainline"
www.thetrainline.com/
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>> savings were obtained by looking up various combinations on "the trainline"
>> www.thetrainline.com/
Not the best site to actually buy your tickets on though - they charge a £1 transaction fee (although you can buy multiple tickets in one transaction), and they also charge for using a credit card. I use the FGW site - they all use the same database AFAIK - who don't charge for either.
www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/
Last edited by: Focus on Wed 3 Oct 12 at 20:20
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Thanks Focus - will try it.
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BTW if anyone has to park at Reading and take the train somewhere, and doesn't fancy the high car park charges, I would suggest parking at Earley and taking the train from there instead. There's unofficial free parking round the back of the station:
goo.gl/maps/Bf7cv
Overflow parking down the road behind the viewpoint - no driveways to block.
The extra stop adds £1 to my Bath commute (although I walk to Earley rather than drive). Obviously there's zero security, apart from safety in numbers.
EDIT: the map doesn't show the footbridge over the A329M - makes it somewhat more convenient :)
Bridge is at the end of the cul-de-sac.
Last edited by: Focus on Wed 3 Oct 12 at 20:52
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"Reading and take the train somewhere"
Going anywhere from Reading (by train!) is expensive!
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>> Going anywhere from Reading (by train!) is expensive!
>>
Yes, but worth the money to reach civilisation.
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If I was you I wouldnt start there.
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Enjoy
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UymKurTBdhw
(contains swearing)
Last edited by: TheManWithNoName on Wed 3 Oct 12 at 22:02
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"If I was you I wouldnt start there"
Z, that reminds me. A few years ago on "the other site" someone was askng for directions from A to B. In a lighthearted way I said that it reminded me of the old Irish joke and said "If I was you I wouldn't start from A and I wouldn't go to B". The man in the hat (?) sent me a rather irate email banning me from the site for being silly, facetious and unhelpful! If I remember correctly, it was Mark (NoFM2R) who sorted out my re-instatement!
Hope you don't get banned!!
P
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>> Hope you don't get banned!!
>> P
He was a tit. I told him a few times, but I never got banned, merely censored.
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>> if anyone has to park at Reading and doesn't fancy the high car park charges, I would suggest parking at Earley
Ditto Leicester, park at Syston for free.
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"Ditto Leicester, park at Syston for free."
And on the train buy a ticket to Leicester, you are then on platform at Leicester and can "jump" a train to anywhere else???
Too many ticket collectors and barriers these days - though I do know people who seem to get away with it!!
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>> "Ditto Leicester, park at Syston for free."
>> And on the train buy a ticket to Leicester, you are then on platform at
>> Leicester and can "jump" a train to anywhere else???
>> Too many ticket collectors and barriers these days - though I do know people who
>> seem to get away with it!!
My usual train home is a London Midland service from Euston to Brum, fast to Milton Keynes and stopping thereafter. As it goes from platform 16-18 there are no barriers.
There's a guy I've seen 2/3 times a week going beyond Northampton. If there's an inspection he proffers a debit card and buys a single Euston to New Street The other days he presumably travels free.
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"New Street"
No barriers there either!
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>> "New Street"
>> No barriers there either!
That makes it even easier.
I thought there were barriers on exiting the station but not for those interchanging to local trains on say the Cross City line.
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My train fares are all free. :-)
We need high prices to pay for new trains which we need fast.!!
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"New Street
I thought there were barriers on exiting the station"
No actual barriers that you put ticket into - there are ticket inspectors at the exit but there are usually so many people going through or they are being asked questions by other people that they don't inspect each ticket. You could probably wave any old rail ticket at them and walk through. (Don't know because I haven't tried it but never had my ticket read properly there!)
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Book online through topcashback www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/member86963016544 and Southern Railways. 6% cashback. (You can book tickets to anywhere through Southern Railways's site.)
I've only recently discovered cashback. Check every time you buy something online and it's free money.
6% back on your £24 commute takes it down to £22.50. :)
And if you join through the referral link above they'll give me £10, so I'll donate £10 to Help for Heros.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 4 Oct 12 at 09:29
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Thanks Mapmaker - I'm with the Quidco cashback site, and I'd looked for ticket selling sites but missed that one (it's on there as well).
I only get the Didcot-Bath advance tickets online because the Earley-Didcot bit is the same price on the day, so I don't waste quite so much if I don't/can't go into the office (happened twice this week). But that's still 6% of £40 per week, which is definitely worth having.
Perhaps they're offering such a (relatively) high rate because nobody uses their site due to the awful user interface :)
Last edited by: Focus on Thu 4 Oct 12 at 09:46
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I signed up with Quidco on the rec of someone here and it's as clear as mud to me. I thought I'd managed to link through and take out a phone contract with cashback but whenever I log in it shows no "activity"comes up with some patronising message with links that lead to nothing comprehensible. Binned it.
Is the other one any better?
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 4 Oct 12 at 09:58
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>> I signed up with Quidco on the rec of someone here
Oh dear... was that me?
Generally I've found it's ok, and when they appear to have missed something I've been able to get it 'recognised' using the website. I've had over £200 cashback so far, but yes, it can be a fiddle.
Sorry, haven't tried others.
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Not blaming you. Once I've gone into Meldrew mode with something I lose patience ;-)
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Well, they're promising me the £110+ on my mobile contract, plus a fiver for a train ticket plus something else, so yes, they've always worked for me.
It was quite nerve-wracking to take up the mobile phone contract given the Orange website gave no indication whatsoever that it realised that I'd clicked through there from the cashback site. You do have to click through from the cashback site, you know.
Also, topcashback have no joining fee, and were offering a better rate on the mobile phone deal. That's why I joined them.
You've reminded me, I joined Quidco a year ago, and it didn't work for me either. Completely gave up on the idea.
Topcashback gives 6.06%... compared to Quidco's 6% on those rail tickets. Such tiny margins, it's a strange business model, isn't it.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 4 Oct 12 at 10:20
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>> Topcashback gives 6.06%... compared to Quidco's 6% on those rail tickets.
Do Topcashback have any charges? I hadn't realised before I joined that Quidco "retain the first £5 of your confirmed cashback each membership year towards the cost of the site". Hence I think it would be better to get the tickets through Quidco at the slightly lower rate, unless Topcashback have lower charges in which case it would be better to switch to them completely.
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It is my understanding that it is charge free. But I wouldn't pre-spend the cash until I've received it...
"Join 100% free"
"Get 100% of your cashback with no commission"
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>> "Get 100% of your cashback with no commission"
Well it certainly sounds promising - might switch over the weekend. I'd be happy to do the referral thing - do I need a special link or reference number?
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Good one MM - just joined
P
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>> And if you join through the referral link above they'll give me £10, so I'll
>> donate £10 to Help for Heros.
done (although I would guess I have to earn some cashback before they give you anything?)
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>> done (although I would guess I have to earn some cashback before they give you
>> anything?)
Ah yes - "Note, for the above bonuses to be applied, your friend must authenticate their account and reach a cashback threshold of £10.00 of payable or claimed transactions."
Probably take about a month assuming I buy the usual tickets.
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So you'll get the cashback about January and no doubt I'll get my cash in about May next year. I'll look out for it!
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>> So you'll get the cashback about January and no doubt I'll get my cash in
>> about May next year. I'll look out for it!
Well so far I've made 2 purchases, and lodged 2 missing cashback claims :(
Process was quite straightforward though so I'll keep persevering.
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Looks like it was Adblock that was preventing tracking. I've disabled it for my last 2 transactions and they've shown up in my account within a day.
With any luck you'll have your £10 by Christmas Mapmaker.
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>> With any luck you'll have your £10 by Christmas Mapmaker.
Perhaps not by Christmas (2012), but hopefully it did eventually?
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I'm surprised they don't do a BOGOF offer.
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It is really really mad, the classic example I find is it is often cheaper from Manchester to get a ticket to Bournemouth or Brighton via London than it is to get a ticket to London. It is frankly madness.
Then there are other really odd things, Manchester to Bangor is about 100 miles, it takes around three hours to get there by train as you have to change at Chester or Crewe. Cheapest ticket is around £40. Manchester to London is 208 miles, takes two hours, and often costs as little as £22 return if you travel at odd times and book in advance.
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Mcr to Bangor, £13 per hour.
Mcr to London, £11 per hour.
Seem quite similar to me?!
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Anytime returns:
Reading-Didcot - approx 15 mins/miles: £9
Didcot-Swindon - ditto: £40.20
:o
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Presumably the Reading - Didcot fare is set by the local operator as part of the Oxford service group while Didcot - Swindon is set by Great Western.
Hoever both TOC's are part of First Group!!
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I did query it once a few years ago, and was told that the higher price was to put people off!* Apparently Didcot-Swindon is very popular, although I don't see any evidence of that on the trains I use.
* I suppose it makes sense, but it feels wrong somehow.
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It is not about per hour though, it is about the speed. The general idea of public transport is you pay a lot more for quicker journeys. E.g the greater the speed, the greater the cost per mile.
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The general idea
>> of public transport is you pay a lot more for quicker journeys. E.g the greater
>> the speed, the greater the cost per mile.
>>
>>
>>
Then why are London buses so damned expensive?
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>> Then why are London buses so damned expensive?
>>
More expensive than Sheffield but at even without an Oyster card they're far cheaper than here in Northampton. Nigh on £6 quid return to station and last regular bus is 18:10.
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>> Then there are other really odd things, Manchester to Bangor is about 100 miles, it
>> takes around three hours to get there by train as you have to change at
>> Chester or Crewe. Cheapest ticket is around £40. Manchester to London is 208 miles, takes
>> two hours, and often costs as little as £22 return if you travel at odd
>> times and book in advance.
>>
Or even as cheap as £12
tinyurl.com/92wp89g
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>> It is really really mad, the classic example I find is it is often cheaper
>> from Manchester to get a ticket to Bournemouth or Brighton via London than it is
>> to get a ticket to London. It is frankly madness.
Why is that madness?
If they reduce the fare to London then EVERYONE gets the lower rate. If they allow the anomaly to exist, then a small fraction of the passengers realise and get the lower rate, everyone else pays the higher rate.
Of course, if the market worked it out, then it wouldn't be so effective. Fortunately for them, the market is by and large oblivious.
>> Then there are other really odd things, Manchester to Bangor is about 100 miles, it
>> takes around three hours to get there by train as you have to change at
>> Chester or Crewe. Cheapest ticket is around £40. Manchester to London is 208
>> miles, takes two hours, and often costs as little as £22 return if you travel at odd
>> times and book in advance.
So, you think travel should be time/distance is charged with no other criteria and they've just got it wrong?
I'm not saying it’s good, or even that its fair, but it most certainly is not madness.
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>> So, you think travel should be time/distance is charged with no other criteria and they've
>> just got it wrong?
>>
>> I'm not saying it’s good, or even that its fair, but it most certainly is
>> not madness.
The cheaper fares are train seat specific and use the same demand managment logic as the airlines.
At certain times, when business volumes are low, the cheapest fare can be in first class.
Other anomalies are down to which company sets the fare and how the 'permittted route for particular journeys is worked out.
Northampton to Chester for example the lowest through fare is (say) £50, set by London Midland/Arriva Wales. Doubling back to Milton Keynes is forbidden, you most go directly north to Crewe on an LM service, though it may be possible to avoid a really slow routing via Stoke by changing at Stafford as well as Crewe. Journey time nigh on 3hrs.
OTOH book from MK and the fares are for the hourly direct Virgin service with singles from £12. Book seperately from Northampton to MK. Save a good £10 and the best part of an hour's travel time.
Singles from Milton Key
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>> use the same demand managment logic as the airlines.
And that is impressive. A friend and I used to work for Delta and LANChile (actually he still does) and so we got involved in the revenue management. Really, very clever and very effective.
I don't know how it is these days, but some years ago there was the intention to replace the UK's rail ticketing and cross-charging systems which I briefly looked at; Zero's old employer did too, I don't know if he was involved.
Now that is (was?) a seriously complex system; allocating a proportion of the fare by who owns how much of the rail used on the journey, the stations involved, the rolling stock, who sold the ticket, time of day, various allowances and just about every other factor you can think of.
We walked away on the basis that it was too complex and too undocumented. Perhaps they did finally fix it.
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I can imagine that UK train demand management and route revenue apportioning would make the Airline requirements look trivial.
Didnt know my bunch of 'erberts had looked it, clearly nothing came of it as I never got mentioned round the water cooler.
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Daft train fares - Ted
