Over the weekend a friend and I drove upto Manchester, ( great game , even better result) he drives quite fast 75+ish, and it was nice to be a passenger for once meant i could drink with impunity)and yet we got overtaken by more cars than we overtook, by about 2/1 , but spent about 40% of our time on the inside lane.
On at least 20 occasions , he had to slow down to overtake someone in the middle lane, who was going slower.
On at least another dozen times, the outside lane was so fast flowing, it was easier and "safer" to undertake.
Why are motorway drivers are lazy, they rarely signal either
Also shouldn't car drivers who drive below speeds that lorries can drive at, be banned from driving on oorways, they mean lorries have o go into the middle lane, pushing more vehicles into an already over busy outside lane and causing delays for miles. If they want to drive slowly why go on a motorway
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No argument at all about the lazy blighters, thumbs up bums and brains in neutral, hogging the middle lane.
But as to the last bit about driving below lorry speeds, WTF??
My long distance drive is often the family Berlingo. It's a 1.9 IDI diesel with no turbo. Output around 70PS.
Its most comfortable at a tad under 3kRPM, an indicated 65 or so in 5th. Pushed harder it gets wearingly noisy and guzzles its fuel. If trucks want to overtake they can. That's what lane 2 is there for.
I go on the motorway'cos there's no other route where I can average over 50mph.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 30 Sep 12 at 22:25
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I wasn't going to reply, as wotspur usually seems to post content I disagree with - but seriously, who are you to say who can and can't use the motorway just because they don't drive everywhere quickly like you???
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surely its easier just to stay in lanes 3, 4 or 5 at an indicated 95 and leave everyone else to get on with it. Just move over a lane or two if you are being tailgated. Or see the BiB and reduce to 85.
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>> Its most comfortable at a tad under 3kRPM, an indicated 65 or so in 5th.
>> Pushed harder it gets wearingly noisy and guzzles its fuel. If trucks want to overtake
>> they can. That's what lane 2 is there for.
>>
Truck's shouldn't be overtaking you - they're limited to 56MPH.
I did a long return journey down South last week, driving during the middle of the day each way after an overnight stop so the roads were relatively quiet.
Several times (would honestly say at least a dozen) I would be cruising in the left lane at 70ish and be approaching another vehicle, only for a car in middle lane to draw up level with me and then, rather than continue at the same speed and go past, it would just sit there, blocking me in. It's really noticeable when you're driving with cruise control on just how much other driver's speed varies.
So you adopt a different approach of pulling out way, way before the vehicle ahead but then you become a MLM yourself and the MLM behind sits on your bumper.
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>> It's really noticeable when you're driving with cruise control on just how much other driver's speed varies.
Amen to that. The worst types are those driving "prestige" (usually German) vehicles. I'll pass 'em on cruise, they'll take being overtaken by a cruddy fleetbox personally and I'll get overtaken by them a couple of miles later. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.
Some of them get visibly peeved. I just look at the speedo displaying the same number it has been for the last umpty-something miles, shake my head and sigh.
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>> On at least another dozen times, the outside lane was so fast flowing, it was
>> easier and "safer" to undertake.
I do it quite often. Just cruise past at 75 ish whilst Mr & Mrs Numpty are content to sit in t'middle wasting other people's time. I never do it aggressively or to make a point. I just can't see the point in putting up with someone else who may impede my progress by making me perform uneccessary lane changes.
To me, the inside lane is Britain's hidden motorway and vastly underused.
Just keep it to yerself and don't tell no-one.
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Works the other way too, TC. I hardly ever use CC when there's other traffic about because it's more important to control my own position relative to other vehicles than to maintain a constant speed. For me it's the CC users in the middle lane who are a nuisance, drifting on to my shoulder as I come up behind something slower, where I would accelerate past to leave them room to pull out.
Signore Anonimo is quite right about the left lane. I find the HC's statement that I may keep up with traffic in my own lane hugely liberating in just the situation he describes, provided all three lanes are in use.
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Cruise control only works when there's very little traffic. Overtaking very slowly on cruise is as bad as what lorries do when they are failing to pass one another on an incline. If you're going past, damn well go past, don't hang about and prolong the agony. Anyway I nearly always know what speed I am doing to the nearest 5 mph. I don't need cruise to maintain cruising speed.
Not a motorway, but a dual carriageway, day before yesterday on the way to London, someone in a large SUV thing was clearly, in my mirror, gaining on me. So I stayed in the nearside lane behind a slightly slower car to let it past. What it did though was to hang about on my rear o/s quarter for about two minutes, not going past. In the end I got so irritated that although things were a bit tight I booted it and came out in front of it, went past the slower vehicle, pulled back into the n/s lane and cruised away. Obviously disheartened, it too passed the slower car, pulled into the n/s and vanished slowly into the distance at below the speed limit.
Where do these people come from? What do they think they're doing? There are more of them than us. It's sinister.
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"Cruise control only works when there's very little traffic. Overtaking very slowly on cruise is as bad as what lorries do when they are failing to pass one another on an incline. If you're going past, damn well go past, don't hang about and prolong the agony. Anyway I nearly always know what speed I am doing to the nearest 5 mph. I don't need cruise to maintain cruising speed. "
Exactly. Cruise control has very little place on the UK's congested roads. You have to put your right foot somewhere anyway and the accelerator pedal is as good place as any.
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>> Exactly. Cruise control has very little place on the UK's congested roads.
So how did I successfully use one for 5 years on the Uk congested roads? You just use the finger up and down controls to adjust your speed.
You have to
>> put your right foot somewhere anyway and the accelerator pedal is as good place as
>> any.
Except of course you cant take it off, where as with cruise engaged you can move your foot anywhere you like, even do some ankle exercises, rather than have it nailed in one place.
About the only thing I miss from my days of having high tech cars is cruise control. (and electronic dimming rear view mirror)
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>> You just use the finger up and down controls to adjust your speed.
Yes, you can do that. But after a lifetime of driving cars without cruise, it feels much easier and more natural to use your foot when frequent adjustments of speed are needed. You aren't distracted by having to make a conscious decision to move the cruise lever up or down. Your foot or feet just do it more or less unconsciously.
It's also the case, in my car anyway, that the cruise is clumsier and heavier footed than I am - you can tell by the large pedal movements under your foot. Mainly though the clumsiness is mine: using the Zero formula I am more likely to find myself doing the wrong speed than if I use my much more practised foot. On busy roads cruise is much too fussy for me, too much hassle.
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>> It's also the case, in my car anyway, that the cruise is clumsier and heavier
>> footed than I am - you can tell by the large pedal movements under your
>> foot. Mainly though the clumsiness is mine: using the Zero formula I am more likely
>> to find myself doing the wrong speed than if I use my much more practised
>> foot. On busy roads cruise is much too fussy for me, too much hassle.
>>
Sounds like you have not driven a recent car with cruise control, the pedal does not move at all - done by the ECU, not like the old systems with solenoids . . .
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I've' never though of my Skoda as hi tech but knowing it has the two features you miss makes me feel so much better about it. :-)
I've honestly never found the need for foot exercises whilst driving - the pedal position is perfectly comfortable.
Strangely enough I thought the cruise control might finally come in handy last week driving up to Yorkshire and back. I recently fell and damaged my knee and whilst it is fine when walking or my leg is straight it hurts like hell after a while when my leg is bent in a seated position. I tried resting it on the foot rest with CC engaged but not having my leg straight made it hurt even more.
Thought I'd get it checked out by the Doc today. - told the earliest appointment 18th October. It's only pain I suppose
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 2 Oct 12 at 00:44
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In the same camp as Z on this, use it ('cruise') all the time. 30 limits, 40 limits, motorways... easy to adjust speed and maintain a speed limit.
Reactions are a matter of practice. It's no less wieldy when you are used to it than moving a foot, and unlike a foot doesn't have to be continually adjusted to maintain speed with constant glances at the speedo. In fact, with anticipation you can cover the brake and be on it quicker than if you had to move it from the go pedal.
I dislike the Outlandish though for having two buttons on the steering wheel, rather than a little toggle like the CRV.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 1 Oct 12 at 18:33
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Sorry manatee, I'm in the other camp:)
I hate cruise control and only ever use it on an empty motorway.
I drive by the seat of my pants and through the sole of my shoe, and that's the way I like it.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Mon 1 Oct 12 at 18:38
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>> I drive by the seat of my pants and through the sole of my shoe,
>> and that's the way I like it.
>>
>> Pat
I think I do that too with addition of ears monitoring engine note. Never had CC and, other than the chance to experiment I've never missed it.
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>> Never had CC and, other than the chance to experiment I've never missed it.
I've never owned a car with it, however a recent hired Corsa on Minorca had it and I couldn't match the instantaneous fuel consumption on the trip with manual control. The traffic's so light there it could be used to advantage.
Perhaps we should start a new thread about CC?
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>> In the same camp as Z on this, use it ('cruise') all the time. 30
>> limits, 40 limits, motorways... easy to adjust speed and maintain a speed limit.
>>
>> Reactions are a matter of practice. It's no less wieldy when you are used to
>> it than moving a foot, and unlike a foot doesn't have to be continually adjusted
>> to maintain speed with constant glances at the speedo. In fact, with anticipation you can
>> cover the brake and be on it quicker than if you had to move it
>> from the go pedal.
Mee too.
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>> You just use the finger up and down controls to adjust your speed.
>>
It sounds as if you need a hand throttle, like my tractor and landrover.
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>>To me, the inside lane is Britain's hidden motorway and vastly underused.
Like hard shoulders when the signs let you use them and bus lanes outside time restrictions.
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Bus lanes, certainly - always read the label. But I was on the M42 last weekend and couldn't bring myself to do the hard shoulder thing; seen too much ugly, nasty stuff lying about to go there if I don't have to.
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>>couldn't bring myself to do the hard shoulder thing; seen too much ugly, nasty stuff lying about
There shouldn't any more than any other lane as it's being swept by traffic and doesn't that make you one of the MLOC? ;>)
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Arguably, yes - the shame of it! But I rationalized that since the hard shoulder disappears up the slip road at each junction, it's best left to those leaving at that junction. And the traffic was heavy enough to make staying in lane the least disruptive option. Honest!
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>> the hard shoulder disappears up the slip road at each junction
Not when you've got legitimate hard shoulder working.
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>> >> the hard shoulder disappears up the slip road at each junction
>>
>> Not when you've got legitimate hard shoulder working.
>>
It does on the M42, or at least it disappears at the slip road
The hard shoulder is only available where marked when the variable speed limits are on
It is only available for this exiting at the next junction
It is specifically not available between the off slip and the on slip (red X on the gantry)
It then becomes available for the next junction
not used it anywhere else
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Absolutely right commerdriver, it's a pain in the arris for lorry drivers to use it and have to keep getting out of it at every junction so consequently we don't bother.
If the nearside lane is busy it is impossible to get anyone to let you out so I can understand W de B as well.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Mon 1 Oct 12 at 18:11
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>> To me, the inside lane is Britain's hidden motorway and vastly underused.
Yes. Unless it's crowded with 56mph lorries and you are doing a decent lick. Then the middle lane is where you need to be.
There's a proviso about the n/s lane on motorways: sometimes the ruts hammered by HGVs are deep enough to unsettle a small car, causing it to weave or wriggle which is a bit tiresome.
Motorways are by definition the fastest and safest roads there are, everything laid out logically, three wide lanes as a rule and no sudden twists and turns. It should be possible to go all the way round the M25 at 170. However many of our fellow motorists are apparently dedicated to making them slow and dangerous. Carphounds.
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>> There's a proviso about the n/s lane on motorways: sometimes the ruts hammered by HGVs
>> are deep enough to unsettle a small car, causing it to weave or wriggle which
>> is a bit tiresome.
parts of the M20 inside lane are almost unusable by cars, such is the state of the lane.
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Yeah, I guess that's so if you've got a cronky old jap heap with rubbish suspension. Most people down your way have something a bit more modern don't they? Volvos with golf bags in the boot mostly aren't they?
Whistles and moves on...
:-)
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>> Yeah, I guess that's so if you've got a cronky old jap heap with rubbish
>> suspension. Most people down your way have something a bit more modern don't they? Volvos
>> with golf bags in the boot mostly aren't they?
>>
>> Whistles and moves on...
>>
>> :-)
Tell me humph, what car you planning to buy when you get to take your pension?
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I thought they were intentional?
Aren't they there so that truck drivers can let go of the wheel to have a cuppa and read the paper?
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>>
>> There's a proviso about the n/s lane on motorways: sometimes the ruts hammered by HGVs
>> are deep enough to unsettle a small car, causing it to weave or wriggle which
>> is a bit tiresome.
>>
Weren't you one of those who was carping about lorries always being in the middle lane? ;-)
You can't have you cake and eat it Lud, if anything it goes to prove that the vast majority of HGV's spends the vast majority of their time in the nearside lane, as one would expect.
If you think those ruts are a PITA in a car, try it in a 7.5 tonne truck; the track is slightly narrower than a full-blown HGV, and on particularly bad patches it can pitch you twixt one rut and the other.
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>> Weren't you one of those who was carping about lorries always being in the middle lane? ;-)
No I wasn't. I have generally expressed respect and understanding for professional drivers who are quite often lumbered with governed vehicles difficult to stop when laden. AN HGV driver once saved my life when I was going too fast and made a mistake. They understand what they see in their mirrors, and know what to do about it too.
As for the ruts being bad in a 7.5 tonne truck, you should try them on a wet greasy day in a rough old Skoda, Hogman!
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I knew that, hence the "wink". :-)
As for the Skoda, no thanks, have yet to sink that low.
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>> have yet to sink that low.
... Oh Gaaahd... another philistine....
:o}
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On the subject of the HGV ruts, I read an article somewhere a few years ago from a chap with a Lamborghini Gallardo. He reckoned it was possible to drive it between two junctions of the M4 (can't remember which two) at a steady 70 mph without touching the steering wheel. The wheels were a neat fit in the ruts, and hence would steer the car on an almost inch perfect line.
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Parts of the A1 are so tram lined I know some who got into the passenger seat. I thought it was a load of old rubbish so he took a video of himself doing it. Madness.
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About time the subject of motorway driving got another airing! Lets everyone get rid of their pent-up annoyances about driving on them :-)
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"Lets everyone get rid of their pent-up annoyances about driving on them :-)"
Apart from the ludicrously expensive coffee at service stations I like motorway driving.
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>> "Lets everyone get rid of their pent-up annoyances about driving on them :-)"
>>
>> Apart from the ludicrously expensive coffee at service stations I like motorway driving.
>>
I was actually thinking about annoyances caused by other road users ;-)
We were recently in Italy, and I had what is probably the best cup of coffee I have ever had in my life, in a motorway service area and it cost less than 2 euros - but then, it was Italy!
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I try not to be annoyed by other road users, I'm sure I'm equally annoying at times.
I hate bad coffee though!
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>> I hate bad coffee though!
>>
You should try drinking the tea at them, a couple of times was enough from the m'way services. I have to wait till home for a decent brew!
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On a deserted motorway I try to get the point across to MLMs by executing a dramatic swerve from lane one to lane three and then back again. Obviously with correct indicator usage, of course.
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>by executing a dramatic swerve from lane one to lane three and then back again.
Yeah, we've seen you.
tinyurl.com/97syzgm
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I have an electric blind on the rear window. So tempted to have a big, white message printed on it that I can raise it when there's a brainless, useless monkey fudger driving behind me. Is "IDIOT" sufficient do you think?
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One of those scrolling dot matrix displays would be better, with the keypad for typing in the appropriate insult on the steering wheel. Much more flexible.
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You can't just label somebody an idiot like that.
It needs to say
ARE YOU AN IDIOT????
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or
DID U HAVE A BOWL OF STUPID FOR BREAKFAST?
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I have an iPhone app called marquee that scrolls a message in large letters across the screen. All it needs is a bigger screen - an iPad, say - and some speech recognition et voilà!
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 3 Oct 12 at 21:27
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Oh dear, evidently Great Aunt Mildred doesn't approve of the kind of large tent used for craft fairs and social functions. I can't even guess why that is.
The blocked word has now been put into your other post
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 3 Oct 12 at 21:28
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IAM teaching is to drive up to any speed limit, so long as it is safe to do so. This is to reduce traffic congestion. I tend to keep to limits although this seems to annoy a lot of motorists behind me. However, a speed cop told me some years ago that, if the police enforced the 70 mile limit on the M4 leaving London, there would be gridlock every rush hour. I imagine there are plenty of other places where this applies.
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>> However, a speed
>> cop told me some years ago that, if the police enforced the 70 mile limit
>> on the M4 leaving London, there would be gridlock every rush hour.
I thought traffic all travelling at the same speed was a good way to maximise flow rate?
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If it's the same M4 I use in the evenings, the police would have a devil of a job to enforce a speed of 70 mph; I'm usually pleased with 60.
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>> I thought traffic all travelling at the same speed was a good way to maximise
>> flow rate?
>>
If only that was possible. When I was commuting on the A1 at peak traffic times, on several occasions the traffic came to a standstill for a while. Until I got used to the phenomenon I assumed that there was some sort of holdup ~ accident etc. Every time there was no accident, but it was just that everyone went fractionally slower than the vehicle in front until eventually someone came to a standstill.
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>> Oh dear, evidently Great Aunt Mildred doesn't approve of the kind of large tent used
>> for craft fairs and social functions. I can't even guess why that is.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=10968&m=243792
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Stone me, F! That explains it anyway - and also the title of the app itself, which I'd always found a mite puzzling in a not-actually-that-bothered kind of way.
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Motorway driving - Bromptonaut
