tinyurl.com/cn5wy9n
In that case I'll steer clear of it for as long as possible.
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My working strategy with Microsoft is that everything after XP is expensive junk requiring new hardware....which I do not need. So I upgraded to a quad core CPU s/h and fast memory and Velociraptor disks instead.
Last edited by: madf on Fri 24 Aug 12 at 09:26
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Windows 8 demonstrates a major flaw in the Microsoft strategy. For years their aim has been to improve Windows and Office, with each iteration causing a wave of user updates that fill their coffers.
Unfortunately for them, they pretty much nailed the GUI PC operating system with XP and Office has been basically static since the same period, at least to all intents and purposes for the average user.
So what can they do? They can either change their model so that you have to Pay As You Go with minor updates for the latest tech advances or keep changing Windows and Office to fit in with the latest fashions, even if it actually results in a backwards step in usability.
Either way they lose. Choice one results in major user revolt, choice two results in pointless GUI changes to keep Windows relevant in the mobile era.
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What I don't like is the option of selecting your own OS when you buy a PC. Computers should be sold as hardware only and then users will just select an OS and will install it. If buyers can't do that themselves, then vendors could offer to do that for a fee (like pre-installed Windows).
From October, everyone buying a new PC will get Windows 8 bundled - which is not good.
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You used to be able to buy machines bare or with linux pre-installed. Dell used to offer it but M$ tie up hardware vendors so they don't want to upset them by offering something else so I don't know whether they still do.
I think I read recently most businesses were happily running XP and had no plans to change. Maybe that's been their strategy... make something completely unreliable so everyone upgrades all the time in the hope the next incarnation will be better but they dropped the ball with XP and accidentally made a half decent o/s ;)
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>> I think I read recently most businesses were happily running XP and had no plans
>> to change.
That's changing now. With no official support and Windows 7 proving to be fairly reliable, most companies are going to or have recently migrated from XP to Win 7.
I see few going to Windows 8 any time soon though.
However, as technology moves on and support for new hardware lags in older operating systems, there always comes a point when even the most stubborn of businesses (and home users) have to move on, even if they are simply forced to upgrade by worn out computer hardware or new, demanding, business requirements.
I don't see many businesses using DEC PDP-11s, for instance.
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>>From October, everyone buying a new PC will get Windows 8 bundled - which is not good.<<
By buying from Europc (or similar) you can still buy machines with XP Pro and get 3 years onsite Dell warranty - and I guess that will continue for some time.
Just looked ! Not at the moment but they had some until very recently!
Last edited by: pmh on Fri 24 Aug 12 at 10:50
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XP? For the love of god, why?
7 is consistantly faster on the same hardware as it's underpinnings are rather better than the rancid old Win2k kernel under XPs bonnet. Unless you have some antique piece of software that cannot be made to run under 7 (not found one yet) there's no good reason to want XP.
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TeeCee,
My children have two aging Dells running XP. I had assumed that they would not be capable of running W7, never mind running it faster than they run XP.
Am I wrong?
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>> TeeCee,
>>
>> My children have two aging Dells running XP. I had assumed that they would not
>> be capable of running W7, never mind running it faster than they run XP.
>>
>> Am I wrong?
>>
Win 7 system requirements here:-
windows.microsoft.com/is-IS/windows7/products/system-requirements
With 3 XP PCs and 2 Win 7 in Spamcan Towers, I'm in no hurry to upgrade the XP ones, not enough to be gained from a personal point of view.
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Thanks, prrety much what I thought. The two machienes run XP perfectly adequately, but do not have any of the following;
1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
1 gigabyte (GB) RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit)
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>> My children have two aging Dells running XP. I had assumed that they would not
>> be capable of running W7, never mind running it faster than they run XP.
>>
>> Am I wrong?
I have Windows 7 running on a 10 year old IBM Thinkpad T23 and it runs just as well as XP with all drivers installing straight off the Windows 7 DVD. OK you don't get all the graphic bells and whistles but you wouldn't get those in XP either.
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For anybody who can actually be bothered to learn how to use a computer efficiently, each new iteration of Microsoft has been less user-friendly than the last.
And if you use two computers with different versions, then switching between the two is like speaking two different but similar languages, giving rise to confusion all round.
And it's all because they want a desktop to look and feel more like a mobile phone (and this is what our IT department told me when I moaned about the new system). Crazy.
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Microsoft has announced that support - ie updates and security patches - for XP will end in March 2014. This may not bother home users but leaves businesses no choice but to move on. Most, like mine, have gone to Win7, which is ok even if it offers few benefits over XP to the typical email-and-Office user; one of my customers is going straight to Win8, which was a surprise to me.
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The thing is, your next computer will almost certainly have a touchscreen and for that, Windows 8 will be king. Very few people upgrade from one Windows version to the next but change with their new PCs.
Apple, on the other hand, perfected the technique of flogging service packs for £20 each years ago.
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Touch screens for desktop computers do not work in an ergonomic sense. Therefore Microsoft will release new hardware to be used with desktops to allow you to use the interface properly because it needs a touchpad or a multitouch enabled screen.
Even Apple release their Magic Pad and Magic Mouse so you can use some of the gestures in Mac OS X on a desktop. But you don't need either. But on Windows 8 you will need something like those to make the most of it.
I don't particularly like Windows 8 - tried the preview. I think the interface works okay on a phone or tablet but still don't like it.
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>> Touch screens for desktop computers do not work in an ergonomic sense. Therefore Microsoft will
>> release new hardware to be used with desktops to allow you to use the interface
>> properly because it needs a touchpad or a multitouch enabled screen.
>>
They've already demonstrated it. It's a USB doppler sensor (like the Xbox Kinect without the fancy moving bits) that spots you waving your hands around in front of you.
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So if you have to wave your hands vertically in front of you - not ergonomic.
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>> So if you have to wave your hands vertically in front of you - not
>> ergonomic.
>>
I'm looking forward to doing intricate photo edits and CAD drawings with a hand wavy UI ;-)
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But for the 90% of use where it's a family member spending a bit of time browsing the net or looking at photos in the living room, touchscreens will work perfectly.
I thought the iPad would suck but was proved wrong. Though I still wouldn't pay for one, I'm not complaining about the free one I get from work.
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>> The thing is, your next computer will almost certainly have a touchscreen .........
I get enough crud on my screen from the juice that squirts out of the apples I eat. The last thing I want is a layer of finger marks.
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Interesting Windows 8 comment here: tinyurl.com/9dkn38t
Last edited by: Victorbox on Sat 25 Aug 12 at 09:06
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Only just seen this thread. One major flaw with XP is most versions are 32-bit, this only works with upto 3.5GB RAM and XP is also more unsecure than 64-bit windows. Not many rootkits exist for 64-bit versions of windows for example.
I think Windows 7 64 will end up being the most common PC operating system for the next 5 years like XP has been. The UI on WIndows 8 is just too different and people don't like change. My customers had a hard time when Office 2007 came out.
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My OAP parents have just gone from XP to 7 thanks to a new PC, and they've found that quite hard. Sounds like it's a good job they didn't leave it any longer and end up with 8.
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Still using WinXP at home and work. We are in the process of migrating to Win7 at work due to XP not being supported by MS for much longer.
I've also got a laptop with Vista on it, but I hardly use it as the desktop is always plugged in and ready to go and I can't be bothered to get the laptop out of its bag and plug it in.
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www.mcpsafety.com/occupational-health/display-screen-equipment-usersworkstation-risk-assessments
There is ABSOLUTELY no way a touch screen makes sense ergonomically - even, I'd argue with a laptop, let alone a desktop. I can only just touch my computer screen from where I sit; And I'm certainly not going to spend a significant amount of time with my hands above my shoulders in order to operate the top half of the screen.
And moving your hands miles from the keyboard makes no sense at all. I don't understand why desktops aren't fitted with trackpads.
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Xp 64 bit
It is still possible to buy an XP Pro (64 bit) CD if anyone is interested:
www.directdeals.com/Microsoft-Windows-XP-Professional-J9A-00085-p/j9a-00085.htm
The $80 per copy listed translates to £80 delivered -- some customs extra later perhaps.
I already have XP Pro from an early CD and then many downloads. This one already has SP3 -- I bought one.
[Mods: Can I suggest the method of reducing web addresses, such as this one, is put on the C4P opening page so that members can paste in their addresses to get a shorter one. Or a hot link to open such a window?]
Last edited by: busbee on Tue 28 Aug 12 at 15:51
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See here, at the top of non-motoring, where it's always been :-)
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=5&t=11637
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Shortening addresses Thanks.
MMM, how about putting it at the top of the opening page of Car4play, in these days of Tab Browsing? Viewers start at that page and then tab the other section/s they intend to look at. At least I do. Thus, wherever you are, you can flick back to that first 'tab' and use it.
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>> [Mods: Can I suggest the method of reducing web addresses, such as this one,
The link you posted doesn't require shrinking though.
>> is put on the C4P opening page
As Smokie points out, it's already at the top of non motoring, and motoring. Is there a requirement to put it at the top of all sub forums?
It's actually far easier to put a toolbar onto your web browser (if using IE?) and you can hot link from that instead.
tinyurl.com/#toolbar
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>> And moving your hands miles from the keyboard makes no sense at all. I don't
>> understand why desktops aren't fitted with trackpads.
>>
Each to his own. The first thing I do with a laptop is select the "disable trackpad when external pointing device connected" option and plug in the USB microtransceiver for the cordless mouse.
Why? Because I get seriously hacked off with my sleeve brushing the trackpad and moving the input point while typing.
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There needs to also be hardware to assist with a desktop environment if they don't want to totally alienate users. Not every one will want a touch interface via the screen. It's fine for a tablet but for an upright screen at a desk, it would be tiring.
They need trackpads with multi-touch and similar too. No doubt on the way?
Windows 8 is still badly designed - there are two part to the UI. There's the old desktop (which has lot the start menu) and what was once referred to as Metro UI. Getting back from the former is not intuitive. Some interesting videos online of 'fathers' being asked to use Windows 8.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbjnbhWVN8c&feature=relmfu
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 30 Aug 12 at 16:32
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as with other ms releases best to wait for windows 9 instead
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The home PC market is in terminal decline. In fact its starting to tank. The reasons are obvious, the tablet/mobile device, along with internet connected TV's are stepping firmly into the breach, and the home PC is on its way out.
Windows 8 is completely unsuitable for all the existing PC hardware you currently use, in fact its been designed that way, so any "its less user friendly" comments completely miss the point. The hope by Microsoft is to try and unify its look and feel across all types of devices, and to offer tablet makers a choice away from android. As a tablet OS it makes sense.
However MS also makes a lot of money from the corporate world, there it is facing a whole new set of problems from the new trend in "bring what you buy" for the work place. One thing for sure is you wont see the windows 8 desktop on corporate rollouts.
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It annoys me that I have similar-but-different OSs at home and at work. To have completely different ones in the future... well I guess it might actually make life easier as if they're completely different you get less confused.
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As Zero says, you're not likely to see Windows 8 on a corporate device unless that device happens to be a tablet. And then it might just be Windows RT.
We're starting to see customers asking for pilots of Apple Mac's which would not have happened before. Apple products are probably seen as a status thing for senior managers etc.?
I agree that Windows 8 has been designed for different hardware that has multi-touch capability. But the fact they are offering cheap upgrades to XP/Vista/7 users suggests they are hoping to get people with 'normal' laptops or desktops to upgrade too.
And the server variant of Windows 8 won't have touch capability will it.... but I'd have said it would have a start menu but it also uses Metro UI.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 31 Aug 12 at 15:39
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"Microsoft Windows 8 is less user friendly" - madf
