I'll start a new thread here as the previous one has 122 posts in it:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=11070
To recap, my £2,000 Mondeo was damaged all over by 7cm hailstones in a freak storm in Leicestershire on 28 June this year. I had the damage assessed by my insurers' recommended bodyshop (twice, after they lost the first set of paperwork) and my insurers phoned today to tell me that the car has been declared a total loss.
I have read online, and heard by word of mouth, that what some people do is have their car declared a write-off then receive a payout for the reduction in value and keep the car. That's what I want to do. My insurers have said, however, that they don't do that and my only options are to give up the car to be crushed, or withdraw the claim altogether.
I explained to the insurance guy on the phone that it had taken a long time to find a car that was mechanically sound and reliable, and that I want to keep it as the dents don't affect its ability to do a couple of hundred miles at a time when I see my kids at weekends. I asked him what their salvage agents do with the total loss cars, even the perfectly driveable, MoTed ones, and he said he didn't know but that they probably crush them.
I don't want to give the car up as it's a good 'un. Should I just withdraw the claim and live with the battle scars, or is there a secret codeword which, when whispered to the insurers, makes them roll over?
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>> my insurers phoned today >>
someone phoned who is acting on behalf of your insurance company, he may be a temp, contractor, or someone very junior in the company.
>> My insurers have said, however, that they don't do that >>
>> insurance guy on the phone ... said he didn't know >>
ask to speak to someone senior, and hope that he/she has the discretion to make decisions other than say we "don't do that". Push it up the decision authority seniority tree as far as you can to get satisfaction.
I take it you can't/won't name the company.
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To enable the panel to give a more informed view, we need to know how much you are being offered for a write-off.
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I think it was inevitable that it would be a write off with the number of dents and the value of the car. Even if it was worth a lot more it's likely to be a write-off too. Too difficult to repair etc.
As iffy says how much is on offer - could you source another for the money? If you don't go ahead with the claim the car will be worthless. But does that bother you?
>> I explained to the insurance guy on the phone that it had taken a long time to find a car that
>> was mechanically sound and reliable
I thought your dad gave you his Mondeo.... might have remembered incorrectly. But if you didn't pay for it then does the condition bother you?
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The insurance co is One Call, never used them before but they came up with the best deal on the comparison websites at renewal time in April. By best deal I mean a combination of low price, good cover levels and low excess.
I was on a day out with the kids when I received the call today, so I cut the guy short after a minute or so when it got complicated. Completely forgot to ask how much they're offering in settlement.
The purchase of the Mondeo took place 18 months ago, my dad offered to buy me a car with 5 years left in it to make life a bit easier, as I'd been nursing my rusty Escort along for 3 years and its time had come. We searched a few sources, viewed a handful of cars and this one felt the most right - 18 months on I haven't been disappointed. So I didn't pay for it, but the fact that I've been paying car insurance premiums since 1990 and never made a claim before, and that everyone seemed to suggest this was my entitlement and a route to easy money, led me to put the claim in for the body damage. I was only going to spend the expected £1000 or so on decorating the house we've lived in for 5 years.
My dad's opinion is that I should forget the whole claim thing and just drive it into the ground as planned, dents and all. I'm becoming more inclined to agree with him.
EDIT: £2000 is my guesstimate of its value on 28th June before the hailstorm. Purchase price was £2895 in March 2011, 55 Mondeo LX TDCi 130 6sp 5dr hatch with 112k miles then. Mileage now 139k. Full history, everything working A1 incl aircon. Similar straight cars sell on the bay today for between £1700-£2100 with this mileage, similar cars with either broken injectors or shot clutch make £500-£700. No hail-damaged cars on the market that I can see.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Fri 17 Aug 12 at 22:35
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Obviously in a write-off situation the insurer gives you the market value of the car less any excess and the car becomes their property. You could ask what they will give you if you say you are prepared to repair the car yourself using your own materials and labour. You may be able to get the cash up front and it's up to you whether you fix the car or not.
Last edited by: Victorbox on Fri 17 Aug 12 at 22:20
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>> You could ask what they will give you if you say you are prepared to repair the car yourself
Except Dave knows it is not economically repairable. Actually it's probably not repairable without replacing all the panels or accepting filled dents.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 17 Aug 12 at 22:23
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John H has probably got the best approach, get to someone senior.
I suspect that you're facing one of two issues;
>Someone junior with a rule book
>A concern that the car will then be reinsured there or elsewher and claimed for again.
I don't fancy your chances, however the approach may be to ask them if their final position is pay-out and crushed or claim withdrawal. If they say yes, then state you will take the pay out and you'd like details of when and where it will be crushed so that you can be sure no parts from it will return or be sold.
If they decline to give those details, or say it will be sold, then that gives you your opening; if someone else can have it for spares/repair, then why can't you? And what category of write-off will it be? And why can't they do the same with you, etc. etc.
Remember, you're not dealing with a total loss, you're dealing with uneconomical repair, quite a different thing.
Antoher tact may be to value this at higher than another example because of its exceptional quallity. That might make it worthwhile to you to let it be written off.
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>> A concern that the car will then be reinsured there or elsewhere and claimed for again
Unless there's another once-in-a-lifetime hailstorm and I can prove my car was parked in it, I don't think that would be realistic. The storm was widely reported in the media, the bodyshop itself had 200 cars damaged in their compound and since then they have taken on several members of staff just to deal with the extra workload created by that one storm.
Wouldn't the car be forever recorded as Cat D hence worth pennies thereafter anyway?
>> to value this at higher than another example because of its exceptional quality. That might make it worthwhile to you to let it be written off.
The ins co wouldn't value this example any higher just because all of the model's known weak points have been addressed, would they?
Another point could be that the ins co consider a car with a mileage of 139k to be scrap whatever happens...
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Of course it will be stripped for spares. These guys don't work for nothing and why should they. That's how 2nd hand spares come to be. The value surely has to be whatever they value it at less the weight by tonnage on offer at any particular time. Don't know the price today, but guess £170.00. It'll only be the shell that is scrapped.
Try buying 2nd hand bits for my Master van and then tell me there's no dough in it.
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I think I'd be very careful before putting this through the insurers - work out the potential costs of loss of no-claims, higher subsequent premiums, Cat-D status, hassle.
Might only be a few quid either way in which case I'd keep the car and not claim. In this case you could happily answer "have you been involved in any accidents/claims, fault or no-fault, in the past 5 years" with "No" when you renew in the future.
Insurance is there to make up the shortfall when you lose out - in this case you haven't really lost other than having a car that looks like it was made from golf balls.
And as Martin suggests - there is a huge scrap market, especially for diesel Fords - so even when it comes to discarding the corpse it'll still be worth a chunk of change.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sat 18 Aug 12 at 08:30
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I think even if you cancel the claim, even without recompense, it still counts as a claim on your record, and will still need to be declared if/when you change insurers. - Read it somewhere fairly recently, I`m sure I did.
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The only recent experience I have (albeit a second hand one) is when my friend's bike was written off. He was given a (good) price for it and told at the end of the process that he could buy it back for 520 quid like any other punter. I've texted him for the name of the firm. I doubt very much that they'd crush it Dave - they have to recover their costs in the most efficient way.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 18 Aug 12 at 10:14
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...and told at the end of the process that he could buy it back...
I was wondering if, for reasons best known to the insurance company, it will be a two-stage process.
Stage one Dave accepts the write-off price, gives up the car, gets his money.
Stage two Dave asks the insurer if can bid on the salvage.
The risk being the answer 'no' to the stage two question.
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The insurance company my friend was with passed the bike on to a third party company to sell the wreck on. Doubt whether they give a crap who they sell it to. Unless someone spotted a good 'un before it got there and bagged it.
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Many (most?) insurers will now no longer sell car as salvage back to policy holder although this was not uncommon years ago. Too many fraudulent claims.
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>> I think even if you cancel the claim, even without recompense, it still counts as
>> a claim on your record, and will still need to be declared if/when you change
>> insurers. - Read it somewhere fairly recently, I`m sure I did.
>>
The insurance company keep a record of it as a zero value claim, apparently it doesn't affect your premium, it's just to prevent fraud, as my ins co explained it to me.
When moving to another insurance I see no reason to declare it myself. There was no accident, and no claim was made. I suspect they may not see it like that though.
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As I said earlier, I don't fancy your chances. I'd say this was good advice..
"work out the potential costs of loss of no-claims, higher subsequent premiums, Cat-D status, hassle."
Add to that how much you'd spend on a car compared to what you'd get for the existing one.
For me "hassle" would be the killer.
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>> I explained to the insurance guy on the phone that it had taken a long
>> time to find a car that was mechanically sound and reliable, and that I want
>> to keep it as the dents don't affect its ability to do a couple of
>> hundred miles at a time
That's why I withdrew the claim on mine. Getting used to the dents now, almost attached to them. Well, maybe not!
>> My dad's opinion is that I should forget the whole claim thing and just drive it into the ground as planned, dents and all. I'm becoming more inclined to agree with him.
That's my plan, and mine is only a 2009. I figure it'll only be worth £1500 (without dents, maybe £500 less with) in 4-5 years time, so why worry?
Last edited by: oilburner on Sat 18 Aug 12 at 10:51
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Cancel the claim. Buy a dent repair kit. Learn a new skill.
It was only ever going to be a total loss situation as insurance repairs have to replace every damaged panel.
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Find out how much they are offering, then apply online for insurance for a replacement car with lost NCB, do it for this year, next year and the year after. That will tell you the gain from the insurers and the loss from extra insurance costs. And the chance are the insurance money will not cover a similar car. Given that it is an oldish car anyway, I'd be tempted to drive it. I am sure it is a talking point ... and perhaps a point and stare point too. My last car had a large dent in the wing that appeared overnight somehow, as if pushed in. Not worth claiming.
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If its mechanically sound keep it. It's a known car. Stick a "Golf" badge on it and scrawl "ball" in marker pen...!
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If you do buy it back, try giving these guys a call
www.dentdevils.co.uk/hail.htm
Or even put them onto your insurer for a quote.
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Thanks everyone for the info and opinions. I've decided I'll ring the ins co on Monday, cancel the claim and just live with the marks - as Lygonos and Mark say, it's the hassle as much as anything else and they'll claw their money back over the following few years in increased premiums anyway. The phone agent did say there'd be a £60 "engineers' fee" for cancelling the claim, I will find out for certain whether I need to declare anything at renewal time when I speak to them.
DD, the bodyshop have a team of half a dozen dent guys doing nothing but hail damage repairs for the foreseeable - all of them worse than the pics in the dentdevils link!
Leif, you're right it is a talking point - the island ferry operators in the Hebrides the other week were intrigued by the state of its roof and collared me on the third or fourth day to ask how they got there. It's a bit of history for the car. I've already sketched out next year's holiday (it involves a few Alpine passes) and I wouldn't feel confident attempting it in an unknown vehicle.
I suppose I could try and pick up a matching scrap bonnet and tailgate on the cheap at some point in the future, but that still leaves the roof, doors, quarters and wings... Nah. It just means I'll be less touchy about car park dings from now on :)
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I had similar some years back with my old Triumph car, when it was on a normal policy, not a classic policy...albeit I knew the car was going to be a 'keeper'.
Someone hit me in the nearside and damaged both doors, that was it.
Ins co. tried to do as you've described.
My first hurdle, as yours is, was that they tried to get me to send in the MOT, so they could write it off. I very firmly told them, that I was the owner of the vehicle, I decided what happened to it and that they'd never own it, so there was no need for me to ask to buy it back.
I was told originally, that 'that was the was they dealt with it' and I'd have to comply.
I asked to speak with a manager (i.e. second level, away from the original handler, who works to a given script) and after some initial faffing, that if this was not complied with I'd be making a formal complaint.
I got the manager. I explained that I'd paid a premium and expected something back from that in my time of need....I also explained , as above, that I decided the outcome of my car, not them...and what did they propose to offer as recompense, bearing in mind I was a paying customer and that I wasn't going away. I also said that I wasn't greedy, wasn't expecting more than I should, just wanted some flexibility and to be put back into the position I was before the accident.
I dropped out in conversation that I was covered on a legal policy from work, that would assist me if need be ..(slight pork pie, because there was a legal cover, although I hadn't paid in to it...did afterwards though).
I offered to have a further quote arranged, somewhere of my choice, that would probably be less than their official one.
This was agreed to, the quote was less and they fully paid up, with no more hassle.
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Just for future reference for anybody needing to get their car fixed from this damage, I've been estimated a cost of £1,500 for Paintless Dent Removal on the 100 or so dents on my car. That's about 2/3 the price of replacing the worst affected panels.
Looks like I will be living with it after all. Or maybe learning a new skill as suggested above! :)
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Must have a been a "go away" price from Dent Devils. They probably have too much work on and can get away charging the insurance companies that much.
Local chap round the corner says £200 + VAT. Guess which one I picked?
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Hailstone damage - take the total loss or not? - John H
