Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
They sure do help tho....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18921492
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Shocking thing to happen (again)
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seems the gunman has booby trapped his lair.....
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'Right to bear arms'...
No checks, no balances, no permit required to purchase. Just 'ID'. No cooling off period, so far as I can ascertain. No permit required. Open and 'concealed' carry allowed. Castle Doctrine applies.
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The "right to bear arms" has been bent out of all context by the yanks. It was included in the constitution for the purpose of raising militia for defence of the country and citizens.
"The Constitution" is so holy, they can't seem some of the evil it brings.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Jul 12 at 16:59
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"From my cold dead hands,' Zero!
"Yep, I may be a third-generation inbred, with the brains of a duck, but I DO have the right to carry a gun and on my own judgement shoot anything which i consider a threat to me and mine."
And most of the time, MY judgement will count, as the guy I blew away can't give his side of the story.
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Oh dear. The more often this sort of thing happens the more wrong I seem to be in my visceral dislike of gun control.
I always feel that I should be allowed any firearms I want because I like them, and am relatively sane and restrained in my behaviour. But since there are raving nutters like the Atlanta guy, the ghastly fascist nerd Breivik and many others one remembers, perhaps they shouldn't be allowed in private hands at all. Even a four-ten or a .22 rabbit rifle can kill a human being. And of course as we know even police officers and soldiers can turn out to be raving nutters.
Can't put the genie back in the bottle though. Quite large areas of the world are awash with the things, from muzzle-loaded black powder jobs to modern automatic infantry weapons.
Perhaps everyone should undergo a battery of psychological tests when they reach the age of 18 or so. If they looked as if they might one day freak out with a gun or at the wheel they could be liquidated then and there.
Somehow though I don't feel Lygonos would buy that one. I don't myself really. It was just a bad-taste thought.
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>>Somehow though I don't feel Lygonos would buy that one.
Too right... doubt I'd have reached 19 in your Utopia ;-)
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>> doubt I'd have reached 19 in your Utopia ;-)
I don't suppose many of us would have.
Funny how utopias always contain some fascist idea, isn't it? They're as bad as religions.
The older I get the clearer it becomes that trying to change anything, anyway on a large scale, is liable to do more harm than good, a lot more usually.
Stand back, titter politely, and vote if you feel like it. That is the correct position for a reasonable person.
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Rowan Atkinson in The Thin Blue Line, when being asked about licensing a firearm said something along the lines of "in my view, the biggest disqualification for getting a firearms licence, is wanting a firearms licence"
Re The original subject of the thread, there are some real sick sods about! I hope everyone here never gets to meet one!
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 20 Jul 12 at 20:58
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>It was included in the constitution for the purpose of raising militia for defence of the country and citizens.
And to protect citizens against excesses of the state.
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>No checks, no balances, no permit required to purchase. Just 'ID'. No cooling off period, so far as I can ascertain.
Depends on state law.
Federal law requires buyers from firearms dealers to undergo a background check which takes 5 days IIRC.
In some states you only need to show a driver's license to walk away with a gun from a 'hunting' show or pawn shop.
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It's not just 'working' guns like shotguns/target & hunting weapons - the availability of automatic assault weaponry and body armour seems quite accessible in many states.
If you are donning your Kevlar, chances are you had time to call the cops or GTFO.
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How many US Presidents have appeared on TV in the aftermath of yet another massacre, reeled out the usual platitudes and done nothing ? Obama didn't seem to be particularly sincere on tonight's news....
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How many US Presidents could achieve office if they upset the gun owners?
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And that, Kevin, is the rub !
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I knew a visiting US student to the UK in the early 1990s. Back in the U in his college dorm he had a Kalashnikov... and AK47! With reinforced barrel so it didn't warp - useful if converted back to full automatic apparently! Fully legal and kept under his bed.
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Apologies for the typos... the site was not behaving and I tried persevering. I should have quit it and tried again.
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I'm sitting on the deck of my friends home in northern CA having discussed firearms law in the US.
They are serious law abiding people who wouldn't go near a firearm, yet they have 'friends' with arsenals under the bed!
I have spent time with their friends and they are lovely, warm hearted people. Why on earth they consider it perfectly normal to own several weapons is completely beyond me.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 21 Jul 12 at 21:41
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>> Why on earth they consider it perfectly normal to own several weapons is completely beyond me<<
As was pointed out this morning on the wireless "If others were packing a Glock along with their popcorn they could possibly have put an earlier end to his shooting spree".
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Anyone who believes that is a fool!
Darkened auditorium - CS gas - bunches of guys in various outfits opening fire.
Great idea.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sat 21 Jul 12 at 08:25
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>>Anyone who believes that is a fool!<<
“Potentially, if there had been a law-abiding citizen who had been able to carry in the theater, it’s possible the death toll would have been less.”
Taken from today's New York Times.
Clearly, there are many fools about these days.
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And potentially there would have been a bigger bloodbath and less survivors.
Too many people still seem to believe cowboy movies are historical records.
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He was allowded to buy these guns legally and no questions asked.Obama won't make any changes regarding the gun laws he is a good waffler.
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Upwards of 6000 rounds of ammo bought off the internet according to Auntie.
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Lunacy RP what was he going to do with them shooting rabbits?Amerika the land of the free!
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>> 6000 rounds of ammo bought off the internet
Firearms are a bit boring without ammo Rob.
I know a French hack who has, or used to have, a mint, unused Czech folding-stock AKM, the best model, in a cupboard in his Paris flat complete with bayonet, wire cutters and of course ammo.
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Wonder if iffy has something like that stashed in his caravan in Yorkshire ?
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Easy to get AC.Pop across to Belgium no question asked anything you like.
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So I understand Dutchie. But without a pressing need I'm not really tempted. Too many regulations here.
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Agree A.C I wouldn't like carrying a gun.I might be tempted with some people.
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Can you get us a couple of Uzi's when y'all next over that way Ducky.
:}
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You give me the money Dog see what I can do.(only kidding)
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Thanks Dutchie, I knew I could rely on you, of course you know what I want them for ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CBRTDA_mKI
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5 years for simply being in possession isn't it?
Baddies still use guns in the UK but usually against other baddies.
A few cases occur with those who (think they) have nothing to lose like young gang members.
I think arming the police would give rise to more baddies carrying weapons, but conversely if moe baddies carried guns, I think arming the police would become necessary.
Once the rabbit is out the hat it ain't gonna go back in.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sat 21 Jul 12 at 18:52
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No, you won't get that toothpaste back down the burrow.
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The genie back in the tube... the cat back in the bottle... the...
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>> I think arming the police would give rise to more baddies carrying weapons, but conversely
>> if moe baddies carried guns, I think arming the police would become necessary.
>>
From what I gather there may already be more armed officers than one imagines. In certain areas of course.
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I love that song Dog good clip>:) Done my good deed today build a hedgehock home looks good.Now wating for the hogs.
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I'll wager you're a good neighbour Dutchie, get-a-long-with-anybody type of guy, that's the way you come over to me anyway :)
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It's about time the yanks dragged themselves out of the 1700s and tightened up on gun sales.
Whenever this issue is raised it's the NRA and the gun lobby that defend their citizens right to own a gun for protection. I think it is a scare tactic to make the public there fear for their safety and put large bucks into the pockets of the gun industry. If that is the case and there were 15 million applications last year as well as current ownership, there must be a gun stowed in ALMOST every home, glove box or hand/man bag across the states in that case.
Well out of the 300 or so people who were in that theatre, there must of been at least ONE who was armed who could have taken a defensive shot at the madman who started first. That is what the NRA go on about. The right to defend oneself by having a gun. As this did not happen, that's that argument dispelled, isn't it? It didn't work here, it didn't work at Columbine, didn't work on numerous other occasions. The only one's to get away with it are the nutters who are free to arm themselves to the teeth under this RIGHT. When has any other citizen managed to put these numbsculls out of their misery. No it doesn't happen. It's either the law enforcers or a suicide job.
Whoever gets in as president this year, I hope this will give them an opportunity to amend the current lust for guns. All this incident will do is make more people get a gun or bigger guns under a myth that it will protect them.
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i think all the batman nerds in the audiance thought he was promo stunt until the claret started spilling....too late by then
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The cast and crew who made the movie are said to be 'devastated' by this event. I can't think why really, unless they were there.
Even more bizarrely, people have been saying they will boycott the film. Totally barmy. It has been very well reviewed.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 22 Jul 12 at 17:12
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It's the "we must show grief for folks we don't know" culture.
Goes with flowers and soft toys left at a scene of a death or similar.
I will empathise with the best of them if I know the victim(s) - but total strangers - nope.
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Well Roger, you are correct but you won't get a job with the Daily Express with attitudes like that! ;-)
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If the USA does not change the laws surrounding gun ownership then little will change. It will happen again. Access to weapons and then someone decides to kill then what can you do?
It's a real shame the cinema let in the 6 year old girl with her mother consider the film if a PG13 in the USA. But that's not really connected to the tragedy that unfolded of course - just me saying if they hadn't let her in she'd still be okay/alive.
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>> If the USA does not change the laws surrounding gun ownership
It will never ever change.
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>> It will never ever change.
I don't think it will either. No president in power wants to make that change because they'd lose the next election.
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>> It will never ever change.
Everything changes sooner or later. But it will be uphill work for anyone who wants to change it.
Consider for example the current President's wish to extend health insurance to the poor, and the rabidly fascist response to it by the, er, private medicine lobby. The various lobbies, congress members and senators for sale, Fox News and its many avatars in the media, have any administration more or less swamped and surrounded. It's a goddam banana republic, to quote a late friend.
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More guns than people in the US.
They're going nowhere.
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For some reason Americans are deeply touchy if you suggest their lax and backwards gun laws have anything to do with the enormous number of gun-related deaths in the USA.
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Mr Ecs raises a good challenge. I'm sure the NRA can cite cases where an armed, upstanding citizen has saved innocent lives but that doesn't seem to be the rule.
A chap I know went to work in Russia a few years ago. He was advised to employ a driver to take him to work, and run his wife and children around, as a security precaution. He could have an unarmed driver for $600 a month, or an armed one for $700. He preferred the unarmed one, one the grounds that the the chance of somebody getting shot is in proportion to the number of guns on the scene.
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...where an armed, upstanding citizen has saved innocent lives but that doesn't seem to be the rule...
I reckon many people in that 'movie theater' will have been gun owners, but only the killer was carrying one.
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I was thinkin gabout this on the way to work and listening to the radio. First world country with third world availability to weapons. A contradiction.
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Strange country the States.Met nice people very Christian some of them.They blow your brains out without thinking about it.Of course the gun laws got everything to do with it.If you got a short fuse and you carry a weapon the use of it is tempting.
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There's a crucial difference between psychopathic gun fantasies - pretty well universal in males who have seen any movies or television - and the psychopathic behaviour of those who invent an excuse for putting those fantasies into practice. Crackpot religious cults and crackpot politics, regrettably both widespread in the US (but by no means unknown elsewhere, even here), make it easier for semi-alienated twerps and nerds to dehumanize some chosen category of victim. No one would trust an excitable eight-year-old with a loaded Uzi or Kalash, would they? In effect though such weapons are available in some US states, and in Norway for example, to adults with the mentality of eight-year-olds. It's not at all unusual for such people to be competent in practical matters. It's just their overall attitude that's doolally.
One doesn't want to exaggerate the numbers of such people, but there's no need to. In a population of 60 million, let alone one of 150 million plus, there are going to be plenty. And there's no system anywhere for detecting and monitoring them before they go overcentre and do it.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 23 Jul 12 at 14:02
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>> Crackpot religious cults and crackpot politics
Although these are commonly involved, they aren't always the cause of the behaviour. The Denver cinema nutter seems to be an extreme narcissist of a very weird sort.
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>> >> Crackpot religious cults and crackpot politics
>>
>> Although these are commonly involved, they aren't always the cause of the behaviour. The Denver
>> cinema nutter seems to be an extreme narcissist of a very weird sort.
with only one traffic violation to his name....must make everyone on this site a complete psycho then?
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>> only one traffic violation to his name....must make everyone on this site a complete psycho then?
People on this site are far worse obviously. Many of them claim never to have done anything wrong at all, and think a parking ticket from some tinpot council is like a summons for manslaughter.
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Having watched the footage of Holmes in the court yesterday it appeared to me he was on some kind of drug from his facial expressions. A close up showed his pupils widely dilated.
There is one part of the link Dog posted that makes you think a little:
"That brings us back to police Chief Oates. How does a neuro-science student get thier hands on para-military gear, 6,000 rounds of ammunition, and explosive devices plus the abilities to construct highly sophisticated booby traps that require the best experts to dismantle. In our Patriot Act era, when the wrong book taken out of your local public library can cause you to be a person of interest, how does a college student buying all these things over the last few months escape everyone's scrutiny."
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>>There is one part of the link Dog posted that makes you think a little<<
Look at his eyes Mr. Ecs - as they are now, then compare them to the other shooters in that video.
Something strange is going on there by the looks of it, possibly drug related.
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>> Oh dear!
YEEE ha ha ha ha ha ha ....
Ho ho ho...
Snigger. Burp.
BLAM BLAM BLAM Aieee!... gurgle
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 25 Jul 12 at 01:22
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There must already be millions of guns floating around in America. They would still be around for criminals and nutters to get hold of even if all guns were banned tomorrow.
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>> Oh dear!
>>
>> www.news24.com/World/News/Gun-sales-soar-after-Batman-attack-20120724
They should rename Aurora to Dodge City, or Tombstone.
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Crazy situation they going around in circles. I wonder sometimes if they have lost the plot in some states in the USA.
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www.ditisamerika.nl/amerikaanse-cultuur/amerika-en-wapens/
Familys in America with wapens interesting to watch.Scroll down open the clip.
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Where is the caped crusader when you need him?
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My better halve wanted to see the film today.Three hrs with the commercials I nodded off for a bit.>:)
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Batman shooting - R.P.
