I always understood that new engines used a bit of oil in the first few thousand miles. That's certainly been the case with the other new cars I've had custody of over the years (Ford, Renault, Peugeot, Daewoo). According to its electronic oil level measuring system, at 5225 miles, the 320d is still at Max on the virtual dipstick. It is also still 15000 miles off its first service.
Is this lack of oil consumption normal nowadays? Although run in within the spirit, if not the letter of the running in rules, the car is driven fairly hard, and I would have expected at least some drop in level by now. I guess part of me is a little distrustful of the electronic reading, but the fact that it is not showing the kind of behaviour I expected is not helping.
What do you think? Do new cars still use oil, or has this gone the way of 10k service intervals and turbo simmering?
cheers
DP
Last edited by: DP on Sun 17 Jun 12 at 20:45
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Oil consumption and dilution of the oil with diesel running at the same rate probably ;-)
Neither my Forester Turbo or Shogun used any oil in their first 20000 and 10000 miles respectively.
Gaffers FRV hasn't needed a top up in almost 40,000 miles (12.5k between services). Her CRV before that was the same.
Last car I had that needed a drink every so often was my old Civic 1.8 VTi - would use 0.5litres/1000 miles (think that started at around 80 or 90k miles).
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 17 Jun 12 at 20:52
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>>Oil consumption and dilution of the oil with diesel running at the same rate probably ;-)<<
I'm with this geezer.
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Not had the "luxury" (or the expense) of a new car since 1973, but I'd assume that due to more accurate manufacturing tolerances on new engines these days, there is virtually no bedding-in required and they are effectively run in as soon as you turn the key for the first time, hence they don't burn the oil while the various ruogh bits inside get knocked into shape :-)
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not had a new car use any oil at all from new since 2003.
Thats a renault, a seat, a VW. The lancer has consumed no oil at all since it arrived with me at 19k. Its stays exactly on he full mark for 12k miles before i dump it out.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 17 Jun 12 at 20:57
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My C5 didnt use any oil in our 3 years together. Mrs B's Sharan only had 1 oil top up, and that was while it was on long life servicing just as the service light came on so would have been around 18K. Its not used any since, and its now on 80 odd K.
I think engines that need top ups between services are now quite rare
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I was musing this very thought today. The X1 seems not to use any. The 3 Series is still on the max but I've not done enough miles yet to register I guess.
The GS was swallowing oil in-between the time I bought it and the first service. I was topping up after every trip. Goes for its service, comes back and it's as if someone threw a switch, none used in a thousand miles...
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My Ceed has not used any oil between services. No DPF = no oil dilution. :-)
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>The GS was swallowing oil in-between the time I bought it and the first service.
Don't know if it's still the case but the Small Block in my Chevy Z28 (and Corvettes) came from the factory filled with dino oil to encourage 'bedding-in' of rings and bores. The oil level was about half way down the dipstick when it went for the first service when it was swapped for synthetic.
Hasn't used a drop since.
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The bike uses semi synth. All three boxers I've owned have had mysterious and inconsistent oil consumption....trouble is on a decently long trip you have to find space to carry a litre bottle of top up, but sod's law dictates it's never been an issue despite rigorous monitoring and heavy use (speed and loads). Then I'll pop out for a paper and it's top up time ! Mind of their own them German bikes.
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Didn't i read somewhere it was due to using the centre stand or the side stand?
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On side stand the oil runs into the head = smokey start.
Centre stand = no smokey start.
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You're right - the modern HP2 engined ones are much better in that respect.
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>> The GS was swallowing oil in-between the time I bought it and the first service.
>> I was topping up after every trip. Goes for its service, comes back and it's
>> as if someone threw a switch, none used in a thousand miles...
>>
Different oil perhaps? My Saab was burning a little before the last oil change, when I used the normal 5W30 Mobil 1. Switched to Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 at the last change (172,000 miles) and it hasn't burnt any since.
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I wondered that as well - I meant to ask at service time. May check out the UKGS forum - probably a question asked before. Another thing I found out was that the Germans have cheated on the EU noise regs. The bike passes the drive by noise test. As soon as you accelerate beyond this there is a bowden cable operated valve that lets it make a more expresive sound - who says they haven't got a sense of humour.
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Maybe I have been lucky but my two most recent cars have not consumed oil.
My previous BMW(real metal dipstick) didn't consume a drop of oil between services, the longest of which was a 19000 mile interval.
Present Audi (electronic dipstick) had first oil change at 17000 miles. Oil level still read "Full" the day i took it to service.
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No oil used on the Focus diesel either between services.
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Let's rephrase the original post:
Anyone had a modern (say post-2000) car need repairs due to bore wear?
(except for 'known problem' cars like Toyota Avensis and some big Beemers).
I reckon manufacturing tolerances play a big part (eg. Jap cars of the 70s vs Euro cars for engine life) but also oil technology seems vastly superior to 20w50 and the era of 'sludged' engines.
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and some Volkswagens
So thats three makes of cars
I haven't had a nackered engine due to bore wear since 1973. I think it disappeared in the early 60's.
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Isn't the VW thing to do with direct fuel injection?
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yeah iffy injector patterns, but still bore wear!
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And pistons in chunks I see to recall.
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Well known in biking circles, Jap bikes didn''t use oil, Brit bikes did. The rest is history. (with the exception of Hinkley Triumph.)
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2001 Octavia used no oil for its first 1000 miles, 1 litre from 1000 to 1500 miles and never used a drop again in 300,000 miles.
2005 Mondeo TDCi will use half a dipstick in the last 2,500 miles before a service (every 12,500).
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>> but also oil technology seems vastly superior to 20w50 and the era of 'sludged' engines
I saw an advert in a classic car magazine recently, Castrol have started to sell that "hard-to-find" "classic" 20w50 oil for only £23.99 per 4.5 litres. In a "classic" branded metal can too.
I'm not that old, but I can remember buying plastic gallon cans of the stuff for about 4 quid from any petrol station :)
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I remember my mate putting ASDA £2.99/gallon 20w50 into his Escort RS Turbo (which his mum thought was a 1.3 with a bodykit...) back around 1990.
20 years on and my 1.6 N/A Swift pushes out slightly more bhp than the Scrote Turbo did - don't think I'd put 20w50 in that (0w20 is recommended).
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My 98 Mondeo was bought at 80K miles and it is now at 145K.
Never used any oil. Never dropped any oil.
Drip trays seem to have disappeared. They were often a feature of front drives or something to boot into beyond from a garage floor.
No oily patches on drives and much smaller patches on roads where yumping cannot be avoided. Black trails on the centre of carriageways seem to have all but disappeared. Even road pillows seem clean.
IIRC oil leaks were useful for stopping sumps rusting :-)
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>Anyone had a modern (say post-2000) car need repairs due to bore wear?
That's a good starting point for bore wear problems.
The bore wear suffered by engines from BMW, Jag, Porsche and others was due to the high sulphur content in UK fuels in the mid 90's. It damaged the Nikasil coating on the cylinder bores resulting in low compression.
Low sulphur fuels have been standard in the UK since around the turn of the century.
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>>since around the turn of the century.
12yrs in and I still automatically think of 1900!
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>12yrs in and I still automatically think of 1900!
I can't remember that one.
;-)
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Mrs gmac's C4 GP 1.6 diesel hasn't used a drop and I can (seemingly) see it now through a revised dipstick.
Coming up 8 year old S60 D5 doesn't use a drop now the intercooler has been replaced and still clean oil 1500 miles after the last service.
GSX-R750 used a minute amount of bedding in oil, keeping the revs down to 7000rpm (95mph) for the first 500 miles before extending to 10,500rpm for the next 300 before the oil change. Can't wait for the 1000 miles to click over so I can really see what I've bought.
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I can hardly remember the last car I owned which needed topping up between oil changes.
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Out of a mere 6 cars spanning 20 years, I've never head a car that needed topping up between changes and that includes a Morris Ital (sporty Giugiaro-styled version of the Marina for those too young to remember).
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Only had one car in 30 years and an awful lot of miles which ever used oil between services and that was a Vauxhall Signum 2.2 petrol. Maybe there was something wrong with it.
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Our A4 (which has a 2.0T petrol engine) used to need a top-up at around 12k miles. It was on variable servicing and generally went 15k miles before 'needing' a service. Since the annual mileage dropped to nearer 6k miles it's never needed topping up between services, and its now on a time based service schedule. This level of consumption is a 'feature' of the 2.0T engine I believe - certainly doesn't seem to have done it any harm, though at 55k miles it is of course still a youngster. Although linking in to another thread, we've had it almost 5 years and I see no reason to change it in the foreseeable future...
ISTR that a PD130 A4 also needed topping up between services, but I can't recall any other new car we've owned needing one. Coming back to the car the OPs question was about, that includes a number of petrol and diesel BMWs, including a 120d that probably had an earlier derivative of the engine in the current 320d.
A second hand '84 Escort XR3i had a thirst for oil, but I suspect it hadn't had an easy life before I owned it; I of course drove it very carefully indeed :-)
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The PD engine in my old Roomster liked to sip the (expensive) lubricant now and then !
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>> Only had one car in 30 years and an awful lot of miles which ever
>> used oil between services and that was a Vauxhall Signum 2.2 petrol.
No two 2.2 engines are the same.
My previous 53 reg Vectra 2.2 used a litre of oil approx every 2,500 miles, but my current 06 Vectra 2.2 doesn't use a drop of oil between its annual service (anything between 10,000 to 12,000 miles)
The 53 reg only had 36,000 miles on it when I wrote it off.
My 06 now has 75,000 miles on it.
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I'm used to engines not using oil when bedded in, but I've never had one before that didn't use any during the running in period, and in the few thousand miles afterwards. My Megane dCi and 306 XSi needed top ups by 1500 miles, although both settled down very soon afterwards.
The running in rules for this 320d were very specific in the manual, and were prescribed for a whopping 1200 miles, so if the engine is already run in when fitted to the car, BMW seem to be suggesting otherwise in the handbook.
The potential for dilution of the oil with diesel occurred to me as well, and it does make you wonder how, if this is the case, it is compatible with the computer projecting the first oil change at 20,000 miles. I'd like to think the logic behind this was based on good engineering practice rather than the need to pander to the all important fleet market / lease companies, but I'm a bit cynical for that nowadays.
The big plus in all this of course, is that of course it's not my car, and I'm likely to be shot of it before any problems occur as a result of oil changes.
Cheers
DP
Last edited by: DP on Mon 18 Jun 12 at 15:28
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For what it's worth my 318d has not required any oil between services since I got it (March 2010).
I wondered about the service intervals as well but mine has been serviced at 18000 and 38000 when it asked for it and is now predicting the next one in 6000 miles time at 59000, it probably makes a difference that that includes 400+ motorway miles each week and has for most of its life.
Again, it's not my car, any long term problems from long oil changes are some future owner's problem
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>> The running in rules for this 320d were very specific in the manual, and were
>> prescribed for a whopping 1200 miles, so if the engine is already run in when
>> fitted to the car, BMW seem to be suggesting otherwise in the handbook.
My Forester also has very specific rules for the first 1000 miles but with oil changes every 12 months/12000 miles. I did follow them and at 4000 miles oil level is still at the full mark. More oil dilution? However the last car I had that used any oil during running in was a 1994 Golf and even that stopped after 5000 miles.
alfalfa
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>> The running in rules for this 320d were very specific in the manual, and were
>> prescribed for a whopping 1200 miles, so if the engine is already run in when
>> fitted to the car, BMW seem to be suggesting otherwise in the handbook.
>>
What were they DP ? I'm curious why they'd bother to specify a meticulous running in schedule then not bother changing the oil and filter for another c. 19k miles ?
Suzuki specified rev limits not to exceed for the first 500, 800 and 1000 miles for my bike and also a scheduled oil + filter change between 600 and 1000 miles to get any bits that shouldn't be floating around in there out.
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Oil consumption on new engines - Lygonos
