Haven't read all the text, but the one exterior picture at the bottom is a bit disappointing.
EDIT: just found "For a start, it looks better in the metal than in pictures and while the design does not break any boundaries, the look is sleek and clean"
Last edited by: Focus on Wed 28 Apr 10 at 22:40
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The MG6 will be available initially only with a 1.8-litre turbo-charged petrol engine. This is a development of the old K Series power plant,
Oh my guidy aunt! a turbocharged K series 1.8!
>though the notorious head gasket problems have been sorted, according to MG
my money says its not
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It will be pitched at the lower end of the market so it may well sell quite well. The reviews I have read suggest although the quality is good it is not upto Ford or Vauxhall standards and is is a long way off BMW but then so are the prices.
The new N (I think) series engines uses a modified head gasket and the cooling system has been modified so the head gasket problems will be largely sorted but time will tell.
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A recent test in Autocar reckons it drives as well as a current Focus and is quite a bit roomier.
The styling looks a bit Proton from the front, imo, but otherwise it looks quite smart.
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ive read all the words in the link
not impreseed but then i never was
mandarin anyone?
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Cecil Kimber must be spinning in his grave.
I never was much of an MG fan (except for the Magnette ZB Varitone). I always told people they started in the early 1920s making souped-up Morris Oxfords and went out of business nearly 60 years later still doing exactly the same thing.
However, they had credibility, which this thing - or things to come - never will.
Why do they call it '6' when it has four cylinders (with probably the worst reputation in the motor industry) and four wheels?
You might have thought 'Austin Rover' or whatever it ended up being called had made all the mistakes with dragging famous names through the mire, but apparently not.
Longbridge should have been flattened, built over and forgotten long before now. Like the marques that are now just marketing brands its status as a motoring industry icon has long since been devalued and destroyed.
Put these kit cars together in a shed outside the Tilbury or Southampton container terminal if you must. Why contribute to 'global warming' by transporting stuff all the way to Birmingham from the port? A job is a job wherever it's created and those of us with fairly long memories will recall the Longbridge workforce cheerfully squandering any respect they may once have enjoyed. Indeed, many of us will have been victims of the way they chose to treat their customers.
Anyway, I don't think I'll ever see one of these pastiches of real cars with real names without hearing the distant strains of the 'Ying Tong Song'...
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Thu 29 Apr 10 at 10:10
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There's an interesting interview with the MG sales & marketing director here:
www.aronline.co.uk/wordpress/2010/04/23/guy-jones-interview/
Basically, they've ended up with the MG name because, after BMW got rid of Rover Group, the only marques still actively used were MG and Rover, and JLR ended up with Rover. It's called the MG 6 because Nanjing called their Chinese-built Rover 75 the MG 7, and it's a bit smaller than that. They also build the Rover StreetWise in China as the MG 3, although the all-new hatchback that's just been unveiled in Beijing will probably replace it.
And hasn't most of Longbridge been flattened and built over already?
It will be interesting to see how the MG 6 fares over here. It's worth noting that all the new Roewe/MG models since the Chinese takeover have been designed and engineered in the UK.
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Nobody needs or wants this car in Europe. We all know that MG Rover effectively died a few years ago.
There are too many car manufacturers, brands, plants, and models out there. The smaller ones are gradually going to go to the wall. Who needs Perodua or Proton in the UK? Cars like this might sell in the new emerging markets of the world (China, India, etc..) but the average European consumer can see straight through them for what they are.
Similarly, a Chinese-built Volvo may well sell well in China, but we in Europe won't have the wool pulled over our eyes
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>> Nobody needs or wants this car in Europe.
Anything which brings manufacturing, and hence jobs, to the UK is desirable.
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It doesn't look very much like a sports car, more like my Hyundai.
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>> Similarly a Chinese-built Volvo may well sell well in China but we in Europe won't
>> have the wool pulled over our eyes
Is that kiwi sheep wool nick? shouldnt your handle be NickinEurope?
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I've just gone down to Lonbridge this afternoon (well in the past minute) it only took me 10 seconds to get there too. It beats going down the M6!
maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&q=longbridge+birmingham&fb=1&gl=uk&ei=VeTaS-CxB4y7jAfencHGCA&ved=0CBMQpQY&view=map&geocode=FcV9HwMdUc7h_w&split=0&sll=52.396095,-1.977592&sspn=0.002190,0.002816&iwloc=A&sa=X
It seems about half of the area has been flattened and the rest is the MG factory. It looks like the factory is still quite large and could still employ 1000's of people.
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From what I have been reading in the past, a new college is being built on the north site.
The culvert river will be uncovered as well.
Could end up looking nice.
Shame the ex rover work force wont have anything to do though.
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You might think twice about saying that if you'd ever owned anything built there.
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>> Shame the ex rover work force wont have anything to do though.
good, they were crap at building cars.
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Blame the unions and management, I don't know if it is fair to blame the assembly workers. Maybe they did deserve the blame I don't know.
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Autoexpress Driver Power Top 100:
Rover 75: Position 7 overall
MG ZT: Position 15 overall
Really rubbish, aren't they?
Should have bought French. Er, maybe not. Although the Megane is doing well.
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I noticed that too but it may well be because they were very cheap on the used market so some people may have got real bargains. The Rover 75 when it doesn't have a K series lump is a damn good car.
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It was only the 1.8 K that was troublesome. The short-lived 2.0 and the bigger 2.5 were good engines. If the headgasket on the 1.8 was fixed properly using the upgraded kit then they rarely gave trouble again.
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Try telling my uncle that, he had plenty of K series cars, the head gasket would go in all of them. He sold his MG (rover 25 type) which had a 1.6 K series in it when it was 1 year old and less than 20k because he knew the hg would go.
The 2.0 was the T series wasn't it?
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I only know about the bigger K's. If the 1.8 was fixed properly then the incidence of HGF was much reduced. The problem was some were bodged - I've even heard cases of the stretch bolts been used a second time. Bad idea.
The 2.0 in the 75 was a V6 but was soon dropped. It was a bit underpowered for the heavy 75 and barely any more economical than the 2.5 KV6. The 2.0 T series was never fitted in the 75, it seeing light of day in the 800.
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I always remember a story about an OAP customer of mine who bought a Rover 75 he was very pleased with it. It had the infamous 1.8 K series. I didn't dare mention the HG.
Two weeks later his engine went bang on the M60 due to a major head gasket failure. His 'mate' had conned him. The engine could not be re-skimmed because the HG had gone before so he decided to get a re conditioned engine. He paid £2500 for the new engine and four years later he still drives it. He thinks it is a lovely car despite its earlier problem.
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I had an MG ZT for two years (2.5 V6), so can actually give some informed comment. My ZT was one of the best cars I've ever owned. It's one of the few cars I've bitterly regretted selling, even as it disappeared up the road.
Great road presence, not a squeak or rattle and never let me down. Superb handling and great over long distances. You can pick them up for under £2000 now. Bangernomics never got better..
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When I moved to the Midlands 3 years ago I was struck by the sheer number of MG/Rover cars around here, compared to Beds/Herts where Vauxhalls and Fords seemed to outnumber everything else on the road. The boy racer car of choice around here seems to be the MG ZR these days, maybe the MG 6 will come with a 2ft high MG decal on the side and a choice of neon blue or green colour schemes.
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Local pride I guess.
Go into any indie club here in Manchester and all you hear is the Smiths, Oasis, James, The Fall, Joy Divison, New Order etc. Go to one down south and its different bands but the same music.
I suppose all the clubs in the a Midlands play err UB40.
If there was a big factory down my road producing cars and I knew a lot of people that worked there I would be much more likely to buy one.
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Remins me a bit of a shrunken Insignia. Looks modern and if they keep prices low, they can build from the bottom like Korea has done - there are few genuine value brands now and since MG is basically known for turning our glorified kitcars in its last years, might aswell sell to that market - car wouldnt have to be exceptional, just competant and reliable.
Im all for giving companies a chance to turn around - so many brands that we value today were virtually nothing 20 years ago ( Skoda and Seat to name a couple ).
Good luck to them.
Last edited by: stunorthants29 on Mon 3 May 10 at 22:09
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It looks more like that new Toyota to me, not sure what the model is but its Mondeo size. A neighbour has an 09 one (the only one I have ever seen on the road).
My worry is these MGs built in knock down kit form will have the build quality of a mid 80's FIAT at first until they iron out all the niggle bits of trim that dosn't quite fit properly.
ALso I am not sure if MG as a brand is worth that much now. It would have worked better if they did what the Alchemy group wanted to do and turn MG into a pure sports car brand like Lotus.
That said if the price was right I would certainly buy one of the modern MGs, maybe their new supermini will appeal to me when my Panda is paid off.
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Rattle, you are a one. Last week you were pondering potential future major problems with the Panda and this week you are looking to your next choice.
Enjoy it when it arrives! ;-)
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And, they're off.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-13054842
Great news.
I'd like one, as soon as there's a diesel auto available......
Where are the dealers though? A virtual pint to the first person to find an MG6 for sale on Autotrader.
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...Where are the dealers though?...
Looks like there's about 50.
The one nearest to Iffy Towers which had the new TF convertible is no longer, but has been replaced by another a few miles away.
www.mg.co.uk/find-a-dealer.html
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Nearest one to me would be Penzance, which is too far,
especially as we're moving back towards the moor next week.
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>> including the equipment at the Longbridge factory, were sold to Chinese carmaker Nanjing
Nanjing, wonder if that has any relation to the Nanjing cigarette maker. I had one of those when i was at uni, i remember it was the finest cigarette i'd ever tried. The box was of the traditional type but the material was thick card, finished with a thick gloss over red with embossed gold. Felt very high quality.
The fag was stronger by at least a factor of 5 than anything on the UK market, but it wasn't a harsh strong like Marlboro red tops, it was really smooth and refined. It was the first time i'd ever associated China with extremely high quality.
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>
>> The fag was stronger by at least a factor of 5 than anything on the
>> UK market, but it wasn't a harsh strong like Marlboro red tops, it was really
>> smooth and refined.
Harsh and strong? Marlboro reds?
You snivelling wimp.
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Only had five of those today. I'm "allowed" one more...Think I'll have it now...
:-)
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Ah. Nearest to me is Datchet.
Really looking forward to seeing these cars on the road. I hope it's the birth of a British BMW. Their plans for a supermini class vehicle (unfortunately named Zero at the moment) look tempting.
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>>unfortunately named Zero at the moment<<
I guess that will be a BIG failure then :)
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I think anyone who takes on an MG franchise will need to sell another marque as well, just to keep a roof over his head and keep food on the table. These things are not going to sell in any great volume at any price. How many TFs have been sold in the last 12 months? 265 sold in the first 9 months of 2009 BTW
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Wed 13 Apr 11 at 14:46
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Well the dealer in Datchet does Ford and SEAT also, so I think they'll be all right. They used to be the major MG Rover dealer in the area.
I've a sneaking suspicion the new MG6s will be more popular than bargained for.
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Most of the K series engine problems were sorted by Ford-they used that engine when they owned Land-Rover.
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No they werent. The Freelander was the worst of the lot! TD5 engines were dodgy from new aswell, some didnt even make it to the customer without a new engine.
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" The Freelander was the worst of the lot"
And yet - the Freelander 2 seems a pretty good car? Was wondering this morning as I delivered a new model Jag XJ, having delivered an XF on Monday, several XFRs and XKs in the past why WE couldn't produce cars of this quality. Not had the pleasure of being an owner of any of these but have driven them for several hundred miles and am most impressed. The XJ struck me as a fantastic car and such an improvement on the S Type. Same with XF and X Type. How come they have to be owned by the Indians before these brands are revived?? By the way, the XJ (diesel 3.0 litre??) did over 45 mpg on a 100 mile trip from Midlands to N Yorks, mainly motorway but not bad for a car that size.
Phil
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Couple who we're buying our next property from run a Freelander 2 and have had no problems with it at all,
It's like saying French cars are a PITA - the vast majority are completely reliable, more so these days,
It's easy for a product to get a bad name, like Hoover washing machines did at one time, and Rover certainly did,
but I still seem to see many Rovers running around Cornwall, and their owners are quite happy with them.
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>> It's easy for a product to get a bad name, like Hoover washing machines did
As I mentioned on another recent thread, we own a Hoover washing machine that is still going strong after 24 years.
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>>we own a Hoover washing machine that is still going strong after 24 years<<
b'Jaysus! ... I should have stuck a new bearing in my excellent 15 year old AEG,
Too late now though - I've agreed to take over a Beko at 'the cottage'.
:(
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>> The XJ struck me as a fantastic
>> car and such an improvement on the S Type. Same with XF and X Type.
Being pedantic, didn't the XF replace the S Type?
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Seen a few Rover 45s over the last week. All had rusting rear wheel arches. I suppose they are quite old but should still be okay if galvanised.
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"Being pedantic, didn't the XF replace the S Type?"
Quite right Focus, - and new XJ replaced old XJ I suppose. Still a great improvement though?
Can't be bad, stopped at services and a chap in a 10 reg S class MB came and said " could I have a look at your (!!!) new XJ". Was thinking of replacing his S Class with an XJ.
He seemed quite impressed and I suspect he knew far more about that class of car than me!!
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>> "Being pedantic, didn't the XF replace the S Type?"
>> Quite right Focus, - and new XJ replaced old XJ I suppose. Still a great
>> improvement though?
No doubt. However I'd settle for a 3.0 S Type as a replacement for the Focus when the time comes...
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Freelander 1 wasnt good. I worked at a LR dealer for a while, but what would I know :-)
LR did eventually upgrade the head gasket but they dragged their heals for years despite knowing of the problem.
A good car isnt always a reliable one and ive read a few disaster stories about the 2 aswell, seem a bit hit and miss. Range Rover isnt all its cracked up to be reliablity-wise either, they go through axles pretty quick, a customer of mine treats the axle like a service item - 3 new shape RRs, 4 axles in 5 years. Do I see a pattern... :-)
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>> Most of the K series engine problems were sorted by Ford-they used that engine when
>> they owned Land-Rover.
>>
LOL - not sure if you are being sarcastic......
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You would hope so wouldnt you...
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Quote from the article
Marketing manager Guy Jones, who joined MG after his previous employers, West Midlands van firm LDV, went to the wall in October last year, showed me round the refurbished visitors’ centre. It has plush conference and training facilities, as well as a large showroom.
Well is that is all they need then! A salesman from a dinosaur white van company, plush conference centre, large showroom... all that is missing is the smoke and mirrors.
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...Well is that is all they need then!...
Oh dear, knock, knock, knock.
So they employ a bloke with industry experience and invest a bit in training.
Big deal.
Why are so many people so desperate to see this enterprise fail?
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>> ...Well is that is all they need then!...
>>
>> Oh dear, knock, knock, knock.
>>
>> So they employ a bloke with industry experience and invest a bit in training.
>>
>> Big deal.
No, they employ a man with a proven track record of failure in the industry.
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"No, they employ a man with a proven track record of failure in the industry. "
Does that imply that everybody who worked for LDV are unemployable because a firm that once employed them has gone down the tubes?
Strange thinking in my book.
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...strange thinking in my book...
It's just a load of cobblers.
One man who worked for a company that went bust does not have 'a proven track record of failure'.
Zero has no idea what this guy's track record is.
Usual unsubstantiated claptrap from the Surrey commuter belt.
Last edited by: Iffy on Thu 14 Apr 11 at 11:01
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usual stuck record called iffy,
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...usual stuck record called iffy...
...usual unsubstantiated claptrap from zero...
Zero,
For once, let's have some evidence for your bold statements.
You have described this bloke as having a 'track record of failure'.
Where is the proof?
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Marketing manager, LDV, poor sales, bankrupt.
Proof.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 14 Apr 11 at 11:24
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...Proof....
Not to me.
More information required before we brand this man professionally incompetent.
LDV could have failed despite his best efforts.
Or he could be a jerk who hastened its demise.
The truth, I suspect, is somewhere in between.
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>> "No, they employ a man with a proven track record of failure in the industry.
>> "
>>
>> Does that imply that everybody who worked for LDV are unemployable because a firm that
>> once employed them has gone down the tubes?
>>
>> Strange thinking in my book.
Everyone in LDV wasn't directly responsible for marketing, marketing that sells vans, vans that didnt sell. So yes, he has a record of failure. If I were starting a new company, one with a name that has a lot of baggage, I would want the best in sales and marketing not one who failed to make one thrive, wouldn't you?
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If the LDV product was garbage, which I understand that it was, nobody is going to be able to sell many of them. It is a failure of top management, design and production and not the sales dept!
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I rephrase my comments.
A proven track record of failure since 2004
Guy Jones's Summary
Dynamic commercial manager with a track record of establishing and developing international brands and a strong technical background. Has held board level positions with P&L responsibility, developing and delivering successful business expansions and brand tunrarounds. Proven track record in product management, marketing, PR sales and network development. Passionate leader and communicator. Significant international experience from managing markets and programmes in Europe, Americas, Russia, China, Australasia and Africa. Broad commercial experience from blue chip brands to start up businesses managing manufacturers, national sales companies, importers and dealers.
Specialties
Business planning
International brand development
Innovative high efficiency marketing, especially digital media
Internal and external corporate communications and crisis management
Government liason and lobbying
Global product launches, management and pricing
Electric and low carbon vehicles
Premium brands
Guy Jones's Experience
Sales and Marketing Director
MG Motor UK Ltd
Privately Held; Automotive industry
September 2009 – Present (1 year 8 months)
Marketing and PR Director
LDV Group Limited
Automotive industry
October 2008 – November 2009 (1 year 2 months)
Retail Sales Director
LDV Group Limited
Automotive industry
December 2006 – September 2008 (1 year 10 months)
Marketing Manager
MG Rover
Automotive industry
2004 – 2005 (1 year)
Director of Product and Marketing
Kia Motors UK
Automotive industry
July 2000 – April 2004 (3 years 10 months)
Bentley Brand Manager
Rolls-Royce Motor Cars
Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; Automotive industry
1996 – 2000 (4 years)
Bentley Brand Manager
Bentley Motors Ltd
Automotive industry
1996 – 1998 (2 years)
Aftersales and brand management
Land Rover
Automotive industry
1991 – 1995 (4 years)
Guy Jones's Education
University of Bradford
1987 – 1991
Handsworth Grammar School
1980 – 1985
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... proven track record of failure since 2004...
Did he 'fail' during one year at MG Rover?
I've no idea.
Looks like three years at LDV.
Might have failed there, but he might not.
He's been with the current MG since 2009.
Until now, the company has only really been selling the TF via a handful of dealers.
So I don't think he can be labelled a success or failure - yet.
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In the high flying world of shifting tin for cash, there is "achievement" or there is failure.
I don't see "achievement" stamped all over that work record for the last 8 years, do you?
It certainly doesn't say "there is a man who will be killing past baggage, breaking into new sales fields, making MG desirable and sought after again, breaking all sales targets"
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 14 Apr 11 at 12:24
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To be honest, it seems to stretch back beyond 8 years. Kia seems to have taken off as a brand since 2004, for instance.
Looking at this record however, it does seem the this gentleman specialises in trying to market rubbish. He often seems to be in the wrong place at the right time. All his previous employers have seen upturns in fortunes after his departure, however this doesn't of course mean it was his departure which did the trick. LDV is the only one that's gorn under. Bentley, for instance, is a far more common sight on the roads now, but that's more down to its ownership and model range than its marketing I think. Likewise KIA - much better products since 2004.
If I were a prospective employer perusing this CV, I'd be circumspect but I wouldn't be ruling him out before interview.
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A move from Sales to Marketing? hmm?
Years ago I remember making a statement about somebody else who made the same sort of move. It went along the lines of -' if only he could sell the product as well as he can sell himself......'
I am sure Zero has seen similar over his lifetime.
From my original post, I feel I lit the blue touch paper and stood well back.
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>>Why are so many people so desperate to see this enterprise fail?<<
Not want to see it fail, just know that it will, two different things. Id like Button or Hamilton to win the championship this year, but if I was putting my money on the line, id pick Vettel.
Would you invest your heard earned in MG? Or would you prefer to go with BMW or Hyundai?
Optimism is great and I do hope that MG survives, but on the face of it, this new car needed to be dirt cheap and its not, which was the only redeeming feature you can bestow on a toxic failed brand like MG to get initial punters in.
Then in 5 years time if its still going, peoples memories fade and the cars are judged on their merits. Given the UKs rather iffy views on China anyway, a Chinese MG is hardly an obvious route to business success.
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I think MG has more residual goodwill among the public than many on here think.
A small example: When I looked at the TF, a woman in the showroom said to her partner: "Oo look - it's an MG."
The company may not deserve this goodwill, but that doesn't matter.
Can we assume the Chinese have the financial clout and the will to back MG in the short and medium term?
If so, and if the car is built to a reasonable standard, then the company could prosper.
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2 local dealers for me! Both ex rover dealers and family owned. They have branched into other marques - one has Citroen and the other has Renault and Skoda. Both also hold Daihatsu
Last edited by: mikeyb on Thu 14 Apr 11 at 17:32
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Hope they expand the range to include some cleaner engines - people will need an incentive to buy this and an inefficient, dirty engine is not it
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Its not even that special, thats the problem - why would anyone willingly buy an MG instead of a Focus? Obviously someone will at some point, but in any great numbers?
If they could sell that MG at say £12k THEN it will get attention and if they can get some eco diesel version out quickly then again they stand a chance, but even then its such a tight sector with so many quality, talented rivals, I think they stand very little hope frankly.
They need to stand out and they dont, MGs were sold off cheap before the company went under and now those post-BMW examples are rusting like its going outta fashion - thats what I remember about MGs. If BMW couldnt make it work and lord knows they tried, then I dont see anyone else can without radical thinking.
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If BMW couldnt make it work and lord
>> knows they tried
Did they? What new models, which had not already been designed/launched, did they launch whilst they owned MG Rover? And I don't mean badge engineering, I mean real, 100% new products?
None, I reckon.
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Rover 75, it even had BMW parts on it, some minor fixingings actually have BMW stamped on them, it was most amusing to us when we looked around a pre-production example Rover bigwigs brought over.
BMW took over Rover in 1994, 5 years before the R75 launch in 1999, so id say they had their hand in that.
Perhaps brush up on your history...
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Thanks for the usual patronising response.
One model, then. Brilliant. And it took them 5 years.
The Chinese have come up with a brand new model in a similar time and more are on the way. Kudos to them, yah boo sucks to BMW.
I still quite fancy an MG ZT-T though.
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Thats ok, its a service I provide ;-)
It takes a fair few years to properly develop a good car and the 75 WAS a good car, I still hanker after one to this day. I remember the first time I drove one in 1998, it was a turquoise green one with tan cloth interior - it felt so very relaxing and really put the 800 out to pasture. The Tourer in diesel with the autobox, the Con SE, perhaps in the maroon metallic they did. I can dream...
If in 5 years time MG is thriving, good on the chinese, but I dont see it happening, look how many TFs they are selling - Morgan sell more cars than that.
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That's not a very even comparison.
They're producing the TF as a starter for 10, I can't imagine their business plan mimics Morgans and they're going to be making them in 2060.
They're wanting to rebuild a mass market, mass prodcution munfacturer, and I think they will.
No denying the 75/MG ZT was an excellent car, but a company like BMW should have made so much more of MG Rover.
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BMW is a successful company, they make money and they know how to make it, so Im sure if they could forsee a business model that would have given them a return on their investment, they would have persued it.
I share your hopes for the company chap, I just dont share your optimism, but id happily be proven wrong.
If I were them id bring back the 75 and sell it as a bargin saloon, all the hard work is done and old hat as it was, it wasnt untalented, so as a cheap alternative to a Mondeo, it would make sense to many people and cheap to bring back.
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>> BMW is a successful company, they make money and they know how to make it,
>> so Im sure if they could forsee a business model that would have given them
>> a return on their investment, they would have persued it.
Why did they buy it in the first place then? They must have forseen a business model, but then they failed to execute it.
Unless the idea all along was just to nick Mini.
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>>Why did they buy it in the first place then?<<
Landrover and Mini brands. Flogged one, kept the other and made it work. Rover was just the excess which they gave away at the end. Its just business. And Zero is spot on too.
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So your assertion "God knows they tried" was incorrect, which is what I was getting at.
Thanks.
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Not at all, Rover was the 'project' of the bunch. They stuck some money in, produced a great car and it still didnt work out. Thats why the cut and ran as any sensible business would do.
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Sorry, I simply don't follow this reasoning. Land Rover and Mini were also very much "Projects". They were not the finished product when BMW took over.
Anyway, time to agree to disagree once again, I think.
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>> No denying the 75/MG ZT was an excellent car, but a company like BMW should
>> have made so much more of MG Rover.
It was a complete basket case, plant, facilities, management, workers, unions, dealer network, everything. Nearly brought down BMW, they got out just before it did. Its easier to start a new one than rescue that lot.
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>> and the 75 WAS a good car
So it was you inflating the 75's results in the auto express tests? :-)
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This combination of price, fuel consumption and Co2 emissions doesn't look very attractive, to a cash paying private buyer anyway!
MG 6 1.8T TSE
Price: £18,995; Top speed: 120mph (limited); 0-60mph: 8.4sec; Economy: 35.6mpg; Co2: 184g/km
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Thu 14 Apr 11 at 17:57
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>> This combination of price, fuel consumption and Co2 emissions doesn't look very attractive, to a
>> cash paying private buyer anyway!
>>
>> MG 6 1.8T TSE
>> Price: £18,995; Top speed: 120mph (limited); 0-60mph: 8.4sec; Economy: 35.6mpg; Co2: 184g/km
Certainly keeps it out of the company car market as well.
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>> MG 6 1.8T TSE
>> Price: £18,995; Top speed: 120mph (limited); 0-60mph: 8.4sec; Economy: 35.6mpg; Co2: 184g/km
>>
Not sure if this is a fair comparison, but :-
New Focus 1.6T Titanium X Ecobost 5 door
Top Speed 130
0-60 8.6sec
Economy 47.1mpg
Co2 139g/km
Broker price £18,526
Not a Ford fan, but I think I would have to assume that the focus is likely to be the better prospect
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The Focus is a discounted price, my guess is that these MGs will be sold via the likes of Motorpoint with a very big discount :).
It would need to as their engines just aren't efficient compared to Europes finest.
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talking new dealer supplied cars here though - not pre registered / import stuff from a car supermarket.
to be fair mg may discount, but they would need to discount by a lot to make this a better prospect than the focus
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I agree, these days when running costs are so crucial in this sector unless it has most efficient engines it just won't sell. Their best hope is heavy discounting in order to try get interest from the private sector.
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Just looked at the leasing cost - cheapest I can see the enty level model is £355 plus VAT on a 3+35 so total cost over 3 years would be £16,188 for a £15,495 car.
Looks to me as though the leasing companies are assuming a zero value at 3 years / 30K
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>> Looks to me as though the leasing companies are assuming a zero value at 3
>> years / 30K
Cool. I look forward to buying on in three years for zero pounds and no pence.
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>> Not a Ford fan, but I think I would have to assume that the focus
>> is likely to be the better prospect
>>
Well I DO like Fords, but even putting that bias to one side, I think that you are spot on.
Plus, I assume that the Titanium X model will have more equipment than the MG to make it even more preferable a choice.
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I don't care if MG succeeds or fails - it's about as far from MG as it is possible to be and nothing but another blind stab at brand marketing by the sort of people who discredited Rover. What does intrigue me is how a car that doesn't have six doors, six wheels or six cylinders can be called the MG 6.
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>>What does intrigue me is how a car that doesn't have six doors, six wheels or six cylinders can be called the MG 6.<<
Praps it's the 6th attempt at trying to resuscitate MG Rover :-D
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>> The Chinese have come up with a brand new model in a similar time and more are on the
>> way. Kudos to them, yah boo sucks to BMW.
I thought the Rover 75 chassis was being used (or a derivative) in all of the new MGs. So not an entirely new car.
You can tell BMW always intended for the 75 to come as a rear wheel drive car as well as front wheel drive. The car was designed that way from the beginning.
At the moment, there is minimal assembly being done at the MG site in the Midlands. They are basically unboxing cars and sticking a few bits on so they can claim they were assembled here. There's not enough people working over here to build the cars.
I wish them luck though. The 75 was a good car and BMW couldn't let it be as good as it should because all of the cars competed with BMW products. They must have seen that before they bought them.
My theory is they bought them for the Mini and Land Rover. And after learning from the latter in order to make the X5 they then sold it. How much did the Rover ownership actually cost BMW I wonder? Bearing in mind how much they are still making out of the Mini.
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>> How much
>> did the Rover ownership actually cost BMW I wonder? Bearing in mind how much they
>> are still making out of the Mini.
>>
According to "Driven" by David Kiley, pages 228-229, Rover ownership cost BMW about 7 billion USD.
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I think BMW "had a go" with Rover, but the problem was that the brands were a little to close in positioning in the market so they had a very difficult job.
The 75 was a risk as it was a fair competitor to the 3 series, so BMW made it front wheel drive. IIRC when MG made the rear wheel drive model it took quite a bit of re-engineering.
BMW got what they wanted out of it - the land rover experience to build the X models, and the Mini brand. I dont know what it cost them in the end, but they must have made out of Mini, and the sale of land rover to ford.
I guess with hindsight they would have been better off with a more sub brand more distanced from there own, in the way that VW have made a good go of Skoda
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Thats alot of Minis, even at the silly prices they ask for them.
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Some interesting stuff on the aronline site
BMW paid £800m for the group - they sold Landrover alone for £1.8 bilion
The majority of plant investment was made in Cowley - BMW retained this plant
BWM invested in a new engine facility - Hamms Hall - Retained by BMW
The develoment work on the 25 and 45 replacement was retained by BMW
When BMW was sold to Phoenix they retained the longbridge engine and transmission facility and swindon pressings so Rover was forced to buy engines / panels from BMW. They later sold these to Phoenix at market value
Interesting theorys over there that it was always BMW's plan to run rover as a competitor down, strip anything of any value and use it as a tax loss to fund development of BMW models
Reading that I suspect that BMW didnt really lose much overall, and long term have gained out of the deal
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I would have have thought that BMW would have removed a lot of Land Rovers liabilities to be able to sell it to Ford for that price though.
I agree though and always thought it was a bad move but then British Aerospace didn't have that much success with Rover either.
It was doomed from the 1970's onwards, the Ronda products helped massively but they were overpriced for what was a changing market.
The MG should be a very successful car in emerging markets and it is designed in the UK so it is an important achievement the problem is in the UK there is far too much competition.
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>> I agree though and always thought it was a bad move but then British Aerospace
>> didn't have that much success with Rover either.
>>
BAE bought it for 150 mil as a favour to Thatcher in exchange for her rubber stamping some very lucrative defence deals. It aslo came with some very generous sweetners that, IIRC were investigated due to there generosity.
When they offloaded it it was knocking out 450,000 cars a year and making about 100 million a year profit. They sold for 800 million.
Sounds to me like it did OK iunder their ownership, however BAE had no interest in investing and claimed it was taking 2 billion in cash to keep it ticking over
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When I worked for BAe in the late 80s we were all encouraged to take the highest spec Rover that we could, as a company car, so that there was a pool of decent cars to dump into the market when we changed them. I can't remember what I paid for mine or how often it was changed but there were a lot of pretty good cars in the staff car park!
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In the late 80's, I worked at Cowley.
There was a generous staff discount on all the cars except the.......
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>> In the late 80's, I worked at Cowley.
>>
>> There was a generous staff discount on all the cars except the.......
I grew up in Oxford and for years I thought BL/Rover cars were that popular all over the country. :-)
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>> >> In the late 80's, I worked at Cowley.
>> >>
>> >> There was a generous staff discount on all the cars except the.......
>>
>> I grew up in Oxford and for years I thought BL/Rover cars were that popular
>> all over the country. :-)
>>
I enjoyed my time at the plant. Shortly after the BAE take over, we were ushered into a presentation where senior staff from BAE told us that their money would be earning more in the bank!
Like I imagine most ex Austin Rover apprentices, I still have and use the toolbox we all made during the sheetmetal part of the apprentice training. The toolboxes all went through the paint line - mine is a shade of metallic grey that was common on Montegos of the time.
The really dreary part of the work was the block release down at Oxpens. The staff there really knew how to kill engineering as a subject!
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>> Like I imagine most ex Austin Rover apprentices, I still have and use the toolbox
>> we all made during the sheetmetal part of the apprentice training. The toolboxes all went
>> through the paint line - mine is a shade of metallic grey that was common
>> on Montegos of the time.
My uncle spent his entire working life there as an electrician. He took early retirement a couple of years after the BMW takeover, when of course a lot of the factory was demolished and sold off for redevelopment, and there was a significant reduction in the workforce.
The crowds of cyclists on the cycle path along the bypass in the mornings and evenings going to and from work is a vivid childhood memory, as was a school trip in 1987 where we saw the entire production line for the Rover 800 (except the paint shop) and followed the whole thing from the body panels being pressed, to a completed car being driven off the end of the line. It was amazing to see. We were also treated to a number of corporate and product presentations, and given some goodies to take away.
The company were very active with local schools and would often organise factory tours, visits, presentations, and at upper schools, apprenticeships and work experience placements.
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Perky - I work for Airbus and started before Rover was sold to BMW. It was the same deal there. I remember my manager would often get a call to return his car an pick up a new one as they had a buyer for his few month old model. He often had the faster sportier models.
As a pleb level employee we could lease Rovers at well below the market rate, or buy with a generous discount.
Get a discount on fiat now!
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You could buy a Rover at cost plus charge for pre-delivery insp where I worked - made them substantially cheaper than list and many many staff bought new Rovers funny enough.
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Dealer I got mine through told me that on staff sales they got a handling fee of about 100 quid to pdi it and stick some fuel in it.
Our discount changed each month depending on what was in stock, but I think I got 25% from memory
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>>except the.......
Rover 213
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">>What does intrigue me is how a car that doesn't have six doors, six wheels or six cylinders can be called the MG 6.<<
Must be using the old French system as in 2CV, Renault 4, Renault 6............
So it's somewhere between the Renault 4 and Renault 8 in power??
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Just seen this advert on ITV1: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS6A67UXpaM
Not clear enough about the new car IMO.
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I hope it is of better quality than the Chinese cars and pickups of various makes that I saw recently.
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Very lukewarm (2 star) review in Auto Express.
Praised the chassis very highly, but said the engine is coarse, noisy and thirsty, the interior quality so-so and the ergonomics poor. Reckoned it wasn't cheap enough to compensate for its shortcomings.
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>> Cityrover anyone?
TG Magazine couldn't spell that in their back-pages listing. I think it was dictated over the phone by Sean Connery :)
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 17 May 11 at 11:12
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MG - New MG 6 - Focusless
