I know this might sound like a bit of a daft question and I apologise in advance for any unintended naïveté, but I'd like some advice please.
I'm going to a funeral tomorrow. Now it's an older chap who I used to be commercially close to. It'll be a big do with lots of movers and shakers from my industry.
Now, the end of the fashion business I work in has a very casual but premium dress code. ( expensive jeans if you like ) Even the older people tend to dress like wannabe rock legends rather than more conventionally.
However, this is a funeral, in a very traditional village church.
Should I wear a suit? I know I've got one somewhere !
What does the panel advise?
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Whistle and a tie, but not a black one.
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Definitely not a tie like wot that channel 4 newsreader bloke often wears!
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A sober suit, black shoes with plain socks, a plainish shirt and a black tie, is de rigeur in that level of society.
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 10 May 12 at 22:24
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Whistle Humph and a half decent pair of shoes. Wash the Merc.
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>Wash the Merc
Humph's Merc is the lead car ;-)
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Smart suit and, absent a family request to the contrary, a dark but not necessarily plain black tie.
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Black ties are pretty naff outside the immediate family.
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Down here they're virtually mandatory; in fact I went out and bought one a while ago, having attended the funeral of one of our oldest customers. I'd gone in a good pair of black jeans, no longer possessing a pair of slacks, and a black long-sleeved shirt sans tie. I was not disapproved of by any means but I did feel a bit out of place; even the teenage village lads had a plain white shirt and black tie.
I find the Welsh attitude to funerals quite refreshing; by and large they're dignified affairs but far from dour. It's one part of the UK where you're still pretty much guaranteed a good send-off.
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And superb singing, I went to one where they had a goodly proportion of the Fron Choir - spine tingling...
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True RP; and there's nothing like an ex-chorister Sais in the congregation to raise the bar a bit, they don't like being outdone in the singing department! :-)
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Suit and black tie, dress for the occasion not for work.
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As Roger, but make no distinction for level of society.
You are paying your respects to someone who's passed on, and helping support their bereft family in their darkest hour, include the black tie.
Probably won't be cold enough for a black overcoat, but i tend to take one and a brolly in case one of the ladies gets cold or has understandably forgotten her own.
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I have a very natty grey overcoat with a discrete highlight across the hems...only worn once :-(
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>> only worn once :-(
>>
thats understandable..;)
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Is the deceased a Scot too, if so would the kilt be a mark of respect?
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Thanks chaps. Confirms my thoughts. Just dug out a black feint pinstripe suit, white shirt, black brogues, dark woollen overcoat, just in case, and a dark burgundy tie. I do have a black tie. I'll think on that.
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Better try on the suit in case it's er..shrunk
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>white shirt, black brogues,
Matching white socks?
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You what Kevin, I only own black socks. All the same manufacturer and design. Never have to pair 'em y'see ! Well, she doesn't have to I mean anyway...
:-)
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I bought a job-lot from e-bay for a quid or something. Next black socks - ideal workwear and easily sorted at washing time !
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>You what Kevin, I only own black socks.
You wear black socks with deck shoes and trainers?
Aw heck - you're one of those who doesn't wear socks with deck shoes or trainers aren't you?
Last edited by: Kevin on Thu 10 May 12 at 23:34
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What would the dead guy have wanted you to wear?
Wear that.
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>> What would the dead guy have wanted you to wear?
>> Wear that.
Ask the dead guy if he disapproves of what you're wearing.
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>> Aw heck - you're one of those who doesn't wear socks with deck shoes or
>> trainers aren't you?
>>
Socks with deck shoes is in the same league as socks with sandals. :-)
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As an American said to me once "Only a Limey would do that" Fair enough.
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Oh! and polish the edge of the soles of the shoes too. Nothing worse than dirty shoes.
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>> Oh! and polish the edge of the soles of the shoes too. Nothing worse than dirty shoes.
>>
And make sure to wear a DECENT pair - nothing worse than cheap shoes at a funeral.
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>> Oh! and polish the edge of the soles of the shoes too. Nothing worse than
>> dirty shoes.
>>
If the shoes have leather soles, then polish the parts of the soles which don't touch the ground. That's the mark of a true gentleman.
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Black / dark suit, black tie, black socks, black (polished) shoes, white shirt.
And, as for not wearing a tie...
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Polish the instep of your shoes too - why not?
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At no point in the proceedings should you clap.
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Oh! L'es. I nearly wet myself..............
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You could shout "yay" or "amen, brothers and sisters"!
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There's always a bit of a disparity between what the deceased would have wanted, and what the other mourners would now think is seemly.
"He would have wanted it like that" doesn't cut much ice if you are the only one who knows that.
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>> Oh! L'es. I nearly wet myself..............
>>
I've not experienced it myself, but apparently it does happen nowadays.
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Well, suit on, tie on, shoes like mirrors. Though I had quite forgotten how unpleasant wearing a tie is, at least the suit still fits and thankfully it doesn't have flared trousers !
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>> Though I had quite forgotten how unpleasant wearing a tie is
But is it a slim jim which migh show you up as a cheap skate?
>>, at least the suit still fits and thankfully it doesn't have flared trousers !
>>
Thats the expensive bit ticked off
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At least ye haven't got to don a kilt for the 'occasion'.
:}
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You could always take a back-up tie, in case black is too funereal.
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Fawlty Towers:
Basil Fawlty: Tie's a bit bright, isn't it, Major?
Major Gowen: What?
Basil Fawlty: For a memorial service?
Major Gowen: Why... I didn't like the chap.
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>> Oh! L'es. I nearly wet myself...
I've not experienced it myself, but apparently it does happen nowadays.
You are referring to applause at funerals, l'Es, aren't you?
};---)
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>>"He would have wanted it like that"
At the risk of creating a paradox, I've instructed SWMBO that when I kick the bucket, that phrase and its type are absolutely forbidden.
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Detailed analysis of the bucket's resonant frequencies (assuming only a galvanized one will do) and of its parabolic trajectory, on the other hand...
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Someone will pipe up at the funeral "where's Number Cruncher went you want him?"
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The last thing an Ageing Fashonista should do is reach into a wardrobe and pull out an ill fitting, out of fashion suit, specially when one one is not used to wearing one.
Oh! I see he has left.
I assume he is off to Vidal Sassoons funeral.
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>> I assume he is off to Vidal Sassoons funeral.
>>
That was due to be broadcast live on the BBC.
But now its only the highlights.
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>> >> I assume he is off to Vidal Sassoons funeral.
>> >>
>>
>> That was due to be broadcast live on the BBC.
>> But now its only the highlights.
And it was cut short.
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Probably too late now, but I hope you turned your phone off ?
I heard at least three at the FIL's funeral last week - possibly related to the fact that mnay of his contemporaries, like him, were pretty deaf - goes with the territory
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Wow, that reminded me of a Not The Nine O'Clock News sketch from many many years back. Needs sound.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7L3iSZsNpY
PS Ain't YouTube great?
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 11 May 12 at 18:46
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Well, 10/10 for the advice chaps. Everyone in suits. Black ties mainly only for family. I wore my dark burgundy one. Just right.
Big do, long service. Couple of hundred or more attended at a guess. Enjoyed it in a way if that doesn't sound strange. He was a great guy, real character, and had some really interesting and diverse friends and associates. Saw some people I've not met in decades. Some of them looked quite old, but then I suppose they thought the same about me...
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>> I wore my dark burgundy one. Just right.
Good choice, it hides the sauce stains from the Maccy D really well.
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You know Zero, sometimes you could quite easily be mistaken for a northerner...
:-)
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No chance, There is Mayo on my chips.
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Haaaaa "Chips" he's from north of Watford after all !
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I am absolutely not a food location snob. There are many lay-by caravan based bacon butty vendors I regularly patronise.
McDonalds though, has pretty much nothing I want to eat. Only reason to visit them I can ever find is if they have the only convenient loo when travelling. For some reason they tend to be quite a lot cleaner, in that department at least, than motorway services.
Sainsburys are the best though. Always spotless.
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My experience too - in fairness a mug of coffee at a MickyD is worth drinking for the free WiFi.
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The coffee at McD's used to be a foul liquid served at volcanic temperatures designed to sterilise anything it came into contact with.
Now however, McDs coffee is very drinkable. Reasonable coffee, clean bogs and free wifi is fine by me.
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McFlurry may also be the cheapest ice cream around?
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McFly - a contaminated burger?
Going back to funerals - as an organist I play for plenty of funerals / memorial services, and the best of them are when the emphasis in the tributes and music is thanksgiving for a good life. That is of couyrse easier when the deceased reached a grand old age.
Last week in my church at Sonning there was a funeral for a formidable but much-loved lady who died in her 80s. The family had the good sense to have a cremation first so there was no actual body at the church service. All very thankful - almost jolly - and the inspired choice of The Church's One Foundation as one of the hymns raised the roof.
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McDonalds hash browns are seriously excellent!
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>>hash browns are seriously excellent ...
It's your funeral, as they say...
:-)
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>> >>hash browns are seriously excellent ...
>>
>> It's your funeral, as they say...
>>
>> :-)
>>
At least your insides would never go rusty. :-)
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>> thanksgiving for a good life. That is of course easier when the deceased
>> reached a grand old age.
>>
>>
And if he has had a good life, and if there is anyone left to remember it.
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My dear, much younger, sister died a couple of months ago and the dress code given for the funeral was 'respectful'. I pondered for a long while on that one. At the event, every other male present wore a black tie but I'm glad I dug out my old (pale blue with a Wyvern motif) Somerset County Cricket Club 'country member' tie, in memory of many happy days together.
I thought I was pretty well turned out in my dark suit and said to one of my brothers 'not bad eh? I went into the inside pocket just now and found an invitation card from 1998. Must be the last time I wore it!'
My brother, a captain of industry, said 'that sounds about right - you are the only one here wearing trousers with turn-ups'. She would have laughed...
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I keep a black tie in the office for funeral jobs.
We only go if invited and generally stand at the back.
I don't think the relatives expect full funeral attire, but the tie shows you recognise the job is a little different from all the others that day.
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Fair enough Iffy, I do understand and respect what you're saying but, I suppose, it also depends on the regular daily attire of the group. My question arose because most of my friends, associates and colleagues who were attending don't normally, if ever, wear what some might call business wear, despite more or less everyone there being very much in business ironically enough ! The very fact that everyone turned up suited and booted was a mark of respect in itself. I guess if one's normal workwear is a suit and tie, the black tie further indicates and signals a difference.
Anyway, it all went as well as these things can. Very moving at times. He was a good guy.
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Having attended an increasing number of funerals over the last few years, I noticed a decline in the number of black ties on display, this included some heavy duty chapel ones. I've kept a couple of ties for funerals - one is a nice goldie check one with opposing black squares - the other is a monochrome one, black and grey, both are subtle enough. I've moved on from ties in general....had an argument with a bow tie two weeks ago and ended up in goldie...
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Last funeral we went to was one of the girls Diana looked after.I was wearing a suit and Diana looks always smart.
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I try to conform with Debrett's thinkings on funeral etiquette. tinyurl.com/box9mjh
Miss Debrett's opening sentence sums it up for me. "There can be few events as fraught as a funeral, and few places where faux-pas are likely to be as disastrous."
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 12 May 12 at 16:24
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It is to my great shame and embarrassment that I have never yet managed to master the art of tying a bow tie properly. I can get one to look almost right but it always ends up lopsided enough to make me look as if I tied it while drunk. As for a pre-tied clip on thing, well, you just can't can you?
Thankfully, for the occasions which demand it, I can normally dig out highland dress.
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>>As for a pre-tied clip on thing, well, you just can't can you?
I certainly can. If life is too short to stuff a mushroom, it definitely isn't long enough to mess about learning to tie a bow for about two occasions a year.
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>> I can normally dig out highland dress.
A brown blanket (none ae that tartan pish), rusty claymore and sheepskin pampooties Humph?
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Something like that AC, something like that...
:-)
I know what you're saying Manatee, but I just think I'd like to know that I could. Like double de-clutching really. Even if you never do it, it's satisfying to know that you can. I feel ever so slightly unfulfilled.
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>> something like that...
I can't help worrying about the pampooties Humph. But you have to admit those heavy Lobb double-welted brown brogues with generations of Kiwi and batman's saliva on them would look a bit out of place with the brown blanket and (sorry, I forgot) rawhide knickers...
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One can wear, indeed one has worn, a kilt with a T shirt and heavy boots or indeed even ski boots. Quite liberating actually, provided the midges are out of season. Rawhide is to be avoided, though chamois could hold a certain appeal I suppose if the wind was in the north.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sat 12 May 12 at 18:46
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...and up the Corrieyairack Pass
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>> ...and up the Corrieyairack Pass
Quite the most feared combination Rob.
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>> I know what you're saying Manatee, but I just think I'd like to know that
>> I could. Like double de-clutching really. Even if you never do it, it's satisfying to
>> know that you can. I feel ever so slightly unfulfilled.
That's it then, the gauntlet is accepted. It's on the list, after getting a job and buying a new suit (not necessarily in that order).
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I am still trying to tie a decent bow tie.
" Its easy - same knot as your shoe laces !!!"
Both my offspring threatened me with " dis-invited" to formal dinners if I showd up with a clip on.
I canna escape it with highland dress.
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>>Both my offspring threatened me with " dis-invited" to formal dinners if I showed up with a clip on.
Oh dear. I would take that very amiss. Not that mine invite me to many formal dinners. Or any dinners.
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>> >>Both my offspring threatened me with " dis-invited" to formal dinners if I showed up with a clip on.
>>
>> Oh dear. I would take that very amiss. Not that mine invite me to many formal dinners. Or any dinners.
>>
As son was vice president of the organisation and daughter is now president of another same type of organisation we were guests of honour.
I did get lots of tie coaching from my son.
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...threatened me with " dis-invited" to formal dinners...
That's a bonus, not a sanction.
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Highland dress looks smart Hump never had the privilege to wear one..:)
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Never mind Dutchie, you are at least able to wear a milkmaid's outfit with clogs...
:-)
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>> Highland dress looks smart
You must mean the Balmoral garb invented in the late 19th century and subsequently passed on to the prosperous middle classes. Not the real thing (see above for an unflattering description).
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I did go to a party, not a grand one but self-respecting, where some of the guests were wearing dinner jackets a year or so back. I haven't worn one for donkeys' years and it would take a lot to make me hire one now. My father left two which more or less fitted me but the moths got them in London alas.
Still got some of the ties though and reckon I could still do an authentically slightly dishevelled knot if pushed. No one should ever wear a clippie except as a joke.
Anyone seen a cummerbund recently? My old man had one of those too but didn't wear it in England. An elegant garment that could serve as a corset for the slightly beer-bellied, not that my quite abstemious dad had one of those.
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Saw them when I dabbled with the Masons.....saw all kinds there - a hole in asock was as welcome as the proverbial....
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When I was very young someone once approached me and invited me to try joining some masonic sort of organization, perhaps a stepping stone to the real thing. I never found out because I could tell more or less instantly that it was something I would loathe greatly from the start, and that might well loathe me even more. It seemed completely pointless from my point of view.
That said, I do know someone, a French aristocrat, who swears by the Freemasons and says they have done him nothing but good. You have to be in the right lodge, he says. But to me it looks like a bad dream or a novel by Kafka.
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My experience as well AC. Like the Hotel California you can check out but never leave ! Not for me too many old foggies and too much learning. It was to be a sort of retirement hobby.
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I was invited by a colleague I got on with to present myself to the lodge when I worked in a bank (not "in banking", I was a cashier at the time).
It was clearly an honour and when it was explained why, I knew that a banker's life was not for me.
It was a fairly brave move for a young chap from a working class family, and with no wool on his back, to chuck it in in those days - it looked like a secure, if steady, job in the warm and dry with a good pension, and every prospect of running a little branch eventually. Of course, that didn't last, though I wasn't to know it at the time.
I actually worked for a Captain Mainwaring type of manager in the early to mid 70s. I'm sure he wore a clip-at-the-back bow tie to the annual dinners - all this sniffiness about proper bow ties seems to be a recent thing, at least among the hoi polloi.
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>> I'm sure he wore a clip-at-the-back bow tie to the annual dinners - all
>> this sniffiness about proper bow ties seems to be a recent thing, at least among
>> the hoi polloi.
Nonsense.
clip-ons are discouraged, as they may fall in the soup.
on a 'normal' collar, elastic-and-clip is permitted.
In a high collar, the one-piece is de rigeur.
I turn up with a Bolo Tie.
Sort the bones out of that!
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I take 'clip-ons' to refer to the fasten at the back variety. I've never seen a literal clip on. Sheltered life.
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>> I take 'clip-ons' to refer to the fasten at the back variety. I've never seen
>> a literal clip on. Sheltered life.
>>
Clip ons, like clip-on ear-rings, have a sprung clip built into the faux knot, which attaches the tie to the top of the button-line.
There's a reason for this - prison officers and rozzers wear clip-on ties, and don't want to be on a leash should some scumbag grab said neckpiece.
In fact: * boom boom!* If you want to know the tie, ask a policeman...
Last edited by: Ian (Cape Town) on Sat 12 May 12 at 18:36
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Oddly enough I'll be in evening dress (complete with cummerbund, although bummercund sounds better) this evening - Jubilee concert in church. The vicar will be in DJ so as organist and co-compere I'll join him - a bit smarter than my rather elderly cassock.
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A now-retired photographer at our place always wore a bow tie for work.
He did so because an ordinary tie could get in the way of the camera, particularly if it was windy.
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Photo !
Yes please. Remember to show the bummercund.
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My father disliked clippy ties and he was born before WW1 ! Mind you, he also disapproved of any man who could clearly afford, but chose not to wear, decent shoes. I'm with him on both counts.
:-)
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The only cheap and nasty pair of shoes (a pair of beige suede slip ons from Amazon) I have ever owned came to a sticky end - they were worth every penny, leaked like sives and were slippery and bloomin' uncomfortable - They fell out of a pannier in the M40 in 2010. No loss. Back to proper branded stuff. I have a pair of Merrell items now - cost ten times as much (but still not expensive) everything they do are light years ahead of the £5.00 specials....
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We have a biennial village late summer ball for which 'formal' dress is required. Turned up the first couple of times in a lounge suit. A Gordon Brown type protest that SWMBO refused to countenance further. So I now have a dinner suit I've worn twice. Bow tie is an absolute pain to deal with and the thing comes off as soon as I've eaten and get dragged to the dance floor.
Cummerbunds seem to be in fashion atm. Plenty worn at least year's ball and about bout half the males at The Lad's prom were wearing them.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 23 May 12 at 21:20
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I've had the same dinner suit all my adult life. It has shrunk a little bit over the years but I can still use it if I avoid the pud...
:-)
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>> It is to my great shame and embarrassment that I have never yet managed to
>> master the art of tying a bow tie properly. I can get one to look
>> almost right but it always ends up lopsided enough to make me look as if
>> I tied it while drunk.
Thats perfect!, it has to be slightly crooked to show that a: its real, and b: you tied it yourself - not your wife. It should only last till the sweet has been served anyway, as it should be untied and left to dangle nonchalantly .
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There would be a stony silence at a Lodge do Zero - a friend of mine removed his jacket for a meal - never lived it down
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Clearly the Lodge would never accept James Bond then, probably why I never accepted the invitation. Removing the jacket is a real faux pas tho it has to be said.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 12 May 12 at 18:58
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Pal of mine was an army officer. Occasionally they would have regimental dinners to which he could invite a civilian guest. Major protocol issues though like not peeing before the Queen and stuff. Quite good grub, wine and guest speakers usually though.
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I know how to pass the port. Wen t to several Honourable Artillery Company dinners.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 12 May 12 at 18:59
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I got outrageously drunk on port once. I think it took me several months to recover.
I used to go to Portugal ( Oporto ) on business quite regularly and they drink the stuff like wine. Well, one night...
As an aside, the dinner, I can see it now, was a whole, casseroled baby goat in a pot. Staring at me...
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I can tie a bow tie, after a fashion; those of you who may buy ones that can be tied and are adjustable for length may care to know that the correct length to set is collar size x 2 plus 2 inches
I can only tie one on my self, with or without a mirror. When I worked in warm sandy place 30 years ago the local military had adopted a version of mess dress which involved a bow tie, of course. None of the locals knew how to tie them and I had a stream of visitors coming to my room for help. Regrettably I could only tie them while standing behind the subject and this led to some sideways looks and harsh banter from my colleagues!
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Just been up to my wardrobe on another matter - my tie collection is getting a little dog-eared - The unfunny Homer Simpson one may be the next to go..
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>> Just been up to my wardrobe on another matter - my tie collection is getting
>> a little dog-eared - The unfunny Homer Simpson one may be the next to go..
Oh Lord, the Novelty Tie!, is there anything so crass and lacking in class! Of course you need novelty cuff links to go with it. Its ok for dinner at Peterborough dog track, but anywhere else? perlease.
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It was a gift - albeit an ill-judged one....
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I suppose the whole point of ties then is to conform.
I've a Wallace & Gromit one that I like. I think I'll wear it to the pension trustee board next week!
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You're probably right, I had a piggy one as well, which I did actually wear on particular occasions...
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>> I suppose the whole point of ties then is to conform.
>>
No, to cover up the buttons.
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Thats it next time tie required its the Dennis the Menace jobbie.
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You lot are beyond flipping redemption aren't you? Why not team the oh so humerous ties with some "Mr Men" socks for full effect? Sheesh...I give up ! My whole life I've spent trying to... Oh never mind, carry on...Gonna take the dog out now...
;-)
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I avoided the red=braces and man bag thing.....I have a pair of red braces now, but they are bike kit !
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Has the dog got a novelty collar?
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No a nice Rogz one in tasteful black !
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I got fed up with people patting FiFi on the head saying "what's his name, so she has a pink with hearts lead and collar combo.
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>> I suppose the whole point of ties then is to conform.
>No, to cover up the buttons.
It's a primitive strangulation device designed to restrict blood-flow to the brain.
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>>None of the locals knew
>> how to tie them and I had a stream of visitors coming to my room
>> for help.
The juniors wear ties at school. Which I have to tie, despite my best efforts to teach them how.
Praise indeed - last school photo day all the kids in my daughter's class used her tie as it was the only one in the class which looked 'nice'!
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You guys move in different circles. Not worn a tie since leaving school and can honestly say I've never even seen a bow tie in real life.
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I made decision tonight, no more ties for me.
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Bloke goes into a fancy dress shop in Birmingham and asks if they've got any '70s gear. Shopkeeper says, "how about a kipper tie?"
Bloke says, "oh perfect thanks, milk and two sugars please..."
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sat 12 May 12 at 23:40
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I'd make an exception and wear a tie for that joke's funeral !
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>> I'd make an exception and wear a tie for that joke's funeral !
Too late, it died a silent and stony death years ago.
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No ties here on my island either. Although they're something I can't just chuck away. Must have about 30. A couple of comic ones, one with vintage cars on, my vasectomy tie and one with a little pink pig over the letters MCP. Pride of place is my ' bent H ' tie. In memory of the old H division of the Manchester City Police, disbanded due to some naughty officers taking bribes for various road traffic matters.
An ex-bobby pal and I had a spate of wearing outrageous bow ties to our social functions.
Mostly home made out of various tweeds from charity shop clothes. I do have comedy braces with Tom & Jerry on but like the Pug, they're for me biking pants.
SWM and I went to a few masonic dos as guests of the above, who was a keen member.
It wasn't for us though, especially after the incident of Ladies night, where a Brylcremed lounge lizard singer came round the tables singing ' Only a rose ' and giving the girls a red rose each. My breakdown into a fit of giggles put a stop to any hopes I had of acceptance !
Ted
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How do you do your tie? I tie a Double Windsor knot. It has the advantage of being symmetrical and more formal. tinyurl.com/4ylu7m
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sun 13 May 12 at 07:24
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>> How do you do your tie? I tie a Double Windsor knot. It has the
>> advantage of being symmetrical and more formal. tinyurl.com/4ylu7m
>>
A Double Windsor makes the knot too large and looks slightly vulgar - like something out of the Sweeney!
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>> A Double Windsor makes the knot too large and looks slightly vulgar - like something
>> out of the Sweeney!
>>
What about a Half Windsor as demonstrated by Sexy Cindy? tinyurl.com/c5rs7sr
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I don't wear ties much these days, but I think a plain, common or garden, knot is perfectly adequate and not vulgar in the slightest.
I am not a fan of any variation of the windsor knot.
By the way - how many of you, when the dress code requires it, can tie either a single (boiled shirt wear) or double (soft shirt wear) bow tie?
How many commit the ultimate dress solecism of wearing a pre-tied or clip on bow tie?
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May I respectfully refer the honourable member to the section of the thread starting at 16.27 on Saturday 12th...
:-)
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Serious question - Duncan
